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airman3_16
08-21-2002, 03:41 PM
I've never thought about cooling HDs before I heard about the IBM drives dying to heat failure. On my previous comps I never used cooling and the drive have lasted me years and still going. I'm planning on returning the IBM GXP drive for safety but still I plan on using a cooler my next drive just to be safe . What coolers would you recommend? I haven't seen too many reviews on HD cooling.

Darthtanion
08-21-2002, 09:10 PM
Thermaltake and Antec are two companies I'm aware of right off that make hard drive coolers. There are others as well so you have some choices.

Of course, I still prefer to use an 80mm fan to cool mine. Most of the good Antec cases have this capability. :)

pga1234
08-21-2002, 10:55 PM
If you want a harddrive cooler (which have been proven to work) go to www.1coolpc.com and click on the link "Hard disk drives" and pick up one of the "Little-hddHO-FAN". This will most likely cool your hardrive. Here's its specs:

28 CFM air flow
31 dba
125x100x14mm (L x W x H)
Dual 60mm fans
4 pin pass-thru connector
Installs directly on the Hard Drive

That sounds like enough air flow doesnt it? Along with other fans in your case it should be fine...

If you want something that can tell you the temps go and get one of Thermaltakes hard cano series.

drpeterbright
08-21-2002, 11:51 PM
I use a bay cooler & I also got it from 1coolpc.com.

FLaCo
08-22-2002, 12:36 AM
I use two Vantec HD coolers that are very nice. Its an aluminum heatsink with two 40mm fans. Real good, and cheap around 6-8 bucks (USD). I got mine at newegg.com.

I believe having one 80mm and placing one or to HD's on a drive bay box most Antec case clones come with should be great. That really does the job...i think it does a better job than the HD cooler themselves...at least thats how it feels to the touch.

drpeterbright
08-22-2002, 01:25 AM
Have measured the diffeence in temps FLACO?

The__tweaker
08-22-2002, 06:57 AM
Whitch temperature is normal on a 7200 rpm modern hdd?
My new Maxtor runs quite hot. I have only one system fan in my case, it's an 80 mm outtake in the back of the case. There is not possible to mount any intake fans without moddin the case...
I think it was the heat that killed my ibm drive, may god rest his soul... Shell i maybe buy a hdd cooler, or "make" one myself of an big 80 mm cooler? Dunno but i really like the Zalman fans, quiet and performs well. Any ideas what's best?
It's around 40c in my case.

:geek:

drpeterbright
08-22-2002, 07:01 AM
A good bay fan can move over 40 cfm of air and should help that temp.

FLaCo
08-22-2002, 07:31 AM
PETER i haven't had an accurate reading but i can tell by the touch its much cooler with air directly hitting over and under it plus with the HD cooler it.

drpeterbright
08-22-2002, 08:24 AM
Since I have added my fans, I can hold my hand over the exhausts & tell the difference.

Darthtanion
08-22-2002, 11:19 AM
With my chosen method, my Sunon fan blows 42.5CFM air over the hard drive and also aids in the overall airflow of the case. :)

<div align="center"><img src="http://images.tweaktown.com/imagebank/x6000_21.jpg"></div>

drpeterbright
08-22-2002, 12:06 PM
Is it filtered as well Deputy D. ?

Darthtanion
08-22-2002, 12:11 PM
Yes. Check out the review of the Antec PLUS1080 case and you'll see it. Both front fans are filtered.

drpeterbright
08-22-2002, 12:22 PM
Yes, I see that. I think that particular solution is the best for HD cooling if your case allows it.

FLaCo
08-22-2002, 12:42 PM
Thats exactly how i have mine...but with HD coolers as well...but there is really no need for both and prolly perfer Darth's example out of the two options.

The reason why i have both is because i didn't know much about the case's interior and didn't know that fan was located where the drives went...two hd's can be setup there and get cooled very well tho the purpose of the case cooling part forget it... since two hd's on there will block the airflow to the rest of the case.

zeradul
08-22-2002, 01:34 PM
Both front fans are filtered. Actualy Darth, the Filter does not even come close to covering the top fan completely. The upper third of the fan is left unfiltered, not to mention the entire filter is a horrible design which leaves a 5mm gap ALL the way around the filter, so when even when the filter is clean, most of the air rushes around it, not to mention, when the filter gets slightly dirty the air will completely stop going through it and therefore defeat the purpose of the filter. Not only not filtering the air, but acting as a barrier to the air.

