EP43-UD3L, E6750 - Help me OC above 400FSB

[orion2001]

Hey Everyone,

First time OCer here and I would greatly appreciate any help/advice that you folks could provide me. I recently managed to get my hands on a Core2Duo processor that someone was getting rid of. So I decided to build myself a cheap new rig with it. Let me start off by detailing my system specs:

• Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 Conroe 2.66GHz 4M shared L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor

• Stock Intel CPU Heatsink with Arctic Silver 5 thermal paste (I know, I know, I really should get a new heatsink)

• GIGABYTE GA-EP43-UD3L LGA 775 Intel P43 ATX Intel Motherboard

• G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit (Newegg.com - G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-6400CL5D-4GBPQ - Desktop Memory)

• Rosewill RP600V2-S-SL-S 600W ATX12V v2.01 SLI Certified CrossFire Ready Power Supply

• Geforce 6800 Graphic Card

• Windows Vista Business X64 and Windows XP Professional 32-bit Dual boot setup (Vista is primary OS of choice)

I am aware that the memory, motherboard and heatsink are "budget" components, so I shouldn't expect too much in the OC department. However, I'd like to find out if I am at the limit of my Mobo/Memory combo or if I can do better.

As of now, I have managed to get my FSB (CPU Frequency) to 400MHz, thus pushing my processor to 8x400 = 3.2GHz. My RAM is set to 1:1 (2.00B multiplier, ie, the 333MHz strap) to achieve the native 800MHz rating at 5-5-5-15. I have posted the details of my BIOS setting below but the main change that I made was to set Vcore to 1.35V.

My system is Memtest86+ stable (10 passes), Orthos Prime (9 hours) stable as well as IntelBurnTest stable (8 passes, Maximum Setting).

CPU idles at around 30C and under Orthos Prime/Most other applications inducing full load it goes up to around 53-55 C. IntelBurnTest is much harder on the CPU and brings it up all the way to 69C.

While I am very happy with what I have achieved so far (and my current system performance), I do feel that I could get a bit more out of my CPU/RAM. However, whenever I try to increase my FSB past 400MHz (I lower the CPU multiplier to 7 to prevent the CPU affecting the OC), I start having issues such as Memtest errors or failure to bootup. Am I basically at the FSB limit of this mobo or are there some settings that can help eke out higher FSB speeds? 425 MHz fails to post, and I have tried changing between B and D straps with no luck. While it could also be a RAM limitation, a bunch of Newegg reviews had people running this RAM at 900MHz at 5-5-5-15 without any trouble. I figured that 850Mhz (425 FSB) shouldn't be too much of an overclock so I do feel I am being limited by my mobo.

Thanks in advance for your help and suggestions.

Cheers.

MB Intelligent Tweaker(M.I.T.)
Robust Graphics Booster .................: auto
CPU Clock Ratio .........................: 8x
CPU Frequency ...........................: 3.2GHz (400x8)
 
 
Clock Chip Control
Standard Clock Control
CPU Host Clock Control...................: [Enabled]
CPU Host Frequency (Mhz) ................: 400MHz
PCI Express Frequency (Mhz) .............: 100
C.I.A.2 .................................: [Disabled]
 
 
Advanced Clock Control [Press Enter]
CPU Clock Drive..........................: 700 mV
PCI Express Clock Drive..................: 700 mV
CPU Clock Skew (ps)......................: 0 ps
MCH Clock Skew (ps)......................: 0 ps
 
 
DRAM Performance Control
Performance Enhance......................: [STANDARD]
(G)MCH Frequency Latch...................: 333MHz
System Memory Multiplier ................: 2.00B
Memory Frequency (Mhz) ..................: 800Mhz
DRAM Timing Selectable ..................: [Auto]
 
Standard Timing Control
CAS Latency Time.........................: 5
tRCD ....................................: 5
tRP'.....................................: 5
tRAS.....................................: 15
 
Advanced Timing Control
tRRD.....................................: 3
tWTR.....................................: 3
tWR......................................: 6
tRFC.....................................: 52
tRTP.....................................: 3
Command Rate (CMD) ......................: 0
 
 
Channel A
Static tRead Value.......................: Auto
 tRD Phase0 Adjustment...................: Auto
tRD Phase1 Adjustment....................: Auto
 tRD Phase2 Adjustment ..................: Auto
 tRD Phase3 Adjustment...................: Auto
Trd2rd(Different Rank)...................: Auto
Twr2wr(Different Rank)...................: Auto
Twr2rd(Different Rank)...................: Auto
Trd2wr(Same/Diff Rank)...................: Auto
Dimm1 Clock Skew Control.................: Auto  
Dimm2 Clock Skew Control.................: Auto  
DDR write Training.......................: Auto
 
