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View Full Version : Which is better, CS or RTCW??



AngryN3rd
02-09-2002, 12:41 AM
It's a conversation my friends and i have battled since RTCW's release....

Which is better? and why?

Onyx
02-09-2002, 08:37 AM
RTCW - no cheaters just yet.

Birdkiller
02-09-2002, 12:50 PM
RTCW. Theres more teamworkand strategy with different classes in it

Darthtanion
02-09-2002, 01:27 PM
I haven't played RTCW as of yet, but since it is based on the Q3 engine, I'm guessing that it moves faster than the CS games do?

If so, then I would vote for RTCW just for that reason alone. CS is too damn slow paced for my enjoyment. ;)

Bahamut Zer0
02-09-2002, 06:35 PM
Im going to vote for neither.

and Darth- CS is meant to be slower than q3a/q3a based games because its a "realistic" game. Think about it, your approaching a room that is perhaps occupied with hostiles, do you:
a) silently and slowly make your way around the corner and take them out as effeciently as possible or
b) rocket jump into the area guns blazing and hope for the best.

choice b is ideal for people who like mindless carnage and really dont have the capacity to think things out.
choice a is for those who wanna actually get some maturity and satisfaction from their games. (as one shot is all it takes to kill you)

anyway, cs is rapidly loosing its edge. Cheaters and the lowering of the realistic movement/weapons etc mainly. There are other higher quality mods out there. One of which is Urban Terror, which is for q3a. Its quite good.
However, my fav is Tac-Ops. A UT mod that totally owns cs in every way.

ok, back on topic, id say rtcw is 'better' than cs only because its fun. CS no longer is with all the cheats.

MySTiCuSS
02-10-2002, 12:46 AM
Counterstrike is better for multiplayer!

Darthtanion
02-10-2002, 04:37 AM
Darth- CS is meant to be slower than q3a/q3a based games because its a "realistic" game. Think about it, your approaching a room that is perhaps occupied with hostiles, do you:
a) silently and slowly make your way around the corner and take them out as effeciently as possible or
b) rocket jump into the area guns blazing and hope for the best.

choice b is ideal for people who like mindless carnage and really dont have the capacity to think things out.
choice a is for those who wanna actually get some maturity and satisfaction from their games. (as one shot is all it takes to kill you)


Considering that I've already DONE the slow and sneaky stuff for real, I'll still vote for mindless carnage. CS tries to be realistic, but really fails in that aspect. Games based on the Q3A engine don't go for that as much... they are designed for those who want to go out and kill anything that moves.

Besides, when I play the alow paced games like CS, I tend to get bored easily. Reality or not, I want the speed to move me right along and not hold me back.

sKuLLsHoT
02-10-2002, 10:27 AM
rtcw canes CS, and mohaa is prolly on top of that - still waiting to have a hack at it...

the main prob with CS is that with all the cheats today; it could still be fun trying to get them, knowing how difficult it is, and you can sorta become a better player for it...however due to the fact that u die once in a round and have to wait for the next one, you get bored quick, whereas rtcw or even just DoD, you respawn into the game in near enuff time, to make the round and match more interesting.

i started looking at DoD and if you want slow, DoD will provide u with it :D

atleast when u suck at it, u can still be amused for wages due to the fact u get respawned in like 5 secs

brashquido
02-10-2002, 10:59 AM
RTCW - no cheaters just yet.

I think RTCW is better, but it does have cheats. There is atleast 2 I know of with invisablity and a grenade hack so you have infinate grenades and fire them off at the same rate as a machine gun!!

Bahamut Zer0
02-10-2002, 05:45 PM
MOA:AA gets real boring, real quick.
Dont get me wrong, its a great game, but it just doesnt have the lastability of the others. (DoD,Tacops/UT etc)

I have been playing CS since beta 3/5 and retired in 1.1
I had planned on returning in 1.3, but cheats and the whole 'arcade' gameplay that CS now has turned, put me off.
Perhaps the next release of Hl/CS with Valves new anti-cheat counter measures will be the cure. Somehow I doubt it, but its nice to think such things...

