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Anonymous
02-14-2002, 08:10 AM
Here you can discuss this article which was posted on TweakTown!

Bahamut Zer0
02-14-2002, 11:00 AM
I have a 60GXP 40gig

Cant say i didnt know the problems with them, but back when i got it i was told they arent as serious as the 75gxp models. anyway, as soon as i get home,,, my 2 80mm fans shall be cooling me hdd asap.

ah crap, 'cuse the spelliong and repeated wordss. vnc'ing from linux to a windows box and everything is laggy

sorry to hear of your loss mr tweak. hopefuuly same wont happen to mine. Beinngg a glass platter model im hoping it wont

Anonymous
02-14-2002, 11:02 AM
I recommend everyone do just that!

sKuLLsHoT
02-14-2002, 11:33 AM
as i said to wilmot, my drive ran flawllessly (45Gb 75gxp) for over a year, sitting behind 2x80mm fans...

what killed it u ask? 2 hours in standard desktop case. nuff said.

i think the fact it can fall over at any time is most annoying, as i was using smart monitoring software on the drives and all (meant to detect drive errors before they go critical) and it still got me by surprise, i think this just highlights the importance of a true backup system.

Wiggo
02-14-2002, 12:13 PM
A very good article there Tweak. :thumb:
:beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

Anonymous
02-14-2002, 12:21 PM
Thanks Wiggo - Glad you enjoyed it. :)

Anonymous
02-14-2002, 12:35 PM
In case you missed it, here is the link:

http://www.tweaktown.com/document.php?dType=article&dId=180

Acid
02-14-2002, 12:46 PM
great article cam, I sure found it interesting :)

Dlab
02-14-2002, 02:54 PM
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Excellent article. The cooling issue has been a key point when ever i'm tt someone about HD's wether or not in Rd. I started with HD fans on all the HD we build in to any rig, and recently got to mounting all hard drives behind the front case fans. For those people that don't have full 3.5 hidden drive cage cases, I recommend the Evercase hd cage accessory.

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=manufactory&catalog=98&manufactory=1470&DEPA=1

They maybe calling it a HD bracket? Anyway, it's a cheap, neat solution. fyi,:beer:

Andy
02-14-2002, 05:04 PM
good article tweak

my 60 gig 60gxp still died even tho i have a have very good cooling on it ( a review of it here (http://www.overclockers.com.au/techstuff/r_hdd_c1/page2.shtml) over at ocau )

avplat
02-14-2002, 06:14 PM
It seems to me that the problem of IBM drives is HIGHLY exaggerated. Contact the companies which service IBM drives and ask for statistics. I have seen such statistics and they show that IBM drives (including 75GXP) are one of the most reliable! The return rate is around 3-4%. E.g. return rate for some of WD drives is as much as 10%, but nobody cries out about problems with WD drives!

I suppose, this is the answer why IBM does not react anyhow to the "problems" with their drives - they know the statistics that their drives are in fact better.

Albinus
02-14-2002, 06:39 PM
You will actually find all manufacturers have return rates of less than 3%. I have tried over the past 5 years all brands of hard drives, and the only brand which has not failed on me is Western Digital. Even when Western Digital realised they had drives that would fail (due to a faulty semiconductor provided by a 3rd party), they RECALLED them - IBM seems to be standing in a corner with their fingers in their ears pretending not to listen.

My main supplier has almost totally stopped selling IBM drives due to the absurdly high failure rate. And recently, my college purchased 40 WD drives and 40 IBM - after 6 months about 50% of the IBM drives have gone bad as opposed to only 2 WD drives (students aren't always the most careful around hardware) ;)

So the article is warranted - it's a big problem :shoot2:

avplat
02-14-2002, 07:36 PM
Please do look here: http://www.almer.ru/information/news.htm#1611. This page is in Russian, but you can see model numbers and the corresponding failure rate. This information was collected during almost 2 years. The average failure rate is around 3%, failure rate for 75GXP is a bit higher - 3.9%, failure rate for 60GXP is very low - 1.8%.

I am sorry for incorrect information about WD - high figures were for Seagate (WD not present). But I have information about WD drives directly from people who service them, and they do not recommend WD because they are unreliable.

The "problem" with 75GXP drives is easily explainable. The drives were very popular, and when millions are sold, even 3-4% failure rate gives a considerable number of enraged customers, who had some problems.

Darthtanion
02-14-2002, 08:10 PM
That sounds startlingly like the comments made from Big Blue themselves not too long ago. :hmph:

I have found that when a problem like this crops up within the tech community, then it is warranted. Not that the tech community is perfect, but we buy enough of the high-end products to know first hand whether or not the stories are true.

I, myself am getting ready to delve into a 60GXP drive to determine whether or not it has died. I am currently running on a backup drive (non-IBM) and can only hope that the data on the Deskstar is recoverable... and I have had cooling on mine since the day it was installed.

I am thinking that it may be time to investigate the Seagate Barracuda drives for a while. IBM normally has a decent product, but when they take a stance of ignoring this problem, then maybe it's time to take my business elsewhere. Remember the Kenwood True-X drives? :shoot2:

Anonymous
02-14-2002, 11:16 PM
My 75GXP lasted almost a year, but last week died. Clicks of death are the only thing left, it can do. I guess I'll RMA it back to IBM. Thanks for the info.

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 12:36 AM
Your article was nothing but supposition; your claims are not backed by facts. You come off sounding like a teenager. Are you?

Not that there's anything wrong with that...however, I can't take your website seriously if this is the kind of stuff you're going to publish.

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 01:17 AM
just read the article referring to excessive heat as a possible cause of ibm's drive failures. It recommended extra cooling as a solution. my experience is that more cooling made no difference. I had my drives mounted directly in front of an inblowing 60cm fan & they still failed.

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 01:40 AM
I have now received the third (!) IBM 60GXP within 6 month. I have also mounted the drive behind 2 fans. When I check the temparature with IBM tool, it shows about 30-32°C which is normal.

The first drive have begun to have read problems - I had to reinstall Windows 2000 several times because it couldn't read portions of the harddisk.

The second disk has stoped working after 2 weeks - dead!

Now, I've installed the 3 one - it's quite a new one (Released January 2002 in Thailand).

The other ones were from the Philipines - I think.

Hope IBM has fixed the problem now.

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 02:51 AM
Does anyone know if the new 120GXP's are experiencing any problems?

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 03:09 AM
Hi,

I was wondering whether anyone had hear of any problems with the new 120GXP models?

Thanks,
Robert

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 03:18 AM
First: the DTLA (40GV/75GXP) firmware is buggy and causes the abnormally high failure
rates. A new firmware A5AA/A6AA is available at http://www.geocities.com/dtla_update

Second: There was a story of a clicking 120 GXP in comp.sys.ibm.pchardware.storage, so
the problem with the IBM drives seem not to be solved.
http://groups.google.de/groups?q=clicking+120gxp

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 03:46 AM
I have heard that my 120GXP drive emits a strange clicking sound under heavy load, although I don't know if it is the “Click of Death” only time will tell ;)

RDR
02-15-2002, 04:23 AM
Heat can be a concern with all 7200rpm drives

I've rma'd 5 Maxtor ATA100 7200rpm drives in the last 4 months - all less than a year old - & there is another one that is about to go
RAID & applications with a lot of swapping speed up the failure (obviously)

Last month I moved the HD on every PC here, that has a 72K rpm drive, to a 5.25" bay and put in bay cooler.

