GA-N650SLI-DS4 barely reaching POST

[profJim]

One thing I want to mention is that, on my mobo, half of the 8-pin socket was always blocked by a plastic cover. The manual doens't even mention it; but my 4 pin 12V wire has worked for a good five years now.

The cover is to help protect you from yourself.
The 8-pin socket is keyed so that a 4-pin connector can only be inserted one way correctly. If you used a lot of force, you could insert the 4-pin cable in the wrong position and cause a short circuit. It's best to use the 8-pin psu cable when you are using a higher powered cpu and overclocking. I always use the 8-pin cable even though I have a mid-range cpu.

[GEJ2012]

Heck of a week. Never a solid hour of "me time"! But I'm testing right now. Here's what I have so far.

I labelled all 4 memory sticks with a sharpie; because they all look identical. Labelled them 1, 2, 3 and 4.

I started with stick 1 in slot 1. Of course the video card was installed. Fired it up, it beeped, then the Gigabyte logo showed, and that was it. No POST screen.

Moved that stick to slot 2. No beep, no logo screen, no nothing. Just a tiny crackling sound from the speaker, after a few seconds. Moved it to slot 3 and 4. Same deal: no logo, no POST, crackling sound.

I did the same with sticks 2, 3 and 4, going through all 4 slots. The exact same thing happened, 12 times.

Since I found it hard to believe that all 4 sticks would be bad (I know, not impossible) I fired up the board without any memory installed. This time I was expecting some error beep code as explained in the back of the manual, but I didn't hear any.

Thinking it would sound some error codes without both memory and graphics card I removed that card as well. Again, nothing, not a single beep.

For the second round of tests I repeated all steps above, but this time briefly putting a jumper on the CMOS clear contacts (a few seconds, each time). The results were almost the same: this time I didn't even see the logo screen with stick 1 in slot 1.

All fans are running properly, and every time I powered to PSU down and back up (while swapping RAM) I briefly saw the NIC led flash.

I don't know... I've yet to swap the CPUs; that takes a while with that huge fan. I'd like to run it without the CPU, to see what it does then. Surely it should beep when that's removed!

Ugh. No fun.

Erik

[profJim]

If you still have the stock Intel cpu heatsink, use it and see if that makes a difference.
There might be a problem with your big cpu heatsink installed.
Test with only one monitor connected, preferably with a different video card.
There is a short list of bios beep error codes at the bottom of page 86 in the mobo user manual.
Can you borrow a single ddr2 memory module to test with?
Your case speaker might also be defective.

The dual bios chip setup doesn't always work.
There is a way to copy the backup bios to the main bios while booting, but this is a last resort.
Two of the the main bios chip's connectors need to be carefully connected while booting and there is a possibility that your can brick your motherboard if you accidentally contact a nearby bios chip connector.

Many LGA775 motherboards don't have a rear panel COM connector, but many do have a COM header that can be used with a rear panel COM bracket.

Did you unplug your psu from the wall outlet before removing or installing hardware?

[GEJ2012]

Hi there, back to testing...

If you still have the stock Intel cpu heatsink, use it and see if that makes a difference.
There might be a problem with your big cpu heatsink installed.

I do still have that original fan. Just cleaned it, ready to install, but... see below. I always wondered what that big heatsink and fan would do after X-number of years, all that weight hanging off of the mobo and all...

Test with only one monitor connected, preferably with a different video card.

I just noticed the graphics card in this old PC is a PCI card. I'll be ripping that out in a little while. And the speaker!

There is a short list of bios beep error codes at the bottom of page 86 in the mobo user manual.

Got that with me here, thanks.

Can you borrow a single ddr2 memory module to test with?

Most likely not. I live in a very small TX town, actually not in town itself. I know very few people here.

Your case speaker might also be defective.

I'll find out for sure in a little while.

The dual bios chip setup doesn't always work.
There is a way to copy the backup bios to the main bios while booting, but this is a last resort.
Two of the the main bios chip's connectors need to be carefully connected while booting and there is a possibility that your can brick your motherboard if you accidentally contact a nearby bios chip connector.

I wasn't aware of a way to copy a backup. Interesting. And as a last resort then, yes.

