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Anonymous
02-22-2002, 05:43 PM
Just checking in with a quick post here - I brought a new Intel Pentium 4 1.6A processor the other day knowing they were "OK" for overclocking, I didn't realise they'd be this good. It posts at 2.5GHz(900MHz overclock) but doesn't boot into Windows. But at 144MHz FSB it posts and boots into Windows XP at 2.4GHz (800MHz overclock) - It still isn't fully stable yet with a Soyo Dragon Plus motherboard (SIS 645 chipset) but I'm being sent a VIA P4X266a board soon which hopefully should improve things.

I'll probably write up an article soon about it.

Wiggo
02-22-2002, 06:26 PM
Can I have ya old box now? :D
:beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

Anonymous
02-22-2002, 06:33 PM
Can I have ya old box now? :D
:beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

It's still in the old box... :)

Wiggo
02-22-2002, 06:48 PM
Maybe when it comes out of it? :hopeful: :D
:cackle: :laugh: :cackle: :laugh: :cackle:

InterTech
02-28-2002, 04:34 AM
Just checking in with a quick post here - I brought a new Intel Pentium 4 1.6A processor the other day knowing they were "OK" for overclocking, I didn't realise they'd be this good. It posts at 2.5GHz(900MHz overclock) but doesn't boot into Windows. But at 144MHz FSB it posts and boots into Windows XP at 2.4GHz (800MHz overclock) - It still isn't fully stable yet with a Soyo Dragon Plus motherboard (SIS 645 chipset) but I'm being sent a VIA P4X266a board soon which hopefully should improve things.

I'll probably write up an article soon about it.

Mr. Tweak,
I have the same setup, the Soyo Dragon Ultra and a 1.6a. I am running it stable at 145fsb (2.32ghz) at 1.675v. It runs prime95 all night long and 3dmarks 2001 se no problem. The only problem is you have to trick it into doing a cold boot whenever you change the voltage. oh also, the spdif can only be used with a 2 speakers setup or with a headphone. I am disappoint with the spdif out because I was gonna set this up for a HTPC, but I can live with my Santa Cruz for now.
This system should be awesome with my GeForce4 Ti4600 when it arrives (hopefully something this week).:cheers:

ODINN
03-06-2002, 04:39 AM
I have a Northwood 1.6a that will overclock with ease to 2.5, running it on a MSI 845 Ultra AR. It runs stable with the intel heatsink but not wanting to fry this puppy, I was hoping you could inform me on the best temps to get or to expect.
Or just the safe zone I should try for.
I sold my 1800xp (overclocked big time) trying to get away from having a windtunnel away from my computer desk.
Any info would be a great help...:D
Thanks

ODINN

Anonymous
03-07-2002, 07:19 PM
My Northwood 1.6a at 2.4GHz sits around 50c to 55c - I'd be aiming for this temperature range or lower.

InterTech
03-08-2002, 12:00 AM
I have a Northwood 1.6a that will overclock with ease to 2.5, running it on a MSI 845 Ultra AR. It runs stable with the intel heatsink but not wanting to fry this puppy, I was hoping you could inform me on the best temps to get or to expect.
Or just the safe zone I should try for.
I sold my 1800xp (overclocked big time) trying to get away from having a windtunnel away from my computer desk.
Any info would be a great help...:D
Thanks

ODINN

My Soyo Dragon Ultra temp sensors are not very reliable. The temp in the Bios always around 45-47c and using the ITE software that came with the board, the temp seems to be always around 50-52c. These temps stays the same even when I run everything at 1.6 or 2.3ghz. I tried MBM5, but that didn't seems to support the SIS645 chipset just yet. Hopefully the author of that great proggie will add the sis645 chipset support soon. If you are running at 2.5ghz at default voltage, then I don't think you have anything to worry about. I did the vid_mod on my cpu to 1.8v default. I am still using the Intel Heatsink, but I ripped the fan off and zip tied a delta 60mm fan on top of it. There's a lot of air going thru the heatsink now, but it's kinda loud. I am trying to find a way to quiet it down a little.

MySTiCuSS
03-08-2002, 02:42 AM
Nice overclock dudes! I wish that i could push my xp this far!

JediAgent
03-11-2002, 01:04 PM
Very nice OC!
Wanna write an article with it next to an OC'ed XP2000 and a normal 2.2. I would like to see what exactly Intel can get done with that speed. Alot i assume....

