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Thread: AM1H-ITX motherboard thinks there is a discrete video card present, but there is none




  1. #11
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    Default Re: AM1H-ITX motherboard thinks there is a discrete video card present, but there is none

    That was a good sequence of settings and attempts, and my board's UEFI does the same thing as yours, when Ultra Fast is selected, the CSM option disappears.

    Sorry, I wanted to confirm if the behavior of ASRock's UEFIs were consistent, without giving you any information that might bias the result.

    The good news (?) is we are now at the point of determining if ASRock has included the correct VBIOS for GOP support on your board. Now that we have confirmed how your UEFI's UI behaves, we can rule out any mistaken settings.

    So please give this configuration a try and let me know what happens:

    Set Fast Boot to Disabled.

    Set Secure Boot to Disabled (not important, but removes it as a variable.)

    Set CSM to Disabled.

    In the Boot order menu, you should select the entry "Windows Boot Manager", which is the UEFI booting entry for your OS drive. What is your OS drive?

    Save and exit, and see what happens.

    All of this will cause UEFI booting to occur and test the VBIOS's GOP support.

    BTW, msinfo32 cannot tell the difference between UEFI booting and Legacy booting, all it does is check the OS drive's installation. I have a way to easily show that a PC has UEFI booted besides msinfo32, but that will be the last test IF you get past this test.

    Good luck, I will be able to watch this thread all day today.

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    Default Re: AM1H-ITX motherboard thinks there is a discrete video card present, but there is none

    As per your instructions, I set Fast Boot to Disabled, Secure Boot to Disabled, and CSM to Disabled. Then I checked the Boot Order menu, and "Windows Boot Manager" already occupies the #1 slot, so I left it as such.

    My OS drive is a Samsung SSD on which Windows 8.1 (64 bit) is installed. The only other drive present is an optical drive, but it does not show up in the Boot Order menu when CSM is disabled (following a reboot after the settings are saved).

    These settings were saved and when rebooted, no error message appeared and it booted into Windows 8.1 just fine. I shut down the PC and booted up again several times just to make sure, and each time it booted up fine into the OS without any error messages.

    By the way, thanks on the information about msinfo32 not being able to tell the difference between UEFI and Legacy booting. I will keep that in mind.

    So far so good, I am ready for the next step.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: AM1H-ITX motherboard thinks there is a discrete video card present, but there is none

    That all sounds good, and you should be UEFI booting now. The PC startup should be quite fast now, right?

    Another test you can do is in the UEFI, set CSM to Enabled. You may need to fix the boot order after that, as in save and exit, go right back into the UEFI, and choose the entry "AHCI Samsung...". This will cause Legacy booting to occur, which your Win 8.1 installation should do fine. If you try this, you will notice the difference in the start up and POST displays, among other things the font is larger. Once familiar with this, you'll know the difference between booting either way. To change back to UEFI booting, set CSM to Disabled, and fix the boot order if necessary to Windows Boot Manager.

    For a final confirmation, download and run this hardware monitoring program, HWiNFO64: HWiNFO, HWiNFO32/64 - Download

    You can download the portable version so you don't need to install it, but up to you.

    The "Summary" display looks like this:

    AM1H-ITX motherboard thinks there is a discrete video card present, but there is none-hwinfo-uefi-booting-png

    Note in the lower left portion of the display, on the "BIOS Date" and "BIOS Version" line, just to the right you'll see "UEFI". That must be in green as in the picture, which indicates UEFI booting. If it is not green, that indicates Legacy booting. I'm 99% sure you are UEFI booting now, but want to prove that 100%.

    If you see the green UEFI in HWiNFO64's Summary screen, and/or can tell the difference between UEFI and Legacy booting, you know you are UEFI booting. Sorry to drag this on forever...

    If all of this is fine, then try setting Fast Boot to "Fast", and see how it goes. If you boot fine, then try "Ultra Fast".

    If Ultra Fast fails, then there might be a bug in the UEFI of your board.

    Ultra Fast is just an option that requires UEFI booting, but should not change the CSM setting, or become the switch setting between UEFI and Legacy booting.

