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Thread: Computer running slower after BIOS update




  1. #21
    parsec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Computer running slower after BIOS update

    Good question about the CPU and the apparent TDP mismatch.

    The first issue we have tried to deal with is identifying what the actual TDP of your CPU is. Yes, CPU-Z said it is a 124W TDP CPU, but as Syn said, that is an odd ball number, it should be 125W. While the difference is tiny, the point Syn (and now me) made is can we trust it? That figure should (IMO) be data read from the CPU itself, that is a standard thing for CPUs to have, at least Intel CPUs. Syn went through a calculation, which is valid if correct (no offense Syn, I can't do better.) So IMO, CPU-Z's result is questionable, and did not answer the question.

    Next, I checked AMD's site, and they list four variations of FX-8120 CPUs. Three are listed as 125W TDP, and the fourth is listed as "Unavailable". What the heck is that? If you can't get information from AMD about their products, where do you get it? AMD also did not list, that I could see, very specific model numbers of these CPUs, so it makes it difficult to identify yours. Is this mystery TDP CPU a special model used by PC manufactures, and can be tuned somehow. Wait a minute, I just remembered that I thought I read that AMD was making CPUs that had an adjustable TDP. I'm an Intel CPU person, and not an AMD expert, so I may be wrong, but this point should be cleared up. Did you ever hear of that, Syn?

    Bottom line is, IMO we don't know what variant of the FX-8120 CPU you have. We don't know enough to question IBuyPower about this. Then again, it wouldn't hurt to ask them, rather than accuse them of something, right?

    The other question is, what happens when a "95W CPU support" board has a 125W CPU in it? If that is electrical power, then a 125W CPU can't perform at its potential level. Does that hurt it? I'd say no, but it limits it. On the other hand, if a CPU tries to use more power than a board can provide, that could damage the CPU voltage regulation circuitry. A mother board is not rated for a certain level of TDP (heat) dissipation, that I am aware of. That is the CPU cooler's job.

    8bit, I know I dived right back into techno-land, but I don't think I used many if any terms you might not understand. Let me know if I did.

    Sigh, yet again does any of this really help you with your issue...

  2. #22
    synack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Computer running slower after BIOS update

    In looking at that screen shot again, I'd like to point out CPU-z says "Max TDP" = 124w. Which suggests to me it's not the current running TDP, but the maximum for this CPU.
    That kind of suggests to me that this IS a 95w cpu... but the only way to know for sure is to get the model number off the CPU, which requires removing/replacing the heatsink and grease.


    The other question is, what happens when a "95W CPU support" board has a 125W CPU in it? If that is electrical power, then a 125W CPU can't perform at its potential level. Does that hurt it? I'd say no, but it limits it. On the other hand, if a CPU tries to use more power than a board can provide, that could damage the CPU voltage regulation circuitry. A mother board is not rated for a certain level of TDP (heat) dissipation, that I am aware of. That is the CPU cooler's job.
    That is somewhat a big debate... TDP reflects the heat in watts to be dissipated, not the electrical power consumed. BUUUT.... since there is no other sources of heat energy besides electricity, in this case, IT IS directly related to the power consumed. ( I dare someone to argue this point with me :p haha)
    Due to law of conservation of energy, no energy can be "created" or "lost" only transferred. So if the wattage of heat energy to be dissipated is 125W, then the electrical power consumed is also AT LEAST 125W.

    Since a board rated for 95w is rated based on the "average" usage, the board can probably handle a constant peak usage much higher. Yes, its possible if the CPU draws too much power it CAN damage the voltage regulators.
    I really don't believe we are running into this problem however, and probably shouldn't fixate on it too much.

    The problem seems to be the heat generated, and the thermal limits of the CPU being reached, causing the CPU to slow itself down to cool off before damaging itself.
    the sum total of what we can do here is:

    a) transfer heat off the CPU faster. This is done with a bigger better heatsink cooler solution. keeping the heatsink clean, lowering the ambient temperature etc.
    b) reduce heat generated. this can be done two ways:
    (1) reduce the frequency of the processor, slowing it down will make it cooler
    (2) reduce the voltage being supplied to the processor. since electrical based heat (watts) is defined as the product of volts x amps, reducing volts = less watts = less heat.

    These solutions come with some caveats though:
    a) there is a minimum amount of volts for a processor to run at any given frequency. otherwise we'd just run every processor at .00001 volts and never have to worry about heat.
    b) decreasing frequency has a linear effect on wattage, whereas voltage is exponential. meaning you get a bigger bang for the buck dropping voltage.
    c) larger bigger better heatsink/fans have diminishing returns. due to inefficiencies of heat transfer, double the heatsink/fan does not produce double heat removal.

    Therefore, if nothing else has changed other than a BIOS update, the possible causes of the issue are: voltage and CPU frequency (power saving profiles)
    Looks like reducing voltage has helped, lets see if going a bit lower will help more.