Warrenty or not failed a hard drives is not worth the head ache
:knife:

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 04:30 AM
//Warning! Some one's got a soap box, and he is going to use it...//

All the time I keep hearing about these drives failing. For some several within a few months will die.

My own experiance is quite different. Where I work we've been selling the 75GXP since the day it was released. Switched to the 60GXP as soon as our supplier had them in stock. And now all IDE drives we sell are either the 120GXP or the Samsung Spinpoint if it's to be a quiet machine, or there is extremely (as in none at all) cooling.

From the introduction of the 75GXP we must have sold more than 400 IBM IDE drives. So far we've had one (1) drive that's dead, and one that has shown symtoms of being afflicted...

One thing that is interesting is that we newer sell just the bare drives. All drives sold has been installed in a machine, most often a server. We have a small team of techs of whom none has been in the bussiness for less than 10 years. And all chassis we use are high quality chassis from well known manufacturers such as Chenming and Paloalto Design Group, or special designs that's built to order by Taiwanese manufacturers.

Our customers are not the kind that would fail to mention a hard drive failure. So I'm pretty sure those two are the only failures so far.

Now, how much of this is pure luck? Statistically we should have a large number of these drives fail. It could still happen, and if so, we will have a problem on our hands.

But could there be some other factor at play. Cooling was one that struck me as likely. But it could also have some thing to do with the way the drives are handled, both by the enduser, but perhaps also during transportation and handling in the warehouse and at the factory.

If one of the major factors turn out to be the handling at the plant, and during transport and disribution, then we are back at the "Pure Luck" (tm) stage. [8P

Are there anyone else that has had good experiences of these drives? If I'm the only one, then the "PureLuck"(tm) theory gains ground, and I should put some of the other techs in charge of minding the phone. I can't take verbal abuse... ;)

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 05:14 AM
I bought two 40Gb 60GXP's for use in a RAID. The RAID failed after about a month. BUT... I am almost positive that it wasn't because of the hard drives. There was an issue with the Highpoint RAID controller on my Abit motherboard. I flashed a new BIOS and tried it again and this time there were no RAID failures.

Since then, I have decided to forgo the RAID option; partly because I needed more space and partly because I failed to see a real speed increase. I have one of the drives in my home PC, which operates 24/7, and it is even enclosed in a Molex Silent Drive!! How about that? Not only is the drive always on, it is completely encased in a soundproof enclosure! So far, it has been running solid for about two months. I haven't had any failures yet, but these articles and posts make me nervous!

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 06:13 AM
I think my 75GXP has just fallen to this: it starts makeing a loud "CHH CHH CHH" when I read from certain parts of the disk. Worked great for about a year and a half until just this past weekend.

It was an OEM drive, but I heard that all IBM drive have a 3 year warranty. Anyone know for sure, and who would I contact to go about getting an RMA?

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 06:20 AM
Sorry folks but the soapbox tends to spew a lot of negativity when one person has a gripe on a well built product.

This sounds to me more like a case of a disgruntled customer who did not get what he wanted and is trying to tarnish an otherwise impeccable name. I've been in the computer industry for over 15 years and it seems the industry is filled with people who, no matter how hard you try, you can never satisfy. This to me seems like a clear cut case of one person getting calling out IBM to cater to his needs. I'm willing to bet the farm if anyone were to check with IBM and their records, they would see countless calls by this individual who made outrageous demands well outside the realm of customer satsifaction.

Let's take a look at Anandtech's report on the IBM Deskstar 75GXP Ultra ATA 100 Hard Drive.

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.html?i=1287&p=15

And their quote on their own temperature testings:

The IBM 75 GXP is one of the coolest drives we have tested under our new temperature testing methodology. While this is only the third drive we have tested that has included temperature data, we think the low figures here represent the kind of quality that IBM engineered into this drive.


I think it's only fair to give the drive an honest estimation rather than a biased opinion.

This post was not intended as a flame but a representation of what goes on in the world behind the products we take for granted.

Wiggo
02-15-2002, 07:05 AM
The strange thing is that a lot of major tech sites around the world are reporting a lot of failures with these drives and if they were so good why then is there a large class action being taken against IBM over these drives if there are no problems ?
Sorry but from what I've read and heard from others certainly has me worried about the reliability of these drives especially when it's coming from people who know how to handle these drives.
Several local vendors around me have stopped carrying these drives as they say they are more trouble than they're worth. :smokin:
<center>:cheers:</center>

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 08:16 AM
I was going to buy a 15 or 30 gig IBM 75 gxp series but once i read all the failures on them and took the time to do a lot of research i brought a Maxtor HD instead and i am thinking i did a good thing. I wanted the IBM because they are fast but i rather have a stable HD. #1 is stability but i do know you should always backup because HDs do not last forever. So far my Maxtor has been running for 6 to 11 months +

But does not really matter anymore about IBM because i am not ever going to buy one even if i never owned one. Plus WD 1200JB with 8 mb of cache is the fastest IDE HD. It is faster than the IBM 120 gxp series. Plus the WD 1200JB with 8 mb of cache only runs at 22C in use. Has three platters too. While the IBM 120 gxp 80 gig runs at 48C in use and is only 2 platters. Sorry but thats way too hot in my book. I would use cooling for it but i have a feeling not even that would help that 48C running HD much.

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 08:18 AM
Also the dum IBM 120 gxp series HDs by IBM are only recommended to run for 333 hours a month. If you do not believe me just go look at the .pdf file at IBM :)

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 08:28 AM
Seems to me there have been rumors of these problems for years, and if you were really concerned you wouldn't have bought from IBM in the first place. Seems to me like you needed some attention so you purposefully bought a drive you hoped would fail so you could complain about it and tell your cry baby story to all those who would listen. Tell your sob stories to someone who gives a damn and if you don't want to trash your harddrives then stop making them the storage for 100 user warez ftps, whose access thrashing kills the drive in such a short time, biotch.

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 08:32 AM
I'm running 9 GXP drives some 40 gigs, 60 gigs, and 75 gigs. Most of them are running 24/7 and have had no problems.

I built two systems for my radio stations, an AM and an FM for music on hard drive. They are Win 2000 systems with the in studio software used to play the music and commercials on air, and over 5000 audio files compressed with MPEG 2 compression. Each of these systems have one 40 gig and one 60 gig drive and have been running for 24/7 for over a year without a problem.

One of the 75 gigs is in my personal computer at home, my fragger! One is installed in the system I built for the digital production computer we us to produce commercials. Both of these are over a year old as well and no problems. (I'm knocking on wood)

All these drives are well cooled mounted with one space between them in quality cases with front of case fans blowing directly on them. I am using good quality stable power supplies. I don't use the same power cables from the power supply for the hard drives that attach to the case fans. Each drive is set up as master and attached to it's own ATA 100 IDE port.

I can't tell you for a fact that the above is why they haven't failed, mabe it's just the luck of the draw, but I've removed some possibiltys for failure.

If you stick any 7200 rpm hard drive in a desktop case with the only cooling being the exsaust fan from your $29.99 power supply and slave it of the drive you just mounted it on top of there is a high probability of a short life span. Of course no one here would ever do that.

Djava

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 08:35 AM
I do not run no sever on my HD. All i use my HD for is gaming, downloading game demos, and storing douments. Thats all too. So i do not stress out my HDs. *I never owned a IBM HD btw.*
Never will and never want to. WD1200JB is faster anyway.

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 08:37 AM
Plus WD, Maxtor, etc HD brands do not have that dum 333 hours per a month recommened like IBM 120 gxp HDs have now. I have a feeling that IBM is trying you to get to buy SCSI if you want to leave your HD on for very long hours.

