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Thread: ASRock Z87 Extreme 6 UEFI 1.90




  1. #61
    Shiari is offline Member
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    Default Re: ASRock Z87 Extreme 6 UEFI 1.90

    Yeah, the sum of the values being kept the same is what I meant :) At around 1V for the first value the behaviour appears to change, but it's still strange how it behaves. That behaviour is something I'd like to understand.

    I have all the power states set to auto or enabled ... just tried to set "Package C state support" from auto to C7, makes no voltage difference and performance while typing here appears a bit jerkier. Also my USB drives seem to re- and disconnect. I'll set that back to auto. Worth mentioning: these low power states is also something the PSU has to support, as not all can provide that low a voltage on their 12V line. Mine should be compatible (Corsair 620HX) but that hasn't been verified afaik.

    I'm curious what your settings are that can bring you to below 0.8v idle? The temperatures are possibly related to my high end air cooling, and I'm guessing the fans going at full whack.

    Had to nudge up the cache voltage by a few mV, but with that and only a little more preliminary testing my 4.7 clock appears stable with basically the same temps as at 4.6 :)

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    Default Re: ASRock Z87 Extreme 6 UEFI 1.90

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiari View Post
    Yeah, the sum of the values being kept the same is what I meant :) At around 1V for the first value the behaviour appears to change, but it's still strange how it behaves. That behaviour is something I'd like to understand.

    I have all the power states set to auto or enabled ... just tried to set "Package C state support" from auto to C7, makes no voltage difference and performance while typing here appears a bit jerkier. Also my USB drives seem to re- and disconnect. I'll set that back to auto. Worth mentioning: these low power states is also something the PSU has to support, as not all can provide that low a voltage on their 12V line. Mine should be compatible (Corsair 620HX) but that hasn't been verified afaik.

    I'm curious what your settings are that can bring you to below 0.8v idle? The temperatures are possibly related to my high end air cooling, and I'm guessing the fans going at full whack.

    Had to nudge up the cache voltage by a few mV, but with that and only a little more preliminary testing my 4.7 clock appears stable with basically the same temps as at 4.6 :)
    Sorry, I knew what you said about the sum of voltage of those two settings, just said it in my own way... I don't understand how it works, or should work, etc.

    Another possible piece to this puzzle, or just more data. At stock multiplier (38) using Adaptive voltage set to 0.800V (the minimum as you said), and the Offset set to Auto, I get a maximum core voltage of 1.2V. Yes, the PC boots and runs fine like this, but no OC of course, which we know is easier to run.

    I have all the C-State settings in CPU Config set to Enabled, and the Package C-State support set to C7. I use a Seasonic X760 Gold PS, which is spec'd to work with Haswell systems. I haven't noticed any small hesitations, or USB disconnects. I agree your HX series PS should be Ok with Haswell. I have never seen anything describing what happens when using a PS that cannot deal with Haswell systems, any idea what that is?

    Your 0.8V minimum core voltage might be caused by your OC, or the difference between my i5-4670K and your i7-4770K. I don't have a definitive answer for that question. I have the CPU Integrated VR Efficiency Mode option Enabled in the UEFI, which I think is Disabled when using the auto OC options, as well as the CPU Integrated VR Faults being Disabled too. I'm not sure if one or both will make a difference, I would guess the VR Efficiency Mode setting would be the most likely candidate.

    FWIW, this is what my idle CPU power usage readings are with stock clocks and all power saving options enabled. Power usage readings are at the bottom:

    ASRock Z87 Extreme 6 UEFI 1.90-haswell-low-power-2-png

    AIDA64 agrees with this, although only goes to two decimal places (0.01.) I'm using the onboard Intel graphics, which always shows very low power usage when just on the Internet.

