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Thread: Z77X UD3H - Win8 UEFI mode Install, CSM will NOT turn off in bios

  1. #1
    SLICKRIC21 is offline Junior Member
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    Default Z77X UD3H - Win8 UEFI mode Install, CSM will NOT turn off in bios

    Guys,

    As per the title i've done a Win8 x64 UEFI install on my Z77 UD3H. Install and OS working sweet

    Few little quirks in the bios options though an wonder if anyone else has the same experience, or whether my F19j beta bios is to blame, or i'm just a noob.

    My bios settings are...


    - OS Type "Windows 8 WHQL"
    - CSM This is the problem setting
    - Boot Mode Selection "UEFI only"
    - Storage Boot Option Control "UEFI only"
    - Other PCI Device ROM Priority "UEFI OpRom"

    -Secure Boot "Enabled"

    When I try to turn off the CSM by changing to "Disabled", then F10, upon reboot it is always "Enabled" again.

    Now although my setup is running fine, I just wanted to turn this off as I believe it will further lessen the boot time.
    Is there some reason its always coming back on ?

    I have a MSI 7970 lightning, a Xonar DG sound card and a Killer 2100 NIC all connected.
    Does one of these things need CSM to be enabled maybe ?

    PS:
    While i'm here, what setting should I use for secure boot and why ? :)
    Last edited by SLICKRIC21; 05-16-2013 at 03:01 AM.

  2. #2
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    parsec is online now Senior Member
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    Default Re: Z77X UD3H - Win8 UEFI mode Install, CSM will NOT turn off in bios

    First, if CSM is enabled, you are not UEFI booting. Windows 8 UEFI booting installations still put a MBR on the OS drive, so standard MBR/BIOS booting is possible. CSM is really the main switch (currently) that determines BIOS or UEFI booting.

    The current settings used by most mother board manufactures to enable UEFI booting are inconsistent, confusing, missing or at least not documented well at all. But it seems ASUS has built some checks into that UEFI to prevent problems. IMO, that is why CSM is always reset to enabled.

    The issue probably is, UEFI booting requires the video device to support the GOP video protocol used with UEFI booting. 95% or more of video cards do not support GOP in their Vbios. Which means you can't use them when UEFI booting. Guess what video source supports GOP? The Intel IGP on Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge CPUs... I don't know which AMD CPUs with on board video support GOP.

    So I'm guessing that your UEFI is detecting a non-GOP compliant video device, and changes CSM back to enabled. It could also be the Other PCI Device ROM Priority set to UEFIOpRom, which either does not exist, or is detected as non-GOP compliant. If I disable CSM when my video card is the selected video device, I get an error during POST that the video card does not support GOP.

    I don't know what CPU you have, but you probably have one with an Intel IGP. You could switch to that (gasp!) to test UEFI booting. That is what I must do to get UEFI booting to work. EVGA has been providing a VBIOS update on request for their 600 series video cards, but I don't know what other video card manufactures are doing for their products. I just learned of this VBIOS update, so have not tried it yet.

  3. #3
    SLICKRIC21 is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: Z77X UD3H - Win8 UEFI mode Install, CSM will NOT turn off in bios

    Thanks Parsec, very informative as usual.

    I did wonder about the Video cards and the effect that had on UEFI, I had come across the eVGA thread about providing EFI compatible bios's - but didn't really understand where it all fitted in.

    Quote Originally Posted by parsec View Post
    First, if CSM is enabled, you are not UEFI booting. Windows 8 UEFI booting installations still put a MBR on the OS drive, so standard MBR/BIOS booting is possible. CSM is really the main switch (currently) that determines BIOS or UEFI booting.
    This is very interesting aswell.

    So although I installed Win8 with GPT (presence of MSR partion on install), had to load raid drivers during install to recognize my raid 0 disk, that all boot options are set to UEFI only, my primary boot device is labelled "windows boot manager", and that there is a 100mb EFI partion right on my disk as we speak.......... i'm still not UEFI booting ?

    It really is all abit baffling to me

    Guess i'll test booting with my HD 4000 when i get a minute, and make sure my next GFX card to replace my 7970 Lightning is an eVGA 780 ;)

    Update:
    Ive requested a UEFI GOP vBIOS from MSI forums who are also happy to provide them for users on request.
    Last edited by SLICKRIC21; 05-16-2013 at 08:56 PM. Reason: update:

  4. #4
    SLICKRIC21 is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: Z77X UD3H - Win8 UEFI mode Install, CSM will NOT turn off in bios

    Yep it was the vBios.

    I flashed with a UEFI GOP vBios for my 7970 Lightning and now CSM remains disabled when set and saved in bios.

    There is no improvement (to the already good) boot time, as it still sits on the Gigabyte splash screen with enter bios/boot menu options, but maybe this is because i have a PCI sound card and a PCIe network card that need initializing ?

  5. #5
    parsec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Z77X UD3H - Win8 UEFI mode Install, CSM will NOT turn off in bios

    Great, I'm glad you figured that out on your own, I did not want to get into a no that's not right back and forth thing. It sure seemed to me that it was the card's VBIOS, since your UEFI installation sounded right, and the GOP compatibility thing is a real but not very well known thing yet. And thanks too.

