8800gt\gtx g80 speeds\pipes

[bf2nut]

i have a feeling that a single 8800gtx will be faster then 2 7900gtx,s in sli ,mabye even a 8800gt.ppl might wanna wait to upgrade and see how fast these new "g80,s"really are.and to be honest since nvidia came out with dual video cards making uqad sli possible i dont think ati even has a chance with 2 new rd600 cards vs the new series of quad sli nvidia monsters.im not a nvidia fanboy,i just go with whatever is faster period.same rule goes for amd vs intel,whatever is faster is bought.like the kentsfiled vs amd,s torrezna(4x4)war about to begin in q1 2007.with all these hi tech cpus and gpus this should be the best year for buyers .were talking conroes,7800gtx,7900gtx should be really low in price so0n as the big cannons arrive nov\dec 06 into 2007,im excited.

[Munkul]

Re: 8800gt\gtx g80 speeds\pipes

well, ive been reading a lot of stuff about dx10 and how it simplifies processes and allows cards to do a lot more work.i dont know how much of it is just hype, but heh i cant afford to upgrade for a few years so its not bothering me much

[casecutter]

Re: 8800gt\gtx g80 speeds\pipes

1. ATI has been predicted to be faster by almost all reviewers, but we need a card for the proof. They are using unified shaders now so there are no more dedicated pixel pipes and shaders. That alone is a huge benefit that will eliminate the GPU bottleneck and create a CPU bottleneck.

2. I wouldn't get my hopes up too high that 7900/X19x0 series prices will drop much if at all for a long time as well.

3. The first G80 series cards are ridiculously power hungry and are probably best avoided unless you gotta have DX-10 before it is even available. THen second generation DX-10 cards are the ones to look for.

4. Quad SLI has never worked and is only useful for crazy high resolutions, even then it is shown to have little benefit. THe GX2 is an insane card for a single slot solution, but Quad SLI is a marketing gimmick that will never be made workable.

5. As for Quad core CPU's, they aren't even coding for dual cores yet, so that will be another useless upgrade to 99% of the world. Once they dump physics to the CPU and utilize the idle cores, we'll see the most benefits of multi core CPU's.

6. All in all, the last generation S939 CPU's are still fine for any game out and anything faster is wasted speed.

7. Finally, I believe we have seen the last of the real price cuts and these companies are looking to make more profits with the next gen stuff. Right now is the best time in history to buy PC parts, and I only see prices creeping back up or staying the same.

[buhweet]

Re: 8800gt\gtx g80 speeds\pipes

I agree casecutter, The monitors big enuf to play the hi res of quad sli have horrid response times anyway.

[NitOxYs]

Re: 8800gt\gtx g80 speeds\pipes

1. ATI has been predicted to be faster by almost all reviewers, but we need a card for the proof. They are using unified shaders now so there are no more dedicated pixel pipes and shaders. That alone is a huge benefit that will eliminate the GPU bottleneck and create a CPU bottleneck.

Totally Disagree with that. If you had read the post by Microsoft's developer, then you would have read that unifiying the industry was
A. To make microsoft more powerful
B. To make the card less independent of the CPU, rather than the card. With 128 Steam Pixel shaders, it can handle most physics and graphics WITHOUT need for CPU. I read the entire article.

[Munkul]

Re: 8800gt\gtx g80 speeds\pipes

that is true, i read that article too.
on some forums, people predict ati's offering to trouce nvidia's, but i think its beacuse most of them are fanboys
but if history repeats itself, then ati's will be faster

[casecutter]

Re: 8800gt\gtx g80 speeds\pipes

The current CPU's cannot feed the G80 enough data for it to run full bore. Period. Previous GPU's were the limiting factor. Quad core CPU's, once they have the proper software pushing them, are going to be the first CPU that can handle the Unified Architecture.

As for anything making Microsoft more powerful, are you another one of those anarchists? OMG, Bill Gates is gonna take over the world.......

If anything, the CPU/GPU world is pushing towards the CPU and GPU being on the same die and working together that way. Instead of telling me about an article I did not read, why not actually link to it so that I can see if I read it. If I have not read it I would. Then I would comment further.

[Munkul]

Re: 8800gt\gtx g80 speeds\pipes

With 128 Steam Pixel shaders, it can handle most physics and graphics WITHOUT need for CPU. I read the entire article.

THAT is what you missed. a C2D and a 8800gtx will be so fast that noone is gonna care if the CPU is "bottlenecking" or not anyway, though

[casecutter]

Re: 8800gt\gtx g80 speeds\pipes

Those unified shaders are sure very powerful, but what do you think send the data to those shaders? The software cannot speak to the video card all by itself. The CPU still is the first link that distributes instructions to the peripherals. The CPU WILL be a bottleneck. Upcoming physics WILL need extra computing power and will make use of as many CPU and GPU cores as you have available. Just look up the demo's for Wake Forest. You guys can think what you want as well as I can do the same. But if you read what game developers say, you will see just how CPU dependant games are going to become.

THAT is what you missed. a C2D and a 8800gtx will be so fast that noone is gonna care if the CPU is "bottlenecking" or not anyway, though

Do you even understand what a CPU bottleneck is?

[Munkul]

Re: 8800gt\gtx g80 speeds\pipes

.
Do you even understand what a CPU bottleneck is?

yup i do , i even concede your point that there WILL be bottlenecking, to an extent.
Right, the CPU pushes the data to the cards, which will admittedly become a much bigger workload. however, the unified shaders take RAW data from the cpu, not data that has already been processed, which takes SOME of the workload off the cpu.
ultimately, there will be a rise in processing for the cpu, but no more bottlenecking than there has been in previous generations of hardware, given the speed increase of the c2d architecture.
then again, this is my informed opinion, that is prone to wrongness

[casecutter]

Re: 8800gt\gtx g80 speeds\pipes

Either way, it is painfully obvious that software companies are either going to dump the physics on either
a. a slave third PCI-E card or
b. a multi core processor.