Nowadays Im playing DoD2.0 and Tacops.

If I want a game where my brain can be disconnected while im playing it, by all means, shove q3a in front of me.

And yes, there are cheats already for RTcW. Same goes for DoD.
hopefully they wont get out of control like CS

Birdkiller
02-11-2002, 06:24 AM
Its easy to spot the nade cheats in RTCW though as soon as you hear a constant bouncing of grenades you can go look for him, and they are usually very quickly gang raped and booted for their crimes.

SileNceR
02-11-2002, 01:40 PM
MOH:AA owns, followed by cs since i really couldnt get into RtCW myself....

zeradul
02-11-2002, 03:18 PM
The realism arguement is SO damn stupid. Realism SUCKS in FPS games. If you think realism is an asset, then you wouldn't mind buying a game only to be killed once, and then banned from playing the game ever again. (because of course, you can only die once... HEY THATS REAL !! )

Mindless killing.. heh, there's more to quake than deathmatch, bahamut....

Andy
02-11-2002, 03:23 PM
when they talk about realism, they mean in the way you shoot the guns, how fast you run with the gun, how many shots it takes to kill you (altho in cs the glock is way way way too weak), etc.

zeradul
02-12-2002, 08:23 AM
well either way i just showed that realism is not necessarily a positive aspect, and therefore is not something that should be attempted...

given that, why not take a look at all possible aspects and tweak them to provide added gameplay. speed things up ! make it harder to be good, take away pure spam weapons, and pure camping weapons, make every weapon powerful if used correctly in its own way. I could go on forever, but the speed is key. Easiest way to increase the difficulty and give the advantage to those with skill.

Beefy
02-12-2002, 10:23 AM
but then you alienate part of the market.. Some people like the faster, more reflex based game, while others prefer the slower, more accurate game.. it's all personal preference... some people like things to be semi-realistic, where you've got to be careful and precise in what you do.. other just like running around, firing all over the place..

zeradul
02-12-2002, 12:41 PM
other just like running around, firing all over the place..

Thats it? Hahahaha!!!

Beefy
02-12-2002, 05:58 PM
oops.. missed an 's'... others


but that's basically all it is.. I know a lot of people love UT and games like that because they are fast paced.. no need to think about it too much.. whereas CS / Ghost Recon type games require you to slow down and actually think about what you are gonna do... you can't just run around corners, because you'll pay for it...

Bahamut Zer0
02-13-2002, 11:10 AM
well either way i just showed that realism is not necessarily a positive aspect, and therefore is not something that should be attempted...

given that, why not take a look at all possible aspects and tweak them to provide added gameplay. speed things up ! make it harder to be good, take away pure spam weapons, and pure camping weapons, make every weapon powerful if used correctly in its own way. I could go on forever, but the speed is key. Easiest way to increase the difficulty and give the advantage to those with skill.

Thats already been done. Unreal Tournament.

Again- its all up to the player/type of person. Im just not impressed or entertained with the mindless bs that ID spew out every year. Ill play it at a LAN, under extreme peer pressure only though. Ill never play it online. Id rather pull a toenail out with a hot poker. The only reason I even have Q3A installed is so I can play Urban Terror and benchmark my vid card.

Q3A is simply an eye-candy engine. I can feel the heat already- but youd have to be pretty 'slow' to actually enjoy the game.

Anyway, I find co-ordinating an assault and taking down some people with SKILL much more apealing than shooting someone is the chest with a rocket, then watching them fall off into space/bottomless pit to die from the fall, not the fact a 3foot long rocket just exploded in their face.

