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Thread: Back in the saddle looking for tips




  1. #11
    khronoe is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: Back in the saddle looking for tips

    So resuming from the power button doesn't work either. Going to keep going with trial and error process.

  2. #12
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    parsec is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Back in the saddle looking for tips

    I'm skeptical the wake from Sleep problem is due to UEFI booting, I have several PCs configured that way and they all Sleep and wake fine, with SSDs as the OS drive.

    I would check your board's UEFI for Sleep options, and set it to S3 or Auto. That's the only thing I ever configure for Sleep. Does your case's power LED flash on and off when in Sleep as it should be?

    What do you mean by, "... and only gotten progressively worse"? Did the PC wake from Sleep after the UEFI installation and then later fail to do so?

    I also don't understand, "... Even after a reboot it will not resume when it does this", and it will resume by cycling the power supply? Explain how that works, I'm lost.

    Do you have Windows 8 drivers for your mouse and keyboard? Using a USB 2.0 port for the mouse and keyboard? A mouse on a USB 3.0 port is unnecessary and does not enhance performance.

  3. #13
    khronoe is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: Back in the saddle looking for tips

    Well, understand that the only reason I'm leaning towards the UEFI configuration is because it seemed to work fine when I was using a regular HDD and regular boot. It could just be coincidence but I don't think so. Even if UEFI isn't the problem, there seems to be something related to the configuration that's causing this. All of the hardware is the same except for the SSD and it is now configured for Utra Fast boot.

    I can't define specific S modes on my board, I just have an option to Suspend to RAM, Auto or Disabled and from what I've read, setting that to Auto enables S3. And so far the only other setting that I've read that could cause the problem is the Check Ready Bit setting that could cause problems with the SSD.

    By progressively worse, here's the problem...

    First time, when I tried to wake it from mouse/keyboard, don't remember, the power light came on but the screen was blank and nothing else happened. I held the power button until it shut off and powered it on again and it resumed as normal.
    Next, over the next couple of days, even holding the power button to power it down and back up wouldn't work, it would do the same thing, just boot to a blank screen. This is when I tried flipping the switch on the power supply off and back on again after a few seconds. The next boot after switching the power supply off and on it would boot as normal.

    I wish the manuals for these boards gave a little more detailed information. At least I'd like to have some form of guidance from the official sources that would give recommended configuraitons haha.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Back in the saddle looking for tips

    Quote Originally Posted by khronoe View Post
    Well, understand that the only reason I'm leaning towards the UEFI configuration is because it seemed to work fine when I was using a regular HDD and regular boot. It could just be coincidence but I don't think so. Even if UEFI isn't the problem, there seems to be something related to the configuration that's causing this. All of the hardware is the same except for the SSD and it is now configured for Utra Fast boot.

    I can't define specific S modes on my board, I just have an option to Suspend to RAM, Auto or Disabled and from what I've read, setting that to Auto enables S3. And so far the only other setting that I've read that could cause the problem is the Check Ready Bit setting that could cause problems with the SSD.

    By progressively worse, here's the problem...

    First time, when I tried to wake it from mouse/keyboard, don't remember, the power light came on but the screen was blank and nothing else happened. I held the power button until it shut off and powered it on again and it resumed as normal.
    Next, over the next couple of days, even holding the power button to power it down and back up wouldn't work, it would do the same thing, just boot to a blank screen. This is when I tried flipping the switch on the power supply off and back on again after a few seconds. The next boot after switching the power supply off and on it would boot as normal.

    I wish the manuals for these boards gave a little more detailed information. At least I'd like to have some form of guidance from the official sources that would give recommended configuraitons haha.
    Well, I use Ultra Fast boot on three UEFI booting PCs with Windows 8, and all of them wake from Sleep fine. But that's just my experience with Intel boards.

    S3 Sleep is Suspend to RAM, S4 is Hibernate (S3 + memory contents written to OS drive), and S5 is shutdown/off.

