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Thread: Overclocking Issues X79 Extreme 4 and 3.20 Bios




  1. #11
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    Default Re: Overclocking Issues X79 Extreme 4 and 3.20 Bios

    Thank you profJim/parsec,

    I've just successfully rolled the bios back. Have just done a quick 15min check with Prime95 and the overclock is holding steady. Lucky escape, as flash roll-backs don't always work. If you have any pull with Asrock profJim, please get them to make it clear that the latest bios for all their X79 boards aren't fully compatible with SB E. It will save them and their costumers a lot of hassle.


    I was intending to get an Ivy-Bridge E, the main reason I updated the bios, but from what I've seen so far, the performance gain is quite small, especially given the price.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Overclocking Issues X79 Extreme 4 and 3.20 Bios

    Sorry to hear that you solved your problem so easily.
    We need a sticky thread in the ASRock forum that details the weakness of ASRock's approach to inadequate bios documentation and deleting older bios versions. This is an all too common problem with several other ASRock motherboard models.
    I hate to say it but ASRock really needs to help better protect users from themselves.

    Any volunteers?
    Hint: Parsec is a natural for this.
    Last edited by profJim; 08-11-2013 at 08:52 PM.
    Q9650 @ 4.10GHz [9x456MHz]
    P35-DS4 [rev: 2.0] ~ Bios: F14
    4x2GB OCZ Reaper PC2-8500 1094MHz @5-5-5-15
    MSI N460GTX Hawk Talon Attack (1GB) video card <---- SLI ---->
    Seasonic SS-660XP2 80 Plus Platinum psu (660w)
    WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data)
    Samsung 840 Pro 256GB SSD (boot)
    SLI @ 16/4 works when running HyperSLI
    Cooler Master 120XL Seidon push/pull AIO cpu water cooling
    Cooler Master HAF XB computer case (RC-902XB-KKN1)
    Asus VH242H 24" monitor [1920x1080]
    MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) video card
    Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium
    HT|Omega Claro plus+ sound card
    CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD UPS
    E6300 (R0) @ 3.504GHz [8x438MHz] ~~ P35-DS3L [rev: 1.0] ~ Bios: F9 ~~ 4x2GB Kingston HyperX T1 PC2-8500, 876MHz @4-4-4-10
    Seasonic X650 80+ gold psu (650w) ~~ Xigmatek Balder HDT 1283 cpu cooler ~~ Cooler Master CM 690 case (RC-690-KKN1-GP)
    Samsung 830 128GB SSD MZ-7PC128B/WW (boot) ~~ WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data) ~~ ZM-MFC2 fan controller
    HT|Omega Striker 7.1 sound card ~~ Asus VH242H monitor [1920x1080] ~~ Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
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  3. #13
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    Default Re: Overclocking Issues X79 Extreme 4 and 3.20 Bios

    Quote Originally Posted by profJim View Post
    Sorry to hear that you solved your problem so easily.
    We need a sticky thread in the ASRock forum that details the weakness of ASRocks approach to inadequate bios documentation and deleting older bios versions. This is an all too common problem with several other ASRock motherboard models.
    I hate to say it but ASRock really needs to help better protect users from themselves.

    Any volunteers?
    Hint: Parsec is a natural for this.
    Well I wouldn't say that this a case protecting users from themselves, it's the only bios version on the site and the information says nothing about breaking overclocking on SB E. In fact, it actually says don't attempt to roll back to older bios after updating to it. A very lucky escape on my part indeed! This one is on Asrock, not the users.

    What's your take on IB E?

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Overclocking Issues X79 Extreme 4 and 3.20 Bios

    For many years, many forum posts on the web have said "always go with the latest (and greatest) bios."
    Others say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

    I'm guessing that ASRock and possibly others aren't doing any regression testing to see if their newest bioses that support newer/different cpu models are still fully compatible with the earlier supported cpu processors. I wonder how hard it would be for the bios flashing program to check for a compatible cpu?

