LISTEN TO THIS (micorsoft fans)

[Chaos]

[minibubba]

So what u think of that. Tell me what u think.

I think that if Apple tries to rub this in M$'s face too much that all the Hackers and crackers that are board with windows will turn on apple for something new... and then we'll see just how good the Mac really is. The same could be said about Linux, although Linux (Suse) has won awards for it's security.

Considering they are both based on Unix, it could be intersting if they were both put to the test in the same manner that windows is

[Dyck15]

So, is panther available on x86? With all the comparisons it almost makes me think that it is. I am going to say no, but I just want to clear it up.

[Darthtanion]

To follow up with what minibubba was talking about, think back a couple of summers ago. There was all this big talk by the Linux enthusiasts that THEIR OS was so secure. THEY didn't have to worry about all the malicious code and virii going around the world because THEY used Linux... that is until the hackers got wind of this trash talking and spent a bit of effort showing how wrong folks were in this line of thought. But, Linux still wasn't nearly as popular then as it is now and there wasn't that large a user base, so when the hackers had thoroughly proven their point and showed how easily they could bypass this Superior OS security measures, they turned their attention back to Mr Gates.

Don't think that just because someone makes a few comments about security that one product is that much better than the rest. I seriously doubt it has been tested by the only real test that matters... true hackers.

[asklepios]

To follow up with what minibubba was talking about, think back a couple of summers ago. There was all this big talk by the Linux enthusiasts that THEIR OS was so secure. THEY didn't have to worry about all the malicious code and virii going around the world because THEY used Linux... that is until the hackers got wind of this trash talking and spent a bit of effort showing how wrong folks were in this line of thought.

wow!!! :wow: that would be an interesting read. i m really fed up of all this s**t going around that says Linux is THE only secure thing left in the world. could you please tell me what this virus thing is all about. till now i have been told that only 40 Linux virii are out there of which only 4 are of some what real danger and that too when executed as root. just give me any information and i'll search for more :bounce:
thanx for your time :cheers:

[The__tweaker]

Don't think that just because someone makes a few comments about security that one product is that much better than the rest. I seriously doubt it has been tested by the only real test that matters... true hackers.

True word spoken.. :2cents:

[Yawgm0th]

Originally posted by Chaos
Apple's Latest OS X Upgrade
Has Remarkable Security
By Davod Pogue
10-24-3

The reputation of the personal computer has taken a horrible hit this year. Viruses have made headlines week after week. Spam now exceeds 50 percent of all e-mail. Hackers and academics have uncovered one Windows security hole after another, turning Microsoft into a frantic little Dutch boy at the dike without enough fingers. If the computer industry were a celebrity, it would hire an image consultant.

Quite possibly the worst figurative speaking I have ever heard is used in this paragraph. Someone should slap the writer.

Correction: The Windows computer industry would hire one. Macintosh fans, on the other hand, have watched the tribulations of the much larger Windows population with mixed feelings - sympathy, relief, even amusement - because their operating system, Mac OS X, is so far 100 percent virus-free. And because Mac OS X comes with less of its plumbing exposed to the Internet than Windows, hackers are a far more distant worry.

Mac OS X isn't 100% virus-free. You just don't hear about viruses (or similar problems on Macs), it's called media bias. Get used to it. The virus problem on Windows is exagerrated by people who seem to consider a spyware cookie a virus. Plumbing? No idea what he's talking about. The only thing 'plumbing' could be is the system folder (unless my computer gets running get running water...). I guess the author doesn't realize your entire hard drive is "exposed" when you have an internet connection. Hackers aren't a "worry", ever. Get the terminology strait, it's crackers (not to be confused with the duragotory term), and they just don't find as many Mac systems worth cracking into as they do Windows. But there are those who do it for fun, and Mac users aren't safe. There aren't as many Mac users as Window users, there's media bias (as previously stated), therefor you don't hear about the occasions a Mac is broken into through the internet (assuming the user somehow knows they broke in, they might have been stealing info and not screwing stuff up). In any case, crackers just aren't a big problem. If your computer is broken into, you probably did something stupid. Most crackers don't go rifling through random IPs, they go for web sites and for people who visited a site they own\have access to.

This is a big week for Apple.

Last week, the company unveiled the Windows version of its popular, free iTunes music-downloading software - and tomorrow, it will release Mac OS X version 10.3 ( or Panther), the next edition of Apple's three-year-old operating system.