Many LGA775 motherboards don't have a rear panel COM connector, but many do have a COM header that can be used with a rear panel COM bracket.

That would take care of one of my needs then. Also would need FireWire, and other stuff.

Did you unplug your psu from the wall outlet before removing or installing hardware?

Oh yes. And ESD wrist strap.

Anyway. It still doesn't look good. I've got it sitting on my desk now, on the cardboard. I took the big fan off, and removed the CPU. Powered it up; but no beep, no nothing. PSU fans run, LAN led flashes, speaker crackles, but that's it. I was expecting a few beeps with all that necessary hardware removed, but... nope.

More in a few hours, I hope.

Erik

[GEJ2012]

OK... I don't really understand what's going on; but I seem to be making some progress.

I took the PCI graphics card and speaker out of the old PC. Then I remembered that my wife has an old Dell machine stored here, which works except for the fact that its onboard video is horribly distorted, can't really read anything on it. I got curious as to its power supply and RAM. The PSU is nothing big; but it does have a 24 pin MB connecter plus a 4 pin connector. There's a Gig of RAM in that machine; which - according to Dell's online docs - is 667 MHz DDR2. More stuff to test with!

So I hooked up the PSU to my machine. No good. Same with the RAM: one stick, two sticks, no changes. Grrrr. So I took the (Dell) RAM back out and removed the Dell PSU.

Frustrated with the whole deal I decided to take a break and when I got back inside I remembered your comment about the big CPU fan. I had taken the fan and heatsink off earlier; but had left the bolts attached to the mobo. Those things were a pain the put in, and I kinda knew they'd be even worse to remove.

But I removed them; took the backplate off (not easy after all these years, because of the adhesive), then put the E7400 CPU back and installed the stock Intel fan. If I get the thing to behave again I'll leave the stock Intel fan in place; my OC days are over anyway. Hooked it back up to my own PSU. Just for the hell of it I fired it up.

What I heard next was the longest beep I've error heard! DRAM error, according to the manual. Sure, there was no memory on the mobo! I couldn't believe my ears; but this was definitely a step in the right direction, yay!

So I put one stick of RAM in there, in slot 1. Fired it back up, and no long beep this time; instead I heard the long-short-short beeps that indicate a graphics card problem. OK! Then I put back the graphics card (my own PCIE card, not the PCI card from the old PC). I've seen the logo and POST screen three times so far, after restarting. No problems up to this!

I keep getting the "boot disk failure" line; but of course that's very normal, lol!

I'm going to put this thing back together, one piece at a time. Then the 2 other machines I've taken apart in the process. It looks like a small parts depot here...

Anyway, still not sure what happened. And I do hope it keeps working!! If it doesn't... I'll be back.

Thanks,

Erik

[profJim]

You're welcome, glad to help out.

Anyway, still not sure what happened. And I do hope it keeps working!! If it doesn't... I'll be back.

Thanks for the warning
It looks like the heatsink's back plate might have caused an intermittent short circuit.
What is the brand and model number of the heatsink and fan?

It certainly helps to have a lot of "spare parts" available for testing.
Be sure to let us know if everything is OK after you've fully reassembled and tested your system.

[GEJ2012]

You're welcome, glad to help out.
Thanks for the warning

You're welcome too. Yeah, yeah, I know: I write too much!

It looks like the heatsink's back plate might have caused an intermittent short circuit.

Sounds about right, yes. And again: I'm very happy you pointed me in this direction. It would probably have been the last thing I'd suspect; and the very last thing I'd remove if you hadn't mentioned it! Everything was tightened nicely. There is (now "was") a bit of rubber foam between the backplate and the PCB, quite thick, which is supposed to insulate the metal backplate from the PCB. I imagine that, over the years, something went wrong there.

Which reminds me of something I didn't think of earlier: for the past two years or so I'd have problems for a few days, right around the time when the seasons (really!) change. In this part of the world winter and summer usually appear all of a sudden, without warning. In October or November temperatures can drop dramatically in just 2 or 3 days. The same thing with summer: one day it's nice and warm; and two days later we're getting dehydrated.