    IB E? I haven't checked it out yet.
    I'm still deciding if I want to build a 4770K system now that I've got a Q9650 o/c'd to 4.0GHz on my thoroughly modern P35-DS4 mobo.
    Last edited by profJim; 08-12-2013 at 09:09 AM. Reason: spelling
    Q9650 @ 4.10GHz [9x456MHz]
    P35-DS4 [rev: 2.0] ~ Bios: F14
    4x2GB OCZ Reaper PC2-8500 1094MHz @5-5-5-15
    MSI N460GTX Hawk Talon Attack (1GB) video card <---- SLI ---->
    Seasonic SS-660XP2 80 Plus Platinum psu (660w)
    WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data)
    Samsung 840 Pro 256GB SSD (boot)
    SLI @ 16/4 works when running HyperSLI
    Cooler Master 120XL Seidon push/pull AIO cpu water cooling
    Cooler Master HAF XB computer case (RC-902XB-KKN1)
    Asus VH242H 24" monitor [1920x1080]
    MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) video card
    Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium
    HT|Omega Claro plus+ sound card
    CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD UPS
    E6300 (R0) @ 3.504GHz [8x438MHz] ~~ P35-DS3L [rev: 1.0] ~ Bios: F9 ~~ 4x2GB Kingston HyperX T1 PC2-8500, 876MHz @4-4-4-10
    Seasonic X650 80+ gold psu (650w) ~~ Xigmatek Balder HDT 1283 cpu cooler ~~ Cooler Master CM 690 case (RC-690-KKN1-GP)
    Samsung 830 128GB SSD MZ-7PC128B/WW (boot) ~~ WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data) ~~ ZM-MFC2 fan controller
    HT|Omega Striker 7.1 sound card ~~ Asus VH242H monitor [1920x1080] ~~ Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium ~~ CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD U.P.S
    .


  5. #15
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    Default Re: Overclocking Issues X79 Extreme 4 and 3.20 Bios

    Quote Originally Posted by profJim View Post
    For many years, many forum posts on the web have said "always go with the latest (and greatest) bios."
    Others say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

    I'm guessing that ASRock and possibly others aren't doing any regression testing to see if there newest bioses that support newer/different cpu models are still fully compatible with the earlier supported cpu processors. I wonder how hard it would be for the bios flashing program to check for a compatible cpu?

    IB E? I haven't checked it out yet.
    I'm still deciding if I want to build a 4770K system now that I've got a Q9650 o/c'd to 4.0GHz on my thoroughly modern P35-DS4 mobo.

    Well, my CPU was the second revision of the 3930K. It just seems like a shocking oversight on Asrocks part, to remove all previous bios for their 2011 boards and upload a bios which doesn't work properly with SB Es, which of course, are now, have been for well over a year, and will be for another month, the only processors that can be used on these boards. Then don't even bother to tell anybody of the issue, not to mention, acknowledging that rolling back will probably break it for a lot of people, explaining why they removed older versions. Somebody really dropped the ball!
    Last edited by Lonewanderer; 08-11-2013 at 10:05 PM.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Overclocking Issues X79 Extreme 4 and 3.20 Bios

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonewanderer View Post
    Well, my CPU was the second revision of the 3930K. It just seems like a shocking oversight on Asrocks part, to remove all previous bios for their 2011 boards and upload a bios which doesn't work properly with SB Es, which of course, are now, have been for well over a year, and will be for another month, the only processors that can be used on these boards. Then don't even bother to tell anybody of the issue, not to mention, acknowledging that rolling back will probably break it for a lot of people, explaining why they removed older versions. Somebody really dropped the ball!
    Welcome to the world of SB CPU/Chipset boards, and their BIOS/UEFI updates for IVB CPUs.

    We first saw these issues with the SB 6 series chipset boards (P67, Z68, etc) and their BIOS/UEFI updates to support IVB CPUs. Actually, the issues were worse, failures to boot, boot loops, all kinds of weird things.

    I researched the BIOS updates of this kind as done by other mobo manufactures, and guess what, they basically are doing the same thing, no warnings about issues when using the BIOS with a SB CPU. That may have changed since I checked six months ago.

    This whole situation remains a bit mysterious, since I've found contradictory information (IMO), or the reality does not match theory. I need to check Intel's own X79 boards and their IVB-E support BIOS updates.. if I could, they don't exist yet. For example, this is an excerpt from an Intel made P67 and Z68 board's BIOS file download page:

    This download record provides three options for updating the BIOS of the following Intel® Desktop Boards: DP67BG, DZ68ZV. You only need to download one.

    Warning:
    BIOS version 2161 includes support for future 22nm processors. Due to structural changes in this BIOS version, once a board has been converted to this version or later, it will no longer be possible to downgrade the BIOS to version 2111 or earlier. Attempting a BIOS downgrade to a previous version may fail – the board BIOS will remain at its current version.


    That does not seem to be the case with your X79 board. It gets even stranger for Intel boards compared to ASR and other makes of boards, which look like they went in a different direction with this update.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Overclocking Issues X79 Extreme 4 and 3.20 Bios

    Quote Originally Posted by parsec View Post
    Welcome to the world of SB CPU/Chipset boards, and their BIOS/UEFI updates for IVB CPUs.

    We first saw these issues with the SB 6 series chipset boards (P67, Z68, etc) and their BIOS/UEFI updates to support IVB CPUs. Actually, the issues were worse, failures to boot, boot loops, all kinds of weird things.