Channel B
Static tRead Value.......................: Auto
 tRD Phase0 Adjustment...................: Auto
tRD Phase1 Adjustment....................: Auto
 tRD Phase2 Adjustment ..................: Auto
 tRD Phase3 Adjustment...................: Auto
Trd2rd(Different Rank)...................: Auto
Twr2wr(Different Rank)...................: Auto
Twr2rd(Different Rank)...................: Auto
Trd2wr(Same/Diff Rank)...................: Auto
Dimm1 Clock Skew Control.................: Auto  
Dimm2 Clock Skew Control.................: Auto  
 
Motherboard Voltage Control
Voltage Type.............................: Manual
 
CPU
CPU Vcore................................: 1.35000V    
CPU Termination..........................: Auto        (normal is  1.200v)
CPU Reference............................: Auto       (normal is  0.805v)
 
MCH/ICH
MCH Core.................................: 1.100V   (normal shows as 1.100V)
ICH I/O..................................: Auto        (normal shows as 1.550V)
 
 
DRAM
DRAM Voltage.............................: 1.900V   (normal shows as 1.8V)

 
Advanced Settings
Limit CPUID Max. to 3....................: [Disabled]
No-Execute Memory Protect................: [Enabled]
CPU Enhanced Halt (C1E)..................: [Disabled]
CPU Thermal Monitor 2(TM2) ..............: [Enabled]
CPU EIST Function........................: [Disabled]

[Chike]

I see your CPU Clock Drive and PCI Express Clock Drive are 700mV, mine are set to 800mV, have you loaded optimized defaults before you began OCing?
You have 4GB of ram MCH Core of 1.2v may help with that if your problem is with the memory only.
Your Static tRead Value does not show in MemSet, set it manualy, start with 10, you can probably use lower (9,8)

[orion2001]

Hi Chike, Thanks for your reply. Could you point me to where I might find the optimized bios defaults? I tried a forum search and I couldn't really find it. As for the MCH Voltage, I did try it at 1.2V but with no luck. Since 400fsb was previously stable at 1.1V I decided to back down to 1.1V for now.

Also, this might be a dumb question but I've never been totally sure about it...can you fry your mobo by trying to post at a FSB higher than what it can handle or is it only the voltages that tend to fry them? Are there any other ways to fry your mobo besides FSB/Voltage adjustments? I'm just a bit paranoid as I really don't want to have to redo the whole heatsink/thermalpaste bit along with the build :).

[Chike]

Originally Posted by orion2001

Hi Chike, Thanks for your reply. Could you point me to where I might find the optimized bios defaults? I tried a forum search and I couldn't really find it. As for the MCH Voltage, I did try it at 1.2V but with no luck. Since 400fsb was previously stable at 1.1V I decided to back down to 1.1V for now.

The Load Optimized Defalts at the main screen of BIOS settings. You will have to reapply changes you made again, best I, think, after saving the optimized defaults and a reboot.

Originally Posted by orion2001

Also, this might be a dumb question but I've never been totally sure about it...can you fry your mobo by trying to post at a FSB higher than what it can handle or is it only the voltages that tend to fry them?

I'm just 2 weeks to this OC stuff so I don't realy know.
You can get your mobo fried with high voltage and not enough cooling, but I don't think FSB is gonna do it. I may be wrong though.

Originally Posted by orion2001

Are there any other ways to fry your mobo besides FSB/Voltage adjustments?

I bet some gasolin and a match will get that job done. :-)

[Psycho101]

Chike is correct, a clock drive setting of 700/700 indicates you're using failsafe defaults (sometimes set after a BIOS flash for instance). The option to load optimized defaults is on the main BIOS screen. Select it, answer yes, save and exit the BIOS and then re-enter.

The safe range for MCH Core voltage is 1.1V-1.38V IMO. Setting 1.2V is a good starting point. It's possible for 4GB of RAM at stock FSB to need up to 1.26V o be stable, but it varies depending on components ofc.

Your RAM is the limiting factor in your ability to overclock further. If your max multiplier were higher it would be ok, but as you can't set a memory ratio less than 1:1 on an Intel chipset, you may have difficulty getting stable.