Right now, the CPU is almost a non issue in almost all games. Even the graphics are not dependent on the CPU. The GFX cards just cannot process the information fast enough since there are only so many shaders and pixel pipelines. The next generation video cards (DX-10) are the first with unified shaders that are not reliant on these limitations, and they will rely heavily on the CPU to get them the information fast enough. I could care less what nitoxys says since not only does he not have the grasp of what it takes to run future games, he is also claiming it is a microsoft conspiracy. That fact alone tells me he is out of his mind and need to read things other than conspiracy theories.

Future games will be heavily dependant on multi core CPU's, and future video cards with unified shaders will also be heavily dependent on CPU power since they will easily outprocess ANY CPU. GPU's are already much more powerful than CPU's, and the trend is to unite them into one die. That is the main reason AMD bought ATI. They are looking to the future.

8800 cards are a complete waste of money anyways. There won't be any DX-10 software out for some time still, and they are costing roughly twice what they should. Nvidia rushed them to market since ATI was handing them their asses with the X1900 cards. So far, ATI is playing the cool caluclated game by NOT rushing DX-10 stuff out the door, and even if Nvidia manages to get ANOTHER series out before ATI does, the winner in the end will be the card that is not stupidly priced. 8800's are really only good for benchmark scores at the moment.

[AsianBatman]

Re: 8800gt\gtx g80 speeds\pipes

Off topic, munkul what revision if your venice?

[Yawgm0th]

Re: 8800gt\gtx g80 speeds\pipes

A few things...

1. Multi-threaded games already exist, and many more are being made. A few examples:
Call of Duty 2
Quake 4 (and possibly other Doom 3-based games)
Company of Heroes
Alan Wake
Source engine
Crysis
Almost all cross-platform titles seen on PS3/X360

2. Future games are going to be heavily dependent on the number of logical CPUs as well as their relative speeds, regardless of the video card. Hyperthreading beats single-core, dual-core beats Hyperthreading, quad-core beats dual-core. By 2008, there will be several titles out that require hyperthreading or dual-core.

3. To say that 8800 series cards are relatively overpriced is ignorant. Top of the line AMD cards cost 0-10% less than 8800 series cards that provide 40-100% performance improvement. The cards are priced quite appropriately with that in mind. I certainly would like to see them come way down, but what's good for the consumer and what's good for Nvidia and its OEMs are two very different things.

4. Nvidia was hardly losing prior to the 8800 series. ATI/AMD did and still doeshave the upper-hand at more price points, but Nvidia was doing fine and still is. Nvidia did okay even during the GeForce 5 vs. Radeon 9 days, and ATI's cards were much, much better than their nVidia counterparts at all price points. This last generation was at least competitive. Personally, I'd take a GeForce 7 series card over an ATI X1900 series card due to lower power consumption alone. Performance differences are negligible at most price points, though AMD has a commanding lead in most mid-range and entry-level price points IMO.

5. Even 8800s are not often CPU-limited. Anyone with an 8800 series card now is likely using it with a monitor capable of displaying 1920x1200, 2048x1586, 1920x1080, or higher. At these resolutions, any Core 2 Duo and most Athlon 64s are more than sufficient, and the GPU becomes the limitation, even with 8800 series cards. Some games in particular are incredibly GPU-limited. For example, Neverwinter Nights 2 can use a mid-range CPU and still see significant performance improvements with any GPU upgrades, right up to 8800GTXs. Basically, an 8800 series card is not necessarily going to be bottlenecked by the CPU. The system can do what these cards need. This will change with multi-threaded games, but for now there is no stopping the GPU bottleneck. Even SLI 8800s can be handled.

6. AMD is not playing a "cool calculated game." That's just fanboy talk. AMD's next-gen cards are not ready. Nvidia's were ready first. That's all there is to it. Perhaps AMD's cards will be better, or will be more affordably priced. For now, AMD is not competing with Nvidia for top-of-the line cards or for DirectX 10, and that is a victory, even if a temporary one.

[Munkul]

Re: 8800gt\gtx g80 speeds\pipes

Off topic, munkul what revision if your venice?

LOL, quite a bit "off topic"!
i dont know, can i find out though cpu-z? not too chuffed about taking off my waterblock really :p

and why? can you help me get some more speed out of it?

[casecutter]

Re: 8800gt\gtx g80 speeds\pipes

Show me 1 link to ANY ATI card costing $700, or even $500. There are none. To me, 8800's are far too overpriced. No video card should cost $700. The GTS is not too badly overpriced, but the GTX is just far too expensive. And almost any game that is currently able to use more than 1 CPU core has been patched to do so and not designed from scratch to do so. Most of those games you list are not out and are actually designed to use multi cores from the start so they will definitely shine.

As for fanboyism, I still think ATI's recent cards have been overpriced as well. I have run almost every conceivable combination of ATI/Nvidia Crossfire/SLI in the last few years and the money it takes to game smoothly over 1280X1024 is just crazy. Sure it is my fault for going with ultra high res monitors and such, but it would be nice to find 1 card for around $300 that could play most any game with some AA and AF above 1280X1024. Even with my current 7900GS, it struggles @ 1650X1080 with any AA and AF. Fortunately, the GS is a relatively cheap card so SLI isn't expensive. Either way, I sure hope this inquiry into video card prices being conducted gets the prices of mid high to high end video cards gets them down to more realistic prices. You can call me ignorant all you want. but it is you that is ignorant to be so willing to call those prices fair.