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amd_demon
12-13-2001, 11:52 AM
Okay, what is the easiest, most efficient and most reliable to back up a server..Set hard drives in a raid configuration, or norton ghost? We are running NT Server. Thanks for the info. Laters.

Wiggo
12-13-2001, 12:05 PM
Going the RAID 1 route it's done straight away and is the most effective way of backing up. ;)
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Kheldar
12-13-2001, 12:41 PM
there are at least 2 different issues here.

1. is server uptime

2. backup

Raid while good is not a backup system, raid is designed to do 2 things, 1. give you a bigger HD, 2. Provide redundancy so that your server can keep running

the best raid system is raid 5 (requires min 3 HD's ), this gives extra space & redundency


2. Backup - the best software that i know off is seagate backup exec - note most databases have to be stopped before they can be backed up

Albinus
12-13-2001, 12:42 PM
RAID-1 is the simplest and most cost effective way to get redundancy, when one drive dies, replace it and the array rebuilds itself. Simple! :)

Kheldar
12-13-2001, 12:44 PM
still its not a backup solution

Albinus
12-13-2001, 12:48 PM
soz Kheldar didn't see your reply - you're too quick - I must be going :crazy:

Kheldar
12-13-2001, 12:53 PM
if for example you have a fire (like whats supposed to have happend to TT) then all your stuff is gone

Kheldar
12-13-2001, 12:55 PM
soz Kheldar didn't see your reply - you're too quick - I must be going :crazy:

I think we replied at the same time

sKuLLsHoT
12-13-2001, 08:09 PM
tape drives or somefin like that are pretty simple to get goin, we use ArcServe at work, but I am CERTAIN there are better options out there for backups...:hmph:

amd_demon
12-13-2001, 09:54 PM
I have heard tape drives work sometimes and other times they don't. We need the most reliable. Thanks for the info. Laters.

RDR
12-13-2001, 10:03 PM
I have heard tape drives work sometimes and other times they don't. We need the most reliable. Thanks for the info. Laters.

that's like saying some PC's work and other's don't

If you get a decent one & set it up right - it works all the time

of course the tape needs to be stored offsite or its a waste of time

All of our file servers have redundancy through RAID - To prevent an interuption in service in the event of a drive failure, and a tape backup every 24hrs.

DigitalDD
12-13-2001, 10:31 PM
that's like saying some PC's work and other's don't

If you get a decent one & set it up right - it works all the time

of course the tape needs to be stored offsite or its a waste of time

All of our file servers have redundancy through RAID - To prevent an interuption in service in the event of a drive failure, and a tape backup every 24hrs.

RDR,

you forgot the most important thing IMHO and that is to test your backup strategy by doing test restores every so often from a good backup set. Most admins never do these especially full restores to a test server which if successful at least tell you that in an emergency you can just install the O/S & backup software on a new server and do a full resotre of all the data on the new server.

At the very least you have to make sure you can do test restores of single files and directories..

kygeek
12-14-2001, 12:52 AM
Yes Tape backup, DL4 Tape from ADIC, they have serveral options and are great.Archserve and Backup exec are the leaders in software.

RDR
12-14-2001, 01:30 AM
At the very least you have to make sure you can do test restores of single files and directories..

test be damned...

we have to do actual restores of several large database files - on a regular basis.

It seems a particular 3rd party interface for Access that we use is particularly succeptable to corruption - of course their support dept. blames our network - which is bullsh!t:angryfire:
I think we're just overworking Access & probably should be using SQL - not a cheap switch to make...damn Microshaft:shoot2:


what was I talking about again......:confused:

sKuLLsHoT
12-14-2001, 06:16 AM
interesting, what is the name of the software that uses the database you speak of...are you running win2k server?

as we have a few clients using some software that we provide support for that is built with a Access db, and an SQL option...we founf that there is a correlation between win2ks and the corruption, nt4 and access or sql, or win2ks and sql databases all remain in tact...

RDR
12-14-2001, 07:49 PM
Originally we had the database on an NT4 server w/ all NT4 work stations running it locally - one of the first things we did was make sure all the WS's were runnning the same Windows & latest SP - we were getting a corruption message approx. once per month - most times repairing the corruption didn't result in any data loss - but if it did we had to rebuild the database from the last B/U or just use the last B/U as is.

