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Thread: I am beginning to get very annoyed and frustrated with ASRock.




  1. #11
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    Default Re: I am beginning to get very annoyed and frustrated with ASRock.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2lalaland View Post
    "I pride myself on my reputation" is exactly what I mean ;) Don't jeopardize your entire career for something you WANT it to be if it's not. I'm not in your situtation, but if they released this prematurely & still don't have the kinks worked out, your reputation will be at jeopardy, you see? Most end users don't understand this sort of thing so it will come down to you, my dear. Don't risk your reputation, it isn't worth it.
    I appreciate what you're saying but at the same time I've got people clambering for more information and wanting a decision which is one of the reasons I'm getting so frustrated with the lack of answers the z87 Extreme 11 ac is clearly the best choice for a lot of them but only if it works and is available.

    As for me I'm trying to write a RADE at the moment and software development and constant interruption aren't known for going hand in hand - so not only was I looking forward to this platform for the sake of myself but also for the sake of my sanity. Regarding the kinks it sounds like they haven't got them worked out for the z77 version either so why oh why did they mention the z87 one?

  2. #12
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    Default Re: I am beginning to get very annoyed and frustrated with ASRock.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2lalaland View Post
    Not like this matters much, but I am 100% in agreement with you Falloutboy. Everything you said in this post plus the other. Very bad business practices. So sad too. Maybe this is the new way of corporate america? If this be the case, let me shoot myself now, LOL! I have been in sales pretty much all my life, I could never stand behind a product so half assed. Sorry, I said it, but it's the truth. From reading your comments, you are just that guy. Don't jeopardize your reputation for another, if you know what I mean?
    IMO, corporate America does not apply here, because ASRock is not an American company. Sure they market products in the USA, and all over the world, but they are a Taiwanese company, owned by another Taiwanese company, Pegatron.

    Marketing BS in the PC hardware world is common, and remains in the face of users knowing better. Since the X58 board days, the Marvell SATA chipsets included on most X58 boards are advertised as "SATA 6Gb/s". PC enthusiasts have known for years that these Marvell SATA chipsets perform poorly, and are only capable of being connected to one PCIe 2.0 lane, at 5Gb/s max. That is not per SATA port, that is per chipset, one PCIe 2.0 lane in, and one out.

    Calling this interface SATA 6Gb/s is simply false. To this day, and now including the ASMedia SATA chipset (with the same PCIe lane architecture as the Marvell SATA chipsets), these SATA interfaces are still advertised as SATA 6Gb/s. My Z87 mother board specs its ASMedia SATA chipset as SATA 6Gb/s. My X58 board was available in the summer of 2010, and it's now the summer of 2013, and the marketing specs for these chips has not changed.

    How does that happen? You tell me.

    Why did ASRock show off a Z87 Extreme 11 board at the Computex 2013 PC hardware show, with 22 SSDs connected to it? For the attention, look at me! If you read the details in a few of the news articles about it, the board was not even functioning completely, the SAS chip was in JBOD mode. Also, 16 drives were connected to the SAS chip, its maximum. Is this similar to a Concept car seen at Auto shows?

    The articles about this board all say no release date was given.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: I am beginning to get very annoyed and frustrated with ASRock.

    Quote Originally Posted by parsec View Post
    imo, corporate america does not apply here, because asrock is not an american company. Sure they market products in the usa, and all over the world, but they are a taiwanese company, owned by another taiwanese company, pegatron.

    Marketing bs in the pc hardware world is common, and remains in the face of users knowing better. Since the x58 board days, the marvell sata chipsets included on most x58 boards are advertised as "sata 6gb/s". Pc enthusiasts have known for years that these marvell sata chipsets perform poorly, and are only capable of being connected to one pcie 2.0 lane, at 5gb/s max. That is not per sata port, that is per chipset, one pcie 2.0 lane in, and one out.

    Calling this interface sata 6gb/s is simply false. To this day, and now including the asmedia sata chipset (with the same pcie lane architecture as the marvell sata chipsets), these sata interfaces are still advertised as sata 6gb/s. My z87 mother board specs its asmedia sata chipset as sata 6gb/s. My x58 board was available in the summer of 2010, and it's now the summer of 2013, and the marketing specs for these chips has not changed.

