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FLaCo
12-14-2002, 05:41 AM
Hi, i have a question about the whole serial ata raid thing.

My friend is set on buying the ASUS A7N8X Deluxe. I was onderif anyone knew if a trusty retailer sold serial ata adapters for ide HDrives?

That siad , would that work...making a raid 0 array on a serial ata raid controller with a couple if ide drives?

Thx alot

Darthtanion
12-14-2002, 06:24 AM
I don't think that there is such a thing, and even if there were... WHY?

I mean the whole reason to go with Serial ATA is the increased bandwidth. Maybe its just me, but it sounds kinda silly to get a Serial ATA rig and then throttle it down with a slower standard.

FLaCo
12-14-2002, 09:33 AM
Well there is an adapter...the new NF7-S comes with one because it only brings one IDE Channel.

I know it sounds silly...but what if you want raid...and that the only mobo you can use. Wouldn't you get the same amount of performance as a regular ide raid array?

Oh, BTW nice review on the TherMagic cooler...i figured was hype from the moment i saw it:thumb:

hkb
12-14-2002, 10:11 AM
In answer to the original? question. Abit's A7-MAX2 comes with space for up 8 hd's and 2serial ata that should act the same in a raid config.

There is an adapter to run an ata drive. They give one. Like anything I partially disagree with an earlier comment about using a slower drive on a faster port. I fly with the rule that if their is more available the drive will use it to the max. About 10 of us did drive comparisons and not one reached ata133.

If you want the truth, I sold the maxtor and the puppy company quantum's drives for the ata100 8mb cache edition WD's. None of us have seen anything faster and no problems! hardware wise. The only thing I could see better would be running 2 of those WD special ed's in a duel raid setup (raid 0). Then the only improvement I'll see is nothing AT ALL! Like a ram drive. Zip latency.

Before anyone throws my head against a wall, I was the biggest non-believer. This 'one' time I'm lucky to have listened to my freinds..

Abit makes the adapter to run a parallel drive through the serial ata, but I feel the fitting/40 pin connector is to loose to use to begin with. If that was fixed I'd be giving you some feedback on it's true performance. Numbers are at times, very misleading.

Best
Keith

Darthtanion
12-14-2002, 11:12 AM
I partially disagree with an earlier comment about using a slower drive on a faster port. I fly with the rule that if their is more available the drive will use it to the max. About 10 of us did drive comparisons and not one reached ata133.
While I agree wholeheartedly that you won't get ATA133 performance out of an ATA133 drive, the fact still remains that you're getting a technology capable of higher bandwidth and then strapping on an instant bottleneck. That's about the same as going out and buying a drag racer and then buying a 200 cubic inch 6-banger to power it on the strip.

And no, you won't reach the ceiling of theoretical bandwidth on Serial ATA devices either, but they still have the capability to do better than any of the current crop of IDE devices, and that includes the very remarkable WD Special Editions. It is simply a waste of available potential.

FLaCo
12-14-2002, 12:20 PM
In answer to the original? question. Abit's A7-MAX2 comes with space for up 8 hd's and 2serial ata that should act the same in a raid config.


Best
Keith

The At7-Max2 is an obvious pic but it does not support the new 2600+ 333 even with the latest B6 Bios Update...

Thats the only drawback i have with that board...is the 2600+ 333 support but the at7 max2 is a bad ass board...

I just would like 2600+ support with normal IDE raid array...forget the whole serial thing i am asking of i can get regular raid performance with that serial raid controller.

Wiggo
12-14-2002, 02:11 PM
Don't look for any performance benefits with Serial ATA as it still has to use the PCI bus atm which can't supply the bandwidth required by Serial ATA (or ATA133 RAID) anyway let alone everything else that has to use it. Serial ATAII is what we have to wait for to see any perform gain as this standard should be away from the PCI bus altogether. : peace2:

But Serial ATA RAID atm may possibly be slower than ATA133 RAID due to the drive converters though I have noticed some Seagate SerialATA drives kickin' about now but ATA133 RAID would be cheaper anyway. ;)
<center>:cheers:</center>

FLaCo
12-14-2002, 02:31 PM
So now he (my friend) is either going with the IT7-MAX 2 version 2.0 with a 2.53 Intel @ 533 with RAID or ASUS A7N8x w/ a 2600+ @333 with a WD SE...what would you guys go for?