Did you not see this when you were writing your review? You should go back and add it in, along with a few pictures of the culprit. I know you haven't used filters much in the past, so you probably weren't inspecting it like you would if you had made it yourself. But don't take offense, no other reviewer noticed it either.

A filter by simply how it works, restricts air flow. Therefore, it can only be effecive if a seal exists. If a seal does not exist, the air will find the path of least resistence, and go around.

zeradul
08-22-2002, 01:36 PM
i didn't know much about the case's interior
Thats what reviews are for! ;)

FLaCo
08-22-2002, 10:56 PM
I know i was a complete newb tho...

drpeterbright
08-23-2002, 01:20 AM
And we have all learned something.

FLaCo
08-23-2002, 07:06 AM
Yes plenty...and keep on too!

drpeterbright
08-23-2002, 07:30 AM
Essentially that's one of the major points of TWEAKTOWN:

1. Learn Something

2. Have Fun

3. Make a Fool out of Yourself (Ooops - That one's for me.)

4. Hook up with Georgeous Geek Babes

5. Etc.

Darthtanion
08-23-2002, 11:48 AM
zeradul,

For whatever reason, it seems that you have determined to try your best at undermining everything that I post here. So be it... that is perfectly fine as I have no problem with standing behind my findings, but I for one would be greatly appreciative if you would take a look at the story line before you post your digs.

To tackle the first of your claims, the top fan is fully covered by the filter element. If you have a case that is displaying something otherwise, then it likely has the wrong filter installed.

Secondly, the gap between the filter and the fan is not that large an issue. Considering that the filter goes well to the left and right of the fans, the airflow is still going to be drawn through the filter element. The exception to this would be if the filter was not cleaned regularly. Then your comments would be accurate in that the airflow would find a way around the filtering device. But let's face it... if you aren't cleaning your filters at least once a week, then you're partially defeating the whole purpose of having them. And what would happen if that same slovenly lug had a tight fitting filter and didn't keep it clean? There would be basically no input of cool air at all. I'd rather have dirty airflow than no airflow.

Finally, I will disagree with your blanket statement that a filtering element is only effective if a seal exists. Try using this terrible filtration system for a week and then pull the filter element and tell me that it is not effective. Though your insight of air traveling the path of least resistance has some merit, it is also true that it will attempt to get to where it is directed by the shortest possible means. This is a simple fact of nature. This means that a significant amount of air will be traveling through the filter as evidenced by the amount of gunk that accumulates in just a few days. Granted, in a perfect world there would be a perfect seal, but considering that we have a company that has created an easy to use filtration system shows a certain amount of foresight that seems to be lacking in a majority of the enclosures on the market today. That said, I will stand behind the remarks and ratings that I gave the case when I reviewed it.

So go ahead and find something else to say... I'm sure you will and I stand ready. Fire at will. :hmph:

drpeterbright
08-23-2002, 11:59 AM
But have you put your blindfold on? I think it's all useful information.

pga1234
08-23-2002, 12:17 PM
Fight!, Fight!, Fight! lol j/k

What's the point of arguing? Where's that picture when you need it? Anyway let him think what he will what do you care? Just a waste of time...

Darthtanion
08-23-2002, 12:37 PM
True, but sometimes one has to put a foot down. And my apologies to forum members for seeing me get a little tacky.

pga1234
08-23-2002, 01:04 PM
Hehe...

No more :argue: just :cheers:.

drpeterbright
08-23-2002, 09:05 PM
Tacky - No way - All of us get along here - RIGHT?

zeradul
08-25-2002, 03:30 PM
it seems that you have determined to try your best at undermining everything that I post here. Not at all. What have I done apart from posting facts and observations? Can your findings not withstand debate?


To tackle the first of your claims, the top fan is fully covered by the filter element. I'm sorry Darth, its not. And this one is easy. Please get out a ruler and measure your filter from the top to the bottom of the 'clip'. Ok, now open your case and measure to the top of the second fan position. You can take your front bezel off if you wish, the measurement will be the same. Since the filter sits flush with the base of the case comparing these two measurements will proove what is True.

I have done this already, and you can verify it if you want Darth, but the filter is exactly 7.5 inches tall, and the top of the holes of the second fan position are 8 and 3/16ths inch off the base. Which means, the top two rows are completely unfiltered, which means 20% of the air never has a chance to go through the filter. Anyone else with this case can feel free to verify this as well!


if you aren't cleaning your filters at least once a week Holy! Once a week? Thats awful high maintenece!! I mean, how often do you change your central air filter?? Or your car air filter?!