    How does that happen? You tell me.
    What you are stating is one of the things that I believe is very wrong in the PC Industry - overstating a product or part of a products ability and it's not on if it can't actually do 6gb/s then don't say it can, I think the world has become very complacent and in the situation where these things occur class action suits are required be it by either an individual or a group of individuals against the manufacturer of the chips and if the motherboard manufacturer is aware of the deviation at does not post a caveat saying that the chip will not perform as expected and it can be proven that they were complicit with the supplier because they knew about they problem they should be sued as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by parsec View Post
    For the attention, look at me! If you read the details in a few of the news articles about it, the board was not even functioning completely, the sas chip was in jbod mode. Also, 16 drives were connected to the sas chip, its maximum. Is this similar to a concept car seen at auto shows?

    The articles about this board all say no release date was given.
    I don't attend auto shows and what I know about cars is where to put the petrol in ; however the board functioning in JBOD mode wouldn't have been a problem as this is what we were going to be using it on a per drive per operating system basis for anyway in conjunction with Microsoft Storage Spaces for the Windows 8 OS so raiding wasn't an issue.
    One thing that did surprise me is that they were using dual stacked SATA connectors to exit connections from the motherboard to the SAS/SATA drives I would have thought that four SFF-8087's would have been a more efficient use of space ; however I suppose in a $ based comparison SATA cables are far cheaper as are the headers against a more space effective product.

    I still feel however if you are releasing a range - you are releasing the whole range - otherwise it can't be called the range.
    I also feel that if you can't release it now you shouldn't show it now , doing so makes for a poor impression of your company.
    I believe that ASRock should find a large boot on a coiled spring and build an outrageous machine that kicks the responsible employees butt until the board is available to the public in good working order.

    One of the other things that ticks me off is when you buy a 2G hard drive and manufacturers specify G in the respect of 1000(n) they only say G for marketing purposes and to make it sound more impressive - the computer industry has always been 1024(n) and just because people cant tell the difference between kb and kg - so what let them actually learn something for a change instead of bending to the will of the dominant populis who believe mediocrity is a goal because they have achieved it. To boot if what hard drive manufacturers are doing is correct then why isn't memory measurement done the same way? because those manufacturers got it wrong - deliberately.

    The only way things are going to change is enough people stand up and say - "this is not good enough" but it wont happen because people are content just to accept whatever crap is shoved down their throats and let the world will go to hell in a hand basket.
    Last edited by FalloutBoy; 07-04-2013 at 08:51 AM.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: I am beginning to get very annoyed and frustrated with ASRock.

    Quote Originally Posted by FalloutBoy View Post
    What you are stating is one of the things that I believe is very wrong in the PC Industry - overstating a product or part of a products ability and it's not on if it can't actually do 6gb/s then don't say it can, I think the world has become very complacent and in the situation where these things occur class action suits are required be it by either an individual or a group of individuals against the manufacturer of the chips and if the motherboard manufacturer is aware of the deviation at does not post a caveat saying that the chip will not perform as expected and it can be proven that they were complicit with the supplier because they knew about they problem they should be sued as well.
    I agree 1000%! On one hand, it seems a class action lawsuit is just sitting there, waiting to be noticed. On the other, do the usual magic words "Specification subject to change without notice" and "Up to..." are all that is needed to protect these companies?

    Quote Originally Posted by FalloutBoy View Post
    I don't attend auto shows and what I know about cars is where to put the petrol in ; however the board functioning in JBOD mode wouldn't have been a problem as this is what we were going to be using it on a per drive per operating system basis for anyway in conjunction with Microsoft Storage Spaces for the Windows 8 OS so raiding wasn't an issue.
    One thing that did surprise me is that they were using dual stacked SATA connectors to exit connections from the motherboard to the SAS/SATA drives I would have thought that four SFF-8087's would have been a more efficient use of space ; however I suppose in a $ based comparison SATA cables are far cheaper as are the headers against a more space effective product.

    I still feel however if you are releasing a range - you are releasing the whole range - otherwise it can't be called the range.
    I also feel that if you can't release it now you shouldn't show it now , doing so makes for a poor impression of your company.
    I believe that ASRock should find a large boot on a coiled spring and build an outrageous machine that kicks the responsible employees butt until the board is available to the public in good working order.
    Sorry to appear as an ASRock apologist, I originally just wanted to give a few reasons why the reality is not what you'd like it to be. But now I realize, here you are, wanting to be an ASRock customer, wanting to purchase this product, and simply requesting information about its release. Normally, it is respectful for a manufacture to provide some kind of response. I suppose it has only been one day since you started this thread, but how long does it take to reply with, "We are looking into this and will get back to you."