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 09:18 AM
Your article was nothing but supposition; your claims are not backed by facts. You come off sounding like a teenager. Are you?

Not that there's anything wrong with that...however, I can't take your website seriously if this is the kind of stuff you're going to publish.

Before you open your mouth, or in this case start typing, please ensure you get your facts correct. At the start of the article in the introduction I say the following;

"Read on as this non-technical article will explain the problems being experienced and I suggest possible reasons and solutions for this – I’d like to emphasis that these are only beliefs of mine and we do not have the industrial equipment available to confirm any of this."

And yes, I'm 18 years old. Anand from AnandTech is 19/20 - Maybe it's time for you to start bagging Anand also because of his age.

:thumbs do

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 09:20 AM
Does anyone know if the new 120GXP's are experiencing any problems?

I haven't been able to test any as yet so I don't know.

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 09:23 AM
Also the dum IBM 120 gxp series HDs by IBM are only recommended to run for 333 hours a month. If you do not believe me just go look at the .pdf file at IBM :)

That would make sense, that is about as long as mine lasted without cooling.

My inbox has been totally swamped with emails, but here is POSSIBLY another reason for the problem...

I thought I would add a comment for you. I work in
the IS group for a hard drive manufacturer (Not IBM,
but I should not say who). While I am not directly
involved with hard drive building and repairing, I
have heard some information about some chip issues we
have been experiencing on some drives. Apparently
there is a Cirrus Logic chip on many boards of various
manufacturers. There was a flaw in a bunch of the
Cirrus Logic chips that has since been fixed but was
plaguing them for awhile. The flaw would cause a hard
drive to stop working properly after about 5,000 hours
of run time. I don't have the whole scientific
expanation for it, but some sort of coating on the
Cirrus Logic chip breaks down and basically the chip
shorts itself out. It has been fixed, but I am sure
there are number of them out there. I don't know if
IBM used the Cirrus Logic chips, but a lot of
companies do. I don't know if this would be the
problem in the IBM's or not.

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 09:29 AM
ROTFLMAO!!! You have a far long way to go B4 you post anything like this crappy comic on the web, simple a wasting of everyone's precious time.

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 09:29 AM
Sorry folks but the soapbox tends to spew a lot of negativity when one person has a gripe on a well built product.

This sounds to me more like a case of a disgruntled customer who did not get what he wanted and is trying to tarnish an otherwise impeccable name. I've been in the computer industry for over 15 years and it seems the industry is filled with people who, no matter how hard you try, you can never satisfy. This to me seems like a clear cut case of one person getting calling out IBM to cater to his needs.

This post was not intended as a flame but a representation of what goes on in the world behind the products we take for granted.

Fair enough. I can understand why you may think this. But from the way I wrote the article, doesn't it honestly sound like I had a serious attitude problem towards IBM? I wrote purely to increase the awareness of these drives and offer possible solutions to help other people from becoming victims.

Sure we may take these products for granted, but when so many people have been expericing problems, something needs to be done by IBM to cure these problems.

: peace:

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 09:30 AM
ROTFLMAO!!! You have a far long way to go B4 you post anything like this crappy comic on the web, simple a wasting of everyone's precious time.

Bye! :wave:

Bort
02-15-2002, 09:34 AM
Hello all, I'm back, visiting from OCAU. I just read your article on these drives and it was quite informative. I am running a 45G 75GXP that was installed around 11 months ago. I also put an Ultimate Hard Drive Cooler on it: I believe Vantec sell these but I bought one with a generic pack and it was only $25 or so. No problems with my drive so far, fingers crossed :D

I just love all these smileys
:cheers: :beer: :clap:

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 09:35 AM
Seems to me there have been rumors of these problems for years, and if you were really concerned you wouldn't have bought from IBM in the first place. Seems to me like you needed some attention so you purposefully bought a drive you hoped would fail so you could complain about it and tell your cry baby story to all those who would listen. Tell your sob stories to someone who gives a damn and if you don't want to trash your harddrives then stop making them the storage for 100 user warez ftps, whose access thrashing kills the drive in such a short time, biotch.

MATE - If I wanted the attention and was an dishonest person - I would have just faked the hard disk drive had a problem, hell I wouldn't even had to even used one. Wake up to yourself...

This however was not the case. You post started off in a way which I was almost certain it would hold some creditbility, honestly I don't even know why I'm wasting my time responding. A "sob story" it may seem, to me I feel I did the community a favour by letting them know. In no way whatsoever was this a personal attack against IBM.

:zzz:

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 09:36 AM
Hello all, I'm back, visiting from OCAU. I just read your article on these drives and it was quite informative. I am running a 45G 75GXP that was installed around 11 months ago. I also put an Ultimate Hard Drive Cooler on it: I believe Vantec sell these but I bought one with a generic pack and it was only or so. No problems with my drive so far, fingers crossed :D

I just love all these smileys
:cheers: :beer: :clap:

HI Bort, welcome to the crazy house, or so it seems... :)

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 09:37 AM
Plus WD, Maxtor, etc HD brands do not have that dum 333 hours per a month recommened like IBM 120 gxp HDs have now. I have a feeling that IBM is trying you to get to buy SCSI if you want to leave your HD on for very long hours.

Sorry, that makes no sense. In the mean time what happens to the desktop sector? They loose their name totally and IBM don't even worry about protecting their market leading name? :rolleyes:

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 09:39 AM
My 75GXP lasted almost a year, but last week died. Clicks of death are the only thing left, it can do. I guess I'll RMA it back to IBM. Thanks for the info.

Glad I could be of assistance.

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 09:41 AM
I was just thinking of why IBM would recommend only 333 hours. But i think i may be wrong. But i think your little article was a good warning because you are not the only one who has had problems. Other well known sites have had problems too with IBM HDs. I for one will never even think about buying a IBM HD.

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 09:41 AM
I think my 75GXP has just fallen to this: it starts makeing a loud "CHH CHH CHH" when I read from certain parts of the disk. Worked great for about a year and a half until just this past weekend.

It was an OEM drive, but I heard that all IBM drive have a 3 year warranty. Anyone know for sure, and who would I contact to go about getting an RMA?

What country are you from?

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 09:42 AM
I was just thinking of why IBM would recommend only 333 hours. But i think i may be wrong. But i think your little article was a good warning because you are not the only one who has had problems. Other well known sites have had problems too with IBM HDs. I for one will never even think about buying a IBM HD.

Thanks - This is exactly what I tried to do.

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 09:43 AM
Also i do not think being 18 has anything to do with this topic. I do not care if you were 40 ,50, or even 80. You can be any age now a days a know a lot about computers.

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 09:46 AM
Plus Maxtor and WD RMA policy is better than IBM's RMA policy. Maxtor i know you can get a new HD within 2 days if not less. IBM you will be lucky if you get a new HD back in a week. But most of the time for getting a new IBM HD it takes 15 to 30 days +. Sometimes 2 months or more. Thats just another thing IBM is known for.

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 09:51 AM
Also i do not think being 18 has anything to do with this topic. I do not care if you were 40 ,50, or even 80. You can be any age now a days a know a lot about computers.

I couldn't agree with you more - I was only addressing the concern of a previous post.

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 09:56 AM
Ok. But thanks for the great article. Was very well appreicated. I know it takes time to build a good website like this a keep it maintained everyday.

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 10:04 AM
Ok. But thanks for the great article. Was very well appreicated. I know it takes time to build a good website like this a keep it maintained everyday.

