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View Full Version : Intel's thermal plans chill fan makers



Wiggo
01-17-2003, 10:28 PM
Now this (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=7271) is gettin' far too much like Microsoft now. :angryfire

:hammer: :shoot3: :shoot2: :shoot: :knife:

minibubba
01-18-2003, 01:02 AM
bad for Intel, good for AMD

Wiggo
01-18-2003, 01:14 AM
Just for those too lazy to click. :devil:


SOURCES SAID that a plan Intel implemented which means third party fan makers have to pay for validation, has the smaller manufacturers boiling with fury.
At a meeting in Taiwan last year, Intel introduced the plan to the makers of cooling devices which requires them to submit their designs to a third party service for validation.

But the cost of designing the specifications and of submitting them for validation has the smaller manufacturers grumbling, the sources said.

Cooling devices for CPUs are becoming more sophisticated and complex to deal with the heat generated by modern microprocessors, and the plan was introduced by Intel with good intentions.

But, as Samuel Johnson apparently didn't say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

The up-front cost of validating a fan design through the third party can be as much as ,000, according to INQ sources, and that doesn't include the R&D work and the specs that need to be submitted.

Intel is hosting another fiery fest this year at which it will have to listen to its fan makers whirring loudly about the charges.
<center>:cheers:</center>

RDR
01-18-2003, 01:23 AM
what do they mean by "validation" ?

...is there anything stopping HSF makers from selling "unvalidated" coolers?

Right now for Athlons - there's "AMD approved" coolers - and then ther's all the rest - I personally pay very little attention to it. I read somewhere that AMD doesn't "approve" anodized coolers ?!?

It may turn out to mean very little - I hope so

Wiggo
01-18-2003, 01:28 AM
I have a feelin' here that if anyone tried to sell an "unvalidated" one that Intel plans to have them in court somehow and I don't know why or how but it's just a feelin' though I do know that a lot of ppl's warranties will be voided by there use. :hmph:
<center>:cheers:</center>

minibubba
01-18-2003, 01:36 AM
is there a good reason for intel to do this or are they just that greedy

RDR
01-18-2003, 01:38 AM
I have a feelin' here that if anyone tried to sell an "unvalidated" one that Intel plans to have them in court somehow and I don't know why or how but it's just a feelin' though I do know that a lot of ppl's warranties will be voided by there use. :hmph:
<center>:cheers:</center>

hmmmm - do you void your AMD warranty by not using an "AMD approved" HSF?

I think the vast majority of system integrators stick w/ the retail HS ....& most who are interested in changing the HS - are likely prepared to void their warranty (by OC'ing) anyway.

...seems like a bit of a cash grab, they must have ex-government workers employed at Intel now

Wiggo
01-18-2003, 01:52 AM
That's true but it didn't put others out of business and this will as the aftermarket Intel HSF's are few and far between now which means that they may just disappear all together then goodness knows how much an overclocker will pay to cool their Intel CPU's. :?:

The AMD market is over supplied and those few companies that were just makin' ends meet won't get anymore there either but it doesn't cost them much to get on AMD's "Approved" list either (mainly just send them the unit or 2 and wait till AMD gets around to them). :(

I just hope that they don't start M$'s "leasin' plan" next. :eek:
<center>:cheers:</center>

JediAgent
01-18-2003, 01:55 AM
Its to make sure HSF's that are ****e dont burn Intel new P4's. Intel doesnt want medium-small size PS integrators using an "unworthy" HSF to give Intel probs when the proc dies. Its not really aimed at us, its aimed at Voodoo, Falcon, Alienware, etc.. bc they arent large enough companies to have enough cash reserve to buy new chips should the old ones die due to a bad HSF when you, the consumer, warranty it. But Intel doesnt want to disturb business with the those comapnies, cause they can always market an AMD... a HSF manufacturer on the other hand, cant push AMD products if they have had bad dealing with Intel because thats not where a system is sold, so they dont have any marketing clout. Rather, if a HSF maunfacturer wants to make money they need to tailor themselves to the current market situation as created by Intel, PC Integrators, and the consumer. So Intel can screw the HSF manufacturer without any real repercussions (a small repercussion amy be the decrease of Intel buying in the OC community)

Thus, Intel wants another insurance clause to protect itself from rising temps of its new procs, and it has to screw someone to do it, the HSF guy is the easiest and less painful... bam.

... i think the only relavance this has to us it that Intel has just indirectly told us its new chips are going to be running hot.
:flames:

Wiggo
01-18-2003, 02:01 AM
It may have to be a "validated" mobo next which will mean no overclockin' at all. :(
<center>:insert sad devil smiley:</center>

JediAgent
01-18-2003, 02:13 AM
If they do that i think i may coose not to be a "validated" consumer... wait... im already not as i dont buy Intel... oh well...:geek:

Mr.Tweak
01-18-2003, 08:19 AM
Someone above said AMD would love for this to happen and they are correct - at least for our enthuaists market which I remind you is about 1% of the total PC market.