    Yes, this "ASRock support forum" also does not give a good impression of the company, check the Welcome to ASRock Technical Support Forum! sticky thread at the top of the forum page for an example of this. "Sean C" is the new support person that will be answering questions, whose first post in that thread is dated 5/5/2010. The last Sean C post made in this forum is dated 2/21/2011, almost two and a half years ago! Poor chumps still post in that thread, asking "Sean" for help to this day. But nothing has been changed on the first page of that thread. Given all this, it's clear IMO that the attitude is, who cares.

    Quote Originally Posted by FalloutBoy View Post
    One of the other things that ticks me off is when you buy a 2G hard drive and manufacturers specify G in the respect of 1000(n) they only say G for marketing purposes and to make it sound more impressive - the computer industry has always been 1024(n) and just because people cant tell the difference between kb and kg - so what let them actually learn something for a change instead of bending to the will of the dominant populis who believe mediocrity is a goal because they have achieved it. To boot if what hard drive manufacturers are doing is correct then why isn't memory measurement done the same way? because those manufacturers got it wrong - deliberately.

    The only way things are going to change is enough people stand up and say - "this is not good enough" but it wont happen because people are content just to accept whatever crap is shoved down their throats and let the world will go to hell in a hand basket.
    I agree 1000% with this as well. IMO, one of the problems with things like this is the number of uneducated customers that exist. You know as well as I that many PC enthusiasts still don't understand what you described, so what chance is there that the average person does? As soon as one HDD company listed capacity in the manner that makes it appear larger, if the others don't their product will appear smaller in capacity and thus less desirable. For all we know, this trend may have been started by an ignorant marketing person.

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    Default Re: I am beginning to get very annoyed and frustrated with ASRock.

    Quote Originally Posted by parsec View Post
    I agree 1000%! On one hand, it seems a class action lawsuit is just sitting there, waiting to be noticed. On the other, do the usual magic words "Specification subject to change without notice" and "Up to..." are all that is needed to protect these companies?



    Sorry to appear as an ASRock apologist, I originally just wanted to give a few reasons why the reality is not what you'd like it to be. But now I realize, here you are, wanting to be an ASRock customer, wanting to purchase this product, and simply requesting information about its release. Normally, it is respectful for a manufacture to provide some kind of response. I suppose it has only been one day since you started this thread, but how long does it take to reply with, "We are looking into this and will get back to you."

    Yes, this "ASRock support forum" also does not give a good impression of the company, check the Welcome to ASRock Technical Support Forum! sticky thread at the top of the forum page for an example of this. "Sean C" is the new support person that will be answering questions, whose first post in that thread is dated 5/5/2010. The last Sean C post made in this forum is dated 2/21/2011, almost two and a half years ago! Poor chumps still post in that thread, asking "Sean" for help to this day. But nothing has been changed on the first page of that thread. Given all this, it's clear IMO that the attitude is, who cares.



    I agree 1000% with this as well. IMO, one of the problems with things like this is the number of uneducated customers that exist. You know as well as I that many PC enthusiasts still don't understand what you described, so what chance is there that the average person does? As soon as one HDD company listed capacity in the manner that makes it appear larger, if the others don't their product will appear smaller in capacity and thus less desirable. For all we know, this trend may have been started by an ignorant marketing person.
    Well I finally got an answer to one of my E-Mails, at least now there is an answer.

    Hello,

    Z87 Extreme11/ac will be launched in the end of July.
    So, first boards should be available on market around Mid of August.

    Best regards


    ASRock Support


    ASRock Europe B.V.
    Bijsterhuizen 31-51
    6604 LV Wijchen
    The Netherlands
    HTPC, Home Theatre PC Manufacturer & Supplier - ASRock Inc.
    Last edited by FalloutBoy; 07-04-2013 at 04:20 PM.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: I am beginning to get very annoyed and frustrated with ASRock.

    Quote Originally Posted by FalloutBoy View Post
    I still feel however if you are releasing a range - you are releasing the whole range - otherwise it can't be called the range.
    That is only valid if the range is rigidly specified to start with. It hasn't been. Similarly, you could complain there's no extreme 5, 7, etc?