And what would happen if that same slovenly lug had a tight fitting filter and didn't keep it clean? There would be basically no input of cool air at all. I see your point here, and it is a good (and very sad) one. Your point is that everything needs to be designed for the complete Dolt. That point is somewhat valid if something valulable is at risk, however the only by-product of low air intake is instability as the system begins to overheat. The user surely would notice this happening long long before a fire would start, and with that said, the Dolt would have to figure out what was wrong and then fix it. And therefore we don't have to cut engineering corners for him. Either way, not that many fools are buying Antec cases, and you'd just have to warn them in the manual to clean their filters, and then design a good filter with a seal.

Or, just use a filter element that won't stop letting air through! I suggest a thin sheet of 'foam' as used in the digital doc's we are all familair with. I would make it thicker (1/4 inch) and then even when it was clogged to the max, some air would still be getting through. Cleaning is simple enough, you'd just take the foam out and rinse it like it was a dirty sponge.


Finally, I will disagree with your blanket statement that a filtering element is only effective if a seal exists. Thats too bad Darth, because that is a fact of Fluid Dynamics when the fluids in question have negligable mass. The only exception to this fact is when a fluid like water which is very dense, can be accelerated into a filter element, and then its momentum carries it through. Air however, weighs virtually nothing, and therefore it can TURN ON A DIME to go around ANY obstacle.


it is also true that it will attempt to get to where it is directed by the shortest possible means. This is a simple fact of nature. No, it is not. If that were true, then rivers would ALWAYS flow straight through their flood zones. But NONE do! And air is MUCH more disobediant to your 'fact of nature' because it lacks Mass.

Prooving that little air is actually going through the filter is easy as well! Please take out your filter, and now try to blow air through it as hard as you can. Keep your mouth at least an inch away and try to feel the breeze with your hand on the other side. Barely feel a thing ehh?? ;) Now move the filter and just blow air towards your hand. :D This is PROOF that without a seal, nearly ALL (90%+) of the air will go around the filter. But Don't take my word for it! Consult any physics or engineering source you wish, and bring us your findings!


considering that we have a company that has created an easy to use filtration system shows a certain amount of foresight that seems to be lacking in a majority of the enclosures on the market today. I agree completely! I know full-well that this is the Model A of factory filter designs in workstation cases, and I'm sure they will get better.


I will stand behind the remarks and ratings that I gave the case when I reviewed it. Don't get me wrong! I agree with your rating entirely, the Chenming/Uneec cases are clearly the best on the market no arguement there.

And please don't infer any anger or aggression, because I assure you, none exists.

The only qualm I have EVER had with you or your reviews was your rating of the Volcano 9. You did not adequatly rank it on par with the 7+'s of the world. As a reviewer surely you have to compare its performance to others availiable! I'm sure it 'gets the job done' but so do most heatsinks. When there are options avaliable that Defeat it in every category... Noise, Cooling ability, AND Price no new heatsink should earn higher than a 6. However we have discussed this elsewhere, and I know you see my points, so we don't have to discuss it here, unless you want to. And I insist, that is the only issue I have ever held against you.

The other items your reviews have convinced my to buy have been superb. 8KHA, 8KHA+, OCZ Gladiator, just to name a few.

drpeterbright
08-26-2002, 12:28 AM
You guys need to join a debating society. Opinions are allowed to be different.

zeradul
08-26-2002, 05:32 AM
Who claimed any different?

Dr. Peter, you don't seriously think that debating a computer related issue is less worthy of this forum than posting nonsense perverted comments in the BG-Games forum? Everyone knows post count means nothing. What does matter is the quality of your post content so please don't badger those who do post more than a sentence at a time.

drpeterbright
08-26-2002, 05:44 AM
Wasn't trying to badger you there Mr. z. The argument just seems more heated than necessary to me.

zeradul
08-26-2002, 05:55 AM
Ok, fair enough.

I am doing my best at conversing at the absolute calmest as possible. No name calling has occured or aggressive threats or anything usually associated with a heated arguement. It dissapoints me that it is still being interpreted as a heated arguement. This is nothing but a calm discussion, jovial even... if possible. ;)

drpeterbright
08-26-2002, 06:02 AM
Good for that. We don't need a cyberfight! I personally like hearing different sides of the question as often what I'm reading yes you're right, I agree etc. Opposing points of view help get all the information out there.

pga1234
08-26-2002, 07:39 AM
Well Mr. Z one thing you said isnt exactly true...