Wiggo
12-14-2002, 02:47 PM
I hope that ya don't expect me to answer that with the contents of my sig do ya? :crazy:
<center>:cheers:</center>

FLaCo
12-14-2002, 03:11 PM
LOL...ya..i would go AMD too...and it will end up cheaper for him as well. It7=170 ASUS Nforce2 153

Intel 2.53 =238
AMD 2600+ 289

hkb
12-15-2002, 12:01 AM
While I agree wholeheartedly that you won't get ATA133 performance out of an ATA133 drive, the fact still remains that you're getting a technology capable of higher bandwidth and then strapping on an instant bottleneck.

Darth! This is why I wanted to stay out of this. I see things YOUR way. It was my choice at the time with no serial ata drives available.


[B]Posted by FLaCo The At7-Max2 is an obvious pic but it does not support the new 2600+ 333 even with the latest B6 Bios Update...

Of course it'll support 333, it's a major selling point-forward compatability. They must be slow with the bios update.
BUT!
Did you try setting the cpu & fsb speeds yourself instead of using default types? I've been playing with the multiplier and voltage on a 2400, but it appears to be a real open bios. Wish I could be of more help, can't be in 2 places at once right now, but I'd hate to see you throw a good choice out the window for an invalid reason. Or one that may not be as serious as thought.

As for the 2 serial ata connectors. They run in a raid setup same as other drives.

My last 5 boards over the years were 1-Abit and 4-Asus. And now I jumped back to Abit. I personally have never experienced this stability before, especially with my 'have to touch' and 'tweaky' nature.

Everyone has their pet peeves. It points out good and bad & helps us make better choices. As for me, I'm not made of that green stuff and these forums help me big time. So I hope I helped and didn't confuse the issue.

Later.
Keith

FLaCo
12-15-2002, 02:39 AM
I know the AT7-Max2 is nice board and obviously it will support the 333 with a KT400 on it...and yes they have been slow on them Bios UPdate. MY board will support it (KX7-333R) but now with the whole nForce and dual channel Memory seems tempting.

Lemme get this str8 HKB...you have a single Special Edition WD correct...and its going great, right no noticeable differnce next to raid?

hkb
12-15-2002, 09:25 AM
Lemme get this str8 HKB...you have a single Special Edition WD correct...and its going great, right no noticeable differnce next to raid?

No, I have not compared to a raid setup. What I do want to do is put these sp.ed. drives in a Raid array. I have 2 80gb drives and 1 180gb drive. I did trade off 2 regular ata133 drives and replaced with theWD sp.ed. drives. It was an obvious speed change.

The reason I'm not running in raid at the moment is that I want a stable way to do the changeover without losing my setup or data. My C: is ntfs (80gb) And I keep minimal programs on my root drive. I could have done this with a 15gb C:\ but they didn't have them on sale with rebates or that small size either. D:\ the other 80gb has most of the program files. The 180gb is currently Images and software storage.

I think (I could be wrong) that anything running in duel fashion would make a lightning difference. Like cpu's. A guy set up a server using Celerons, I don't remember the speed, but they're under 900mhz each and those cpu's cost him practically nothing, and he's still flipping over it's performance. It's a whole new ball game to me.

If I was to start all over, I'd watch the same things you are, see which are going to really be important to me, then look for a duel cpu board. I'd take the harder route (more waiting) and go with AMD cpu's. I know that with duelees, I'd worry less about having the most current cpu. But just knowing I could always drop in the latest is a must.

Keith

FLaCo
12-15-2002, 05:15 PM
Well this isn't for me...and he obviously cannot wait cuaz his computer is down atm. I also am an AMD man right now...thats is what i am trying to show him.

The spec i recommend to him (he isn't rich)

2600+ 333
Nforce 2 ASUS
9700 Pro ( i told him to wait until the NV30 for the price drop)
512 (2x 256 on Dual Channel DDR)
and a 120 gig SE WD HD (since there is not raid)

DO you happen to know what the differnce between the ASUS DELUXE nForce @ mobo to the normal nForce 2 ASUS MOBO?...Well besides the obvious like no SATA RAID controller and dual lan ports but does chipset change slightly?...does anyone know?

In PCMARK 2002 RAIDED SE drives and my regular 40 gig WD's on RAID shared the same score.

Wiggo
12-16-2002, 05:01 AM
Basically ya improvement will just be the additional speed added by the extra burst cache of which the 2MB caches won't show a great deal of improvement but the 8MB caches on the "JB"s will infact sustain much longer burst rates as 16MB of cache will most certainly tell over 4MB. :devil win
<center>:cheers:</center>