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Thread: PSU Wizzards: Adapting a New Fanless ATX PSU to an Old AT Environment - AC Power Switch




  1. #31
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    profJim is online now Chief Munchkin + moderator
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    Default Re: PSU Wizzards: Adapting a New Fanless ATX PSU to an Old AT Environment - AC Power Switch

    Welcome to the confused and bewildered club wardog.

    From Sparkle AT Power Supply 250 Watt SPI-250G

    Key Features
    • 250 Watts
    • Switchable from 110V and 220V
    • Replaces older AT power supplies
    • Common replacement power supply for amusement industry (video games)
    • Common replacement power supply for legacy industrial control platforms
    • Internal ball bearing fan
    • RoHS compliant

    Technical Specs:
    • AT Form factor
    • 6.00" Wide X 3.25" Tall X 5.5 " Deep
    • One AT Power Switch
    • One set of AT style P8 and P9 connectors
    • Three IDE 4 PIN connectors
    • Two Floppy 4 PIN connectors


    Output
    Max. Load
    +5V
    26.0A
    +12V
    9.0A
    -12V
    0.5A
    -5V
    0.5A
    Q9650 @ 4.10GHz [9x456MHz]
    P35-DS4 [rev: 2.0] ~ Bios: F14
    4x2GB OCZ Reaper PC2-8500 1094MHz @5-5-5-15
    MSI N460GTX Hawk Talon Attack (1GB) video card <---- SLI ---->
    Seasonic SS-660XP2 80 Plus Platinum psu (660w)
    WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data)
    Samsung 840 Pro 256GB SSD (boot)
    SLI @ 16/4 works when running HyperSLI
    Cooler Master 120XL Seidon push/pull AIO cpu water cooling
    Cooler Master HAF XB computer case (RC-902XB-KKN1)
    Asus VH242H 24" monitor [1920x1080]
    MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) video card
    Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium
    HT|Omega Claro plus+ sound card
    CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD UPS
    E6300 (R0) @ 3.504GHz [8x438MHz] ~~ P35-DS3L [rev: 1.0] ~ Bios: F9 ~~ 4x2GB Kingston HyperX T1 PC2-8500, 876MHz @4-4-4-10
    Seasonic X650 80+ gold psu (650w) ~~ Xigmatek Balder HDT 1283 cpu cooler ~~ Cooler Master CM 690 case (RC-690-KKN1-GP)
    Samsung 830 128GB SSD MZ-7PC128B/WW (boot) ~~ WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data) ~~ ZM-MFC2 fan controller
    HT|Omega Striker 7.1 sound card ~~ Asus VH242H monitor [1920x1080] ~~ Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium ~~ CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD U.P.S
    .


  2. #32
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    Default Re: PSU Wizzards: Adapting a New Fanless ATX PSU to an Old AT Environment - AC Power Switch

    Quote Originally Posted by bitSync View Post
    …The chassis gets its power from a rackmount Furman power conditioner (actually a series of them), which I believe is equivalent to your proposed 'strips power', so I could manage power to the CPU PSU from a switch external to the chassis (from the Furman power switch). Could it be that simple? Could I set the BIOS power options to boot the machine having sensed loss and restoration of power? Just leave the chassis power on and interrupt the AC power to the chassis using the Furman power conditioner?

    It can't be that easy, right? Just swap in the new ATX PSU and set the BIOS to always power up the PSU on restoration of power? I guess you know what my next test will be...
    Right. It can’t be that easy. Nowhere in my BIOS is a power management selection that will signal the PSU to fire up upon restoration of power. The ‘PWR Lost Resume State’ selection is absent from my machine’s BIOS, just a blank line where that selection ought to be. The ‘Soft-Off by PWR-BTTN’ option above it is also absent.

    I’m not sure why that selection is not available from my BIOS. It may be one of those deals where another setting in the BIOS makes those selections visible. If so, I haven’t found it yet. Is it feasible to replace or update my BIOS to a version that has that feature and would still be compatible with my ancient motherboard?

    Quote Originally Posted by - wardog - View Post
    ...But if the PSU side has a separate externally mounted power plugging into the back(looks as it does, pics aren't that obvious) this too could and probably already is connected to the Furman PDU too.
    The chassis gets all of its power through the Sparkle AT PSU. The Sparkle PSU has the standard grounded 115vac connector on the back like any other CPU PSU and that AC supplies both the Sparkle CPU PSU as well as the Mackie PSUs (by way of going through the Sparkle PSU). The designer just used the stock AT PSU AC switch cabling for the AT PSU AC power switch to route 115vac to a power distribution board for the Mackie power supplies on its way to the power switch on the front of the chassis. So, just the 1 AC plug for the whole works.