    I've never heard of issues with the Check Ready Bit setting and SSDs. The point of the Check Ready Bit (among others) is for Windows to use that bit as the signal that all hardware is ready to wake from Sleep.

    Intel P67 chipset boards are known to have a wake from Sleep problem, my P67 board would fail waking ~80% of the time, and the UEFI/BIOS did not have a Check Ready Bit setting. The error messages in Windows logs about the wake from Sleep failure specifically mentioned a device driver not "responding" in the appropriate amount of time, ~700ms. Without the Check Ready bit having priority, Windows defaults to its programmed thresholds, which IMO were to short for certain hardware.

    One clue about this issue P67 owners noticed is it seemed to happen when high-end power supplies were used. Cheaper low-end PSUs used with these boards would wake from Sleep fine. After some research I noticed that the high-end PSUs all had the universal AC input (100V - 240V AC) design, while the PSUs that worked were almost 100% single AC voltage input types. The universal AC input PSUs take ~ one hundred milliseconds longer to start up than the non-universal AC input units. The device that suffered most from this was the video card, which IMO is the device (driver) that failed to start fast enough for Windows. All that is simply my analysis of this problem, and to this day I don't know if it is correct or not. I noticed that all of the mother boards I bought beyond the Intel 6 series chipsets board I have all had a Check Ready bit setting in the UEFI.

    I have Check Ready bit enabled, and any Sleep mode setting set to S3 or equivalent. I only use SSDs as the OS drive on all my PCs, and have never had any problems with them whatsoever.

    Power cycling the PSU changes what is used for detection of things being ready, to the "PSU Ok" signal sent from the PSU to the board.

    I suggest trying enabling Check Ready bit and using the Suspend to RAM setting, and see how it goes. Can't guarantee the result, but this works for me.

  5. #15
    khronoe is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: Back in the saddle looking for tips

    I have left the check ready bit and Suspend to RAM settings enabled all along and still have the issue. Although I discovered this evening, it's not relate to the computer going to sleep, it's on boot. I had powered it down completely (regular shutdown) and when I powered it back on it gave the same black screen and I had to power it off and back on and it booted fine (this time just from the power button). The pattern is tricky to nail down to say the least.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Back in the saddle looking for tips

    Sooo, this is not a wake from Sleep issue, Ok.

    The black screen on start up from a normal shutdown, happens during post and you are unable to see anything on the screen at all, correct or not?

    Does your monitor go into power saving mode, meaning it gets no signal from the video source, in your case the EVGA 660 video card, or not?

    Assuming you are UEFI booting, the video source must support the UEFI "GOP" protocol. My ASR board will display an error during POST if the video source does not support GOP when UEFI booting. My board also has a CSM option in the UEFI, so that error condition is covered, but given the unusual way your board apparently configures UEFI booting, the POST/UEFI may not error check that situation.

    Any idea if your card supports UEFI booting? I had to do a VBIOS update on my EVGA 650 card to support GOP before I could use it for UEFI booting.

  7. #17
    khronoe is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: Back in the saddle looking for tips

    Additional info for confirmation....I booted the system yesterday from cold boot after a normal shut down and I did have the same problem, but that's the first time it's happened that way. Needless to say, you are correct as I discovered yesterday, it is not a sleep problem, it's a boot problem.

    The monitor does power on and it not in sleep mode.

    My card originally did not support GOP and like you I did get an error at first but I did get the firmware update from EVGA before I configured UEFI boot. I have an EVGA Geforce 6600 GT 2 GB. At this point, I'm beginning to think it's a compatibility issue between the motherboard and video card or something similar that won't be resolved until there is either a UEFI update for my mobo or a firmware update for the video card.

    After our discussion here, I don't think I've overlooked any of the normal stuff or configured anything incorrectly unless you can think of anything else?

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Back in the saddle looking for tips

    Quote Originally Posted by khronoe View Post
    Additional info for confirmation....I booted the system yesterday from cold boot after a normal shut down and I did have the same problem, but that's the first time it's happened that way. Needless to say, you are correct as I discovered yesterday, it is not a sleep problem, it's a boot problem.