Imagine if Intel do this, I would image many cooling companies would stop producing Intel coolers (or coolers with adapters for Intel processors) and just focus on AMD.

Then as a result, many enthuaists would only buy AMD processors because theres the quality OC heatsinks out for them to buy and get the most out of their processors, compared to using stock Intel coolers.

Silly move Intel, wake up!

minibubba
01-18-2003, 08:25 AM
I almost hope intel does do this, and the result will be a boost to AMD...it's been a loss to me why so many ppl still use intel's chips anyway

Wiggo
01-18-2003, 08:39 AM
Hey just imagine if ya had to be a "validated" customer to get an upgrade? :eek:

I was goin' to build that P4 setup this week but I'm not so sure now. :?:

I was goin' to use a Volcano 7+ on that too. :D
<center>:cheers:</center>

Mr. C
01-18-2003, 08:53 AM
You can bet that the next versions of the Intel CPU's will be hot.
They say the electrons leaking now are what is causing most of the heat problems and without a major change in architecture it is only going to get worse.

Who's validating the watercoolers:?:

Final
01-18-2003, 12:36 PM
ohh god no... lol
i was just going to oc. my 2.4....
well it will be good for AMD cuz they'll have better coolers ofc... but i think P4 Northwood cores can overclock more than the XP's..... (Is that Right? is p4 more overclockable than AMD even if they have a little weak Heat sink? kinda confused betweek those run!):?: )

Family guy = (omg, the goverment is here........... run flappy

minibubba
01-18-2003, 12:44 PM
i doubt it, it's been a while since i've done any checking on the pentium sceen, but you can't unlock the multiplier on a p4 (right?), but you can on a XP =)

Wiggo
01-18-2003, 01:03 PM
Yes bein' able to manipulate the multiplier is a great plus as ya can really work the FSB limits then with some good quality memory. :devil win
<center>:cheers:</center>

JediAgent
01-18-2003, 01:26 PM
Imagine if Intel do this, I would image many cooling companies would stop producing Intel coolers (or coolers with adapters for Intel processors) and just focus on AMD.

Then as a result, many enthuaists would only buy AMD processors because theres the quality OC heatsinks out for them to buy and get the most out of their processors, compared to using stock Intel coolers.

Never happen, making Intel coolers is too valuable for HSF comapnies to not spend the money to get 'em validated... and even if they did stop, it wouldnt make a real difference in what enthusiasts buy. The market doesnt follow HSF's, HSF's follow the market, even among us tweakers... thats just how it is.

Intel moved its Knight and we Pawns think its dumb cause it gives us a run for the other side of the board... but all the while the Knight has its eyes set on the King(General Public) Strategic Metaphor... i think so... :shoot3:

minibubba
01-18-2003, 01:41 PM
yes, but i don't think this is a very smart move for intel, we'll just have to see...dosn't really matter a whole hell of a lot to me though, seeing as I'm a huge AMD fan anyway

Suicide
01-18-2003, 05:59 PM
i doubt it, it's been a while since i've done any checking on the pentium sceen, but you can't unlock the multiplier on a p4 (right?), but you can on a XP =)
With the little dinky intel stock hsf that came iwth my 2.53, i've been able to verify now that xp pro runs stable at 3.23ghz since i've upgraded my psu, which is 700mhz above it's clock rating (p4 is c1 core stepping not b0) anyway, overclocking the p4 even with the stock hsf isn't that hard to get up high... granted, better cooling will most likely (i can't see why it wouldn't) result in better heat managment.

As for why people buy intel anymore, last AMD processor I obught was a duron 600, which died, without overclocking or anything, 18 days after I bought it... problem: heat, and this was using the stock hsf that was shipped with the processor. I have few quams against AMD as a company, but their fab process has always, ALWAYS left something to be desired from myself personally... This, and the fact that the P4 performs better than the athlon xp (at least, my 2.53 which has almost the same specs as my xp2100+ i use at work, beats the **** outta the 2100+ (the athlon has more ram, but 2714 less in 3dmark2001se (same vid card in both machines (ati firegl 8800))). That's why, I, myself, buy intel and sell intel processors in new computers unless someone specifically requests AMD or doesn't have an extra 100 bucks to throw around for the p4 proc.

minibubba
01-18-2003, 11:37 PM
the amd 2100+ is equivilent to a p4 2.2...I'm sure a p4 2.53 does out perform it

Suicide
01-19-2003, 01:05 AM
Actually the 2200+ is more equivilant to a 2.2ghz p4, but yes I do see your point.