You deserve a medal, finally some appreciation.

: peace:

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 10:06 AM
You Are Very Welcome. I know you do not have to run this site and have to do these articles but you choose to so you can help people.

BUhockey13
02-15-2002, 10:12 AM
I've been running into bad blocks on my IBM 75GXP 30.0G... I've fdisked it abunch of times over about 12 months and now I'm doing a scandisk (with surface scan) about once a week ... just to be safe....

I have no cooling for my HDD but MBM5 says my CPU is 37C (I have 2 80mm deltas cooling my case).... should I concider a WD to transfer the data to? I'm a bit worried.... can I RMA this? hasn't failed .... yet....... :confused:

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 10:17 AM
I've been running into bad blocks on my IBM 75GXP 30.0G... I've fdisked it abunch of times over about 12 months and now I'm doing a scandisk (with surface scan) about once a week ... just to be safe....

I have no cooling for my HDD but MBM5 says my CPU is 37C (I have 2 80mm deltas cooling my case).... should I concider a WD to transfer the data to? I'm a bit worried.... can I RMA this? hasn't failed .... yet....... :confused:

Contact your nearest IBM dealer and see what they say.

sKuLLsHoT
02-15-2002, 11:04 AM
i'd recommend keeping a reliable backup of all critical data, but this goes without saying for all drives, as mentioned earlier, no drive lasts forever...

the comment tweak got regarding the Cirrus chips sounds like it may well have been the very source of the problem, as from memory, the IBM drives do use Cirrus chip technology, so as far as IBM having to fix it, it really could have been the fault of a thrid party chip manufacturer...

nice note to add though...

also there was mention of drive temperatures being coolest in ibm, from my recollection, the temps recorded from the drive are internal operating temperatures, and my IBM drive that died, was kept at around 20 idle up to 30-35 heavy load, as i used 2x80mm fans to keep it cool... the real heat problem - as the cirrus chip scenario may point to - is the heat of the control circuit; which is external to the monitoring of the drive temperature. take a heavily loaded IC add 20 degrees induced by the adjacent drive platter's heat, and u know that those chips are gunna be warm...

and as we all know, life of any electrical component is shortened when it runs hotter - hence we buy 20kg HSFs with 7k fans that pump out 48dBa of noise for our cpu's, coz we don't want em to just...die...or fry rather...

Massemannen
02-15-2002, 03:14 PM
What´s that clicking sound? I have 2 GXP drives and after I installed my latest 60Gb I´ve discovered that when I´m about too close down the computer it´s almost like it restarts and power up the disc 3 times? Is this the famous clicking sound?
I can´t afford too buy a backup disc now :(

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 03:33 PM
The clicking sound sounds more like *tick...tick...tick....tick...tick*

Andy
02-15-2002, 03:41 PM
*remembers back to first 60gxp tick tick ticking**shudder*

robertku
02-15-2002, 04:49 PM
I purchased a 30.7GB IBM Deskstar drive in Feb 2001 and have been running it quite happily in my Windows 2000 box with NTFS partitions with no problems whatsoever.

For the last 3 months my computer has been constantly on, with the case open, until last week.

Got home and heard a strange clicking noise coming from my home office, I'll give you one guess what happened.

What can I do? any ideas?

Took the drive to the computer shop, they connected it as a slave drive on a Windows 98 machine and it is very well behaved, even though they could not see the NTFS partitions, computer shop staff thought I was lying.

DigitalDD
02-15-2002, 09:04 PM
As far as this thread goes, I've never understood all the hoopla over the GXP series. I work for a company who buys nothing but Western Digital drives for all our offices PCs [these are company built computers for each office and theres over 700 of them out there] I return about 3-5 drives a month to WD. Not great but not bad considering the abuse they take.

Now as far as the systems I buld for myself/friends/associates I only use IBM drives and always the GXP series [funny thing is I've never used any of the multi-platter models] 15 gig 75GXP's or 20 gig 60GXP's only so far. Not one of these has died on me or anyone I've put a system together for.

I've only used about 30 GXP drives though, but the single platter thing has got to have something to do with it I think. As since every article I've read on the subject says that multi-platter drives give off more heat than single platter drives I'm sure a few other people might agree.

Note: I don't use rounded cables but i do tend to fold my ribbon cables to improve airflow in the case, I aslo tend to place fans only where they are needed instead of putting in fans everywhere blowing in various directions. IMHO this is the biggest problem a lot of overclockers have they know to add fans but don't take the time to consider where the fans should go in the case.

:geek: :sun: :glasses2: : peace2:

BUhockey13
02-15-2002, 10:18 PM
DigitalDD,
You mention you use ribbon over round cables...... I use rounded cables in my case.....

you think this might attribute to the bad blocks appearing on my IBM Deskstar 75GXP 30.0G drive?

Thanks

Anonymous
02-15-2002, 11:43 PM
While on the subject of RMA's





What country are you from?


The US

Synetech
02-16-2002, 06:41 AM
Well, I might as well throw my hat in the mix... First the objective info, then the subjective info. :)


1. As Wiggo briefly mentioned, there is in fact a class action law suit against IBM in California stating that IBM falsely represented the GXP75 as being a reliable drive. You can join it at http://www.sheller.com/ibmclassaction.htm (that's a case I wish I could have had :)

2. I think it would be worth differentiating between the sounds a hard drive makes. There are:
i. the spin up which is a whirring that goes up in pitch. It SHOULD only occur when you first boot and when you come out of a power save mode
ii. the constant soft whir that accompanies platter rotation
iiia. small, quick ticks that accompany reads/writes
iiib. larger, quick, repeated ticks that accompany thrashing. Thrashing just means A LOT of fast/repeated reading/writing
iv. larger, longer, repeated ticks that accompany failed reads/writes. This usually occurs when a hard drives platters get messed up, like when a head crash occurs and scratches the disk. Sounds like a tick-tock where the tock is shorter than the tick
v. noticable, louder sudden clicks [clacks?] which indicate the head moving/resetting. These sound like the arm is slamming itself against the drive wall. (This can also occur in CD drives, CDRWs, etc.! Although, with CD drives, the head really IS slamming against the wall!?!)

3. It may be difficult to distinguish between type iii noises and type iv noises. Sometimes you hear what sounds like a type iv noise but upon investigation it turns out to be a type iii noise. Type iv noises can be normal if your system is just doing a bunch of quick small reads/writes rather than trying the same read/write over and over because of a failiure. A good way to determine whether the noise is a type iii noise or a type iv noise is to use a disk access monitor. You can see what program is accessing the disk (and for what reason, file, type of access, mode, etc.). You can watch it going and cross reference it with the noises that you are listening to at the same time to figure out if it's normal or if your hard drive is crapping out.

4. This forum may sound distressing seeing that so many people are complaining about problems with their drives but you should keep something in mind. Similarly to the pschological communities distaste for anecdotal evidence and subject selection bias, the large number of complaints in places like this should not be taken as evidence that there is indeed something wrong with the item (although in this case there may be, I'm speaking about other things and in general). You can expect most of the people who post here to complain since most of them probably came to this forum after reading the article, and most of the people who read the article likely chose to read the article because the heading caught their attention because they had problems with their drives. People who are happy with their drives probably do not bother reading the article and end up not coming to the forum and posting. Another way to look at it is to say that if 10% of all GXP drives have problems, then of those 10%, 9.5% of them somehow end up in this forum and of course post complaints. So if you see a lot of people in one place complaining about a piece of hard/software that you have (or anything else for that matter) don't panic, it may not be a problem with it, it may just be that you've found a high density cluster of people how happened to end up with the problem, after all; birds of a feather...