Thats too bad Darth, because that is a fact of Fluid Dynamics when the fluids in question have negligable mass. The only exception to this fact is when a fluid like water which is very dense, can be accelerated into a filter element, and then its momentum carries it through. Air however, weighs virtually nothing, and therefore it can TURN ON A DIME to go around ANY obstacle.

That statement will usually be true but in this case the fan is pulling the air through the filter... Therefore the air will not have as much freedom to do what it wants.

Oh yeah and your comment about the winding river thing is pretty simple to understand... Water goes downhill never uphill. So if when you see winding rivers notice that the banks are higher than the path it chose (e.i. A hill or mountian on the side of the river)? Water will NEVER go up a mountain or over a hill unless under different circumstances...



But like I said before why fight? I mean just state your view and get on with it no harch comments needed.

Drink up

:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Darthtanion
08-26-2002, 11:16 AM
It is a simple matter of two immovable people who will forever disagree on certain topics. I will, however, stand behind all my findings. And though it does seem that you have chosen mainly my comments to disagree with, if you state that this is not the case, then so be it.

Concerning your disapproval of my finding the V9 on par with the V7+, there were a few reasons behind this. First was the performance. While it may not be quite the cooler that the V7+ is, it still remains a very effective cooler in its own right.

Another reason was the price. At the time of the review, it was selling for roughly half what the V7+ goes for. I have long been an advocate of not being a scrooge when it comes to processor cooling, but in the case of the V9 it was enough of a difference with a very satisfactory end result that made me consider this.

Finally was the fan used on it. The 75CFM monster that also allowed you to adjust the speeds for noise control were awesome! While the V7+ is still an outstanding cooler, it doesn't have the sheer power that the V9 does. Also, the V7+ uses an off-sized 70mm model.

And I would have been happy to do a direct comparison between the two fans, but I no longer have the V7+ available to me. The results I garnered were done before some rather severe changes to my system, so it wouldn't be fair to use those old results.

zeradul
08-27-2002, 01:46 AM
I will, however, stand behind all my findings.
Then by all means, stand behind your findings, and respond to the errors that have been found in them.

zeradul
08-27-2002, 03:11 AM
response to pga1234:


in this case the fan is pulling the air through the filter... Therefore the air will not have as much freedom to do what it wants. Sorry, but there is no difference whatsoever. Pressure is pressure, and the physics of how the air will act are not dependant on if the air is moving away from a high pressure area or moving into a low pressure area. And if you read that sentence closely you will see that they are EXACTLY the same thing. :)


Water goes downhill never uphill. So if when you see winding rivers notice that the banks are higher than the path it chose I'm afraid you missed the end of my sentence. I said rivers never flow straight through their flood zones. Meaning that if a perfectly flat piece of land is set at just a bit of an angle, and then water is allowed to enter at a high point, the water will NEVER flow straight down the hill, unless the hill is really steep. Haven't you seen those science demos where they smooth out wet sand on a wooden tray and then have a fish tank pump, pump water up just to display how the water flows down through the sand? Proving that this next statement; is false.

"it is also true that it will attempt to get to where it is directed by the shortest possible means. This is a simple fact of nature."

drpeterbright
08-28-2002, 09:15 AM
I use a simpler solution with filters.

1. Filter all intakes.

2. Take reasonable care (without going nuts) to avoid gaps around intake fans.

3. Do not attempt to exhaust more air than you are intaking with those filtered intake fans.

4. Clean filters weekly.

5. Check the interior of the case periodically to ascertain that the filters are working by inspecting for dust.

6. Rethink # 2 if dust is found inside the case.

FLaCo
08-28-2002, 10:15 AM
I like the AV PETER:thumb:

drpeterbright
08-28-2002, 10:18 AM
Thanks FLACO . Having trouble deciding on one man. Maybe a poll is in order.

FLaCo
08-28-2002, 10:23 AM
Even though that makes you look like a chick ...its real cool..tho u perfer the "making out session" one.: peace2:

drpeterbright
08-28-2002, 10:27 AM
That is an inconsistency, but I have had trouble getting the "right" male anime figure that catches my essence.