Anonymous
03-11-2002, 03:18 PM
Hey InterTech,
I also have the Dragon Ultra but with a 2.0a and I can't seem to get the bios settings right for good overclocking.
Can you tell me some settings for me to use to get my OC higher.
I'm currently at 2.3ghz with 116 clock setting/1.625 vcore and 3:4 cpu:dram ratio. Nothing great - but stable.

ODINN
03-11-2002, 09:49 PM
Theres something special about the 1.6a in overclocking it.
I have a feeling that intel did one of their old numbers in
having alot of faster chips and marking them at a lower speed....
to meet the supply and demand for them.....:p

InterTech
03-12-2002, 12:15 AM
Hey InterTech,
I also have the Dragon Ultra but with a 2.0a and I can't seem to get the bios settings right for good overclocking.
Can you tell me some settings for me to use to get my OC higher.
I'm currently at 2.3ghz with 116 clock setting/1.625 vcore and 3:4 cpu:dram ratio. Nothing great - but stable.

Mr. T
1. take the thermal pad off of the heatsink and use Artic Silver 2 or 3 for better heat transfer.

2. Memory performance should be set to normal and cpu:dram to 1:1. if you can go higher with these settings, then you can play with it later.

3. Increase your vcore using the vid_mod method, procedures found here (http://www.hexus.net/review.php?review=278) . Depend on how high your vcore will be, you may need a better heatsink.

4. The 2.0a may not be a good overclocker as the 1.6a.

Good luck...

Anonymous
03-23-2002, 01:02 AM
Is anyone else here sick of the NOISE from Athlon OC'ing?
-Bill

JediAgent
03-23-2002, 02:15 AM
Theres something special about the 1.6a in overclocking it.
I have a feeling that intel did one of their old numbers in
having alot of faster chips and marking them at a lower speed....
to meet the supply and demand for them.....:p

No i think Intel realized it actually needed a 300A again to bring back some popularity again in performance minded communities AND in price minded communities looking for a deal in the mid range CPU system (a 1.6A can be had for equal that of an XP at same speed, i think) Kill two birds with one stone, WHILE selling more procs at a lower price, by only alotting some high speed cores to a lower speed. Hmmm.....
They'd be idiots not to.

Albinus
03-23-2002, 10:25 AM
No i think Intel realized it actually needed a 300A again to bring back some popularity again in performance minded communities AND in price minded communities


My sentiments exactly..... what irritates me is many (not all mind you!) AMD enthusiasts have forgot or are too new to realise that Intel was the overclocker's best friend prior to the Socket A Athlon/Duron. If Intel can pull off the "300A" trick again, it will be good for all concerned :)

JediAgent
03-23-2002, 10:37 AM
Give a hand to the man at the podium....

zeradul
03-23-2002, 10:54 PM
Then again, with Intel's prices, you better be able to overclock, just to Approach an equal bang for your buck compared with an athlon...

If I spend 100$ on an Athlon, and You spend 150$ on an Intel, you better be able to get it to 150% of my clock speed, JUST to keep pace with my deal (un-overclocked)

Mr.Tweak
03-23-2002, 11:06 PM
You aren't a AMD fan by any chance are you? :)

zeradul
03-24-2002, 12:22 AM
I am just pointing out simple math....

I am a big fan of intel, as well as AMD. We are very lucky to have both, because it keeps them both on their toes, and gets us technology asap.......

66% of my computers are intel based, and my official opinion on AMD is that everything they touched in the consumer PC market PRE-ATHLON was pure trash. (compared to the pentium 2's of the time...)

Anonymous
03-24-2002, 03:46 AM
Then again, with Intel's prices, you better be able to overclock, just to Approach an equal bang for your buck compared with an athlon...

If I spend 100$ on an Athlon, and You spend 150$ on an Intel, you better be able to get it to 150% of my clock speed, JUST to keep pace with my deal (un-overclocked)

You can argue this with me, but here's how I see it (mind you I have over 10 oc'd athlons, and this is my first intel in years):

intel MSI 845 Ultra w/ ata133 raid, usb2.0, etc.
intel P4 1.6a w/ HSF, OC's to 2250 EASY
$270 including shipping

AMD Athlon XP 1900+, can't OC without pain in the ass
Gigabyte VA-7RVXP with all the godies
$298 including shipping
no, WAIT... I forgot.. oh no... it'll melt!!! So, I get a decent HSF for $25 including shipping...
now I'm around $325 and still not as fast as my intel counterpart.

At this point, with the 1.6a, intel is the price/performance leader.