Beefy
02-13-2002, 11:14 AM
Like I always said, great minds think alike.. :) it's a shame you just basically summarised what I said, as well as having a little ***** about Quake 3 / ID (which i forgot.. i was trying to be nice)

zeradul
02-14-2002, 06:49 AM
LOL ! UT???

UT doesn't fit my description AT ALL...

UT movement is SLOW. Crucial mistake, the weapons are designed for the newbie, (sniper rifle, redeemer) How stupid can you be to include a weapon like the sniper rifle to PROMOTE camping/hiding...? That slows the game down to a snails pace... (slower than CS? is that possible?)

There are plenty of UT weapons that are completely useless, the gun that shoots the saws, wtf, and the sludge gun, give me a break.

----

And like it or not, here is why CS is so popular. The game has no speed at all. Which makes it tough to be consistant, and impossible to dominate. Not to mention you don't even need a computer to play the game, any P200 with a TNT will do just fine...

Quake on the other hand has so much skill on the average server that when a newb connects he is decemated. This of course due to one of quake's greatest aspects, which is allowing SO MANY levels of competition. No matter how good you are, there is someone who can rape you like you can't imagine.. Can't say that about CS can you? And thats by design... With the slow speed of HL you can be a keyboarder on a P200 and still compete... Which keeps them coming back... Plus throw in some wonderful camping situations, with the enemies moving nice and slow, and you've got the perfect combo to keep any newb entertained. You know the guy, he plays 45 minutes a week from his compaq, his other online pastimes include checking updates at WWF.com, going to porn websites (and paying) and clicking on 'enlarge your manhood' ads.

But this fills a much needed void, taking the incompetant newbs away from quake, allowing games to be amazingly intense. And if you think i'm exaggerating, think about the last CS game you played... weren't there a group of guys just arguing about something stupid and inconsequential? Whereas insults within quake are rare, because the game is so intense noone has the time to stop and type.

Sure there are non-newbs playing CS, but they are far outweighed, and most likely some of them have their own private servers to keep scum out, and perhaps you guys have access to a private server or two, but every CS server I play at has its own mix of ****y 15 year olds, and average dumbasses arguing constantly. Its tiring, annoying, and repetative. :angry con If you join a server, stfu and play the damn game.

------

I know a lot of people love UT and games like that because they are fast paced.. no need to think about it too much..Have you ever tried a quake mod? While it can be argued that mass deathmatches are won by spammers(and other non-thought actions), there is ALOT of thought and strategy going on in any quake deathmatch duel. Not to mention mods... Fortress, CCTF, Capturestrike, JB/PoW, just to name some of my Fav's


you can't just run around corners You can't run at ALL !! hahaah


you can't just run around corners, because you'll pay for it... Interpretation: The other team is camping (because thats the name of the game) and your moving so slow that there is no way you can successfully enter the room on your own. Booo, teamwork can be accomplished in other ways than just attacking together. Woopty doo, thats a petty definition of teamwork. If I was the word 'teamwork' I'd be embarrased to have THAT referred to as teamwork.


shooting someone is the chest with a rocketSilly CS player, noone aims rockets at opponents chests, thats extremely inneffective. Now tell me, where does a skilled player aim a rocket?


then watching them fall off into space/bottomless pit to die from the fall, not the fact a 3foot long rocket just exploded in their face.So you'd rather die from one hit? Is that a good thing to base a game on? Doing so would result in a game that favors the lucky, and the campers who land the first shot, making it tough for a good player to perform at a level he's capable of. Why would you want to favor the lucky, and make it not uncommon to have 3 to 4 hit fights? Or spin and retalliate on the camper that took a cheap shot. Both requiring the victor to have MORE than Luck...

Beefy
02-14-2002, 09:19 AM
Well, i was trying to be nice here, but obviously you just came here for an argument...

Yes, some of the weapons in UT are very basic.. It kinda helps newbies get into it easier. Once they've played around a bit though, all the other weapons kick in and the newbie ain't so lame anymore. The weapons cater for all types of gameplay. The Ripper is a great tactical weapon at times.. Some of the maps with tight corridors make great use of the Ripper.. The sludge gun is pretty crap though, i'll agree there..

