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Thread: Device Manager - Unknown Device after MB drivers install




  1. #11
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    Default Re: Device Manager - Unknown Device after MB drivers install

    How does it work?
    It's magic!!

    Shrinking and enlarging partitions has been done for years with many partition management software programs. Chances are that the Magician software has a module based on a well tested existing program that has been around for a while. If there are any existing data blocks that are "in the way" of moving the partition boundary, these blocks of data will be moved to a safe location that is out of the way. This is a similar technique used by defragmenting software that consolidates existing data blocks so that there will be minimal unused space between files.

    Samsung recommends that we set up the over provisioning space to be 7% - 10% of the total space. You said that you originally set the o/p space to 10%. I've read from several reputable sources (e.g. AnandTech) that larger o/p areas lead to longer ssd life by reducing ssd write amplification and write/erase cycles. One AnandTech article stated that enterprise ssd's used in servers can have as much as 50% over provisioning space to extend ssd lifespan and reliability. I don't have any qualms with changing the o/p space in the future if needed.

    Wikipedia has many excellent articles dealing with ssd's, write amplification, and other related topics. AnandTech has had many excellent articles on computer tech topics that cover almost anything you'd want to know. My 17% o/p is probably overkill, but the only thing that I'm possibly (temporarily) loosing is a few gigabytes of space.

    I download the most recent firmware version, along with Samsung software and documentation just after ordering my ssd's. I wanted to update the firmware (if needed) before I cloned my OCZ 60GB boot drive to the new Samy ssd.

    Don't worry, be happy!!

    A web search using: anandtech ssd article will keep you off the streets and out of trouble for a while.
    There are many excellent ssd articles on many other high quality web sites.
    Last edited by profJim; 10-19-2012 at 10:34 AM. Reason: added AnandTech search suggestion
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    Default Re: Device Manager - Unknown Device after MB drivers install

    OK, thanks for all the info. Sounds like it's safe to use the Magician software to increase my OP space. I'll check out the other info you posted. Appreciate the help.
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  3. #13
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    Default Re: Device Manager - Unknown Device after MB drivers install

    You can also get some space back on your SSD on a desktop PC by disabling Windows Hibernation. That is not Sleep, but Hibernate that is used in laptops. I Sleep my Samsung 830 SSD PC all the time, it works fine.

    Anyway, in a CMD prompt, enter: powercfg -h off <press Enter> You must have administrator privileges to do this. You must reboot to get your space back.

    Hibernate creates a file at least the size of your memory capacity, so if you use 16GB, you get 16 GB back.

    The Samsung over-provisioning (OP) feature works fine, I have one 830 I've done that on, and it's fine. Actually, pre-set aside OP space is just a forced discipline to make the user leave some more empty space. ANY free space on a SSD, including of course user space, is used by the SSD's firmware for the same tasks as the pre-set aside OP space. Samsung recommends you create you own OP space like that because the 830, when very full and "abused" with a lot of small random writes (really an artificial torture test), slows down considerably. Free up some space and let TRIM and GC catch up, and it will be fine again.

    The size difference between advertised size and actual size happens with ALL drives, HDDs too, that is nothing new. You just don't notice it as much with large HDDs. If you right click on a drive and click Properties, you'll see something like this:

    Device Manager - Unknown Device after MB drivers install-830-256gb-png

    As you can see, a 256GB 830 actually has 58MB over 256GB. You also see Windows counting in binary, and then converting to decimal, and showing 238 GB, which should be written as GiB (GibiBytes) to be correct. It's Windows fault, not the drives!
    Last edited by parsec; 10-19-2012 at 02:08 PM.

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    Default Re: Device Manager - Unknown Device after MB drivers install

    To further confuse the issue:
    1000 x 1000 x 1000 = one billion or 1,000,000,000
    1024 x 1024 x 1024 = one GibiByte or 1,073,741,824 bytes which is ~7.4 % greater than one billion.
    256 billion divided by 1.074 = ~238.4 GiB

    With a 1 TB drive, the size discrepancy is ~ 9.95% of "missing" disk space.
    1000 x one terabyte = one petabyte and......oh, never mind.

    I blame the hdd and ssd manufacturers for their "inflated" size ratings.
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  5. #15
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    Default Re: Device Manager - Unknown Device after MB drivers install

    Well Prof. Jim, that is really true. My question is, is the size of DRAM counted in the same way as storage drives? Or the various caches in a CPU? Or the capacity of an optical disk? Certainly USB flash drives do the same counting as HDDs and SSDs. Actually, I've seen USB flash drives that did not provide the stated capacity in decimal bytes, the jerks. That was from a big name manufacture too.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Device Manager - Unknown Device after MB drivers install

    I'm pretty sure that with memory and caches, what you see is what you get, using KiB or MiB.
    With a 4.7 GB optical disk, I'm pretty sure that the actual capacity is ~ 4.38 GiB.
    Same thing with 650 - 700 MB cd drives, except you'll only "lose" about 4.86% instead of ~7.4%.