  3. #63
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    Default Re: ASRock Z87 Extreme 6 UEFI 1.90

    Quote Originally Posted by parsec View Post
    Sorry, I knew what you said about the sum of voltage of those two settings, just said it in my own way... I don't understand how it works, or should work, etc.
    It seems impossible to find a good source of info on the settings. I did find this though: The Haswell Review - Intel Core i7-4770K Performance and Architecture | Integrated Voltage Regulator and Overclocking Haswell ... but I haven't gotten any further with that yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by parsec View Post
    I have all the C-State settings in CPU Config set to Enabled, and the Package C-State support set to C7. I use a Seasonic X760 Gold PS, which is spec'd to work with Haswell systems. I haven't noticed any small hesitations, or USB disconnects. I agree your HX series PS should be Ok with Haswell. I have never seen anything describing what happens when using a PS that cannot deal with Haswell systems, any idea what that is?
    I'm not sure what happens, but it's clear the system wouldn't run very well with a non supported PSU and power states. I'm not all that sure my PSU is entirely fine btw, running my hardware through an online power consumption calculator I'm a fair bit over the advertised capacity, and it's already several years old. :) I need to get me an upgrade.

    From The big Haswell PSU compatibility list - The Tech Report - Page 1

    According to Intel's presentation at IDF, the new Haswell processors enter a sleep state called C7 that can drop processor power usage as low as 0.05A. Even if the sleeping CPU is the only load on the +12V rail, most power supplies can handle a load this low. The potential problem comes up when there is still a substantial load on the power supply's non-primary rails (the +3.3V and +5V). If the load on these non-primary rails are above a certain threshold (which varies by PSU), the +12V can go out of spec (voltages greater than +12.6V). If the +12V is out of spec when the motherboard comes out of the sleep state, the PSU's protection may prevent the PSU from running and will cause the power supply to "latch off". This will require the user to cycle the power on their power supply using the power switch on the back of the unit.
    Quote Originally Posted by parsec View Post
    Your 0.8V minimum core voltage might be caused by your OC, or the difference between my i5-4670K and your i7-4770K. I don't have a definitive answer for that question. I have the CPU Integrated VR Efficiency Mode option Enabled in the UEFI, which I think is Disabled when using the auto OC options, as well as the CPU Integrated VR Faults being Disabled too. I'm not sure if one or both will make a difference, I would guess the VR Efficiency Mode setting would be the most likely candidate.
    Ah yeah, perhaps ... most of that stuff is set to "max OC mode" here, though I can't recall the exact settings.

    Quote Originally Posted by parsec View Post
    FWIW, this is what my idle CPU power usage readings are with stock clocks and all power saving options enabled. Power usage readings are at the bottom:

    ASRock Z87 Extreme 6 UEFI 1.90-haswell-low-power-2-png

    AIDA64 agrees with this, although only goes to two decimal places (0.01.) I'm using the onboard Intel graphics, which always shows very low power usage when just on the Internet.
    Hmm well using the iGPU will add some heat too, if you're overclocking. But since you're not, no problem I suppose. :)

    Btw, you might find this post from someone at Intel interesting: Some basics on CPU P states on Intel processors

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    Default Re: ASRock Z87 Extreme 6 UEFI 1.90

    Quote Originally Posted by parsec
    Another possible piece to this puzzle, or just more data. At stock multiplier (38) using Adaptive voltage set to 0.800V (the minimum as you said), and the Offset set to Auto, I get a maximum core voltage of 1.2V. Yes, the PC boots and runs fine like this, but no OC of course, which we know is easier to run.
    I'm having the same problem.

    i5-4670k with Asrock Extreme6 Z87.
    My core voltage is 1.212 when my CPU runs at 3.6 GHz (stock) with adaptive set to 0.800
    It does go down to 800 MHz and 0.763v when it's idle.
    I would really like the max volts LOWER than the 1.212, if I used fixed voltage, I can run stock at 1.02v just fine.