5. Personally speaking I liked my 20.5 gig GXP IBM drive because it was surprisingly stable and solid when I got it 2 years ago. I'm not sure how, but I can get a sense of the solidness of a drive. (I'll have to pay attention next time to see what it is that I'm [unintentionally] noticing). I have found that Maxtor drives are pretty good but are far from solid, they give a sense of extreme fragility. WD drives on the other hand feel very solid and safe. The same goes for IBM drives. This mainly goes for the drives I have had experience with and may [will] not hold for all drives from those manfs.

6. I have had no problems with my GXP 20.5Gb drive since I got it and have felt very comfortable with it. However recently (Thursday 7th), I have gotten a few type v (see table above) noises from it. I shut down my system as soon as possible after that. Over the next 30 hours I had those noises briefly a few more times until about 6:30pm on Friday, I could no longer boot. My system was toasted. Fortunately, when I tried it again at about 9:30am on Tuesday morning, things were good again, and I've been okay since (no type v noises, but some type iv noises).

7. There was something else I had wanted to say, but I cannot remember what it was. oh well :) Never mind, I remember it (point 4) :)

Wow! what a big post. :)


--
Alec
[email protected]

Raven
02-16-2002, 08:46 AM
I do believe I'm running a 20 gigger IBM 60GXP on my backup system. Dear lord.. :runs for cover:

-GK-
02-16-2002, 07:45 PM
Hi,
I got my IBM Deskstar 40GB about 2 months ago, dunno exaclty what type it is but model number is IC35L040 @ 7200rpm. I read that article on the overheating issues of this drive, and about half an hour later I attempted to empty my recycle bin, which contained around 500kb of data. This operation took no less that 2 minutes during which i noticed the drive making some f**ked up clicking sounds: 3 clicks then some drive movement, 3 clicks again, drive movement and so on...

I have one primary C: (30GB) partition and two extended (or logical, i dunno =/) partitions D: & E: (5GB each)

I start to get a little worried after reading the article about heat problems and shutdown the computer. I came back after 20 minutes and boot up. The clicking noises come back, I get worried again, and while waiting for windows to start up I feel the controller chip to check its temperature, slightly warm. When windows doesnt boot up after 5 minutes and I get a prompt asking me for COMMAND.COM which the PC failed to locate I decide to format. I use the Win98 start up disk and FDISK to delete the primary partition and create a new one. It verifies drive integrity about 3 times and tells me to restart. So then I boot up with Win98 CD and try to setup windows again; setup tries to format my drive. I give up after 2 hours of waiting as the status has only got to 5%. I get pissed off and try to manually format using win98 start up disk, this takes the same amount of time but tells me about 'recovering allocation units'. I switch the computer off when that gets to 3% after 4hours and go to sleep.

What can I do now? Is all my data lost on C: and what about on partitions D: and E:? And If I do get the drive back, what can I do to make sure this doesn't happen again, will a few fans blowing onto the drive directly help?

Thanks a lot

GK

Its a GXP60 btw, just checked

OKCompMan317
02-17-2002, 05:49 AM
I have had a failed 60gig 60 gxp and i see it related to heat, since i have 2 of them and 75gxp 60 gig that share the problem. I mounted them vertically and attached two 40cfm 80mm fans around the cage they were in.
Previously they were a major factor in heat and still is but the chips are running at acceptable levels now.

to all who have them or looking to buy them, COOL THEM!

Anonymous
02-17-2002, 10:19 AM
Greetings...

Just to chime in: I purchased 10 (yes TEN) 75GXP's in a lot in December of 2001. Of the Ten Drives 5 (FIVE) have failed. Meanwhile I have Maxtor Drives 60 GB's that I bought in a lot of 10 (TEN) and have used them for 2 years without a single failure.

Here I thought I was being cool gettting the "performance" of the IBM drives, no thanks.

It sucks when your TIVO B drive is IBM, I have got to tell you.

James Kirkes

[email protected]

Anonymous
02-17-2002, 10:25 AM
'Nuff said.

jaeger66
02-17-2002, 11:15 AM
I'm weeping.

"I tried this on the controller chips of my faulty IBM drive and it didn’t really help, at all. Its effect was actually counter-productive. The drive doesn’t even power up anymore. So, it goes without saying, I highly recommend everyone avoid this method. I’ll be replacing the circuit board of my faulty HDD drive with my existing working IBM 60GXP drive"

Why didn't you just toss it in the bathtub, same effect. Water + electricity = bad things happening. What little credibility this site had is now totally gone.

Anonymous
02-17-2002, 11:20 AM
jaeger66,

Your comment seems as productive as the freeze spray. I made a mistake, forgive me - Maybe you live the perfect world, others don't.

Albinus
02-17-2002, 11:45 AM
I just contacted Dick Smith myself and they said that the freeze spray is NOT CONDUCTIVE - and is actually designed for temporarily cooling IC chips as one of its primary functions.

So before you shoot off your mouth jaeger66, it may be worthwhile to do some homework first :hmph:

Anonymous
02-17-2002, 11:50 AM
I was told the exact same thing - You live and you learn...

Anonymous
02-17-2002, 01:40 PM
Here's an article I came across somewhere (sorry, too senile to remember where):

"I suppose I need to cover a few ground rules. Musts that...well...must be followed in order to achieve sustained high performance. Past IBM drives had developed (in my opinion) a bad rap for reliability and quirky performance.
It is paramount that the installation of such a special drive must careful and deliberate. Don't merely "throw" or "whip" these high speed units into a case at some strange angle with bent and twisted ATA100 cable.
Place the drive where the ambient temperature never exceeds 80-85°F. If this is not achievable with a fan blowing cool air directly across the HD, then seek another location. All high RPM drives must be kept cool. I use InWin "S" series cases and while they might look boring, the airflow is simply the best in the market. The interior temperature never exceeds 5°F above ambient (without any additional case fans).
Screw the drive into a bay that has at least 1-2 inches completely open above and below the unit. If you cram this hot rod between one or two other models, you'll end up with dead useless paperweights in no time.
Lastly, don't even think of moving your computer while the drive is operating. Those sensitive heads will smack the platters with a nice "scrrraaaatch" or scraping sound and once that happens, it's RMA time.
I have used several 15GB 75GXPs, supposedly the most problematic model, in a small college environment for well over a year. The only time one required replacement was when the case was moved and bounced while formatting. Otherwise, the 75GXP series has been and still holds great respect for me in all performance areas."

I've just RMA'd my 15.3gb 75GXP direct to IBM and they sent me back (it took 2 weeks, BTW) the very same model, made in Philippines like the first one, manuf. date Dec 2000. I haven't even unpacked it, I had begged them not to send me another 75GXP but apparently they don't do one small enough in the 60GXP range. My best friend has just bought me a 40gb 120GXP for my birthday, I'm waiting on a cooler before installing it.

parthena
02-17-2002, 01:55 PM
That was me :angel: who posted the above - I've got myself registered - somehow unregistered posting seems a bit irresponsible.

Anonymous
02-17-2002, 02:37 PM
That was me :angel: who posted the above - I've got myself registered - somehow unregistered posting seems a bit irresponsible.