    If a PC is UEFI booting, regardless of the Fast Boot setting, it must have a GOP compliant video source. I've tested video cards that were not GOP compatible, and then I would see the message you get when attempting to UEFI boot. They would fail regardless of the Fast Boot setting.

    The only other scenario I can think of, is for some reason your PC has not been UEFI booting (CSM set to Enabled), until you started using Ultra Fast. That finally disabled CSM, and only in that case the video source's GOP compatibility was tested, and you found it actually isn't.

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    Default Re: AM1H-ITX motherboard thinks there is a discrete video card present, but there is none

    Thanks for your detailed explanation, I'm learning a lot. I smiled when I saw you mentioned HWiNFO64, because I already have it installed on this PC (so I saved a step right there). This is always one of the first programs I install on all my new system builds because of the wealth of information it provides.

    HWiNFO64 does show me UEFI in green, and the BIOS date reads 2/19/14 and the BIOS version reads P1.00

    So, in the UEFI, I set CSM to Enabled, and saved, and then rebooted and re-entered into the UEFI. For the first Boot option, I set it to "AHCI P0: Samsung SSD 830 Series", and then saved and rebooted back into UEFI just to make sure the setting stayed as is.

    When I rebooted, there appears in large font this message: "Reboot and select proper Boot Device or insert Boot media in selected Boot device and press a key." Pressing keys causes this message to repeat itself. I entered the UEFI again to check the settings, and the Samsung SSD is in the first slot in the Boot priority order, just as it was supposed to be. But I keep getting that error message when I try to boot.

    I then tried to boot from the Samsung SSD directly from the Boot Menu (by tapping F11), but I get the same message in large font: "Reboot and select Proper Boot device ..."

    It seems that I can't boot from the drive when I'm in Legacy Mode. Is this normal?

  5. #15
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    Default Re: AM1H-ITX motherboard thinks there is a discrete video card present, but there is none

    No it's not, and I just learned my Win 8.1 installation did the same thing. Not sure what is up with that, I just Legacy booted my other 8.1 PC, but that one is Update 1.

    Regardless, the only point of that was to demonstrate the difference between UEFI and Legacy booting, so forget that for now.

    Given what HWiNFO64 shows, start trying the Fast Boot settings, although we pretty much know what will happen with Ultra Fast.

    One of the side affects of using Ultra Fast is certain things in POST are skipped or run in parallel, which then finishes so fast, that the time interval usually spent for POST to complete also allowed other things on a mobo to start up that are not specifically part of POST.

    For example, when I use the Ultra Fast setting, I don't get all my fan speed readings in A-Tuning or HWiNFO64. I'm guessing that something related to the video source is not complete in the time available, and it then fails the GOP verification.

    Or, back to my question in my first post in this thread, how do you know that the integrated video VBIOS supports GOP? I've never seen that info yet.

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    Default Re: AM1H-ITX motherboard thinks there is a discrete video card present, but there is none

    One interesting observation to report. I changed the Boot priority so that "Windows Boot Manager" was #1. The other settings, I left the same (CSM Enabled, Fast Boot Disabled, and Secure Boot Disabled). I saved and rebooted. This time Windows 8.1 booted up fine without the "Reboot and select proper Boot Device..." error message.

    When Windows 8.1 loaded, I opened HWiNFO64, and this time the UEFI indicator was no longer green, it was black. So this would indicate Windows booted in legacy mode?

    Now to test Fast Boot. When I went back to the UEFI, I changed Fast Boot to "Fast Boot". The CSM option disappeared right after (as we expect). I saved and it rebooted into Windows 8.1 just fine without any error messages. In HWiNFO64, the UEFI indicator again shows up in green. Apparently Windows has now booted in UEFI mode.

    Quote Originally Posted by parsec View Post
    how do you know that the integrated video VBIOS supports GOP? I've never seen that info yet.
    When I was searching for the right processor to go with this motherboard, there were only 4 types of processors available for the AM1 socket (and at this time still only 4 available). All of them are the AMD Kabini APUs with integrated Radeon R3 series graphics.

    On the AMD site ( AMD Athlon ) it states about this processor: "support for Windows 8.1 for an immersive experience on the most advanced OS". I took that as supporting the fast boot features of Windows 8 which would involve taking advantage of the hardware's UEFI ability to fast boot as well. I know Windows 8 has a Fast Startup option that can work without UEFI, but the newest and latest hardware such as these Kabini processors being released when the UEFI era has already been with us for a while now should support common UEFI standards such as UEFI GOP.

