GA-N650SLI-DS4 barely reaching POST

[GEJ2012]

Hi all,

I'm new to this forum. I see most of you are running much more advanced hardware than I am; but I'm glad I found it, hoping you will help me troubleshoot my issue.

I've been running a GA-N650SLI-DS4 mobo for many years, and for the past year and a half or so with an E7400 CPU (which replaced the E4500 that came with the mobo). Always worked fine (despite the E7400 not being on the supported CPU list). Also running 4 GB, 4 x 1 GB, DDR2 800 RAM, and the usual suspects of HD, DVD, and video card.

Anyway, earlier, on monday this week, my PC didn't want to start. Drive lights came on, fans came on, monitor light came on; but that was it. No Gigabyte logo, no post screen, not even the oh so familiar beep. Tried rebooting several times, warm and cold; but the screen remained black and the HD light stayed unlit. Because I didn't have much time I left it alone until that evening; but the same happened (or didn't happen, depening on how you look at it!). I unplugged it, hoping for a miracle.

It wasn't until Thursday night, yesterday, that I had enough time to spend a few hours on it. I took it apart, and cleaned it. Lots of Texas dust inside... Just for the heck of it I popped the battery out, and left it like that while I was cleaning it. Put everything back together, hooked it up to the AC cord, pushed the power button and ... BEEP! Good to go. Or so I thought...

The first couple of tries weren't very succesful: it got stuck on the POST screen a few times, rebooted a few times by itself, but after a dozen or so tries I did manage to get Windows to run. I replied to a few week-old emails, then decided it would be wise to make a backup of my files to an external drive, just in case something would happen to the HD. That backup and verify operation took over 5 hours (that's not fast, but normal, considering the hundreds of Gigs); and the PC worked just fine during it. I turned it off for the night.

This morning I turned it on, and there was the familiar beep. I walked into the kitchen for breakfast, saw Windows load, desktop loaded, after a while the screen saver started and a little later the screen went to sleep. I was so happy! Didn't last long. After breakfast I returned to the PC, wiggled the mouse and... nothing happened. Turned the monitor off and on, only to see "no signal". So I hit the reset button, waited for the beep - nothing. Argh!

Several reset button presses later I turned it off. Waited. Beep! Windows loaded, desktop looked fine; but as soon as I clicked the first icon Windows locked up. Dang. I walked off again, thinking maybe Windows was creating an error report. Then I heard a beep, had a look, and sure enough: both monitors were black. It restarted behind my back, then locked up before getting to the Gigabyte logo.

I've been trying to get it to do something, anything, ever since, but no luck. There have been a couple beeps, a few times I got to the POST, but then it either hangs or reboots. I've even seen the gray "select your BIOS settings set or load the last ones that worked" screen; but I've seen it hang on that screen too once, after the timer goes to zero.

Frustrating. I bought this board years ago because it was one of the last ones to offer a COM port, and firewire, and what not. I have lots of external hardware, and a good replacement that meets my needs is hard to come by, nowadays. So I'd like to revive this puppy!!

I should have some time on Friday, Saturday and Sunday to test stuff. But frankly: I'm stumped. So if anyone has any suggestions then please fire away!

Thanks,

Erik

(sorry about the lenghty post - I'm a writer )

[profJim]

Re: GA-N650SLI-DS4 barely reaching POST

Clearly not a man of few words.
I have an N650SLI-DS4 that still runs, but I use it infrequently.

We can best help you after you create a detailed hardware list in the PC Specs portion of your forum profile http://forums.tweaktown.com/profile.php?do=editprofile at the bottom of the profile page or in your forum signature http://forums.tweaktown.com/profile....=editsignature.

Can you test with a different power supply?
Your current psu might be failing.
How old is the motherboard battery?

If you boot to windows, see if there are any unusual hot spots in your system, including your psu.
It will help if you run HWMonitor or a similar program that reports temperatures and voltages; this might point to a possible problem.

Did I use the semi-colon correctly?

[GEJ2012]

Re: GA-N650SLI-DS4 barely reaching POST

Clearly not a man of few words.

Sorry, I get like that when I'm excited. Which is probably why my wife often tells me "you don't talk enough...".