It's always good to put a name to the posts... :)

remcor2000
02-17-2002, 06:12 PM
i have a ibm 40 gig gxp60 after 1 month of using it locks up and makes stupid noises and only can start dos so i use scan disk after 10 bad clusters repaired the pc started again and i came in windows i asked the retailer and he said if it happens again come back to me but now it happens again.
My question is, is this that stupid bug of all those hd from IBM
cause it really suck

jaeger66
02-18-2002, 05:05 AM
Freeze spray isn't conductive, but hasn' t anyone heard of condensation? It's 6th grade physics. Cold surface + warm air = water.

Anonymous
02-18-2002, 05:39 AM
All this discussion is great. I own 2 40gb 75GXP's and my first worked flawlessy until i got the second.

The second gave me the click error sounds and then when i was listening carefully (pulled them out of my machine), i found that it was both (not at the same time, when accessing different parts of the hard disk).

But the big thing about this problem, is that i just deleted the information held on that part of the hard disk, recently i have updated the firmware and i have never recieved the sounds again. EH? This doesn't make much sense, but i'm not complaining cause they are working. I am going to re-install soon maybe as RAID and see what happens.

Kalv.
[email protected]

Anonymous
02-18-2002, 06:43 AM
I've got a 60Gb IBM 60GXP drive. Stress testing it with IBM Feature Tool gave me a temperature of 60C at which a got a warning that the drive was too hot (max operational temp is 55C).
Under heavy disk load (dv recording) I got 55C which was the triggering point that made me look for a cooling solution for my hd.

I got myself a CoolDrive 4002 from Coolermaster, but this 5 1/4 bay has a really loud fan in front that I didn't like very much. The solution I'm using now is:

- I'm running the Cooldrive fan at 5 volt which makes it really quiet. I also had to remove the front cover, and I've also installed two 12db 80x80 cabinet fans in the cabinet (one in the front and one at the rear) to get it perform this well.
- The drive is also been made quiet with IBM Feature tool
- Max temp now is 45C, 20C above room temp.

My IBM disk was bought in May 2001 and has so far been operating well.

Beefy
02-18-2002, 06:52 AM
Freeze spray isn't conductive, but hasn' t anyone heard of condensation? It's 6th grade physics. Cold surface + warm air = water.

Actually, freeze spray causes minimal to no condensation.. It evaporates too quickly to allow the build up of moisture from the air.. definitely not enough to cause any major problems.. instead of fighting over whether or not the spray caused the problem, how about we just drop the whole thing and get back on topic?

Albinus
02-18-2002, 11:14 AM
Thank you Beefy! Now let's start talking about IBM hard drives :cantfocus

-GK-
02-18-2002, 10:13 PM
Im getting my new GXP 60 in about a week :)

If i install a fan where should i place it? On top of the drive blowing down on it, or away from it? Or below it (near controller chip) blowing towards, or away? I have two 80mm fans to use.

GK

Anonymous
02-18-2002, 10:18 PM
Generally just ensure there is air flow srrounding all areas of the drive... The best idea would be to buy a proper HDD cooler.

jaeger66
02-19-2002, 08:56 AM
Actually, freeze spray causes minimal to no condensation.. It evaporates too quickly to allow the build up of moisture from the air.. definitely not enough to cause any major problems.. instead of fighting over whether or not the spray caused the problem, how about we just drop the whole thing and get back on topic?

Competence is always on topic. It doesn't matter how the surface got cold, if it's cold water will form. This article is so full of errors, both grammatical and factual, that it cannot be taken seriously.

And BTW, no modern IDE hard drive requires active cooling(unless you happen to be ventilating your case with a hairdryer). If the ambient temp is over 55C you have much more to worry about than your hard drive.

Wiggo
02-19-2002, 09:49 AM
jaeger66[/size]]


Competence is always on topic. It doesn't matter how the surface got cold, if it's cold water will form. This article is so full of errors, both grammatical and factual, that it cannot be taken seriously.

And BTW, no modern IDE hard drive requires active cooling(unless you happen to be ventilating your case with a hairdryer). If the ambient temp is over 55C you have much more to worry about than your hard drive.
Sounds more like nitpickin' to me because ya don't like bein' wrong but if the freeze spray wasn't any good then why are so many technicians using it?
People who are generally loosing a case always revert back to nitpickin' also so if ya nothin' constructive to add (which you havn't) then bugger off. <img src="http://members.optushome.com.au/wiggo100/tool.gif">
<center>:cheers:</center>

BUhockey13
02-19-2002, 09:50 AM
Well, after having my 30.7G 75GXP IBM HDD dwindle to about 28.0G in about 12 months I got 2 40G Maxtor HDDs (one is for ghosting the other drive) and two removable bays.... :D

Maybe I'll have better luck with Maxtors...... :)

Anonymous
02-19-2002, 09:50 AM
My 75GXP drives are running fine. I've had one of them for about two years.

Right now, the two 40G drives are installed in a RAID 0 array on an Asus A7V133 mboard (Promise RAID chip).

Of course, to be completely honest, I have them installed in a CoolerMaster aluminum case (Model 201 or 205, I think ... it has 7 internal 3.5 drive bays) where two vertical 80mm fans blow cool air over them and two more 80mm fans serve as exhaust units. These fans come with the case as standard equipment.

I prefer the vertical fan alignment of the CoolerMaster cases over the horizontal fan alignment of the Lian Li cases. It just seems to me that I get better cool air distribution over my disc drives with vertical fans ingesting air from the front of the case.

BTW, the 75GXP drives can be adjusted to run quieter and cooler (and also slower). You can get the program from the IBM support site.

Hope this helps ...

Chynn Do'Urden
Dark Elf Wizard
Bristlebane Server
Everquest

Chynn
Nanomage Nano-Technician
RK-1 and Test servers
Anarchy Online

jaeger66
02-19-2002, 10:19 AM
Sounds more like nitpickin' to me because ya don't like bein' wrong but if the freeze spray wasn't any good then why are so many technicians using it?
People who are generally loosing a case always revert back to nitpickin' also so if ya nothin' constructive to add (which you havn't) then bugger off. <img src="http://members.optushome.com.au/wiggo100/tool.gif">
<center>:cheers:</center>

Yes, I'll be leaving now. I came over because the article and the dullards praising it were being ridiculed over at StorageReview, and I had to see the wreckage. Spectacular, really.

One last time folks, cold surfaces meeting with warm air make water. Whether you use cooling spray, a freezer, or leave it outside during winter makes no difference.

Anonymous
02-19-2002, 10:39 AM
Yes, I'll be leaving now. I came over because the article and the dullards praising it were being ridiculed over at StorageReview, and I had to see the wreckage. Spectacular, really.

One last time folks, cold surfaces meeting with warm air make water. Whether you use cooling spray, a freezer, or leave it outside during winter makes no difference.

Und Leute machen Fehler, wie das Schreiben auf Deutsch anstelle von Englisch, Lebe wohl :wave:

sKuLLsHoT
02-19-2002, 11:11 AM
My 75GXP drives are running fine. I've had one of them for about two years.

Right now, the two 40G drives are installed in a RAID 0 array on an Asus A7V133 mboard (Promise RAID chip).

Of course, to be completely honest, I have them installed in a CoolerMaster aluminum case (Model 201 or 205, I think ... it has 7 internal 3.5 drive bays) where two vertical 80mm fans blow cool air over them and two more 80mm fans serve as exhaust units. These fans come with the case as standard equipment.

I prefer the vertical fan alignment of the CoolerMaster cases over the horizontal fan alignment of the Lian Li cases. It just seems to me that I get better cool air distribution over my disc drives with vertical fans ingesting air from the front of the case.

BTW, the 75GXP drives can be adjusted to run quieter and cooler (and also slower). You can get the program from the IBM support site.