That decimal-point increase (from version 10.2 to 10.3) doesn't give the upgrade's 150 new features enough credit. Then again, Apple's not the only company to have trouble with naming schemes. What's the logic in the sequence of Windows versions - 95, 98, Me, XP?

System 7.5.3, 7.5.5, etc....
iTunes (not free, costs money to get music).... who gives a crap? Enough said.
Throwing "i" in front of a program's name doesn't make it good. (Not that throwing XP at the end makes it good either :))

In any case, Apple has lost no time in exploiting the public's fears of computer insecurity. For example, a new feature called FileVault can encrypt your entire "Home folder" - files, Web bookmarks, e-mail and all - and then decode them automatically and invisibly when you log in. If, say, your laptop is stolen, your sensitive stuff is secure and safe. (FileVault uses an encoding scheme so thorough, Apple says, that a password-guessing computer would need 149 trillion years to break it. Just enough time for Apple to reach Mac OS X 11.)

Excellent choice of words. Exploiting is eactly what Apple is doing with people's fears. Although it's common in the software industry.
You can get through encryption without a "password-guessing computer". But that feature exists in XP anyway. Not that it's really very neccesary.

Mac OS X can also sign you out of your account automatically after a certain period so that evildoers can't root through your folders when you've wandered off to get some coffee. And a new Secure Empty Trash command doesn't just delete files; it actually overwrites their parking places on the hard drive with invisible gibberish. If you wind up selling your Mac on eBay someday, no data-recovery snoop will be able to resurrect your lost works.

You can write over a file with random binary as much as you want, and it's still possible to know what was once there.

http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/

There's Peter Gutmann's homepage. A very knowledgeable in the area of encryption. Read the articles if you think I'm wrong.

The anti-spam controls have been beefed up, too. Mac OS X Mail can screen out all messages except what comes from recent correspondents and people in your address book. It also auto-blocks junk-mail graphics that, when opened, report back to the spammer that the message has landed safely at a working e-mail address.

I couldn't possibly list all of the programs and web-based services that do all of that and more. MSN web-based e-mail, for one does. And I don't need to use windows or download the e-mail through any e-mail client to use that. It doesn't cost money either. The right plugins for your e-mail client can remove spam entirely, and web-based services (like MSN, Yahoo, AOL) have junk folders. You look through it, pull out anything you want, delete all the messages. Takes about 15 seconds once a week.

Each of Panther's brushed-metal windows displays the Sidebar, a clever navigation-shortcut panel at the left side where you can drag the icons of favorite disks, folders, files and programs. In effect, the Sidebar lets you fold up your desktop so that any two icons appear side-by-side, no matter how far apart they actually are in your folder hierarchy.

Hmm....
Quick Launch
Start Menu
.lnk files. A.K.A. Shortcuts
Not new in XP.
Similar features exist in Linux.
Not new.
Not a big deal anyway.

Some of Panther's "new" features are actually old ones...

A number of Panther's new features originated in Windows.

Yeah, I made that pretty clear. No big deal. The fact that they are new features is the sad part.

Finally, Panther offers Fast User Switching, modeled on the identical feature in Windows XP. If you're working at the Mac when a relative or co-worker wants to check e-mail or a calendar, you no longer have to quit your programs and log out. Instead, your entire world of work remains open but shifts into the background, ready to spring forward again when your fellow account holder is finished. A stunning animation livens up the switching moment: your world appears to rotate out of view as the new account swings onto the screen.

Yet another feature modeled after Windows, and a dumb one for that matter!

The raft of new or improved programs includes the humble text-editing program called TextEdit, which can now open, edit and even create simple Microsoft Word documents. The Preview graphics viewer has had a makeover, too; it's now a full-blown but faster replacement for the Acrobat Reader program that most people use to read PDF documents. And Safari, Apple's smooth, fast Web browser, is better than ever, with its pop-up blocker and its Google search box right in the toolbar.

Ever heard of Microsoft Word? :)
But screw Office and Word, OpenOffice.org is just as good, and free.

(Apple's homegrown versions of important programs like Internet Explorer and Acrobat Reader seem aimed at addressing a common criticism: "Boy, if [insert software company here] ever stops making a Mac version of [insert popular program here], Apple will go out of business." And by reusing certain successful design elements across all of its programs - the new Sidebar is the perfect analog to playlists in iTunes or albums in iPhoto - Apple makes all of them easier to use. On the other hand, Apple should be careful not to alienate powerful partners like Microsoft and Adobe in the process.)