We can best help you after you create a detailed hardware list in the PC Specs portion of your forum profile http://forums.tweaktown.com/profile.php?do=editprofile at the bottom of the profile page or in your forum signature http://forums.tweaktown.com/profile....=editsignature.

OK, thanks. I put everything in my profile. The exact drive models are hard to read without removing everything; so I am going by memory there.

Can you test with a different power supply?

I can; but not until Saturday. It's after midnight here; and I like to do that kinda stuff with a bit of daylight.

Your current psu might be failing.

In a twisted way I'm hoping that's the case! PSUs are easy and "cheap" to replace; finding a good replacement mobo is not that easy...

How old is the motherboard battery?

I'm not sure. It's the original battery; that I know. But without having access to my offline email records I can't even tell you how old the mobo is. 4 years, probably. Or even 5. More?

Whatever its age may be it measures 3.15 V. I believe a brand new one is supposed to measure 3.3 Volts, no? If that's the case then the "old" battery hasn't even drained 10 percent of its capacity. But ... I have some, somewhere; and if I can't find them I'll buy a new one tomorrow and see what that does.

That being said: I was reading the post about resetting BIOSes earlier. I have done that before; but I was surprised to see that on some mobos it can take several hours to actually to flush the whole darn thing. So, right now, I have everything disassembled, unplugged, and have a jumper on the CMOS clear pins. I'm going to leave it like that until tomorrow (afternoon probably, because of a shopping trip), then put everything back together and see what happens.

If you boot to windows, see if there are any unusual hot spots in your system, including your psu.
It will help if you run HWMonitor or a similar program that reports temperatures and voltages; this might point to a possible problem.

I'll run anything you want me to run, as soon as I can get a stable Windows session going.

Did I use the semi-colon correctly?

As far as I'm concerned: yes. Don't worry about it too much, though: a long time ago somebody told me "it's not where you put it, but how you use it".

Thanks! I'll report back tomorrow,

Erik

[profJim]

Re: GA-N650SLI-DS4 barely reaching POST

In a twisted way I'm hoping that's the case! PSUs are easy and "cheap" to replace; finding a good replacement mobo is not that easy...

Buying a cheap power supply is the worst thing your can do.
My preference is for power supplies make by Seasonic.
Most Antec, Corsair, Seasonic and XFX psu's are usually highly rated by the top tier web review sites; Jonnyguru, Pcper, HardwareSecrets, HardOCP, and TechPowerUp. There other other excellent power supplies, but they are few and far between. I avoid OCZ and ThermalTake power supplies. There are many name brand power supplies that are mediocre at best. You won't go wrong if you spend a little more and buy a highly rated middle or upper tier psu.

Did you remove the motherboard battery while you're clearing the CMOS?
When you boot your system, enter the bios, load optimized bios defaults, save settings and exit, then boot into the bios again.
You will need to manually re-enter your previous bios settings when you boot your system.
If you have a saved bios profile of your current bios settings, you can load the saved profile.

Your motherboard is probably 5 years old.
HWMonitor and many other programs will display the brand and model name of each connected drive in your system.

If you still have problems after assembling your system, try booting with only two memory modules in slots 1 and 3.

Is your cpu or memory overclocked? If yes, what are the settings?

[GEJ2012]

Re: GA-N650SLI-DS4 barely reaching POST

Hi all, I'm still alive. Can't say the same of my PC...

Buying a cheap power supply is the worst thing your can do.
My preference is for power supplies make by Seasonic.
Most Antec, Corsair, Seasonic and XFX psu's are usually highly rated by the top tier web review sites; Jonnyguru, Pcper, HardwareSecrets, HardOCP, and TechPowerUp. There other other excellent power supplies, but they are few and far between. I avoid OCZ and ThermalTake power supplies. There are many name brand power supplies that are mediocre at best. You won't go wrong if you spend a little more and buy a highly rated middle or upper tier psu.

Let me apologize for my poor choice of words, when I said "cheap". What I meant with that statement is that buying a good power supply is still cheaper than buying a good motherboard. No, I have absolutely no intention of buying a $20 power supply with a bunch of fake certification stickers on the side, that will blow up every bit of hardware in my case, or a peripheral device! The Thermaltake PSU I have got good ratings back in the day when I assembled this PC; but I'll take your word for it: I'm sure things may have changed, when it comes to quality.