Also, when I count the cost of the number of chipped proc cores (I know, my fault, but hey, HSF's suck, m/b's suck, when you go through that many, cores get chipped), and burned procs cuz of HSF's having fallen off (yes, this really does happen in the real world), I'd have been better off switching back to intel a while ago. I'm also SICK of the noise of Athlons. It was a great run for a while, guys, but for now, my money's back on intel.

price/performance, it's cheaper
it's quieter
heatspreader protects it from chips
proc doesn't fry without a heatsink
-Bill

JediAgent
03-24-2002, 05:01 AM
Price/performance leader?
Even with the 1.6A thats Bulcrap.
For one, 99% of the computing world cant overclock, so your precious 1.6A has been belittled to what?..... not 2.5GHZ, not 2.25GHz, 1.6GHz. Match any XP (even ones at a lower clock) and they will beat a 1.6A in most any benchmark.

Price next... Pricewatch says ... $133 and the equally clocked Athlon XP1900 ... $142, an $11 dollar difference. But, whats that? Ah yes, the XP1600 starts at $93, and even thou some of us are not fond of the AMD numbering system, the XP1600 is either better than or equal to a 1.6A.

Oh yes, the previous post figure? Well first off, its not always the best idea to be comparing motherboards and shipping into the pricing equation. Most ppl will be buying different motherboards and thus, have a very different pricing scheme. And we're not comparing bang for buck motherboards, we are comparing procs.
If you wanted to compare CPU/RAM/Mobo systems may i remind you that Intel has only recently allowed us to use SDRAM and DDRAM on the P4. Or that its not at its full potential without spending he money for RDRAM.

So, what have we learned today? Unless you have the ability to pull every ounce of performance out of that 1.6A you might as well spend your money on an XP1600, and see if a local PC store can offer you a quiet fan, which is definately not going to eat into all of your $40 savings.

----------------------------------------------------------
Edit: I say "us" back there because I plan on buying a P4 1.6A, only because i want to overclock it. Remember i did say that unless you have the ability to O/C its not worth it, nor would here be the authority to deem it Price/Performance leader.

Anonymous
03-25-2002, 11:03 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JediAgent
[B]Price/performance leader?
Even with the 1.6A thats Bulcrap.
For one, 99% of the computing world cant overclock, so your precious 1.6A has been belittled to what?..... not 2.5GHZ, not 2.25GHz, 1.6GHz. Match any XP (even ones at a lower clock) and they will beat a 1.6A in most any benchmark.

Well, I guess I thought I was posting on tweaktown, not meaktown. Not to bust on you, bud, but I'm ASSUMING we're talking about what's the best bang for the buck in an EASILY overclocked scenario... the P4, that's ONE BIOS setting and I'm there. That's not bad. As for the price, I don't care about pricewatch prices, shipping is always ridiculous. My prices are from newegg.com including shipping, which is 95% of the time the cheapest overall place on the net. Your prices for Athlons are off. Either way, I'm pretty damn happy with this 1.6a and will be buying more. Best of luck with yours. :)
-Bill

zeradul
03-25-2002, 11:14 AM
3 and the equally clocked Athlon XP1900 ... 2, an dollar difference. But, whats that? Ah yes, the XP1600 starts at ,

Well, lookie there... If I spend 93 dollars, and you spend 133, then you better be able to get 43% above and beyond an equivalent Clock speed. And since a 1.8 P4 performs EQUAL to a 1.4 XP , then you would need to get to

1.43 * 1.8 = 2.574 GHtz and be stable just to have TIED me for bang for the buck....

OOO and just think of the heat sink you'd need to beat my un-overclocked athlon... Ouch...

Anonymous
03-25-2002, 11:54 AM
Well, lookie there... If I spend 93 dollars, and you spend 133, then you better be able to get 43% above and beyond an equivalent Clock speed. And since a 1.8 P4 performs EQUAL to a 1.4 XP , then you would need to get to

1.43 * 1.8 = 2.574 GHtz and be stable just to have TIED me for bang for the buck....

OOO and just think of the heat sink you'd need to beat my un-overclocked athlon... Ouch...

Well, lookie there... I KNOW we're ALL in love with AMD, but PLEASE, let's get as CLOSE to apples and apples as we can. Now, using your example, you've taken my price for a retail P4 with a nice, relatively quiet fan and compared it to some price you'll never get (quote me the shipping for that $93) on an OEM, no HSF unit. Try my math, tell me if you disagree (or find it cheaper, cuz I'd love to buy).
From newegg.com:
AMD Athlon XP 1600+/266 FSB PROCESSOR CPU - RETAIL 1600+/ 1.40GHz, Fed-ex Free shipping: $125
Pretty good price, comes with HSF, and the noise is tolerable.