As for CS being hard to dominate.. BS. I've seen plenty of people that constantly wipe the floor with others.. and you can't just run any POS computer to play it, because you can die VERY quickly at times.


Quake on the other hand has so much skill on the average server that when a newb connects he is decemated. This of course due to one of quake's greatest aspects, which is allowing SO MANY levels of competition. No matter how good you are, there is someone who can rape you like you can't imagine.. Can't say that about CS can you?

All games are like that, not just Quake.. Newbies in any game get decimated, except the occasional button bashing fighting games on console / arcade... EVERY game has SO MANY levels of competition. I dunno why you just singled out Quake there, cos you're talking about the whole farkin gaming industry. And I can say that about CS. It can be said about anything.


But this fills a much needed void, taking the incompetant newbs away from quake, allowing games to be amazingly intense. And if you think i'm exaggerating, think about the last CS game you played... weren't there a group of guys just arguing about something stupid and inconsequential? Whereas insults within quake are rare, because the game is so intense noone has the time to stop and type.

Then what's the point of a game if beginners don't have a chance? they'll just think the game is crap and move on.. Not a good sign... Last game of CS I played? My team didn't argue about ****.. We knew exactly what we wanted to do, and we did it.. Insults in Quake are rare, sure.. same as any Deathmatch game.. people don't wanna sit there and yell abuse, they wanna keep killing.


Interpretation: The other team is camping (because thats the name of the game) and your moving so slow that there is no way you can successfully enter the room on your own. Booo, teamwork can be accomplished in other ways than just attacking together. Woopty doo, thats a petty definition of teamwork. If I was the word 'teamwork' I'd be embarrased to have THAT referred to as teamwork.

*sarcasm *Oh, sorry. I thought this was strategy on the computer's behalf in Ghost Recon.. Of course, they must be camping.. Just because it's a town controlled by the enemy, that doesn't mean ****.. They MUST be camping.. *end sarcasm*

Who said **** about teamwork being people attacking together? Ghost Recon is one example of a game where everyone attacking doesn't get very far.. You really gotta think about what you do.


Silly CS player, noone aims rockets at opponents chests, thats extremely inneffective. Now tell me, where does a skilled player aim a rocket?

Well I guess my subtle generalisation was a bit much for you.. I was just trying to point out some differences in games, but if you wanna get really picky, then i'll leave you to it.


So you'd rather die from one hit? Is that a good thing to base a game on? Doing so would result in a game that favors the lucky, and the campers who land the first shot, making it tough for a good player to perform at a level he's capable of. Why would you want to favor the lucky, and make it not uncommon to have 3 to 4 hit fights? Or spin and retalliate on the camper that took a cheap shot. Both requiring the victor to have MORE than Luck...

It's different styles of games.. As was said way back at the start, different people like different styles.. if all FPS games were the same, then there'd be no variety.. Some people like the games based purely of firefights, others like something with large amounts of strategy and depth.. Careful vs reckless... Wild vs controlled.... It's two totally different concepts, obviously which you can't fully grasp...


:hmph:

zeradul
02-14-2002, 11:38 AM
Ok, most of your counter points are warrented, presenting the other side to my comments, many of which do come down to personal preference/opinion, but I want to debut a few...

Newbies getting decemated. OK, sure there is a learning curve anywhere but lets compare. Is it not logical that the slower medium is going to be the first place a newb will see success? And my point about that is, it lets many cut their teeth on CS until they get some experience behind them at which point they try other stuff that they might like better.

Bahamut said that about teamwork... not you.

As far as complaining on the server, maybe i've been a victim of bad servers... or maybe the US has more ****y, immature kids on the internet.