So I'm a little late, for a few reasons: the good power supply I have in storage (with a whole, working PC attached to it) turns out not to have the seperate 4 pin connector. No need to try that one, then... So I called a good friend who assembled his own system just last year; but he was out of town for an extended July 4th vacation. Perfect timing, bud, lol! Anyway, he was back on the 5th and I picked up his PC, some 30 miles from here. Oh yeah, I love living in the sticks...

While I was waiting on him to return I did do some experiments, though. I removed every bit of hardware that isn't really needed to run the PC: the 3 PCI cards, the optical drives and the 6 case fans (from way back in the E4500 days). Both HDs are needed to boot into Windows; because even though the big HD is the system drive; the boot partition is located on the smaller drive. Nothing much changed: most of the time the Gigabyte logo didn't even get shown. Other times the machine just hung right after the "verifying DMI pool data". Once or twice I got into Windows, and it would run for hours - letting me do my work! But, the next day, the same problem. Reboot, reset, over and over again.

By the way: I did get new button cells for the CMOS. 3.3V, as they should be. Doesn't seem to make one bit of difference.

So on Thursday I got my buddy's PC, took the PSU out, and moved it to my machine. Not an easy thing to do, because of the huge CPU fan in my case. The 4 pin 12V connector is located right underneath the fan, so the mainboard has to come out first. This PSU is a 650 W Antec, should be MORE than enough power. And it's a little more than a year old, powering a system that needs much less amps than mine.

The results: basically the same. Either a black screen with no beep, or a POST that hangs after the "verifying DMI data" line. On one occasion I managed to boot into Windows, and then I had to scramble to get my work done. Shut it down, and the next day: nothing.

So the next day I decided to take out some of the RAM. I took out 3 modules, only leaving 1 Gig in slot 1, clearing the CMOS while I did that. I powered on and - BEEP! Ran straight into Windows, and was on for many hours. Thinking I was on to something I restarted, once, twice, fine! I even shut down the PC, and next restarted it. Everything worked is expected! (although a tad slow on 1 Gig of RAM).

What happened the next day when I got up? Nothing, nada, zilch. No beep, no POST, not a #$#$# thing...

I took the RAM out and replaced it with 2 sticks (slot 1 and 3) of the RAM that I got after first building the PC. That RAM is identical, but a few years younger. It's been two days now; but I haven't been able to boot into Windows ever since.

I'm not done experimenting yet, no. One of these days, when I have a few hours to spare, I'm going to take everything out again, including CPU, and start from the bottom up. See if that reveals anything. I think it's safe to say the PSU is good. But I'm not too sure about the CPU and RAM. And the mobo. But at least I still have the E4500 CPU, in case it turns out that the E7400 is a goner...

Did you remove the motherboard battery while you're clearing the CMOS?

Yes, I did. The jumper was in place and the battery removed for several hours, most of the time.

When you boot your system, enter the bios, load optimized bios defaults, save settings and exit, then boot into the bios again.

I've done that a few times, when I had the chance; but it doesn't seem to help.

You will need to manually re-enter your previous bios settings when you boot your system.

That too I've done countless times. After which it should boot, but... no.

If you have a saved bios profile of your current bios settings, you can load the saved profile.

I had two saved profiles: one for the E4500 CPU, and one for the E7400 CPU. I managed to select the latter a few times, but both have now disappeared. Seriously corrupted BIOS???

Your motherboard is probably 5 years old.

Sounds about right, yes. We moved to this place in 2005. Shortly after that I had to buildthis system; because the old one got blown away by the static discharge of a lightning bolt that hit accross the road.

HWMonitor and many other programs will display the brand and model name of each connected drive in your system.

I downloaded that and installed it on my PC. I have screen shots but can't get to them right now. Voltages with both PSUs appear to be in the expected range.

If you still have problems after assembling your system, try booting with only two memory modules in slots 1 and 3.

As mentioned earlier: did that - no joy. But Monday or Tuesday I'm going to take the whole thing apart (again) and see if I get any error beeps, just running the board by itself. That oughta be interesting...