Intel Pentium 4 1.6A GHz 512K Socket 478 Processor 400MHz Processor Bus- RETAIL version. With / Heatsin & Fan. Fed-ex shipping $7, total: $140

So, I'll go with need atleast 1.8GHz P4, that's fine, sounds about right.
Difference in total cost: 12%
1.12 * 1.8 = 2.016GHz.

Sorry, in an EASILY overclocked scenario, intel wins. Hands down. I know there are a LOT of different ways to look at this, but I'm a lazy overclocker. If I can change my FSB to 140, get over 2.2GHz with stock cooling that isn't blowing my ears out, I'm pretty damn happy. I have enough systems to run all kinds of benchmarks until I'm benchmark-blue in the face. I prefer applications, and the p4 @ 2.2x GHz beats my 1.55GHz Athlon by about 2-10% on pretty much everything. I like it. Especially considering all the other reasons I listed above. If you don't, that's fine, but please don't tell me it doesn't compete in price when OC'd, because it does.. and wins.
-Bill

Anonymous
03-25-2002, 04:58 PM
I have a 1.6a running at 2.6Ghz and under 55C full load with a volcano 7+.. wow 1Ghz .. if this isnt what we look for in chips ??

To tell you the truth, intel rushed the release of the northwoods to take the speed crown from AMD (did it win ?? well let you figure it out), but you will find that the northwood core is really designed for a 533 FSB.. but since no RDRAM was currently avail for that spec, nor any motherboard .. they just released em at 400.. hence they overclock like no morrow!!

Anyway I'm satisfied with my intel, my previous AMD got crushed when i was stuffing about with diff fans...

Anyway my 2c

REMEMBER competition is our friend .. and as such best of luck to AMD!!!

JediAgent
03-26-2002, 05:30 AM
So, I'll go with need atleast 1.8GHz P4, that's fine, sounds about right.
Difference in total cost: 12%
1.12 * 1.8 = 2.016GHz.


Serious question - why did we throw in the 1.8GHz part?
Thats not the "easily overclockable" chip, the 1.6A is. Or did i miss something and Intel started making 1.8GHz procs out of the Northwood core?

And BTW lazy overclocking is not the way to go - if that were the case, nobody would have discovered the pencil trick that got so many of our Athlons at such a high speed.

Oh and its obvious WE ARE ALL pulling prices out of our arses.

Shepps
03-26-2002, 05:48 AM
calm down ladies, nough of the slapping.

Anonymous
03-26-2002, 06:55 AM
Serious question - why did we throw in the 1.8GHz part?
Thats not the "easily overclockable" chip, the 1.6A is. Or did i miss something and Intel started making 1.8GHz procs out of the Northwood core?

And BTW lazy overclocking is not the way to go - if that were the case, nobody would have discovered the pencil trick that got so many of our Athlons at such a high speed.

Oh and its obvious WE ARE ALL pulling prices out of our arses.
The 1.8GHz was the assumed baseline of a P4 in comparison to a 1.4GHz Athlon (e.g. a 1.4GHz Athlon will run most benchmarks at about the same spec as a 1.8GHz P4). So, we're saying we have to get "x" percent above 1.8GHz (doesn't matter what chip we start with, but we're talking about the 1.6a here) to be "outperforming" the 1.4GHz Athlon, which I would say is an agreeable aproximation.

I didn't say lazy overclocking is THE way to go, just that I'll leave the hardcore stuff for others who have the time to do it, and I'll focus on the "pick" of the day. Pencil was awesome, 1.6a is awesome, just don't ask me to mask bridges and start soldering, you know?

Oh, and it's obvious all the prices quoted have been pulled out of one's arse (or pricewatch.com, same thing, just about), except, of course, for mine, which are/were all purchasable at that price as of the day I posted them. newegg.com

p.s. there definitely is a 1.8a (Northwood) P4.

"Intel Pentium4 1.8A GHz 512K Socket 478 Processor 400MHz Processor Bus- Retail Box version with Fan (CPU ONLY NO RAMBUS RAM) Model#: BX80532P1800D Special FedEx Saver Shipping $6.95" $183 <---- newegg.com
-Bill

JediAgent
03-26-2002, 09:13 AM
p.s. there definitely is a 1.8a (Northwood) P4.

"Intel Pentium4 1.8A GHz 512K Socket 478 Processor 400MHz Processor Bus- Retail Box version with Fan (CPU ONLY NO RAMBUS RAM) Model#: BX80532P1800D Special FedEx Saver Shipping .95" 3 <---- newegg.com


Are you sure thats a northwood core, because i think there are P4's with 478 socket that still arent northwoods.

