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View Full Version : A Warning to anyone buying Drives or Building a system WITHO



zeradul
08-17-2002, 12:08 AM
Sure we've had the discussions and whatnot, and I'm sure Wiggo's linked this page, but I did not realize the leap in performance we are about to witness. :eek: :eek:

This is a rant written about Maxtor's stupid adoption of ATA133, and why no other brands jumped on the bandwagon, as well as a very thorough discussion on the capability of Serial ATA. I suggest you read it in its entirety.

http://www.amdmb.com/article-display.php?ArticleID=151

Its not that long of an article, so you might as well read it, but here are a few highlights:

ATA133 is pointless, in more ways then one.

ATA33 was great, and with the advent of DMA, things were looking up for the long grey ribbon. Then came ATA66 and people started noticing something, it wasn't really "66." Of course, when -33 came out it was such a drastic improvement over previous IDE data transfer methods that no one bothered to notice that it wasn't "33."

Then came along ATA100 and everyone knew not to expect much out of it. It used the same cable as ATA66 did, and after being let down by ATA66 we just weren't ready to jump on the bandwagon of hypothetical speed. While -66 is faster then -33, -100 didn't really show much improvement.

[b]Even with a 7200RPM drive and a low seek time, it was impossible for anyone to burst to 100. In fact, most -66 and -100 drives have trouble bursting to -45.

So, what's the point of ATA133 in terms of speed? There is no point, no one will be able actually achieve that kind of speed, even if they have the right cable, IDE card and hard drive. Plain and simple, if you were thinking of replacing your -66 with a -133, don't bother, wait for Serial ATA to come out and then upgrade.

[b]Serial ATA really will be to hard drives what fiber optics was to telecommunications.

HackofDestruct
08-17-2002, 10:44 AM
yeah that is true but its a bragging right, i like to say yeah its a ata 100 and not and ata66 its just to boost the ego, and anyways maybe you getlucky and you get stuff that gets the speeds then you got a faster machine you know B

Wiggo
08-17-2002, 12:09 PM
It's like, "I've got an 8MB cache WD hard drive", now that's a bragging right. :D
<center>:beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:</center>

zeradul
08-17-2002, 12:57 PM
Do you doubt the performance increase of S-ATA or are you commenting on the futility of ATA133? :?:

In the case of the 8MB WD drives, I think there is a TON more gained by the 8MB drives than anything involved with the ATA133 standard. No benchmark yet has claimed an ATA133 situation to be faster than the ATA100 counterpart.

Either way, ATA133, ATA100, and all previous versions are dead. Serial ATA is king of the hill, and don't upgrade without it.

Wiggo
08-17-2002, 02:19 PM
On the ATA133 actually, it's only really now that we may see an improvement from ATA66 to ATA100 but the little will only be by cache burst and higher density storage rates.
Serial ATA will be very good but I think I'll wait for my "Clawhammer" setup maybe late next year. ;)

E^vol
08-18-2002, 09:10 PM
ok, here's a question...

i'm getting a new kt400 mainboard (as soon as it's available)
i'll get it with serial ata.

--> can i use my current ata-133 (maxtor) hd at the same time as a new serial ata drive ? (when i eventually get one)

(i know it won't run as fast, but it'll be for the extra storage)

Wiggo
08-18-2002, 09:17 PM
It looks like most manfacturers so far are supporting both. ;)
:beer: :beer: :beer:

E^vol
08-18-2002, 09:19 PM
sweet....:clap:

zeradul
08-19-2002, 04:25 AM
Yes, S-ATA will be completely backwards compatable, as long as you buy the right dongles, but I still think it won't be any faster. And not nearly as fast as just having everything in S-ATA. That is the impression I got from the article.

Most of us aren't real fond of Maxtor, so if you can possibly return your drive and wait for a better brand, and a version supporting S-ATA I think you will thank us. If not though, I'm sure it will make a fine storage drive as long as you keep it cool.

E^vol
08-19-2002, 05:02 AM
Ya, it'll be my main drive for a couple months, then I'll get a new Serial-ATA HD....But I'll keep this Maxtor for extra storage.

Ehhe Yebeb
08-20-2002, 08:46 PM
But S-ATA is coming out at 150MB/s right? are we going to see drives consitently getting this fast? i mean its very good for an ATA100 drive to benchmark 40MB/s in a RAID0 setup.

S-ATA is also set to top out at a 'THEORETICAL' speed of 600MB/s. The way things have gone so far, when S-ATA 600 drives are out, we might actually see them break 150MB/s. I agree about ATA133 being a joke, as is ATA100 and even 66 for that matter. An ATA100 drive, transfers slower than 33MB/s (as does an ATA133) WTF is that crap.

zeradul
08-20-2002, 10:20 PM
An ATA100 drive, transfers slower than 33MB/s (as does an ATA133) WTF is that crap.
Yea, You should read that article I linked to.... :?:

HackofDestruct
08-20-2002, 11:31 PM
is all s-ata hot swapable

Morgan_Lander
08-21-2002, 05:22 AM
I believe so.

E^vol
08-27-2002, 10:38 AM
how much will these SATA drives cost ?? that's a good question....no ??

Birdkiller
08-27-2002, 10:48 AM
according to major PC assemblers in australia serial ATA will not be mainstream until mid next year. so i would guess it wont be too affordable till then.

zeradul
08-27-2002, 12:06 PM
Really? That late? Hmm.... I wonder when they will be avaliable here in the US... and I was kinda under the assumtion that they won't be Too much more expensive? But am i wrong?

Gilad
08-27-2002, 04:00 PM
They are supposed to be priced 20% more than ATA100 drives.

Wiggo
08-27-2002, 04:37 PM
Well there ya go, so I'm stickin' with gettin' a WD800JB 80 GB 8MB cache hard drive (http://www.westerndigital.com/products/Products.asp?DriveID=32) then. :p
<center>:cheers:</center>

Ehhe Yebeb
08-27-2002, 04:47 PM
I guess that isnt so bad since normal ATA drives are very affordable now. Also will serial ATA have consisten 150MB/s transfer speed because if it does it will certainly be worth that exta %20. Until then ill stick with seagate ATA100

zeradul
08-29-2002, 01:53 AM
Whew!, 20% is nothing. Excellent. I'm glad I've waited.

E^vol
08-29-2002, 06:13 AM
Well there ya go, so I'm stickin' with gettin' a WD800JB 80 GB 8MB cache hard drive (http://www.westerndigital.com/products/Products.asp?DriveID=32) then. :p
<center>:cheers:</center>

Wiggo, how much is the drive in kangaroo money ?? :laugh:
I'm going to buy one with next week's upgrade (finally) for $186+tax cdn.

Gilad
08-29-2002, 03:51 PM
I'll wait several months after the first products will be introduced and only then get one. Until then I'm sticking to my raid cfg.

bigjackusa
08-30-2002, 02:24 AM
I can't beleive alll of you guys are talking like serial ATA is something new that just popped up. It's been planned, talked about, and spec'ed for a couple of years now. Yeh, drives have now been demo'ed and mobo makers are showing boards with support for it. It won't be at Best Buy next week! If you need or want a new drive now, buy one now. By the time they accually arrive for sale, all of the questions will have been answered without us having to guess or speculate now.

zeradul
08-30-2002, 03:52 AM
Fiber Optics have been around for 20 years now, but as I upgrade to a Fiber Network, I'll be pretty excited about it.

Gilad
08-30-2002, 11:47 PM
:)