Do you really think that strategy can't exist in quake? Sure, some mods can be played without extensive thought, but to generalize noone is, is foolish. Have you played any of the mods i listed? They are far more than just firefights...

Beefy
02-14-2002, 11:47 AM
well, it looks like we've both calmed down now and are gonna talk properly.. :)

i'm not saying strategy doesn't exist at all in quake, but heavy doses of strategy don't.. As opposed to full on tactial FPS games like whole Rainbow Six series...

Newbies are newbies.. Again, it's each to their own. The ones with good reflexes should probably start in Quake/UT, the ones with more strategical minds should start CS/GR..

Raven
02-17-2002, 08:15 AM
LOL.. well how about this (not directed at anyone specifically, just a rant):

I'm not big on arguing about a piece of software on my computer. If you dont like the fact that I just put three holes in your skull, then leave. If I'm playing CS, RTCW, Rogue Spear, or Rainbow Six, my goal is to take the other guy down as quickly as possible, usually with a nice M4 or a rifle. I dont CARE how many maps I have to play with. In my line of work, you don't give a damn about how the other guy's gonna feel if you suddenly show him a good view of the back of his skull. I take that over to the gaming world as well.

In Q2, Q3, Half-Life, UT, I'm going to put a rocket down your throat. It's my weapon of choice.. Great.. if you don't like it.. Once again, leave ;)

My point is, I'm not saying I'm Mr. God here. I just enjoy playing to play. If the person on the receiving end doesnt like the fact that I'm willing to sit and wait for an enemy to show up, too bad. That's life. That's also strategy. I'm equally as willing to creep around a corner OR run into a room guns blazing if the situation calls for it. That's also strategy (and a good dose of lemmingism).

Some of these games were geared for realism. In the middle of a REAL situation, you dont get to ***** about how that sniper in the window three houses down ended your life with one squeeze of the trigger.

Well that's it.

Raven
02-17-2002, 08:22 AM
As far as complaining on the server, maybe i've been a victim of bad servers... or maybe the US has more ****y, immature kids on the internet.


From my experiences there are a bunch of ****y people out there in the US. Most of them aren't old enough to drive yet. I have noted that a good deal of foreign players are the exact same. I'd chalk it more up to human nature than geographical location.

I prefer to stick around those who know what the definition of fun is, and I'll be the first to compliment the other guy on a good sneak or a head shot that resulted in my untimely demise.

Bahamut Zer0
02-17-2002, 12:13 PM
The real problem is that once a newbie gets hooked on Q3A theyll never explore the other genres of gaming. Q3A is perhaps the worst habit to get into. It is extremly violent, fast paced and has big guns in it. What 13yo kid isnt going to like that?

Add the bland and utter bull**** 'gameplay' ive ever seen and you really do have a simple game for simple players.
Now UT, while still having the same concept, does a better job at showing just a little bit more realism and maturity, and it shows in the mods available. Q3A mods are loosly based on how q3a operates- Kill everything that isnt you. (exception of a few)
UT mods show that the average UT player isnt some 13yo q3a baby with the various tactical and 'advanced thinking' mods.

I played alot of q2 when it first came out. Played on LANs (didnt have net connection back then) and had a high level of respect from ID and expected them to make an absolute killer of a game with q3a. So I went and got the q3a tin box on pre-pre-pre order. Turns out the only thing ID killed was the selling of the bs inside that tin box. Theyve made millions, and didnt produce a game at all.

Still, each to their own....
Q3A=l337
UT= Uber l337
At least youll understand that.


Anyway, as a 20yo mature adult (at least, according to the government) I am over the putrid pile of dog turds that ID have produced from day one.
Should you happen to fire a rocket at me in say, ghost recon ill commend you on the effort. I only hope that next time when you try the same (no doubt you will) and i totally own you with an mp5 youll do the same.
Thats what its all about.

Raven
02-17-2002, 01:26 PM
LOL yeah the MP5 is a damn good wep. Get you out of a tight space here and there too.