    Syn

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Computer running slower after BIOS update

    Syn, I think the program HWiNFO will display the CPU ID. It shows 000306A9 for my i5-3570K. I haven't cross referenced this yet, but if it is accurate, we can use it to check that CPU.

    Trying to get back to basics, 8bit, have you done anything with the PC lately? Such as, cleaning the CPU cooler fins with a can of that cleaner? Same for your video card. Have you checked out the manual for your board, in particular the BIOS settings for the CPU fan speed control. Can you see if the other fans in your case are connected to the mother board, or directly to the power supply?

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    Default Re: Computer running slower after BIOS update

    Quote Originally Posted by 8bitlove2a03 View Post
    I am so far out of my depth at this moment that it has stopped being funny.
    If you weren't afraid, then we would be

    8bit, can we get a pic of the PSU Spec sticker please? I'm of the opinion that we will probably find the majority of the problem lies here in that the PSU probably does not even come close to it's "rated specs". That and most likely high interior case temps from it struggling. EDIT: Or the boards VRM's are taking a beating with the BIOS now set as 125w TDP processor. Either way, trouble.

    After gaming hard for some time, how hot is the exhaust coming directly out of the back of the PSU? How hot is the back of the PSU physically while laying a finger or two up to it? Please also verify that the PSU's fan is spinning. Reasonably/comparatively, how hot is the air being exhausted from the remaining exhaust fans?


    95W AMD FX-8120:
    AMD FX-Series FX-8120 - FD8120WMW8KGU / FD8120WMGUSBX

    Tool to get the correct CPUID(maybe/hopefully):
    Identify CPU features (beta)
    Upon running the above tool it will open up a browser. Please copy and post the page link that the program opens. Probably not much help here but worth a shot.

    I'd call iBuyPower with your boxes Serial Number and request an answer to just what TDP 8120 they used in it. Short of that taking the cooler off is most likely the only sure-fire way of getting to the right answer here as to whether it's an 95w or 125w TDP processor.

    Though, AMD does show iBuyPower to use the 95W version(using the 95W Tray # from cpu-world):
    http://shop.amd.com/us/All/ViewAllSy.../FD8120WMW8KGU
    Last edited by - wardog -; 11-25-2012 at 04:27 AM. Reason: change 85w to 95w, sorry for the confusion
    #1 - Please, when seeking help, enter the make and model of ALL parts that your system is comprised of in your Signature, or at least the model #'s in your System Specs, then "Save' it.
    ____If you are overclocking, underclocking, or undervolting any parts, informing us of this and their values would prove beneficial in helping you.

    #2 - G.Skill RAM Configurator for your boardSamsung Memory for your boardLatest AMD Chipset Drivers/WindowsLatest AMD Graphics Drivers/WindowsLatest Intel Drivers

    #3 - Please use the eXtreme Outer Vision Power Supply Calculator found HERE to determine if it might be your PSU at issue.
    ____Consider your PSU to be the foundation from which all else is built upon. Anything built upon a weak foundation is poorly built.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Computer running slower after BIOS update

    EDIT: Never mind, Acording to ASRock the board is only rated at 1000. That explains that

    Code:
    OK. Why is your "Rated FSB" at ~1000 and not 2600?
    
    Can't believe I missed that first go 'round
    Last edited by - wardog -; 11-27-2012 at 08:32 AM. Reason: I had a "Duh' moment.
    #1 - Please, when seeking help, enter the make and model of ALL parts that your system is comprised of in your Signature, or at least the model #'s in your System Specs, then "Save' it.
    ____If you are overclocking, underclocking, or undervolting any parts, informing us of this and their values would prove beneficial in helping you.

    #2 - G.Skill RAM Configurator for your boardSamsung Memory for your boardLatest AMD Chipset Drivers/WindowsLatest AMD Graphics Drivers/WindowsLatest Intel Drivers

    #3 - Please use the eXtreme Outer Vision Power Supply Calculator found HERE to determine if it might be your PSU at issue.
    ____Consider your PSU to be the foundation from which all else is built upon. Anything built upon a weak foundation is poorly built.

  6. #26
    parsec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Computer running slower after BIOS update

    wardog, I checked the link to the AMD AIO PCs, and every IBuyPower PC that had the 8120 CPU model as a hot spot/link to more info, showed this:

    Computer running slower after BIOS update-amdfxinfo-png

    All 125W. But, a few of the PCs did not have a CPU info link, including ones from Newegg. So... who knows.

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    Default Re: Computer running slower after BIOS update

    Hullo again. I'm sorry for not responding to you guys for two weeks or so; it's the end of the semester here at uni, so I've been a bit swamped.