    Quote Originally Posted by - wardog - View Post
    Having spent some time perusing the sonido-7 site, your original idea, what I read detailed with "1. Silent Power Supply (By Steve Hammond) is interesting. Nothing like having one of 'em before ones own eyes to visualize it instead of via forum talk. Did you ever PM him for a better understanding/walk through of his "madness' with the Sparkle? It doesn't appear(ha!) too awfully hard, only express caution near electricity.
    You can bet I’ve tried to hunt him down, but no success. The link in the article to PM him leads to Mackie’s original site which is now defunct. I PM’d the guy who runs this newer d8b forum (not affiliated with Mackie) and he also didn’t know where to find him. I might post an inquiry on that forum to see if anybody knows how to get in touch with him.

    Quote Originally Posted by - wardog - View Post
    How is the PSU side "triggered'? That's a q from me.
    The AC switch on the front of the chassis gets AC going for everything. The Switch closes the AC circuit for the Sparkle CPU and because the Sparkle AC power switch wiring stops off at a power distribution PC board for the non-CPU Mackie power supplies, those power supplies share the same AC circuit.

    Just to make things even more spaghetti-like, one of the Mackie non-CPU power supply boards (linear power supply) has a Molex 4-pin connector where it gets +5vdc and +12vdc from the CPU’s AT PSU. This isn’t an especially relevant fact, more of a fun fact; I’m just mentioning it to show how interdependent the designer made the Sparkle CPU PSU and the other non-CPU power supplies in the system design.

    Quote Originally Posted by - wardog - View Post
    And the more I read there at sonido seemingly the more confused and bewildered I become. Steve Hammond in his piece there mentions "the 5V sparkle ps". Why this 5V specific wording? Is that all the computer psu supplies is 5v? I'm guessing it, this 5V psu, also supplies the MB with it's other voltages, right? Meaning the isolated PSU(not CPU, yes, I now recognized the diff) side doesn't supply the MB its req voltages?
    Well, the Sparkle CPU creates +/-5vdc and +/-12vdc. I’m not really sure what the motherboard uses but it uses at least the +5vdc rail. The Mackie DC power supplies do not supply any voltages to the CPU, all those DC voltages go to the mixer control surface to power IC chips, LEDs and fader motors.

    Yes, my head is hurting too...

    I want to track down this BIOS issue. If I can get the BIOS to show me that selection for ‘PWR Lost Resume State’ I’m gonna do the happy wardog dance. This, I believe, would solve a big part of my challenge. If I could wire up the AC power switch in front of the CPU PSU, the AC power switch itself would emulate power loss to the CPU PSU and the BIOS could take care of the rest.
    Subject System d8b: A circa 1999 purpose-built CPU/PSU controller for the Mackie Digital 8 Bus (d8b) digital audio mixer (d8b Database). The CPU/PSU chassis houses both a microprocessor-based contoller system and a number of power supply components that supply various DC voltages to a remotely located audio mixer control surface. Comms between the control surface and the CPU/PSU are by way of a parallel data cable. DC is supplied to the mixer control surface from the CPU/PSU chassis by way of a separate multiconductor cable. CPU/PSU features -

    • Itox CB50-BX motherboard 100 MHz FSB (link)
    • Intel 440BX AGPset chipset
    • Award BIOS v4.51PC - Windows (R) 95/98 Plug and Play Compatible
    • Celeron CPU Socket 370 at 300A MHz
    • 256 MB PC-100 SDRAM (upgraded from as-built 32 MB PC-100 SDRAM)
    • ATI Rage 128 MB AGP video adapter
    • Ethernet card - generic
    • MIDI card - Winman Midiman 1x1 ISA
    • 4 GB Compact Flash in IDE-to-Compact Flash adapter boot drive (upgraded from as-built IDE Maxtor 20 GB HDD)
    • 1.44 MB Floppy Drive
    • 1 AGP slot, 3 PCI slots, 1 16-bit ISA slot, 1 shared ISA/PCI slot
    • PSU - Sparkle SPI-250G 250 watt AT with front panel AC switching (link)
    • OS - custom realtime OS wrapped around a Win98 kernel (i.e., Windows is not accessible)

  3. #33
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    Default Re: PSU Wizzards: Adapting a New Fanless ATX PSU to an Old AT Environment - AC Power Switch