    I briefly tried underclocking my CPU to 2.0 GHz and my voltage would max out at approx 0.85 volts then.
    For now I'm just going to use the built in BIOS 4.0 GHz setting I guess.
    My temps are fine. I don't care about a crazy overclock, honestly I can't tell the difference between 3 GHz and 4.3 GHz on my chip. I mostly game. So I'd like the lower voltage = lower watts = lower electricity bill!

    Also, If you use the motherboard's built in OC feature in the BIOS to select 4.0 GHz, it changes the Adaptive to 0.02 which makes no sense because it says the minimum is 0.800

    I suspect it's a bug?

    But anyways...any idea how I can get the max adaptive to go LOWER than 1.212?

  5. #65
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    Default Re: ASRock Z87 Extreme 6 UEFI 1.90

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiari View Post
    It seems impossible to find a good source of info on the settings. I did find this though: The Haswell Review - Intel Core i7-4770K Performance and Architecture | Integrated Voltage Regulator and Overclocking Haswell ... but I haven't gotten any further with that yet.
    Thanks for that, I'll check it out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiari View Post
    I'm not sure what happens, but it's clear the system wouldn't run very well with a non supported PSU and power states. I'm not all that sure my PSU is entirely fine btw, running my hardware through an online power consumption calculator I'm a fair bit over the advertised capacity, and it's already several years old. :) I need to get me an upgrade.

    From The big Haswell PSU compatibility list - The Tech Report - Page 1
    That paragraph leaves out the main thing to check about a PSU's design for Haswell compatibility, which I just remembered. If the PSU's 3.3V and 5V rails are derived from the 12V rail, called a DC to DC convertor design, then it will be Haswell compatible. If the 3.3V and 5V rails are derived from the AC power rail, and use the usual AC to DC rectifier design, then the the PSU may suffer from the problem described in that paragraph. Seasonic and others have been using the DC to DC convertor design for a year or two on some of their PSUs, and I know that at least some Corsair models use this design, certainly their newest and more expensive recent models.

    When the 3.3V and 5V rails are actually taken from the 12V rail using the DC to DC convertor design, the load on the 12V rail will remain higher, even at the very low 0.05A minimum CPU usage. So that apparently keeps the 12V rail within spec. But, if you have any 12V fans in your PC, which I know you do, your 12V rail draw will never be that low, even with the low power usage Noctua fans. Plus you must have other 12V fans in your case, right?

    I checked a detailed review of the HX620: Corsair HX620W Power Supply Review | Hardware Secrets

    From what I can see, it does not seem the 3.3V and 5V rails are part of a DC to DC convertor design. Given the date of the review, it seems the vintage of that PS design is before the DC to DC convertor era. If this really is an issue for you, only you can really tell, but IMO I would be more surprised if it was a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiari View Post
    Hmm well using the iGPU will add some heat too, if you're overclocking. But since you're not, no problem I suppose. :)

    Btw, you might find this post from someone at Intel interesting: Some basics on CPU P states on Intel processors
    It sure seems the iGPU power usage is low low low! My Corsair cooler only allows so much pressure to be applied to the CPU, and no more, which may be a factor. One of the two fans I use on the radiator is a Noctua... Frankly your sub 30C idle temps are amazing IMO.

  6. #66
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    Default Re: ASRock Z87 Extreme 6 UEFI 1.90

    Quote Originally Posted by mordak View Post
    I'm having the same problem.

    i5-4670k with Asrock Extreme6 Z87.
    My core voltage is 1.212 when my CPU runs at 3.6 GHz (stock) with adaptive set to 0.800
    It does go down to 800 MHz and 0.763v when it's idle.
    I would really like the max volts LOWER than the 1.212, if I used fixed voltage, I can run stock at 1.02v just fine.

    I briefly tried underclocking my CPU to 2.0 GHz and my voltage would max out at approx 0.85 volts then.
    For now I'm just going to use the built in BIOS 4.0 GHz setting I guess.
    My temps are fine. I don't care about a crazy overclock, honestly I can't tell the difference between 3 GHz and 4.3 GHz on my chip. I mostly game. So I'd like the lower voltage = lower watts = lower electricity bill!