    The monitor does power on and it not in sleep mode.

    My card originally did not support GOP and like you I did get an error at first but I did get the firmware update from EVGA before I configured UEFI boot. I have an EVGA Geforce 6600 GT 2 GB. At this point, I'm beginning to think it's a compatibility issue between the motherboard and video card or something similar that won't be resolved until there is either a UEFI update for my mobo or a firmware update for the video card.

    After our discussion here, I don't think I've overlooked any of the normal stuff or configured anything incorrectly unless you can think of anything else?
    I feel safe assuming that your video card is an EVGA 660, and not a 6600 AGP card, as it states in this post. Sorry, a nitpick for details.

    A video card incompatibility is possible, for several reasons. The last UEFI update was 2.00 in 10/18/2012. That was prior to the release of the Nvidia chips used in 600 series products, IIRC. While IMO ASRock boards have fewer compatibility issues with hardware than other boards, the one area they do have problems with is video card compatibility. That I base on the number of posts about that topic in this forum, and the descriptions in the ASRock UEFI/BIOS downloads. It looks like ASRock will check into this possibility.

    I never had an issue like yours with my EVGA GTX 650 video card, but again I'm using it on an ASR Intel mother board. That is, with the GOP VBIOS update and UEFI booting. It worked fine at startup before and after the VBIOS update. It's good that you saw the non-GOP error message during POST, which means your board should have all of ASRock's UEFI booting compatibility updates in your board's UEFI. I should say I never had any issues configuring, installing, and using UEFI booting on two different ASRock boards, they clearly have that right IMO.

    EDIT: Have you tried any other EVGA drivers for your card? There are three Beta drivers for 600 series cards, although they seem mainly for compatibility with Windows 8.1. What version EVGA driver are you using?
    Last edited by parsec; 08-28-2013 at 09:31 AM.

  9. #19
    khronoe is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: Back in the saddle looking for tips

    Haha, yes I typed an extra 0 by mistake on the video card.

    I normally use the stock Nvidia drivers since they are often the same thing the card manufacturers have available. I just checked the latest build for the 660 and it's the same version number as the latest directly from Nvidia unless EVGA does some tweaking?

    My next question then is out of ignorance and based on previous experience...but...would the driver make any difference at all in this scenario since it's a boot problem? I mean in years past it wouldn't because it was only utilized in Windows. I only ask because I'm not sure if the driver plays a part in the GOP functions.

    At this point, I'm not sure if it's worth the added (current) trouble versus the classic boot configuration? I mean aside from faster boot times, what else am I really gaining right now? Again, asking out of ignorance as I"m learning.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Back in the saddle looking for tips

    Good question about UEFI booting, at this time the differences are minor to most users, since all the UEFI capabilities are not used or needed.

    The main one is the UEFI POST/startup speed for most users. Secure Boot is the feature usually mentioned, although proving its worth is difficult. Do you have that option in your UEFI?

    More advanced is the use of different option ROMs, such as the AMD RAID configuration interface you used to configure UEFI booting (seems weird to me, but whatever...) UEFI compatible OROMs can be larger than BIOS firmware OROMs, and use more of the system's resources (BIOS firmware can only address 1MB of memory, for example.) Multiple OROMs of the same type can be installed and used, given that options exist to select them. In general, the BIOS and UEFI OROMs are different for the same purpose, they are not shared. So the AMD RAID OROM used with BIOS firmware will likely be simpler and not offer all the options the UEFI firmware RAID OROM does.

    In my UEFI, I can toggle between UEFI and BIOS firmware booting with the CSM option. That can also be done toggling Secure Boot, if the CSM option is not available. Do you know how to switch between the two startup modes?

    The video driver itself does not do anything before Windows starts, but it might install itself differently given the different VBIOS. Or internal settings are different with the other VBIOS. A longshot, just a thought.

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