Is your cpu or memory overclocked? If yes, what are the settings?

It wasn't at the time this problem first happened. When I first got the 7400 CPU I did experiment with overclocking quite a bit; but after a few irritating crashes I decided to keep it at stock settings. And I was happy, cuz the 7400 by itself was much faster than the 4500.

Thanks for your time, once again,

Erik

[profJim]

Re: GA-N650SLI-DS4 barely reaching POST

At this point, you should remove the motherboard from the case and set it up next to your computer case with the motherboard on top of a cardboard box.
Do NOT place an anti-static bag under the motherboard.

• Check that the cpu heatsink and the large roach motel chipset heatsinks are securely mounted.
• Clean all of the motherboard slots with compressed air.
• Carefully clean the electrical contacts of the video card and memory models using a new pencil eraser or with a lint free cloth that is lightly dampened with denatured alcohol or 91% pure rubbing alcohol.
• Check that the 8-pin and 24-pin power sockets are secure and that the contacts are not damaged.
• Do an overnight cmos clear with the mobo battery removed and with a jumper block on the clear cmos pins.
• Can you borrow another video card to test with?
• You can avoid connecting the hard drives if you test with a bootable floppy or optical drive.
• Try booting with only one memory module installed.
  You might need to try each memory slot, possibly with each of the modules.
• You can test your memory using Memtest86+ - Advanced Memory Diagnostic Tool installed as a bootable floppy, usb, or optical drive.
  The different download versions are near the middle of the web page.

Make detailed notes with each boot test including beep codes, and which screens appear.
You can disable the boot logo in the bios or you can press the TAB key to display boot screen details.
Pressing F12 while booting will let you choose which device to boot from.

[GEJ2012]

Re: GA-N650SLI-DS4 barely reaching POST

Thanks for your suggestions. I will get started later tonight, and let the CMOS clear overnight.

No, I don't have another graphics card, unfortunately.

Just out of curiosity: I understand the benefits of using a cardboard box; but why not an antistatic bag (like the one the motherboard was packaged in)?

Erik

[wazza300]

Re: GA-N650SLI-DS4 barely reaching POST

seemslike a memory issue or psu problem to me

cardboard is a softer surface for your motherboard the soldered pins on the underside would perforate your anti static bag

[GEJ2012]

Re: GA-N650SLI-DS4 barely reaching POST

seemslike a memory issue or psu problem to me

I really hope it's not more than that. Getting four new sticks of RAM would be pricey; but it would still beat finding a good replacement mobo. And I've tried a second PSU by now; but I wouldn't mind having to buy one of those "80+" things.

cardboard is a softer surface for your motherboard the soldered pins on the underside would perforate your anti static bag

Oh, OK, got ya. I've got plenty of anti-static bags (I'm a bit of a kit builder); but yes, cardboard is more forgiving. I've got it sitting on the box it came in, works great.

One more message to reply to, and then I'm going to bed. And so is the mobo, battery removed and jumper in place:



I'll be back tomorrow, if I can find enough time.

Thanks,

Erik

[GEJ2012]

Re: GA-N650SLI-DS4 barely reaching POST

At this point, you should remove the motherboard from the case and set it up next to your computer case with the motherboard on top of a cardboard box.
Do NOT place an anti-static bag under the motherboard.

• Check that the cpu heatsink and the large roach motel chipset heatsinks are securely mounted.
• Clean all of the motherboard slots with compressed air.
• Carefully clean the electrical contacts of the video card and memory models using a new pencil eraser or with a lint free cloth that is lightly dampened with denatured alcohol or 91% pure rubbing alcohol.

Did all of that. I used off the shelf rubbing alcohol, with a lens cleaning cloth. CPU and "roach motel" (I just love that expression!) appear to be in good shape. CPU and its heatsink were removed, cleaned up, and a new coat of Artic Silver applied; and then put back. I also located the old E4500 CPU, just in case I want to try it.

• Check that the 8-pin and 24-pin power sockets are secure and that the contacts are not damaged.

They are secure, and not damaged, as far as I can tell. I'll use my Ohm meter tomorrow to see if everything is still making proper contact. One thing I want to mention is that, on my mobo, half of the 8-pin socket was always blocked by a plastic cover. The manual doens't even mention it; but my 4 pin 12V wire has worked for a good five years now.