Whatever. Who cares?

The bad Panther news comes in two parts. First, the small one: as with any major system-software upgrade, Panther "breaks" certain add-on utility programs (QuicKeys, for example), which will require minor compatibility updates. And as with any major system-software upgrade, you'll encounter the fewest bumps and glitches if you install a fresh copy of the operating system rather than just updating your existing one.

Wow, usless features and I should probably reinstall the OS. Sounds good.

Now the big one: Apple wants 0 for Panther. That's a fine how-de-do for everyone who dutifully paid 0 last year for version 10.2 and 0 a year before that for version 10.1. Microsoft, at least, has the decency to wait a few years between upgrades. (You can also get Panther free with a new Mac, for 0 after rebate from MacConnection.com or as part of a 0 family five-pack.)

Uhh... The big one on which side of the issue?
You can get an XP upgrade CD for less than that, and it is a much bigger improvement over the older versions.
Or you can get Linux for a price between

Originally posted by Chaos
Apple's Latest OS X Upgrade
Has Remarkable Security
By Davod Pogue
10-24-3

The reputation of the personal computer has taken a horrible hit this year. Viruses have made headlines week after week. Spam now exceeds 50 percent of all e-mail. Hackers and academics have uncovered one Windows security hole after another, turning Microsoft into a frantic little Dutch boy at the dike without enough fingers. If the computer industry were a celebrity, it would hire an image consultant.

Quite possibly the worst figurative speaking I have ever heard is used in this paragraph. Someone should slap the writer.

Correction: The Windows computer industry would hire one. Macintosh fans, on the other hand, have watched the tribulations of the much larger Windows population with mixed feelings - sympathy, relief, even amusement - because their operating system, Mac OS X, is so far 100 percent virus-free. And because Mac OS X comes with less of its plumbing exposed to the Internet than Windows, hackers are a far more distant worry.

Mac OS X isn't 100% virus-free. You just don't hear about viruses (or similar problems on Macs), it's called media bias. Get used to it. The virus problem on Windows is exagerrated by people who seem to consider a spyware cookie a virus. Plumbing? No idea what he's talking about. The only thing 'plumbing' could be is the system folder (unless my computer gets running get running water...). I guess the author doesn't realize your entire hard drive is "exposed" when you have an internet connection. Hackers aren't a "worry", ever. Get the terminology strait, it's crackers (not to be confused with the duragotory term), and they just don't find as many Mac systems worth cracking into as they do Windows. But there are those who do it for fun, and Mac users aren't safe. There aren't as many Mac users as Window users, there's media bias (as previously stated), therefor you don't hear about the occasions a Mac is broken into through the internet (assuming the user somehow knows they broke in, they might have been stealing info and not screwing stuff up). In any case, crackers just aren't a big problem. If your computer is broken into, you probably did something stupid. Most crackers don't go rifling through random IPs, they go for web sites and for people who visited a site they own\have access to.

This is a big week for Apple.

Last week, the company unveiled the Windows version of its popular, free iTunes music-downloading software - and tomorrow, it will release Mac OS X version 10.3 ( or Panther), the next edition of Apple's three-year-old operating system.

That decimal-point increase (from version 10.2 to 10.3) doesn't give the upgrade's 150 new features enough credit. Then again, Apple's not the only company to have trouble with naming schemes. What's the logic in the sequence of Windows versions - 95, 98, Me, XP?

System 7.5.3, 7.5.5, etc....
iTunes (not free, costs money to get music).... who gives a crap? Enough said.
Throwing "i" in front of a program's name doesn't make it good. (Not that throwing XP at the end makes it good either :))

In any case, Apple has lost no time in exploiting the public's fears of computer insecurity. For example, a new feature called FileVault can encrypt your entire "Home folder" - files, Web bookmarks, e-mail and all - and then decode them automatically and invisibly when you log in. If, say, your laptop is stolen, your sensitive stuff is secure and safe. (FileVault uses an encoding scheme so thorough, Apple says, that a password-guessing computer would need 149 trillion years to break it. Just enough time for Apple to reach Mac OS X 11.)

Excellent choice of words. Exploiting is eactly what Apple is doing with people's fears. Although it's common in the software industry.
You can get through encryption without a "password-guessing computer". But that feature exists in XP anyway. Not that it's really very neccesary.