    What's the old saying? Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
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    Seasonic SS-660XP2 80 Plus Platinum psu (660w)
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  7. #17
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    Default Re: Device Manager - Unknown Device after MB drivers install

    Quote Originally Posted by parsec View Post
    You can also get some space back on your SSD on a desktop PC by disabling Windows Hibernation. That is not Sleep, but Hibernate that is used in laptops. I Sleep my Samsung 830 SSD PC all the time, it works fine.

    Anyway, in a CMD prompt, enter: powercfg -h off <press Enter> You must have administrator privileges to do this. You must reboot to get your space back.

    Hibernate creates a file at least the size of your memory capacity, so if you use 16GB, you get 16 GB back.

    The Samsung over-provisioning (OP) feature works fine, I have one 830 I've done that on, and it's fine. Actually, pre-set aside OP space is just a forced discipline to make the user leave some more empty space. ANY free space on a SSD, including of course user space, is used by the SSD's firmware for the same tasks as the pre-set aside OP space. Samsung recommends you create you own OP space like that because the 830, when very full and "abused" with a lot of small random writes (really an artificial torture test), slows down considerably. Free up some space and let TRIM and GC catch up, and it will be fine again.
    Yeah, I have followed most of the recommendations for SSD optimization like disabling HIbernation, Disc Defrag, System Restore, Prefetch, Super Prefetch, drive indexing, etc. Reduced the page file size to 1 GB although I'm still unsure about this one, whether to have it larger or move it to my WD HDD or what the best option is. In regards to Sleep I have disabled that though it sounds like your're saying that is OK. Any tips on how that should be set up? I mean I know how and where to enable it but is there anything special about setting it to work on the SSD?

    Right now my OP space is at 14 GB. I did that when installing Win 7, leaving 14 GB unallocated space. I've looked at Samsung Magician's Over Provisioning tab and it recommends 23.7 GB, which would equate to 10% of the formatted drive's space (238 GB). If I use the Shrink option and shrink the C drive 9 GB that should do it right?
    Last edited by highcountryrider; 10-20-2012 at 01:03 AM.
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  8. #18
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    Default Re: Device Manager - Unknown Device after MB drivers install

    Do you mean shrink, or expand? You said you have 14GB of OP space, and Samsung suggests 23GB, so you would increase it by 9GB from 14GB to 23GB, not shrink it, correct? Or, do you mean shrink the large partition down by 9GB... that's what you mean.

    I would not worry about that OP space to much, unless you plan on filling that SSD up as far as you can.

    Sleep works fine with my Samsung 830's. Besides setting any Sleep settings in the BIOS to "S3" (sleep, S4 is Hibernate) there is nothing you can set on a SSD to enable Sleep. Sleep saves the desktop/OS state to the PC's memory, so writes nothing to any drive. Hibernate writes it to disk. The so-called Hybrid Sleep does both, uses memory and writes to disk, in case of a power loss.

    IMO, Sleep fails due to other things, like the mother board and PS. If a PC fails to Sleep, or really wake from Sleep correctly, it doesn't matter what drives you are using, at least in my experience.

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    Default Re: Device Manager - Unknown Device after MB drivers install

    Quote Originally Posted by parsec View Post
    Well Prof. Jim, that is really true. My question is, is the size of DRAM counted in the same way as storage drives? Or the various caches in a CPU? Or the capacity of an optical disk? Certainly USB flash drives do the same counting as HDDs and SSDs. Actually, I've seen USB flash drives that did not provide the stated capacity in decimal bytes, the jerks. That was from a big name manufacture too.
    Memory and cache and stuff is counted properly
    1KB = 1024 B (2^10)
    1MB = 1024 KB (2^20)
    1GB = 1024 MB (2^30)
    eg: 4GB RAM=2^32

    What's interesting is that SSD's and USBs actually have the "correct" count of space, however what you see is minus the "reserved" space for worn out/bad blocks or whatever.

    Those darn spindle drive manufacturers overstating the drive size!

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    Default Re: Device Manager - Unknown Device after MB drivers install

    Quote Originally Posted by synack View Post
    What's interesting is that SSD's and USBs actually have the "correct" count of space, however what you see is minus the "reserved" space for worn out/bad blocks or whatever.

    Those darn spindle drive manufacturers overstating the drive size!
    That caught my eye. So the 256 GB SSD which is actually 238 GB formatted uses 18 GB "reserved" space? Is any of that allocated as OP space? Or, is the "256 GB" number still a marketing deception from the manufacturer even on a SSD? Man, this is confusing to me.
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