Well i guess the next real question is how does an overclocked 1.6A without RDRAM fair against an unlocked and overclocked XP using within 7% of the same pricetag (cpu/mobo/ram) WITHOUT shipping because i still think that is too variable to test.

We should get a TT writer to do it... hehe... j/k

Anonymous
03-26-2002, 11:50 AM
Are you sure thats a northwood core, because i think there are P4's with 478 socket that still arent northwoods.

Well i guess the next real question is how does an overclocked 1.6A without RDRAM fair against an unlocked and overclocked XP using within 7% of the same pricetag (cpu/mobo/ram) WITHOUT shipping because i still think that is too variable to test.

We should get a TT writer to do it... hehe... j/k

Hmmm.. not sure about the Northwood core thingy, I *could* be wrong, but I didn't know there were ANY non-Northwood 512K's out there, besides, it is a 1.8a, which tells me northwood. As for your price comparison, you have to throw in a HSF for the Athlon... unlocked? Well, if you go by this:

intel MSI 845 Ultra w/ ata133 raid, usb2.0, etc. ~$130
intel P4 1.6a w/ HSF, OC's to 2250 EASY ~$140
$270

AMD Athlon XP 1800+/266 FSB PROCESSOR CPU - RETAIL Athlon XP 1800+/ 1.53GHz, AX1800BOX ~$130
Gigabyte VA-7RVXP with all the godies ~$140
$270

Both use DDR, both have similar system board specs (since I have both). Now, I don't have any unlocked XP 1800+'s, but based on Overclockers.com's CPU database: http://overclockers.cssftware.com/cpudb/Showamd.cfm
just scroll to the bottom, I don't count watercooling here. With that retail HSF, you won't go above 1650, and I'll be impressed if you do that. By that same database, 2.4GHz is not out of reach for the 1.6a P4. So, according to AMD, 1650 would be a 1950/2000+ PR score. According to the technical community, we might give it a 2100+. I'll take the P4 at 2.2, 2.3, or 2.4GHz over that AMD with surgery performed on it any day. :)

That's my best general assesment of it for you.
-Bill

GraveLayer
03-27-2002, 02:21 AM
JediAgent,
RDRam is CHEAPER than DDR Ram....
I just put a 1.6A system together last weekend. 1st Pentium in a couple of years. But I couldn't pass up the easy OC'ing of the Northwood matched with Samsung 16-device RDRam, and a Asus P4T-E w/ICS chips....
Investment total was $440...
Running at 133fsb or 2125 right out of the box!

MySTiCuSS
03-27-2002, 05:44 AM
Man i wished that i had bought a p4! HEHE i have my xp now for 2 months!

JediAgent
03-27-2002, 07:47 AM
JediAgent,
RDRam is CHEAPER than DDR Ram....
I just put a 1.6A system together last weekend. 1st Pentium in a couple of years. But I couldn't pass up the easy OC'ing of the Northwood matched with Samsung 16-device RDRam, and a Asus P4T-E w/ICS chips....
Investment total was 0...
Running at 133fsb or 2125 right out of the box!

I KNOW. The P4 will work better with the RDRAM than DDR, hence my skepticism on whether a 2.4GHz P4 will work a 1.8GHz unlocked and overclocked XP 1800. But then again i may be entirely wrong as i havent seen benchmarks for a 1.6A overclocked, and the XP isnt even on a .13 process yet.

Anonymous
03-27-2002, 09:15 PM
Man you people are lame :)

The AMD cpu performce much better than its counterpart Intel

take an Athlon 1800+ (1533mhz) against an 2ghz intel 478 and opps did the little AMD beat the Intel in benchmarks oohh why yes it did !

and i myself have OCed the 1800+ to 1750 with retail heatsink !

I agree that Intel has tons of MHZ but not the performance that it should have at those MHZ ! its easy to figure out why !

Intel has 1 instruction less than AMD per clockcykel ! that is why the lower clocked AMD performce better than the higher clocked Intel !

!

JediAgent
03-28-2002, 04:43 AM
*jumps out from behind unregistered*

yeah, so there!

zeradul
03-28-2002, 09:24 AM
Well, you have succeeded in convincing me.

Not necessarily that one is better than the other, but that prices CAN BE much closer than I had thought/ and as they used to be.

Back in october when I built my computer, ram was 32$ a stick! Now its hovering around 90! Back then RDRAM was insane.

I will definatly be eyeing anandtech for an article about this. If Anand deems the 1.6 worthy of extreme overclocking, without compromising any other aspect, then I will certainly look into them in the future.