We recently switched to a small dedicated Win2000 terminal server & have the WS's log into dumb sessions - so far weve had no corruption issues - although I must admit I find the whole W2K Server/terminal server licencing set up to be a real pain/semi-mystery - if you know of any good Win2000 Terminal Server reference resources - I would be forever in your debt.

teminal server is a much better enviroment for this app. - you don't have a 150MB database files flying all over the network & colliding at the server - much better/faster performance & we even set up a couple of old P90's as dumb terminals in the boardroom - the min. requirement to run the software locally is 300MHz

the Application is called JobBOSS - the company is based in Mn,USA - they have both an Access & SQL solution with the same/similar front end interface.

Where I work - we don't have anybody with formal IT training - i'ts mostly learn-by-doing, for myself and one other employee, so it can be frustrating at times

DigitalDD
12-14-2001, 08:40 PM
test be damned...

we have to do actual restores of several large database files - on a regular basis.

It seems a particular 3rd party interface for Access that we use is particularly succeptable to corruption - of course their support dept. blames our network - which is bullsh!t:angryfire:
I think we're just overworking Access & probably should be using SQL - not a cheap switch to make...damn Microshaft:shoot2:


what was I talking about again......:confused:

How about MySQL or PostGreSQL running on Linux on the server side, still much cheaper than M$ SQL or Oracle.. But I guess what you end up with depends more on what the management people decide on not what the Technical Team wants.. :hmph:

DigitalDD
12-14-2001, 08:54 PM
Originally we had the database on an NT4 server w/ all NT4 work stations running it locally - one of the first things we did was make sure all the WS's were runnning the same Windows & latest SP - we were getting a corruption message approx. once per month - most times repairing the corruption didn't result in any data loss - but if it did we had to rebuild the database from the last B/U or just use the last B/U as is.

We recently switched to a small dedicated Win2000 terminal server & have the WS's log into dumb sessions - so far weve had no corruption issues - although I must admit I find the whole W2K Server/terminal server licencing set up to be a real pain/semi-mystery - if you know of any good Win2000 Terminal Server reference resources - I would be forever in your debt.

teminal server is a much better enviroment for this app. - you don't have a 150MB database files flying all over the network & colliding at the server - much better/faster performance & we even set up a couple of old P90's as dumb terminals in the boardroom - the min. requirement to run the software locally is 300MHz

the Application is called JobBOSS - the company is based in Mn,USA - they have both an Access & SQL solution with the same/similar front end interface.

Where I work - we don't have anybody with formal IT training - i'ts mostly learn-by-doing, for myself and one other employee, so it can be frustrating at times

I think the problem is that Win9x/NT4 terminal Server clients don't relinquish the licenses that they take up after the users logout of the Terminal Server. Since you are running 2000's terminal Server I know of one hotfix that can save you quite a few TS CALs.. go here for more info: http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q287/6/87.asp

for all i know you may have already applied this fix. There's also a min-FAQ on Microsoft's Knowledgebase which might have something that applies to your situation..
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q294/6/55.ASP

I had a hell of a time when we had Win9x clients using multiple licenses for each machine accessing the terminal server at work.. I had to call the Microsoft clearinghouse to buy licenses and just before they were going to get money out of my company the sales rep suggested we try something and we figured out that some Laptops were using multiple connection types to access the terminal Server from Win98 laptops [Thats one license for VPN connection, one for RAS, & one for LAN connection when the person was in the office..].

RDR
12-14-2001, 10:10 PM
How about MySQL or PostGreSQL running on Linux on the server side, still much cheaper than M$ SQL or Oracle.. But I guess what you end up with depends more on what the management people decide on not what the Technical Team wants.. :hmph:

the 3rd party interface we use only works with MS - & I am Management - we don't have a technical team :D

The Wizard
12-15-2001, 04:36 AM
we use ARCServe IT (soon to be ARCServe 2000 w00h00!!) with an Exabyte 230D DLT 35/70 library, 2.3TB storage, UltraWide Differential SCSI, phat phat phat phat phat, the unit was like 26 grand with tapes. we used it to backup everything from file servers to Exchange 5.5 servers, ARCServe IT and 2000 are quite capable of backing up SQL servers, (while onine) and even exchange databases (while online also) which are just a couple huge files that store all your mail within.

Mephistopheles
01-08-2002, 09:31 AM
Would JobBoss happen to be sold by Lawson Software?

RDR
01-08-2002, 08:28 PM
Would JobBoss happen to be sold by Lawson Software?

Kewill Industries...

Olie
01-09-2002, 08:56 PM
2.3TB storage, UltraWide Differential SCSI,


you now officially have the most storage space