• Do an overnight cmos clear with the mobo battery removed and with a jumper block on the clear cmos pins..

That's what I'm doing right now. It's been like that for over an hour; but I'm not touching it until I get home tomorrow afternoon.

• Can you borrow another video card to test with?
• You can avoid connecting the hard drives if you test with a bootable floppy or optical drive.
• Try booting with only one memory module installed.
  You might need to try each memory slot, possibly with each of the modules.
• You can test your memory using Memtest86+ - Advanced Memory Diagnostic Tool installed as a bootable floppy, usb, or optical drive.
  The different download versions are near the middle of the web page.

Make detailed notes with each boot test including beep codes, and which screens appear.
You can disable the boot logo in the bios or you can press the TAB key to display boot screen details.
Pressing F12 while booting will let you choose which device to boot from.

No on the video card. Although I might check Walmart.com to see if they still offer any. Would be faster and cheaper (because of their return policy) than to order and experiment with stuff from, say, NewEgg...

I have downloaded the diskette version of Memtest. I'll run that once I can get to a POST screen.

I'll make detailed notes, yes.Thanks again for your help!

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz now,

Erik

[profJim]

Re: GA-N650SLI-DS4 barely reaching POST

One thing I want to mention is that, on my mobo, half of the 8-pin socket was always blocked by a plastic cover. The manual doens't even mention it; but my 4 pin 12V wire has worked for a good five years now.

The cover is to help protect you from yourself.
The 8-pin socket is keyed so that a 4-pin connector can only be inserted one way correctly. If you used a lot of force, you could insert the 4-pin cable in the wrong position and cause a short circuit. It's best to use the 8-pin psu cable when you are using a higher powered cpu and overclocking. I always use the 8-pin cable even though I have a mid-range cpu.

[GEJ2012]

Re: GA-N650SLI-DS4 barely reaching POST

Heck of a week. Never a solid hour of "me time"! But I'm testing right now. Here's what I have so far.

I labelled all 4 memory sticks with a sharpie; because they all look identical. Labelled them 1, 2, 3 and 4.

I started with stick 1 in slot 1. Of course the video card was installed. Fired it up, it beeped, then the Gigabyte logo showed, and that was it. No POST screen.

Moved that stick to slot 2. No beep, no logo screen, no nothing. Just a tiny crackling sound from the speaker, after a few seconds. Moved it to slot 3 and 4. Same deal: no logo, no POST, crackling sound.

I did the same with sticks 2, 3 and 4, going through all 4 slots. The exact same thing happened, 12 times.

Since I found it hard to believe that all 4 sticks would be bad (I know, not impossible) I fired up the board without any memory installed. This time I was expecting some error beep code as explained in the back of the manual, but I didn't hear any.

Thinking it would sound some error codes without both memory and graphics card I removed that card as well. Again, nothing, not a single beep.

For the second round of tests I repeated all steps above, but this time briefly putting a jumper on the CMOS clear contacts (a few seconds, each time). The results were almost the same: this time I didn't even see the logo screen with stick 1 in slot 1.

All fans are running properly, and every time I powered to PSU down and back up (while swapping RAM) I briefly saw the NIC led flash.

I don't know... I've yet to swap the CPUs; that takes a while with that huge fan. I'd like to run it without the CPU, to see what it does then. Surely it should beep when that's removed!

Ugh. No fun.

Erik

[profJim]

Re: GA-N650SLI-DS4 barely reaching POST

If you still have the stock Intel cpu heatsink, use it and see if that makes a difference.
There might be a problem with your big cpu heatsink installed.
Test with only one monitor connected, preferably with a different video card.
There is a short list of bios beep error codes at the bottom of page 86 in the mobo user manual.
Can you borrow a single ddr2 memory module to test with?
Your case speaker might also be defective.

The dual bios chip setup doesn't always work.
There is a way to copy the backup bios to the main bios while booting, but this is a last resort.
Two of the the main bios chip's connectors need to be carefully connected while booting and there is a possibility that your can brick your motherboard if you accidentally contact a nearby bios chip connector.