    I researched the BIOS updates of this kind as done by other mobo manufactures, and guess what, they basically are doing the same thing, no warnings about issues when using the BIOS with a SB CPU. That may have changed since I checked six months ago.

    This whole situation remains a bit mysterious, since I've found contradictory information (IMO), or the reality does not match theory. I need to check Intel's own X79 boards and their IVB-E support BIOS updates.. if I could, they don't exist yet. For example, this is an excerpt from an Intel made P67 and Z68 board's BIOS file download page:

    This download record provides three options for updating the BIOS of the following Intel® Desktop Boards: DP67BG, DZ68ZV. You only need to download one.

    Warning:
    BIOS version 2161 includes support for future 22nm processors. Due to structural changes in this BIOS version, once a board has been converted to this version or later, it will no longer be possible to downgrade the BIOS to version 2111 or earlier. Attempting a BIOS downgrade to a previous version may fail – the board BIOS will remain at its current version.


    That does not seem to be the case with your X79 board. It gets even stranger for Intel boards compared to ASR and other makes of boards, which look like they went in a different direction with this update.
    Thanks parsec,

    Hmm, I was about to say that this obviously is a ploy by board manufacturers and Intel to push people into purchasing new processors. However, I've just received an email from Asrock tech support, with bios version 3.21 for X79 Extreme 4 attached? The tech says that they've tested it with my CPU and Prime95 for over three hours with no issues. So it seems Asrock are acknowledging that this current approach is a problem, and a bios should indeed support all CPUs that are compatible with a board. I would try it, but I'm reluctant to tempt fate twice! Maybe wait and see if this bios makes it onto their site.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Overclocking Issues X79 Extreme 4 and 3.20 Bios

    If we take a couple steps back and look at the bigger picture, IMO we can see this:

    Intel stated, claimed, advertised, that socket 1155 IVB CPUs could be used on SB 1155 chipset boards. A BIOS update to accomplish that is not a surprise. But the details matter, such as is a board with the IVB compatible BIOS still useable with a SB CPU? Basic information IMO, but try and find it. Intel should be the main source of that information, but it may not be that simple. Mother board manufactures apparently have the freedom to do things their way, and ignore Intel's procedures, etc, the result being more confusion.

    This is Intel's flowchart describing the BIOS update procedure to provide IVB CPU support on Intel's own 6 series chipset boards:

    Desktop Boards &mdash; Updating the BIOS to support 3rd Generation Intel® Core™ Processors

    What I see in this chart, is two "special" BIOS updates (3rd Gen-transition, and 3rd Gen-ready) are needed to provide IVB CPU support. An important part of the overall update is an update to the IME firmware version, which is part of the 3rd Gen-ready BIOS update.

    I'm a bit confused by the situation where the user is not changing to an IVB CPU. The instruction are simply update the BIOS to the latest version. No mention of avoiding the two special BIOS updates. It seems that the only BIOS version that must be avoided is the 3rd Gen-transition version. It also seems that as long as that BIOS version is not applied to a board, any of the following versions can be used with SB CPUs just fine.

    I found the following in what I believe is a 3rd Gen-transition BIOS version for an Intel Z68 board:

    "Known issue: Intel has identified an issue with this BIOS version, where the ability to overclock the system is not working after the BIOS update. Intel regrets any inconvenience caused by this issue and is working to provide corrected BIOS version as soon as possible.

    Warning:
    BIOS version 0040 includes support for future 22nm processors. Due to structural changes in this BIOS version, once a board has been converted to this version or later, it will no longer be possible to downgrade the BIOS to version 0032 or earlier. Attempting a BIOS downgrade to a previous version may fail – the board BIOS will remain at its current version.
    To fully enable support for future processors, follow the special BIOS update steps at Updating the BIOS on 6 Series chipset desktop boards."


    Here's that page: https://downloadcenter.intel.com/Det...&DownloadType=

    Sounds familiar? I can't comment on ASR's BIOS update for IVB CPU support method for their boards, as I don't know 100% how they are doing things compared to Intel. Obviously it is not the same as Intel's method. It seems every mobo manufacture does this update their own way.

    Will this be the same for X79 boards? So far it looks like it IMO. Intel has not added their IVB-E support BIOS updates for X79 boards yet, it will be interesting to see how that is done and documented.

    One last fact to add to the mix, I've used a SB CPU in an ASR IVB, Z77 chipset board, with virtually every BIOS version available for the board, and that PC has worked great since day one. No special BIOS versions needed for SB CPUs, and I've used all the standard Z77 drivers, IME software, etc.

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