And right around those times my PC would act up for a day or two, as well. I'd fire it up in the morning, walk off to the kitchen, only to hear the speaker beep again a few seconds later. It'd do that for a day or two, then would work fine for months. After the first couple of times I blamed it on components stretching or shrinking (not an uncommon source of problems in the two way radio business I'm employed in); but never really got around to finding the real reason. Right now, after this fan/backplate issue (if that turns out to be the reason) it all makes sense; because when this particular problem started we had gone from 30 Celcius to 40+ Celcius in just a few days.

What is the brand and model number of the heatsink and fan?

It's an Aerocool Dominator, as seen here: Newegg.com - AeroCool Dominator 140mm Sleeve CPU Cooler. If you've never seen it before then go and have a look. It's big, no - huge! It barely fits in my mid-size case. There is not a whole lot of room between it and the PSU, and between it and the back of the case. At the time I got it, back in the E4500 days, it was the biggest thing I could get, with the most airflow. And it did help me to OC that CPU quite a bit - without going to watercooling (which I really didn't want to do). It is super quiet; because it runs at a very low speed. But, as I always kinda feared, gravity may have pulled too much on this thing, doing bad things to my mobo...

It certainly helps to have a lot of "spare parts" available for testing.

I know. I used to have lots of them, back in my OCing days. But I ran out of time to do a whole lot of experimenting a few years ago; and gave everything away to a "local" teen. I hear he has a computer store now.

Be sure to let us know if everything is OK after you've fully reassembled and tested your system.

I certainly will. I have put the two other PCs back together (and momma said thank you for hers!); but decided to leave my own on the desk, keep it out of its case until tomorrow, just in case you had some other question or recommendation.

I hooked up both HDs, downloaded my emails; and am now rendering a video that should have been finished if it weren't for that infamous Sunday. It's been running real smooth for over an hour now. And while I was adding components I had to cold boot every single time - never a problem.

Let's hope it stays this way, and I'll report back tomorrow. And I need to remember to shut the door so the darn cats don't mess with it overnight!

Thanks Jim. If that's your name. Although I can't imagine it's "prof".

Erik

[profJim]

It's an Aerocool Dominator, as seen here: Newegg.com - AeroCool Dominator 140mm Sleeve CPU Cooler. If you've never seen it before then go and have a look. It's big, no - huge! It barely fits in my mid-size case. There is not a whole lot of room between it and the PSU, and between it and the back of the case. At the time I got it, back in the E4500 days, it was the biggest thing I could get, with the most airflow. And it did help me to OC that CPU quite a bit - without going to watercooling (which I really didn't want to do). It is super quiet; because it runs at a very low speed. But, as I always kinda feared, gravity may have pulled too much on this thing, doing bad things to my mobo...

Hmmm.....I thought that everything is supposed to be big in Texas.
Your heatsink is downright puny compared with the GeninII heatsink coolers that I ran in both of my systems using dual Scythe S-Flex SFF21F 1600 rpm fans on each heatsink. The fans were virtually silent when set to run at 1300 rpm.
I like the down draft cooler setups as it helps to cool VRM's and other motherboard components. The downside is that they aren't quite as effective in cooling the cpu.
It looks like the really big stuff is in Washington state.
No insult intended.

Sometimes the heatsink's mounting setup can cause problems due to the back plate or with the motherboard's memory electrical traces that are often very close to the heatsink's mounting setup on the top of the motherboard.

Which reminds me of something I didn't think of earlier: for the past two years or so I'd have problems for a few days, right around the time when the seasons (really!) change.

Sounds like your system has SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder) and can't deal with the rapid weather changes.

My original N650SLI-DS4 could overclock my E6550 to 3.423GHz (7 x 489MHz) but required maximum voltage settings. It ate it's bios when it was only 3 weeks old and refused to post. The RMA replacement is a terrible overclocker that isn't stable using 425MHz or higher. A couple of years ago, I thought about taking a chance and installing my E6300 (R0) cpu with it's 10.5x multiplier because my board is stable with reasonable voltages up to 375MHz. There's no way around the FSB wall between 375 - 425MHz. I ended buying a used E6850 cpu with a 9x multiplier and the system runs well at 3.3GHz (9 x 367MHz).

What'sa matter, you don't want your cats tweaking your system?