    Also, If you use the motherboard's built in OC feature in the BIOS to select 4.0 GHz, it changes the Adaptive to 0.02 which makes no sense because it says the minimum is 0.800

    I suspect it's a bug?

    But anyways...any idea how I can get the max adaptive to go LOWER than 1.212?
    Is the Adaptive voltage set to 0.02V, or is that the Adaptive Offset voltage? I'll need to try the 4.0 Auto OC and see what I get.

    Getting the max Adaptive voltage lower than ~1.2V is the problem we all seem to have, I have yet to see anyone with this board able to do that. I just tried setting Adaptive voltage to 0.800V, and Offset to 0.001V, and I still get 1.2V max, at even slightly under stock turbo clocks (3.615GHz.) You're not missing something obvious, we all have the same as you are experiencing.

    I have seen claims that on some boards (Gigabyte) that when using Override/manual voltage settings, they were seeing the voltage drop to the low/idle Adaptive voltage levels, which does not happen with this board. That of course would be the best of both worlds, since even if the CPU core speed drops to 800MHz, when using Override/manual voltage settings, the voltage does not drop to the same level it does with Adaptive.

    The screenshot I saw for the Gigabyte board showed the idle/800MHz CPU core voltage as 0.18...V, which I wonder about, is that really correct? In the screenshot I post above, I'm getting total CPU package power dipping to less than 0.5W!! That is at 0.750V +/- 0.003V. The "IA Cores" power is supposed to be the four main computing cores, and the GT cores is the graphics. I'm looking at my CPU package power right now at under 1 Watt, as I type this. How much lower can it go??

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    Default Re: ASRock Z87 Extreme 6 UEFI 1.90

    Quote Originally Posted by parsec View Post
    Is the Adaptive voltage set to 0.02V, or is that the Adaptive Offset voltage? I'll need to try the 4.0 Auto OC and see what I get.

    Getting the max Adaptive voltage lower than ~1.2V is the problem we all seem to have, I have yet to see anyone with this board able to do that. I just tried setting Adaptive voltage to 0.800V, and Offset to 0.001V, and I still get 1.2V max, at even slightly under stock turbo clocks (3.615GHz.) You're not missing something obvious, we all have the same as you are experiencing.

    I have seen claims that on some boards (Gigabyte) that when using Override/manual voltage settings, they were seeing the voltage drop to the low/idle Adaptive voltage levels, which does not happen with this board. That of course would be the best of both worlds, since even if the CPU core speed drops to 800MHz, when using Override/manual voltage settings, the voltage does not drop to the same level it does with Adaptive.

    The screenshot I saw for the Gigabyte board showed the idle/800MHz CPU core voltage as 0.18...V, which I wonder about, is that really correct? In the screenshot I post above, I'm getting total CPU package power dipping to less than 0.5W!! That is at 0.750V +/- 0.003V. The "IA Cores" power is supposed to be the four main computing cores, and the GT cores is the graphics. I'm looking at my CPU package power right now at under 1 Watt, as I type this. How much lower can it go??
    The 4.0 default clock option puts Adaptive to .02 and offset adaptive to 0.001

    I was able to get the adaptive to 0.805 max when I underclocked to 2.0 GHz, but I don't want to run at 2 ghz. Even at 2.5 ghz its probably lower than the 1.212 adaptive, but ehhh

  8. #68
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    Default Re: ASRock Z87 Extreme 6 UEFI 1.90

    Quote Originally Posted by mordak View Post
    The 4.0 default clock option puts Adaptive to .02 and offset adaptive to 0.001
    Yes, you're right, I see the same thing in my UEFI when I selected the 4.0 option. I also found if you select the 4.2 option, it sets Adaptive Voltage to 0.05 and Offset to 0.001.

    The others beyond it like 4.4 had values that made sense. So as you said, the 4.0 voltage setting is just plain wrong, and I also noticed the 4.2 Auto OC options has bad a Adaptive Voltage setting. I didn't try to boot the PC with those values...