Mac OS X can also sign you out of your account automatically after a certain period so that evildoers can't root through your folders when you've wandered off to get some coffee. And a new Secure Empty Trash command doesn't just delete files; it actually overwrites their parking places on the hard drive with invisible gibberish. If you wind up selling your Mac on eBay someday, no data-recovery snoop will be able to resurrect your lost works.

You can write over a file with random binary as much as you want, and it's still possible to know what was once there.

http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/

There's Peter Gutmann's homepage. A very knowledgeable in the area of encryption. Read the articles if you think I'm wrong.

The anti-spam controls have been beefed up, too. Mac OS X Mail can screen out all messages except what comes from recent correspondents and people in your address book. It also auto-blocks junk-mail graphics that, when opened, report back to the spammer that the message has landed safely at a working e-mail address.

I couldn't possibly list all of the programs and web-based services that do all of that and more. MSN web-based e-mail, for one does. And I don't need to use windows or download the e-mail through any e-mail client to use that. It doesn't cost money either. The right plugins for your e-mail client can remove spam entirely, and web-based services (like MSN, Yahoo, AOL) have junk folders. You look through it, pull out anything you want, delete all the messages. Takes about 15 seconds once a week.

Each of Panther's brushed-metal windows displays the Sidebar, a clever navigation-shortcut panel at the left side where you can drag the icons of favorite disks, folders, files and programs. In effect, the Sidebar lets you fold up your desktop so that any two icons appear side-by-side, no matter how far apart they actually are in your folder hierarchy.

Hmm....
Quick Launch
Start Menu
.lnk files. A.K.A. Shortcuts
Not new in XP.
Similar features exist in Linux.
Not new.
Not a big deal anyway.

Some of Panther's "new" features are actually old ones...

A number of Panther's new features originated in Windows.

Yeah, I made that pretty clear. No big deal. The fact that they are new features is the sad part.

Finally, Panther offers Fast User Switching, modeled on the identical feature in Windows XP. If you're working at the Mac when a relative or co-worker wants to check e-mail or a calendar, you no longer have to quit your programs and log out. Instead, your entire world of work remains open but shifts into the background, ready to spring forward again when your fellow account holder is finished. A stunning animation livens up the switching moment: your world appears to rotate out of view as the new account swings onto the screen.

Yet another feature modeled after Windows, and a dumb one for that matter!

The raft of new or improved programs includes the humble text-editing program called TextEdit, which can now open, edit and even create simple Microsoft Word documents. The Preview graphics viewer has had a makeover, too; it's now a full-blown but faster replacement for the Acrobat Reader program that most people use to read PDF documents. And Safari, Apple's smooth, fast Web browser, is better than ever, with its pop-up blocker and its Google search box right in the toolbar.

Ever heard of Microsoft Word? :)
But screw Office and Word, OpenOffice.org is just as good, and free.

(Apple's homegrown versions of important programs like Internet Explorer and Acrobat Reader seem aimed at addressing a common criticism: "Boy, if [insert software company here] ever stops making a Mac version of [insert popular program here], Apple will go out of business." And by reusing certain successful design elements across all of its programs - the new Sidebar is the perfect analog to playlists in iTunes or albums in iPhoto - Apple makes all of them easier to use. On the other hand, Apple should be careful not to alienate powerful partners like Microsoft and Adobe in the process.)

Whatever. Who cares?

The bad Panther news comes in two parts. First, the small one: as with any major system-software upgrade, Panther "breaks" certain add-on utility programs (QuicKeys, for example), which will require minor compatibility updates. And as with any major system-software upgrade, you'll encounter the fewest bumps and glitches if you install a fresh copy of the operating system rather than just updating your existing one.

Wow, usless features and I should probably reinstall the OS. Sounds good.

Now the big one: Apple wants $130 for Panther. That's a fine how-de-do for everyone who dutifully paid $130 last year for version 10.2 and $130 a year before that for version 10.1. Microsoft, at least, has the decency to wait a few years between upgrades. (You can also get Panther free with a new Mac, for $100 after rebate from MacConnection.com or as part of a $200 family five-pack.)

Uhh... The big one on which side of the issue?
You can get an XP upgrade CD for less than that, and it is a much bigger improvement over the older versions.
Or you can get Linux for a price between $1.50 and $30.00.
Of course, Linux is better than both and doesn't have big brothers Jobs or Gates looking after me.
Maybe I need to afford the expenditure rather than rationalize it.
There are free video and audio chat programs for Windows (Windows\MSN Messenger, comes with Windows XP) and Linux (and compatible Mac versions too). Did I mention they're free (Messenger comes with XP and I think you can download it for some older versions)?