Hope this helps ...

Chynn Do'Urden
Dark Elf Wizard
Bristlebane Server
Everquest

Chynn
Nanomage Nano-Technician
RK-1 and Test servers
Anarchy Online

dude that is some helpful info posted for once!

that is the sccenario i had ( 'cept my fans were horizontal ) and if u read my post earlier - mine ran fine for just over a year until i moved it out from behind my 2x80mm fans...

i think with all this mention of the IBM tools - maybe we should call for oems/pc makers to upgrade the firmware and modify the drives running options before selling a system.

the ibm tool:
http://www.storage.ibm.com/hdd/support/download.htm#FeatureTool

Wiggo
02-19-2002, 11:12 AM
Mmm..... A mistake by writin' in German then in English hey. :laugh:
:beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

Anonymous
02-20-2002, 04:47 AM
My 40Gb 75GXP died on me after 8 months. On it were all my email address that I had collected whilst living in Sydney for 16 months, and all my photos that I took whilst travelling on a once-in-a-lifetime trip to Australia :(

Bast#@d IBM drives!!

I RMA'ed it back to the Netherlands (at my expense, obviously), and they sent me back a 120GXP 40Gb, today hot off the press (manufactured FEB 2002).

My worry is, have they ironed out the problems with their high faliure rate? Or should I keeped it in the vacume sealed pack and sell it as second hand?

I bought a WDigital when the IBM went kaput, and I am thinking of investing in another (I need two drives for RAID 0).

Any advice re the 120GXP anyone???

Demetri... Birmingham, UK.

Darthtanion
02-20-2002, 07:52 AM
Sorry about the loss of your data. It seems to be rather common now days. :(

As for the dependability of the 120GXP series drives, it's a bit too early to tell for sure if they are going to be any better or not. We'll just have to keep our eyes open for news concerning the reliability of it.

As for your plans to RAID, you will get the best results if you have two identical drives. Just because two drives are the same capacity and spindle speed doesn't mean that they will play nicely together.

Good luck!

Synetech
02-20-2002, 10:19 AM
Hey,

Two days ago, an unregistered guest mentioned updating their firmware. Where can we get firmware updates? I've checked around the IBM sites with no luck.

Thanks

Anonymous
02-20-2002, 01:39 PM
Although this is unscientific, I believe the problems with the 60 and 75GXP drives has a lot to do with the POWER SUPPLY in the PC. These drives don't seem to like voltage spikes or dips at all. From what I've been seeing the drives inside PC's with cheap-o generic PSU's die quickly, and drives in PC's with good 300W+ brand name PSU's don't.

Now, it could just be once again a heat issue (cheap = lots of heat generated, expensive PSU = less heat? dunno) but in any case I do seem to see a pattern in cheap PSU .vs. expensive PSU in regards to drive failures...

Ted

Wiggo
02-20-2002, 02:19 PM
The only thing is a lot of the ppl who are reporting these failures are using top quality PSU's so I don't really see that one holding much water sorry. :smokin:
<center>:cheers:</center>

BUhockey13
02-20-2002, 06:02 PM
I'm in the process of replacing my 30G 75GXP.... and I have a Enermax EG465P-VE FMA PSU... that's 431W of power..... here's my system:
http://people.ne.mediaone.net/wadzinski/HAL9000.htm

Anonymous
02-20-2002, 08:43 PM
Sorry for being an unregistered poster but that's life.

I'm a computer engineer with too many years of experience behind me so I know a lot but by no means everything. Everybody lives and learns, if they don't then they shouldn't make comments in forums such as this - there's always somebody who actually knows more than you do!

My problem is that the sentiment of the original article is perfectly reasonable. Unfortunately the pseudo-factual content of the same article is too flawed to make it useful.

The first difficulty is establishing the cause of the problem. The reply about chipset faults may have some bearing especially if the failure is accelerated by thermal loading or cycling. There is also the IBM firmware update which appears to to have the result of reducing the localised build-up of heat on the platter. This would tie in with the premise of 'overheating' causing the symptom of the problem without specifying the actual cause of the failure.
(In this context, freezer spray is irrelevant so I'll not get drawn into the arguments about it but I'd just advise anyone intending to use it to learn how to - or why - first!)

Cooling therefore may - or may not - help 75gxp longevity. This is pure supposition but, like most PC components, cooling can't do anything but help since most cases toast their component parts day in, day out!

The second difficulty is IBM and its refusal to accept that there is a problem. They could acknowledge a high failure rate or, conversely, show failure rates for 75gxp drives which demonstrate that we are just a vocal minority (which to be quite honest is perfectly possible) but in either case they should just replace units under warranty with no hassle and no complaint. Unfortunately, when drives take weeks to turn around it does nothing for the company's credibility. Even worse if the 'new' drives go faulty soon after return.

So to summarise the whole of the article: "Is there a problem with 75gxp drives and if so is it thermally stimulated?" I can't answer without evidence I'm afraid ...

Whatever the reasons behind current events, look at the whole thing in context. WD, Segate and Maxtor have all had major problems in the past. All of these manufacturers are still supplying thousands of drives to satisfied customers. There is no reason why IBM should be any different. Perhaps the crux of the problem was that IBM kit was on such a pedestal for so long that no-one expected it to produce anything vaguely faulty so when it does happen they've got no idea how to deal with it themselves! The 'problem' here is perhaps not that the drives are (or are not) failing in abnormal quantities but that IBM are not putting their customers first when they have problems.

Finally, a tip to budding writers. Articles based on 'belief' or 'what I think' shouldn't try to include uninformed factual content. Don't attempt to mix 'guessed' facts and fiction which only serves to muddy the waters for everybody else.

DigitalDD
02-20-2002, 10:18 PM
DigitalDD,
You mention you use ribbon over round cables...... I use rounded cables in my case.....

you think this might attribute to the bad blocks appearing on my IBM Deskstar 75GXP 30.0G drive?

Thanks

First sorry for not replying sooner but I've been real busy. now on to the question.

While I've seen varying reports that rounded cables can cause data corruption, I assume most of these 'reports' are from man-rounded cables not the nice machine rounded kind. I myself prefer to fold the flat IDE cables live origami flat against the side/bottom of the case. I can't honestly say that rounded cables cause any kind of data corruption because I've never experienced any, I just prefer to fold my cables and I figured I'd state that fact in my message.

Lord knows it might help isolate what causes these drives to fail if IBM knew what were the common factors in every environment where these drives failed.:sun:

parthena
02-20-2002, 10:40 PM
The very least you should do is show us a pic of the inside of your case :cry:.

My HDD Cooler (Akasa very slim 2-fan) has arrived this morning, so there's no excuse for me to postpone the re-commissioning of my problematic ECS K7S5A with my new 120GXP, I've read more info than I can absorb or understand... but I really must have a nap now :zzz:.

PS : I didn't take it that you wouldn't use rounded cables, I thought you simply said you didn't.

Anonymous
02-21-2002, 08:40 AM
From Austin, TX:

In Jan, 2001, I bought two 30GB IBM GXP75s (DTLA 307030) to run in my Abit KT7A-RAID. Ran a RAID-0 configuration (striped). Broken stripe after three months. Attempted rebuild, but a bad HDD. Sent it back, with IBM's ridiculous return shipping instructions. (Who saves HDD boxes? Well, I do. Now.)

Can't remember site of manufacture of original drive. Replacement is from Philippines. I ran a mirrored configuration (the numbers aren't as great, but it's reliable and I don't notice the difference much). Now the second one crashed, and I'm calling up IBM for it. It was Hungarian, FWIW.