minibubba
01-19-2003, 01:18 AM
there was an article over at toms hardware comparing the 2100= to a p4 2.2

Suicide
01-19-2003, 10:00 AM
I stopped listening to tom 2 years ago :) Full of BS a lotta the times :) Instead I prefer to get my info from people who aren't payed to use and write reviews on the hardware :)

minibubba
01-19-2003, 11:00 AM
good point :cheers:

Mr.Tweak
01-19-2003, 01:06 PM
No comment

minibubba
01-19-2003, 01:30 PM
no offense Mr. T , just think ole' Tom has had his opinon swayed a few times too often by some $$

Mr.Tweak
01-19-2003, 01:40 PM
no offense Mr. T , just think ole' Tom has had his opinon swayed a few times too often by some $$

Again, no comment.

But your comment did not offend me... :)

minibubba
01-19-2003, 01:47 PM
your comment did not offend me...

I'm glad to hear that :cheers:

Wiggo
01-19-2003, 02:39 PM
Gee 2 pages. :?:

The most life this forum has seen in a long time now. :D

Now stay awake as I may need a hand with this P4 & Volcano 7+. :laugh:

:beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

The__tweaker
01-19-2003, 03:09 PM
YOU should stay awake Wiggo, so that you don't get to addicted to the original and throws out anything else not quite genuine... ;)

I've seen it strike people before...

:cackle: :cackle: :cackle:

minibubba
01-19-2003, 11:48 PM
wow, this thread really got off topic...:beer:

Suicide
01-20-2003, 01:04 AM
It's all my fault :angel:

minibubba
01-20-2003, 01:12 AM
bad Suicide, bad...:shoot2:

so what were we talking about? oh ya, evil intel...

JediAgent
01-20-2003, 05:57 AM
Evil Intel...

Suicide
01-20-2003, 10:55 AM
* Suicide feels like arguing a holy war... AMD vs Intel... but not tonight .. sleepy:zzz:

JediAgent
01-21-2003, 02:33 AM
Normally i would tend to think of my self as an experienced microprocessing colonol (yes i titled myself, so what, who's gonna stop me?) but i havent recieved my wages lately from AMD... so i guess ill consider myself mercenary... send me free stuff and ill argue whatever you want for you!:p

Suicide
01-21-2003, 05:12 AM
Mailing address?? I got a Vic-20 collecting dust that'd be nice to hear someone aruging it vs modern day machines :D

JediAgent
01-21-2003, 05:17 AM
I said mercenary, not crack-addict willing to take up being a hitman fo' some candy. thx anyway thou.

The__tweaker
01-21-2003, 06:02 AM
*crack addict*

lmao

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Wiggo
01-21-2003, 06:39 AM
Good self description there. :thumb:

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

:beer: :beer: :beer:

JediAgent
01-21-2003, 09:12 AM
You's should be the first to know that thats not crack...:angel:

Just John
02-02-2003, 02:57 PM
It means zero to me. Currently the price difference between an "OEM" P4 without fan or warranty and a "boxed set" with a 3 year warranty is about $5.

What the heck is there to discuss? Intel has to be loosing money on that deal, since their heat sink/fan combos in the boxed sets suck.

The__tweaker
02-02-2003, 06:45 PM
"since their heat sink/fan combos in the boxed sets suck."

I disagree on that one, their boxed sinks and fans is good enough for light to medium oc, it's only the heavy oc that requires a better cooling solution.

:cheers:

Wiggo
02-03-2003, 08:19 AM
That's quite right as it's only us real darkside ppl that need anything more and I'll save where ever I can without compromisin' quality. Thus I save space in my scrap metal box. :devil win
<center>:cheers:</center>

0R1()N
02-26-2003, 06:05 AM
what do they mean by "validation" ?

...is there anything stopping HSF makers from selling "unvalidated" coolers?

Right now for Athlons - there's "AMD approved" coolers - and then ther's all the rest - I personally pay very little attention to it. I read somewhere that AMD doesn't "approve" anodized coolers ?!?

It may turn out to mean very little - I hope so

by validation they mean all your base are belong to us now. or in other words resistence is futlie your money will be assimilated:grr:

JediAgent
02-26-2003, 11:10 AM
all your base are belong to us

Please God, NO!

0R1()N
02-26-2003, 12:03 PM
How are you gentle men? Make your time you have no chance to surivie.

0R1()N
02-27-2003, 06:07 AM
:wow: I found this when I clicked on a pi sign on the lower left on the home page of microsofts site I have no idea why its there:eek:

theyneverknew
02-28-2003, 04:40 AM
hmm.. maybe Bill Gates is really a crazy megalomaniac alien :laugh: :flames:

0R1()N
03-01-2003, 06:52 AM
hmmmmmm the possibilities