Finally, surely there's value in using an operating system that, well, isn't Windows. Mac OS X isn't just free of viruses; it's also free from copy protection, "activation" (a Windows XP feature that transmits information about your PC back to Microsoft), and pop-up messages that nag you to sign up for some Microsoft database or clean up your icons. When you use Mac OS X, you feel like it's yours; when you use Windows, you feel as though you're using someone else's toys, and Mrs. Microsoft keeps peeking in on you.

Yeah there's some value. So use Linux. Value without price.
Windows XP is good enough that people will pirate it. And activation doesn't peep on you. It somehow goes with POST and checks your hardware. If certain things have changed, you need to reactivate Windows. Take 10 minutes, if you end up calling, 2 minutes if you don't need to.

Now, putting in print that Apple has scored another success is always risky business. Such an assertion inevitably invites a shower of e-mail pointing out that Macs are universally more expensive than Windows PC's (true for desktop machines, false for laptops); that far more software is available for Windows (true; "only" 6,500 programs are available for Mac OS X); and that the Apple hallmarks of elegance, beauty and thoughtful design aren't worth paying extra for (a matter of opinion).

Risk? E-mail? Can't your spam thing deal with it?
Give me a week and I can find tens of thousands of free programs made for Windows or Linux. Again, free. Don't let the free thing get you down, either. Shareware and freeware rule the maintenance (virus, spyware, etc.) market in both Linux and Windows for a reason. Being free doesn't make it bad. If you spend more then $1000 on a laptop that doesn't have an Athlon 64 (whatever the laptop model is called) in it, you probably got ripped off.

So what u think of that. Tell me what u think.

.50 and .00.
Of course, Linux is better than both and doesn't have big brothers Jobs or Gates looking after me.
Maybe I need to afford the expenditure rather than rationalize it.
There are free video and audio chat programs for Windows (Windows\MSN Messenger, comes with Windows XP) and Linux (and compatible Mac versions too). Did I mention they're free (Messenger comes with XP and I think you can download it for some older versions)?

Finally, surely there's value in using an operating system that, well, isn't Windows. Mac OS X isn't just free of viruses; it's also free from copy protection, "activation" (a Windows XP feature that transmits information about your PC back to Microsoft), and pop-up messages that nag you to sign up for some Microsoft database or clean up your icons. When you use Mac OS X, you feel like it's yours; when you use Windows, you feel as though you're using someone else's toys, and Mrs. Microsoft keeps peeking in on you.

Yeah there's some value. So use Linux. Value without price.
Windows XP is good enough that people will pirate it. And activation doesn't peep on you. It somehow goes with POST and checks your hardware. If certain things have changed, you need to reactivate Windows. Take 10 minutes, if you end up calling, 2 minutes if you don't need to.

Now, putting in print that Apple has scored another success is always risky business. Such an assertion inevitably invites a shower of e-mail pointing out that Macs are universally more expensive than Windows PC's (true for desktop machines, false for laptops); that far more software is available for Windows (true; "only" 6,500 programs are available for Mac OS X); and that the Apple hallmarks of elegance, beauty and thoughtful design aren't worth paying extra for (a matter of opinion).

Risk? E-mail? Can't your spam thing deal with it?
Give me a week and I can find tens of thousands of free programs made for Windows or Linux. Again, free. Don't let the free thing get you down, either. Shareware and freeware rule the maintenance (virus, spyware, etc.) market in both Linux and Windows for a reason. Being free doesn't make it bad. If you spend more then 00 on a laptop that doesn't have an Athlon 64 (whatever the laptop model is called) in it, you probably got ripped off.

So what u think of that. Tell me what u think.

I think that this is kind of a pointless article. It brings to mind a Mad TV character. Mac users tend to argue that their OS is the best by putting in a complicated form the line "Look what I can do!" Nothing that I can't do cheaper and better on Linux or Windows, I'm not saying that Mac is pointless, it certainly is easier to use than Linux or Windows. But if you don't make more money than you know what to do with, or you want to use some of the best software out there (i.e. Windows games not made for Mac); then Mac is just a poor choice.
Damn I need to find a better use of my time....
Took me over half an hour to write this is a forum that doesn't seem much use.

[Beefy]

You've obviously just come in here to stir up trouble, and after reading that, I'm not interested in replying. Closing.