Below is a BIOS template for you to try. Please read the notes next to some of the settings. For instance I've noted you may need to slightly over volt your RAM, but try it with the rated voltage first as I'm 99% sure your sticks will have a little in reserve. GSkill is one of my favourite brands, as it's nice and stable and clocks well (usually, as ever individual components do vary).

For 3.4GHz I would try the following:

MB Intelligent Tweaker(M.I.T.)
Robust Graphics Booster .................: auto
CPU Clock Ratio .........................: 8x
CPU Frequency ...........................: 3.4GHz (425x8)
 
 
Clock Chip Control
Standard Clock Control
CPU Host Clock Control...................: [Enabled]
CPU Host Frequency (Mhz) ................: 425MHz
PCI Express Frequency (Mhz) .............: 100
C.I.A.2 .................................: [Disabled]
 
 
Advanced Clock Control [Press Enter]
CPU Clock Drive..........................: - mV  <--Leave this at what ever is set when optimized defaults are loaded.
PCI Express Clock Drive..................: - mV <--<--Leave this at what ever is set when optimized defaults are loaded.
CPU Clock Skew (ps)......................: 0 ps
MCH Clock Skew (ps)......................: 0 ps
 
 
DRAM Performance Control
Performance Enhance......................: [STANDARD]
(G)MCH Frequency Latch...................: [Auto] /= 400
Memory Frequency (Mhz) ..................: 850Mhz < Your RAM should do this speed, but there's no guarantee.
DRAM Timing Selectable ..................: [Manual]
 
Standard Timing Control
CAS Latency Time.........................: 5
tRCD ....................................: 5
tRP'.....................................: 5
tRAS.....................................: 15
 
Advanced Timing Control
tRRD.....................................: 4  <-- I've set these 5 sub-timings looser due to the RAM overclock. Set them tighter one by one when you get stable.
tWTR.....................................: 4
tWR......................................: 8
tRFC.....................................: 68
tRTP.....................................: 4
Command Rate (CMD) ......................: 2 <-- 2T is fine, and good for stability.
 
 
Channel A
Static tRead Value.......................: 9 <--Important to set manually. Any problems POSTing, this is the value to change first. Try 10 if not stable, and if you get stable try to lower it to 8, then 7, basically lower till you can't boot, then raise up one.
 
 
Channel B
Static tRead Value.......................: 9 <--Important to set manually. Any problems POSTing, this is the value to change first. Try 10 if not stable, and if you get stable try to lower it to 8, then 7, basically lower till you can't boot, then raise up one.

 
Motherboard Voltage Control
Voltage Type.............................: Manual
 
CPU

**If your board has a setting near here called LLC (Load Line Calibration) you may want to enable it. It prevents the normal Vdroop (decreasing of Vcore supplied) when you load the CPU. Vdroop can sometimes cause instability. Being a 65nm chip, LLC will 100% cause no harm at all, combined with Vcores up to around 1.50V, even beyond.

CPU Vcore................................: 1.35000V    < Adjust this upward. You may want to try 1.4V initially. Your chip is rated to 1.5V, but keep an eye on core temperatures. Aim for a max of 60-65c in Prime95. IBT temps are less important, as nothing I've ever ran software wise has come close to getting the CPU as hot. Over 80c is a cause for concern though when running IBT.

CPU Termination..........................: 1.38V <--Never, ever leave this on auto when overclocking as the board over volts it. This setting is a CPU killer if too high. Stay at 1.5V-1.54V for your 65nm Conroe IMO

CPU Reference............................: Auto       (normal is  0.805v) <--Should be ok on auto. References aren't over volted by the board.
 
MCH/ICH
MCH Core.................................: 1.24V <--Tuning this can have an effect on stability. Too much or too less causes problems. There is usually a stable range though, so it's not too difficult to tune.

ICH I/O..................................: Set 1.55V manually, the less on auto (references are usually fine on auto) the better
 
 
DRAM
DRAM Voltage.............................: 1.900V   (normal shows as 1.8V) < Set to at least the maximum rated voltage. This is on the sticker located on the RAM modules. You *may* need a bit more voltage to coax them into doing DDR-850. A 0.1V increase to 2.0V (if rated voltage is 1.9) is in my opinion very safe. Personally I'd be willing to go up to 2.1V as 99.9% of modules will be happy and run at an acceptable temperature at that. Up to you though. Keep voltage to the minimum needed, and set a limit that you're comfortable with. 