In between the crashes, I switched to round cables (machine-made), and I have a Lian-Li case, with the two intake fans blowing over the IBM drives. I don't overclock; the only modification I've made is to reduce I/O voltage by .5V for reliability (MBM reported a high voltage on the 5V circuit). In my case (pun intended) heat is not killing these drives.

It's not a large sample, but I'm running a 66.6% failure rate on these drives. If IBM thinks I don't know how to use a HDD, they can kiss my pasty white sysadmin arse!

Frankly, I'm not buying another IBM drive for at least a year or so. I suspect marketing wanted the performance, but QA couldn't deliver. I'm having great luck with a pair of Maxtors (unintentional, it just kinda happened that way) in my other PC, and Seagate's out of the picture because at work, all the replaced HDDs are Seagate.

Email at [email protected] for more info.

Anonymous
02-22-2002, 06:47 AM
I ran the latest IBM DFT on the system and everything checks out.

Ran the system for about 15 minutes, no testing, just seeing if it runs.

Waited about an hour, with the case open and booted it up. Lockup at the logon screen (Win98 with logon), drive starts making scratch-scratch-scratch, tic-tic sounds. Reboot, broken mirror. Other drive doesn't even show up.

From the sordid BIOS and SoundBlaster wars of the KT7A motherboard to today, this has been the most troublesome system I have ever dealt with. And I built it. Great confidence boost.

IBM is getting their disks back in pieces, if that's what it takes.

"Screw you guys, I'm going home"
-Eric Cartman

BUhockey13
02-22-2002, 10:32 PM
Old pic of the inside of my case:
http://people.ne.mediaone.net/wadzinski/images/Workstation-inside.jpg

FYI: My ISP is changing the webserver in about 2 weeks..... so be fore warned...... :)

Since this picture I've removed on the of CD-ROM drives (on the blue cable) and replaced the IBM 75GXP 30G drive with 2 Maxtor D740X 40G ATA133 HDD in fan cooled trays... :D ..... plus I've made good use of plastic ties to tie up excess power cables and attempt to clear out a air path around the end of the GeForce2 Ultra card in the AGP slot so the air can flow from my 80mm delta fan in the front past the 60mm delta cooled Gladiator on the CPU to the 80mm delta in the back of the case.....

parthena
02-22-2002, 11:11 PM
That's really tidy, BUhockey, did you make any of those rounded cables? (Bit difficult to tell from pic.)

I'm just rebuilding my setup and am all tangled up in wires - I've put a CDRom drive in the top bay, left an empty bay underneath it, then CD-RW under that - thinking about heat. But these P4-ready cases have more PSU wires than ATX-only, so I may have to move the top drive down. Or can I tuck the spare PSU stuff in between the 2 drives?

As you can guess, I'm not exactly the most experienced builder, and I'm a bit worried about bundling up cables in case they overheat??????

I've got 80mm Evercools front and back, and a slot fan beside the AGP video card; now i've put a 2-fan Akasa cooler on my new 120GXP. Power is Antec 340W. CPU is non-overclocked 1gb Athlon 200fsb with non-screaming fan on heatsink.

Please tell me if I'm in danger of overloading.

Morgan_Lander
03-01-2002, 02:57 PM
Shoot, dude I got a heftier system that that running on an Antec 350

AOpen AK77 Pro (KT266), T-Bird 1.4 @ 1.58 (151x10.5), Gainward GF3 @ 251/571, 512MB PC2100 DDR.

Stable. Antec's PSU's are good.

parthena
03-01-2002, 03:24 PM
When I clicked Send/Rec to send you that email, in came a notification from Tweaktown that Morgan had posted - so this is where we met :).

So I'll tell everyone here that the noise in my pc was not my 75GXP, it was the PSU - which is actually a Chieftec 340W, I called it Antec because I thought that was the American name for it.

Morgan

Thanks for the info - I'm temporarily running on an old 300W now, nice and smooth, but I've taken out the slot fan 'just in case'.

Anonymous
03-06-2002, 07:41 PM
Sounds like you were lucky... :)

BUhockey13
03-07-2002, 11:29 AM
Talking PSUs.... I'm running a 431W Enermax on my rig..... :D Even has temperature sensitive cooling fans.... revs up when the case gets hot and down when it's cool..... now that's cool :)

khaotic
03-08-2002, 10:21 PM
great article Cam,

I've got an 60GXP 60 Gb ... thought I had a great disk t'ill it was 3 months old ... it clicked and made some other ugly noises , when it booted again (after a resting period of 1/2 h) I had 'lucky me' a disk with bad sectors/clusters, and I don't even use it at 100% performance since my mobo only supports udma 33.

My local pc shop performed a low lvl format (tried this first, otherwise would have been bigdiskless for +/- 2-3 weeks) and now it works fine again, but I'm gonna install some cooling, i dont thrust it anymore.


greetz khaotic

Anonymous
03-19-2002, 02:48 AM
I have the IBM 60GXP in 40GB. I have used this with an older 550 Athlon which heats up like crazy.

I have a full tower case and have used the baycooler HD Coolers (www.baycooler.com) from day one of getting the drive. Cheap but effective. I did manage to fry out a Maxtor 5400 drive when I had the Athlon in a mid tower case.

I have since learned my lesson and now use cooling fans on all of my HDD.

So far my IBM HDD is still running fine without noises and I leave my system on 24/7. I have no issues so far so I'm not buying into the fact that these HDD should run only 8 hours a day.

I'm not quite sure if these are like some cars, some are good and some are bad. I'm gonna get another IBM HDD, this time an 80GXP and hopefully I won't have issues with it.

The 80 is gonna be transported hell and back and in mid towers and elsewhere as I have Computer Classes to take this quarter. I'll have to see how this one holds up. It will have a single fan in the removable HDD Case.

Wish me luck with this one guys.

Andy
03-20-2002, 12:40 PM
I have the IBM 60GXP in 40GB.... I have no issues so far so I'm not buying into the fact that these HDD should run only 8 hours a day.

IBM say that the 120GXP drives should run only 8 hours a day, not the earlier models

Wiggo
03-21-2002, 01:16 PM
Here's a list of sites that have or are on IBM's case about their HDD's.
http://www.hardocp.com/
http://www.siliconstrategies.com/
http://www.tech-report.com/
http://www.theinquirer.net/
http://www.viahardware.com/
and that's only a few off the top of my head plus all have a good standing in the industry. :smokin:
<center>:cheers:</center>

Mr.Tweak
03-21-2002, 01:59 PM
Wait, you missed TweakTown! :D

Mr. C
04-18-2002, 07:18 AM
Apparently IBM has decided the problem would best be addressed by the Hitachi corporation.
Yep, seems IBM is leaving the Harddrive business.
http://money.cnn.com/2002/04/16/technology/bc.tech.ibm.hitachi.reut/index.htm

Well, not exactly leaving, see the article.

T-Shirt
04-18-2002, 03:54 PM
Wait, you missed TweakTown! :D
And the list would be a lot shorter , if it was people /sites/users not affected/pissed off by the IBM deathstars.:argue:

-GK-
05-08-2002, 12:16 AM
sorry to dig this up again, but i got my new IBM HDD a few months ago and its been running fine. I added a 92mm panaflo directly under the drive and its always on, the entire HDD is very cool to the touch even after heavy gaming. Now im busy downloading all the data i lost :\

well anyway, everythings working fine now, although its really REALLY dusty ;)