    The UEFI booting thing is really just now getting attention from more PC users like us, plus we can actually do it since we finally have the UEFI options needed. I still think the mobo manufactures have not sorted out the settings yet.

    I thought I said that a UEFI Windows 8 installation will still put a MBR on the OS drive, so you can still BIOS/legacy boot, I can do that just by enabling CSM. Microsoft calls that the "protective MBR", and claims it is there so legacy utilities like Memtest will still work. Critics say that MBR violates the UEFI standard (which I guess it does) but IMO I like it to be there just in case, and I don't see the downside of having it. That MBR is why you could boot with your video card without the GOP compatible VBIOS. That Windows Boot Manager entry is what you should see after a UEFI installation.

    I know of that thread in the EVGA forum, and just changed my 600 series video card to the UEFI/GOP VBIOS, as you did with your card. Worked fine, using it right now.

    Regarding boot time, did you disable all the POST screens, and option ROM displays? I use an Intel NIC card, but that is not the same as your 2100 NIC, which may take longer to start. Then the next thing is, does your board's UEFI have a Fast Boot option?

    My ASRock board does, with disabled, Fast, and Ultra Fast settings. When set to Ultra Fast, the time from a cold start to the desktop is quicker than when disabled, and is the fastest I've ever seen. I have a SSD OS drive, so that makes a difference, and if you have HDDs in the PC, POST may be waiting for them to wake up. I noticed that Ultra Fast actually must skip certain things that usually happen during POST, like all the mother board fan speed readings are not displayed in a monitoring program I use.

    When using Ultra Fast boot mode, it is impossible to get into the UEFI by pressing Del/F2. ASRock provides a utility that when run restarts the PC, and starts the UEFI UI automatically. Actually, Windows 8 has that option too, but it is buried under several option screens.

    Great to hear more video card manufactures are providing UEFI/GOP compatible VBIOS updates. EVGA said that only their 600 series cards can be updated like that, so I was wondering about other manufactures, and AMD based cards. Did MSI say that your card will not work when BIOS booting anymore after that update? I think that is the case with some cards, but I'm not sure.

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    SLICKRIC21 is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: Z77X UD3H - Win8 UEFI mode Install, CSM will NOT turn off in bios

    Great follow up, thanks for taking the time.

    MSI only told me to flash both my cards Bios's (it has 2) because with the standard vBios it wouldn't boot into a UEFI install. They said to be safe flash both, in case I accidentally flick the switch over.
    (However as with my experience on the Z77 UD3H, it actually enabled CSM itself when a standard vBios was used, which was a good safety net.)

    No mention of visa verse though, eg if the one is Bios booting and card has a GOP vBios.

    Regarding the Fast/Ultra fast Boot options, they are all disabled at the moment, as Gigabyte seem to be having alot of problems with this feature at the minute. In the bios threads there is many posts about it not working properly.

    Last time I tried fast boot (albeit with a Win7 install) it completely removed my overclock and i couldn't even make any bios changes stick, only option was to reflash it !!

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    Default Re: Z77X UD3H - Win8 UEFI mode Install, CSM will NOT turn off in bios

    I'm glad to discuss UEFI booting, I've done it for the first time earlier this year, not to mention that my Z77 board is the only one I've had that actually allows UEFI booting to be enabled. I'm fascinated with the various options I've heard about related to UEFI booting on boards like yours and others, and don't really understand what the purpose of some of those options really are. My ASRock board really has only one option for UEFI booting, the CSM option, enabled (default) or disabled. Secure Boot is another story.

    Actually, Secure Boot should be an option when UEFI booting, not required. Secure Boot requires UEFI booting, but you can UEFI boot without enabling Secure Boot. Some (probably all) boards will automatically disable CSM if Secure Boot is enabled, so users thought they must enable Secure Boot to enable UEFI booting. I did too at first, but now know better. Secure Boot itself does nothing to decrease boot time, but some guides I read said to enable Secure Boot as the method of enabling UEFI booting. It works due to the side effect of disabling CSM, but is really not the correct way to enable UEFI booting, IMO. My PC (actually two) with Windows 8 is UEFI booting with CSM and Secure Boot disabled.

    I've read about the UEFI problems that Gigabyte is having with some of their Z77 boards. That's to bad, I wonder if they tried to be extra fancy, which was a mistake. Considering that for years all the mobo manufactures have bought the basic UEFI or BIOS code from companies like AMI or Phoenix, which is then modified by them to varying degrees, they really must have messed up something.

    The Ultra Fast boot option works fine on my ASRock board, but you must be UEFI booting with Windows 8 and have a GOP compatible video source. I think it's even faster now with my video card's new VBIOS, than booting with the Intel IGP graphics, but I'm talking a couple seconds at most. My ASR board cannot use Ultra Fast boot with Windows 7 when UEFI booting, according to the specs and I tried it too, epic fail.

    Your MSI 7970 video card has one of the latest GPU's from AMD, and is a very new card, correct? I wonder if earlier AMD cards cannot be changed to a GOP compatible VBIOS, like the EVGA/Nvidia cards?

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