    Quote Originally Posted by bitSync View Post
    Is it feasible to replace or update my BIOS to a version that has that feature and would still be compatible with my ancient motherboard?
    Feasible sure. Recommended, NO! At least not until you were to pass it by one of the fellows in the sonido forum that knows more than I(you!) would solely care to be responsible for should it go all oblong afterwards. At this point I consider THAT question one belonging to "If you have to ask, then (finish with any wise adult words and or phrase)"

    Quote Originally Posted by bitSync View Post
    You can bet I’ve tried to hunt him down, but no success. The link in the article to PM him leads to Mackie’s original site which is now defunct. I PM’d the guy who runs this newer d8b forum (not affiliated with Mackie) and he also didn’t know where to find him. I might post an inquiry on that forum to see if anybody knows how to get in touch with him.
    Or post inquiring of possibly one of the current Users that might have contacted him previously and yet has the info and pics. Did you try Googling his name?

    Or, heh, at this point maybe even tried Whitepages . com in hunting him down? That's dastardly, but hard times calls for ....

    I'll do some digging here with the resources I have at hand too.

    The happy wardog dance. Heh, good luck with that. Let it be known I am all feet when it comes to dancing. A word to the wise, have medical professionals on site before attempting that.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: PSU Wizzards: Adapting a New Fanless ATX PSU to an Old AT Environment - AC Power Switch

    Quote Originally Posted by bitSync View Post
    Just to make things even more spaghetti-like,
    Is that possible? Check back with me in two or three years. Maybe by then I'll finally have have my head around the info within that last post of yours.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: PSU Wizzards: Adapting a New Fanless ATX PSU to an Old AT Environment - AC Power Switch

    Major hurdle overcome. I found out how to get the absentee power management functions to appear in the BIOS, just boot the thing with an ATX PSU rather than an AT PSU. There's a fairly descriptive post here, but I've determined that I can do wardog's power strip approach using the BIOS's 'PWR Lost Resume State' = 'Turn on' and fabulousness happens. Still wondering about routing 115vac using the unit's front panel rocker switch. Worst case is I can switch power to the unit externally.

    I'm not sure but this thread may have just about run its course to a very happy conclusion (dancing is optional). I'm very grateful to everyone who pitched in. Thank you for your great ideas, information and assistance. Very cool board you have here.
    Subject System d8b: A circa 1999 purpose-built CPU/PSU controller for the Mackie Digital 8 Bus (d8b) digital audio mixer (d8b Database). The CPU/PSU chassis houses both a microprocessor-based contoller system and a number of power supply components that supply various DC voltages to a remotely located audio mixer control surface. Comms between the control surface and the CPU/PSU are by way of a parallel data cable. DC is supplied to the mixer control surface from the CPU/PSU chassis by way of a separate multiconductor cable. CPU/PSU features -

    • Itox CB50-BX motherboard 100 MHz FSB (link)
    • Intel 440BX AGPset chipset
    • Award BIOS v4.51PC - Windows (R) 95/98 Plug and Play Compatible
    • Celeron CPU Socket 370 at 300A MHz
    • 256 MB PC-100 SDRAM (upgraded from as-built 32 MB PC-100 SDRAM)
    • ATI Rage 128 MB AGP video adapter
    • Ethernet card - generic
    • MIDI card - Winman Midiman 1x1 ISA
    • 4 GB Compact Flash in IDE-to-Compact Flash adapter boot drive (upgraded from as-built IDE Maxtor 20 GB HDD)
    • 1.44 MB Floppy Drive
    • 1 AGP slot, 3 PCI slots, 1 16-bit ISA slot, 1 shared ISA/PCI slot
    • PSU - Sparkle SPI-250G 250 watt AT with front panel AC switching (link)
    • OS - custom realtime OS wrapped around a Win98 kernel (i.e., Windows is not accessible)

  6. #36
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    Default Re: PSU Wizzards: Adapting a New Fanless ATX PSU to an Old AT Environment - AC Power Switch

    Quote Originally Posted by bitSync View Post
    I found out how to get the absentee power management functions to appear in the BIOS, just boot the thing with an ATX PSU rather than an AT PSU.
    The thought didn't even occur to me till just now in your last post. And then I'm reminded of it yet again when I look back up to the Sparkle specs profJim posted.

    ATX has +5vSB. SB meaning Stand By. Which now makes sense that those BIOS options were/will be non-selectable until seeing said voltage present.

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