(not my motherboard)

[profJim]

For those who aren't familiar with the large "roach motel" chipset heatsink on the N650SLI-DS4:

<-- "Oh dear, where did I put my lost roach motel room key card?"

**edit** forgot to add, my real name is Aloysius P. Throgmorton III, but everyone mis-pronunciates it so I go by Jim.

[GEJ2012]

Hello Aloysius P. Throgmorton III, told you I'd be back.

Hmmm.....I thought that everything is supposed to be big in Texas.

Only the women are.

Your heatsink is downright puny compared with the GeninII heatsink coolers that I ran in both of my systems using dual Scythe S-Flex SFF21F 1600 rpm fans on each heatsink. The fans were virtually silent when set to run at 1300 rpm.
I like the down draft cooler setups as it helps to cool VRM's and other motherboard components. The downside is that they aren't quite as effective in cooling the cpu.
It looks like the really big stuff is in Washington state.
No insult intended.

None taken! And pretty soon after I heard that saying about Texas I came up with my own: It may be bigger, but that don't necessarily mean it's better...

Sometimes the heatsink's mounting setup can cause problems due to the back plate or with the motherboard's memory electrical traces that are often very close to the heatsink's mounting setup on the top of the motherboard.

I agree; I just never experimented enough with these kind of setups to have had this happen before. Do read on though, please.

Sounds like your system has SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder) and can't deal with the rapid weather changes.

It's got something alright, big time. I'll get to the point all the way at the bottom.

My original N650SLI-DS4 could overclock my E6550 to 3.423GHz (7 x 489MHz) but required maximum voltage settings. It ate it's bios when it was only 3 weeks old and refused to post. The RMA replacement is a terrible overclocker that isn't stable using 425MHz or higher. A couple of years ago, I thought about taking a chance and installing my E6300 (R0) cpu with it's 10.5x multiplier because my board is stable with reasonable voltages up to 375MHz. There's no way around the FSB wall between 375 - 425MHz. I ended buying a used E6850 cpu with a 9x multiplier and the system runs well at 3.3GHz (9 x 367MHz).

Bummer about that replacement; that is a huge difference!!!

What'sa matter, you don't want your cats tweaking your system?

Oh I'd love it if they'd do that! The four of them, tweaking away, while I'm asleep. Sweet deal... No, the biggest problem is that at least two of them just love to chew on stuff like AC cords and extension cables. And I didn't want to give them a new toy to chew on. They bite pretty big holes in those wires. I'm surprised those two haven't electrocuted themselves yet.

(not my motherboard)

Oh yum!

OK, so here's the thing. Everything worked a few days ago, when I reported it. I didn't have time to put everything back in the case that night; and the next day, when I finally did have time, there was thunder and lightning all over the place so I had to postpone it again.

Two days ago, on Monday, I put everything back in the case. Turned it on, and beep! After that: straight into Windows. Did some work, then I noticed Windows was downloadiing some updates. After a while we got more thunder and lighting, and I had to shut it off and unplug. Having had other stuff fried because of lightning I rather be safe than sorry.

As I'm turning off the PC Windows screams at me that it still needs to install those updates. 8 of them. It installs them, took a while; and then it finally says "shutting down". Nope, it didn't. And after 30 minutes or so I simply hit the power button, lightning coming closer every minute.

Later that night with the storm gone I fired it back up. It beeped, went to POST screen, beeped again, and - nothing! Grrrr! I turned it on and off a few times; and eventually it loaded Windows. That was Monday night, and I decided to leave it on overnight so I could at least do some work the next day. It ran fine for close to 48 hours; then this afternoon I had to turn it off again, for more thunderstorms. Same thing happened again tonight, when I got home: I had to give it quite a few tries but now I've been working on it for hours.

It seems to run just fine whenever I do get into Windows. But before I do... boy oh boy!

One thing I remembered you asked me about some time ago was to check the voltages, so here's a screenshot:



The DDR voltage is a bit high. According to the manufacturer these sticks are happier with 1.8V (+/- 0.1V). But the current Voltage may have been set automatically, after loading failsafe defaults.

In any case: I feel like I'm back on square one. But I know you got more tips!

Erik