    Quote Originally Posted by FalloutBoy View Post
    One of the other things that ticks me off is when you buy a 2G hard drive and manufacturers specify G in the respect of 1000(n) they only say G for marketing purposes and to make it sound more impressive - the computer industry has always been 1024(n) and just because people cant tell the difference between kb and kg - so what let them actually learn something for a change instead of bending to the will of the dominant populis who believe mediocrity is a goal because they have achieved it. To boot if what hard drive manufacturers are doing is correct then why isn't memory measurement done the same way? because those manufacturers got it wrong - deliberately.

    The only way things are going to change is enough people stand up and say - "this is not good enough" but it wont happen because people are content just to accept whatever crap is shoved down their throats and let the world will go to hell in a hand basket.
    I don't know why they've done this, but I'm guessing marketing reasons may be involved. For memory it's a bit different because memory bank sizes have to be a power of two, but there's no such direct mapping for harddrives so they can get away with a base 10 number instead. It's not going to change however. Why? Because the average user doesn't understand, doesn't have an interest in understanding, and thus doesn't care. My mom doesn't care what's in her computer, she doesn't care how it works, she just cares that it works. Plus such a change would require every storage manufacturer to change their numbers or there would be competitive advantages to those who didn't, every (web)shop to follow with product information updates ... good luck with that!

    Also, another factor might be that most people just wouldn't be able to guess how much data they'd be able to store on their drive to start with anyway, it's too abstract. In the end it doesn't really matter.

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    Default Re: I am beginning to get very annoyed and frustrated with ASRock.

    Good points, but ....

    Read user reviews for their new ssd or hdd purchases and quite a few of them are really PO'd that they "lost" almost 10% of the advertised/published disk space from their large drives when they were formatted. In the good ol' days they only "lost" 4.8% or 7.4% of the disk space.
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    Default Re: I am beginning to get very annoyed and frustrated with ASRock.

    Quote Originally Posted by profJim View Post
    Good points, but ....

    Read user reviews for their new ssd or hdd purchases and quite a few of them are really PO'd that they "lost" almost 10% of the advertised/published disk space from their large drives when they were formatted. In the good ol' days they only "lost" 4.8% or 7.4% of the disk space.
    I guess those users didn't read SSD reviews before buying which often already explain that some space is lost because of technological restrictions. I'm not saying it's okay, but it's way beyond the point where it can be changed. What manufacturers could do (and afaik, sometimes do) is also specify the "actual formatted space". Still doesn't mean however that the resellers also pass on this information, or that buyers even see it.

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    Default Re: I am beginning to get very annoyed and frustrated with ASRock.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiari View Post
    I guess those users didn't read SSD reviews before buying which often already explain that some space is lost because of technological restrictions. I'm not saying it's okay, but it's way beyond the point where it can be changed. What manufacturers could do (and afaik, sometimes do) is also specify the "actual formatted space". Still doesn't mean however that the resellers also pass on this information, or that buyers even see it.
    Well no surely it would be unformatted space because the manufacturer does not know what you are going to format it with, it could be anything from FAT16 format through to a Linux Ext 4 system or a mix there of with 1 partition or 20 - it all makes a difference to formatted capacity but none to unformatted. Unformatted capacity is generally mentioned on the outer label of a hard drive and in most cases though I admit I haven't looked at a drive in the last four months it would contain it's CHS information as well.

    But the unformatted RAW capacity I still feel should be express as a ^2 it only makes sense that if you ask for a 2 TB drive you get a 2TB drive not a 2,000,000,000 however many zeros it is - it just doesn't track well when it says 2TB and yet its something like 1.9TB unformatted.

    People don't say I need a size of 8TB so I'm going to build an 8 TB raid array and then work out the number of drives needed by dividing by 1.9 they divide by 2 because the drive says 2TB.

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    Default Re: I am beginning to get very annoyed and frustrated with ASRock.

    Quote Originally Posted by profJim View Post

    Good points, but ....

    Read user reviews for their new ssd or hdd purchases and quite a few of them are really PO'd that they "lost" almost 10% of the advertised/published disk space from their large drives when they were formatted. In the good ol' days they only "lost" 4.8% or 7.4% of the disk space.

    To hard to do because they don't know how you are going to partition and format it or what you are going to format it with.
    Last edited by FalloutBoy; 07-04-2013 at 10:30 PM. Reason: oops missed the above quote

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