    Quote Originally Posted by mordak View Post
    I was able to get the adaptive to 0.805 max when I underclocked to 2.0 GHz, but I don't want to run at 2 ghz. Even at 2.5 ghz its probably lower than the 1.212 adaptive, but ehhh
    Interesting, I may try that for fun. Haswell is turning me into an Under Clocker (UC). How low can you go?

  9. #69
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    Default Re: ASRock Z87 Extreme 6 UEFI 1.90

    Quote Originally Posted by parsec View Post
    That paragraph leaves out the main thing to check about a PSU's design for Haswell compatibility, which I just remembered. If the PSU's 3.3V and 5V rails are derived from the 12V rail, called a DC to DC convertor design, then it will be Haswell compatible. If the 3.3V and 5V rails are derived from the AC power rail, and use the usual AC to DC rectifier design, then the the PSU may suffer from the problem described in that paragraph. Seasonic and others have been using the DC to DC convertor design for a year or two on some of their PSUs, and I know that at least some Corsair models use this design, certainly their newest and more expensive recent models.

    When the 3.3V and 5V rails are actually taken from the 12V rail using the DC to DC convertor design, the load on the 12V rail will remain higher, even at the very low 0.05A minimum CPU usage. So that apparently keeps the 12V rail within spec. But, if you have any 12V fans in your PC, which I know you do, your 12V rail draw will never be that low, even with the low power usage Noctua fans. Plus you must have other 12V fans in your case, right?
    I did study basic electronics way back in school, and there I mostly learned it didn't appeal to me much at all so I'm not quite into the tech behind power supplies. :) I probably do have 12V fans yeah, as 3 of them are 200mm fans and I very much doubt those come in a 5V version. Not sure about the other ones (2x140mm, 2x120mm) ... I never really looked at that.

    Quote Originally Posted by parsec View Post
    I checked a detailed review of the HX620: Corsair HX620W Power Supply Review | Hardware Secrets
    Thanks for that, that makes me a bit more confident about the load on my PSU with my OC and lots of drives and fans. I already knew it was Seasonic made (and really, you don't ever want anything else) but I didn't know it was that good. I think it came from my housemate's old system, so I didn't actually buy that PSU myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by parsec View Post
    From what I can see, it does not seem the 3.3V and 5V rails are part of a DC to DC convertor design. Given the date of the review, it seems the vintage of that PS design is before the DC to DC convertor era. If this really is an issue for you, only you can really tell, but IMO I would be more surprised if it was a problem.

    It sure seems the iGPU power usage is low low low! My Corsair cooler only allows so much pressure to be applied to the CPU, and no more, which may be a factor. One of the two fans I use on the radiator is a Noctua... Frankly your sub 30C idle temps are amazing IMO.
    I've not seen any issues as such, though I've certainly had a few crashes when stresstesting for my OC. Most of those crashes and lockups were due to not enough voltage being set by me, I can only hope none were because my PSU just couldn't handle it anymore. :)

    I did just read an article that says manufacturers have disabled C6 and C7 powerstates by default to make the motherboards more compatible with crappy PSU's, so I guess it is disabled by default on the "auto" setting I'm using. The stuttering I saw on a forced C7 didn't make me very confident on how well it works for me, though I wouldn't be suprised if that's also related to my CPU running far beyond stock. I might test C6 if I'm ever bored enough.

    And my idle temps are awesome yeah. :)

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    Default Re: ASRock Z87 Extreme 6 UEFI 1.90

    it has been stated by the manufacturers that when adaptive voltage is set, the cpu can call for whatever voltage it wants (guess that comes back to the vid table). I think the stipulation is that any benchmark can up the voltage past whatever you set, unless its override. and in that instance it just sits there without dropping to allow better idle temps.

    my board wont run ram at 2400 no matter what, and I have 3 kits that will all do over 2600 on z77 ex6.

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