 
Advanced Settings
Limit CPUID Max. to 3....................: [Disabled]
No-Execute Memory Protect................: [Enabled]
CPU Enhanced Halt (C1E)..................: [Disabled] <--Try this enabled after you're stable. It can reduce idle temperatures as well as save power. Idle temps aren't really important, but if you can get them lower with a simple setting, it's good to do so.
CPU Thermal Monitor 2(TM2) ..............: [Enabled]
CPU EIST Function........................: [Disabled] <-- See note next to C1E above.

Edit*** Beaten to the post by Chike. Good advice.

As for component damage, the following settings and factors can break your expensive silicon:

• Vcore set too high. Who knows what amount will make the CPU go pop. Safe ranges for your chip are quoted as being 0.85V – 1.5V. See here for details : Intel® Core?2 Duo Desktop Processor E6750 - SLA9V
  
• Too high a core temperature over a sustained period, regardless of speed and Vcore. Recommended range for safety is up to 60-65c. a couple of degrees more is likely fine though. The thermal limit recommended for your chip is in that link.
  
• Excessive PLL (clock generator) voltage
  
• Excessive VTT (CPU Termination)
  
• Excessive RAM voltage
  
• Excessive MCH Core voltage.

Not much else will cause damage. Power surges can, so use a surge protector. Also when handling components be careful of static. An extremely high voltage but low current static shock can be instant death to a CPU, RAM, Video card, motherboard etc.

In all likelihood you won't be able to kill a component just by setting too high a frequency. In that situation you probably won't boot, or stability will be so poor, you can't physically run it at that speed for very long before a BSOD/power off. The combination of moderate high Vcore, a high overclock and dodgy temps can combine to kill a component though. It may be pretty instant, and without warning, or be a slow degradation of the component. For example DDR-800 RAM may do DDR-1000 at high voltage with very warm temps one day, then give BSOD's and have to be reduced to DDR-950, then over time DDR-900, DDR-800. Also it could degrade to below rated specs and then maybe die too.

[Chike]

Originally Posted by Psycho101

Chike is correct, a clock drive setting of 700/700 indicates you're using failsafe defaults

From all my teachers I have learned (free translation from hebrew,) I saw it in one of your posts.
It is strange though I think, mine default to 800/800 while P45 to 800/900, could be one of the differences in chips.

Originally Posted by Psycho101

The safe range for MCH Core voltage is 1.1V-1.38V IMO. Setting 1.2V is a good starting point. It's possible for 4GB of RAM at stock FSB to need up to 1.26V o be stable, but it varies depending on components ofc.

We don't have the fine voltage tuning, MCH Core steps are 0.1v only, so goes with Vtt and I guess with the ref too (only 4 or 5 options there)

[orion2001]

Wow! Excellent advice Psycho101 and Chike. Thanks a ton! That is very helpful. I'll go ahead and play with stuff a bit more and see if I can get past 400fsb. I'll report back tomorrow with an update. Thanks again :)

[Psycho101]

Originally Posted by Chike

From all my teachers I have learned (free translation from hebrew,) I saw it in one of your posts.
It is strange though I think, mine default to 800/800 while P45 to 800/900, could be one of the differences in chips.


We don't have the fine voltage tuning, MCH Core steps are 0.1v only, so goes with Vtt and I guess with the ref too (only 4 or 5 options there)

Thanks for clarifying those points Chike. I wasn't aware of the exact BIOS behaviours for a P43. Clock drive could very well be chipset dependant.

[orion2001]

Psycho101, Just one thing I'm a bit confused about. you mentioned that CPU termination is usually overvolted when on Auto. However the Max selectable Voltage (manually) is 1.5V on this MOBO (and the normal column shows 1.2V). Should I manually set it all the way to 1.5V or is it better to stay at 1.2-1.3V on this Mobo. I'm a bit worried about setting it to the highest selectable voltage in the mobo settings =)

[Psycho101]

As with all voltages, apart from reference voltages, less is always better. However, if your particular board only goes up to 1.5V, Auto settings on your Chip isn't dangerous. If you were running a 45nm chip eg E5xxx, E7xxx, E8xxx, Q8xxx and Q9xxx anything more than 1.4V is entering the danger zone. It's definitely best to set a manual voltage IMO.

Setting the max voltage for a certain setting is ok, as long as the voltage isn't harmful to the component. For example, on my board setting the required 2.1V for my RAM results in the setting being coloured purple. Values go purple when the board thinks the voltage is too high, as kind of a warning. However a voltage requirement of 2.1V is very common for DDR2 rated to DDR-1066 and on some low latency DDR-800 too.