    I got the CPU ID from Wardog's suggested program. The link to the URL that program gave me is here. It lists the CPUID signature as being 600F12. Googling that brought me to this. Assuming that ID and the information on the CPUID page are both correct, it look as though my CPU is in fact a 95W model.

    Quote Originally Posted by - wardog - View Post
    8bit, can we get a pic of the PSU Spec sticker please? I'm of the opinion that we will probably find the majority of the problem lies here in that the PSU probably does not even come close to it's "rated specs". That and most likely high interior case temps from it struggling. EDIT: Or the boards VRM's are taking a beating with the BIOS now set as 125w TDP processor. Either way, trouble.

    After gaming hard for some time, how hot is the exhaust coming directly out of the back of the PSU? How hot is the back of the PSU physically while laying a finger or two up to it? Please also verify that the PSU's fan is spinning. Reasonably/comparatively, how hot is the air being exhausted from the remaining exhaust fans?
    I checked for such a sticker when I opened my case up to clean it recently; There wasn't one visible. It may be that it's on the left side, obscured by a bit of metal that sits between the PSU and the case's right panel. I'd take out the PSU and look, but I evidently left my tools at my parent's house this semester like a dolt. The PSU exhaust is certainly warm, but I don't really have a frame of reference for how hot is too hot. Based on comparisons to the main exhaust fan, I'd estimate the PSU gets around 50C, maybe more. Not terribly sure though.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Computer running slower after BIOS update

    Quote Originally Posted by 8bitlove2a03 View Post
    It lists the CPUID signature as being 600F12. Googling that brought me to this. Assuming that ID and the information on the CPUID page are both correct, it look as though my CPU is in fact a 95W model.
    Nope, IIRC 600F12 is common code across the FX's, 'dozer anyways. My results from the program is HERE for my 8150.

    I was hoping something stood out but alas nothing did.

    Quote Originally Posted by 8bitlove2a03 View Post
    I checked for such a sticker when I opened my case up to clean it recently; There wasn't one visible. It may be that it's on the left side, obscured by a bit of metal that sits between the PSU and the case's right panel. I'd take out the PSU and look, but I evidently left my tools at my parent's house this semester like a dolt. The PSU exhaust is certainly warm, but I don't really have a frame of reference for how hot is too hot. Based on comparisons to the main exhaust fan, I'd estimate the PSU gets around 50C, maybe more. Not terribly sure though.
    If you get around to finding your phillips screwdriver and can twist the psu around w/o disconnecting anything, pics would be great. And 50C seems mighty high, if in fact it is indeed 50C(nicely, giving you the benefit of doubt)

    As for the 95W vs 125W chip it's my guess that to get to the bottom of this conundrum you'd need to pull the HS/F off.
    #1 - Please, when seeking help, enter the make and model of ALL parts that your system is comprised of in your Signature, or at least the model #'s in your System Specs, then "Save' it.
    ____If you are overclocking, underclocking, or undervolting any parts, informing us of this and their values would prove beneficial in helping you.

    #2 - G.Skill RAM Configurator for your boardSamsung Memory for your boardLatest AMD Chipset Drivers/WindowsLatest AMD Graphics Drivers/WindowsLatest Intel Drivers

    #3 - Please use the eXtreme Outer Vision Power Supply Calculator found HERE to determine if it might be your PSU at issue.
    ____Consider your PSU to be the foundation from which all else is built upon. Anything built upon a weak foundation is poorly built.

  9. #29
    parsec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Computer running slower after BIOS update

    I'm wondering if the 125W TDP CPU even matters at this point. A new review on this PC on Newegg claims the board has a "2 + 1" phase VRM. The boards info page does not provide thisWhat's the difference what TDP the CPU is if it's not getting enough power? BTW, the unknown PS is rated at 600 Watts on the PC info page.

    I just noticed on the board's info page at ASR that it uses Nvidia chipsets!! And I don't mean for onboard graphics. Check the driver downloads for confirmation. That would explain the FSB of 1000. This just gets worse all the time!

    The issues the OP has are seen in the Newegg reviews several times. The OP is not a PC builder, so what we can suggest to him is limited. Once finals are over he can spend some time with this, if he is so inclined.

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    Lightbulb Re: Computer running slower after BIOS update

    A possible solution:

    I have recently updated my bios and discovered that after that, my 2.6GHz i5 CPU was always running at 1.2GHz, at the lowest multiplier, x9.


    My issue with low CPU frequency was SOLVED when I've DISABLED the "BD PROCHOT" feature using the software "ThrottleStop 6.0", as it seems my max processor temperature limits have been set very low by the bios update, so my processor was almost running at minimum to keep below those low temperature limits.


    BD PROCHOT = Bi-Directional Processor Hot
    Having this enabled means the your video card can mess and limit your processor's frequency (among other things).


    Read more about how to use this program here: The ThrottleStop Guide

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