Many LGA775 motherboards don't have a rear panel COM connector, but many do have a COM header that can be used with a rear panel COM bracket.

Did you unplug your psu from the wall outlet before removing or installing hardware?

[GEJ2012]

Re: GA-N650SLI-DS4 barely reaching POST

Hi there, back to testing...

If you still have the stock Intel cpu heatsink, use it and see if that makes a difference.
There might be a problem with your big cpu heatsink installed.

I do still have that original fan. Just cleaned it, ready to install, but... see below. I always wondered what that big heatsink and fan would do after X-number of years, all that weight hanging off of the mobo and all...

Test with only one monitor connected, preferably with a different video card.

I just noticed the graphics card in this old PC is a PCI card. I'll be ripping that out in a little while. And the speaker!

There is a short list of bios beep error codes at the bottom of page 86 in the mobo user manual.

Got that with me here, thanks.

Can you borrow a single ddr2 memory module to test with?

Most likely not. I live in a very small TX town, actually not in town itself. I know very few people here.

Your case speaker might also be defective.

I'll find out for sure in a little while.

The dual bios chip setup doesn't always work.
There is a way to copy the backup bios to the main bios while booting, but this is a last resort.
Two of the the main bios chip's connectors need to be carefully connected while booting and there is a possibility that your can brick your motherboard if you accidentally contact a nearby bios chip connector.

I wasn't aware of a way to copy a backup. Interesting. And as a last resort then, yes.

Many LGA775 motherboards don't have a rear panel COM connector, but many do have a COM header that can be used with a rear panel COM bracket.

That would take care of one of my needs then. Also would need FireWire, and other stuff.

Did you unplug your psu from the wall outlet before removing or installing hardware?

Oh yes. And ESD wrist strap.

Anyway. It still doesn't look good. I've got it sitting on my desk now, on the cardboard. I took the big fan off, and removed the CPU. Powered it up; but no beep, no nothing. PSU fans run, LAN led flashes, speaker crackles, but that's it. I was expecting a few beeps with all that necessary hardware removed, but... nope.

More in a few hours, I hope.

Erik

[GEJ2012]

Re: GA-N650SLI-DS4 barely reaching POST

OK... I don't really understand what's going on; but I seem to be making some progress.

I took the PCI graphics card and speaker out of the old PC. Then I remembered that my wife has an old Dell machine stored here, which works except for the fact that its onboard video is horribly distorted, can't really read anything on it. I got curious as to its power supply and RAM. The PSU is nothing big; but it does have a 24 pin MB connecter plus a 4 pin connector. There's a Gig of RAM in that machine; which - according to Dell's online docs - is 667 MHz DDR2. More stuff to test with!

So I hooked up the PSU to my machine. No good. Same with the RAM: one stick, two sticks, no changes. Grrrr. So I took the (Dell) RAM back out and removed the Dell PSU.

Frustrated with the whole deal I decided to take a break and when I got back inside I remembered your comment about the big CPU fan. I had taken the fan and heatsink off earlier; but had left the bolts attached to the mobo. Those things were a pain the put in, and I kinda knew they'd be even worse to remove.

But I removed them; took the backplate off (not easy after all these years, because of the adhesive), then put the E7400 CPU back and installed the stock Intel fan. If I get the thing to behave again I'll leave the stock Intel fan in place; my OC days are over anyway. Hooked it back up to my own PSU. Just for the hell of it I fired it up.

What I heard next was the longest beep I've error heard! DRAM error, according to the manual. Sure, there was no memory on the mobo! I couldn't believe my ears; but this was definitely a step in the right direction, yay!

So I put one stick of RAM in there, in slot 1. Fired it back up, and no long beep this time; instead I heard the long-short-short beeps that indicate a graphics card problem. OK! Then I put back the graphics card (my own PCIE card, not the PCI card from the old PC). I've seen the logo and POST screen three times so far, after restarting. No problems up to this!

I keep getting the "boot disk failure" line; but of course that's very normal, lol!

I'm going to put this thing back together, one piece at a time. Then the 2 other machines I've taken apart in the process. It looks like a small parts depot here...

Anyway, still not sure what happened. And I do hope it keeps working!! If it doesn't... I'll be back.

Thanks,

Erik