    I admit I have not seen any conclusive documentation which unequivocally states that the Radeon R3 series implements support for UEFI GOP, and I could be wrong about this, maybe in fact it does not after all. But I would find that incredibly hard to believe.

    I will see if I can find more information about this.
    Last edited by raltere; 05-13-2014 at 03:45 PM.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: AM1H-ITX motherboard thinks there is a discrete video card present, but there is none

    Quote Originally Posted by raltere View Post
    One interesting observation to report. I changed the Boot priority so that "Windows Boot Manager" was #1. The other settings, I left the same (CSM Enabled, Fast Boot Disabled, and Secure Boot Disabled). I saved and rebooted. This time Windows 8.1 booted up fine without the "Reboot and select proper Boot Device..." error message.

    When Windows 8.1 loaded, I opened HWiNFO64, and this time the UEFI indicator was no longer green, it was black. So this would indicate Windows booted in legacy mode?
    Yes it does. You may have also noticed that any of the POST, etc, displays before Windows boots are in a larger font. I forgot you DO need to still choose Windows Boot Manager as the boot device, not the AHCI entry for your OS drive. I rarely change to Legacy booting, sorry about that...

    You now can see why UEFI booting is not very popular, given the many details you must remember that are different than strictly using a Legacy booting installation.

    Quote Originally Posted by raltere View Post
    Now to test Fast Boot. When I went back to the UEFI, I changed Fast Boot to "Fast Boot". The CSM option disappeared right after (as we expect). I saved and it rebooted into Windows 8.1 just fine without any error messages. In HWiNFO64, the UEFI indicator again shows up in green. Apparently Windows has now booted in UEFI mode.
    That is at it should be, you have done your first UEFI to Legacy, back to UEFI booting! I know, big deal, but it does verify that your Win 8.1 installation was done correctly for UEFI booting, since Windows still puts a "protective MBR" partition on this type of installation, which IMO is a good thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by raltere View Post
    When I was searching for the right processor to go with this motherboard, there were only 4 types of processors available for the AM1 socket (and at this time still only 4 available). All of them are the AMD Kabini APUs with integrated Radeon R3 series graphics.

    On the AMD site ( AMD Athlon ) it states about this processor: "support for Windows 8.1 for an immersive experience on the most advanced OS". I took that as supporting the fast boot features of Windows 8 which would involve taking advantage of the hardware's UEFI ability to fast boot as well. I know Windows 8 has a Fast Startup option that can work without UEFI, but the newest and latest hardware such as these Kabini processors being released when the UEFI era has already been with us for a while now should support common UEFI standards such as UEFI GOP.

    I admit I have not seen any conclusive documentation which unequivocally states that the Radeon R3 series implements support for UEFI GOP, and I could be wrong about this, maybe in fact it does not after all. But I would find that incredibly hard to believe.

    I will see if I can find more information about this.
    That is reasonable, no problem. Virtually no one states their video source is GOP compliant, or I should say the VBIOS of the video source. For example, Intel has never stated (that I can find) that their on-CPU graphics is GOP compliant. It is, or I should say, can be. This is from the description of a UEFI/BIOS update for one of my ASRock, Intel-based boards:

    Version 2.00: 1. Update VBIOS...

    Version 2.10: 1. Support Windows 8...

    Note: "Ultra Fast" is only supported by below conditions.
    1. OS is Windows 8.
    2. Graphics supports UEFI GOP.


    Notice that it seems the UEFI/BIOS was being prepared for Windows 8 support, and UEFI booting, with the update to the VBIOS of the on-CPU graphics. This was for a board that came out a bit before Win 8 existed, so the VBIOS, etc, updates were required to support its capabilities.

    Everything I have read about UEFI booting seemed to say GOP support was needed for UEFI booting. That also seemed to be the case for video card manufactures, since all video cards (that are capable of becoming GOP compliant, older ones cannot) at the time (early 2013) needed a VBIOS update to support GOP/UEFI booting. IF it is true that GOP support ONLY is needed for using the Ultra Fast setting, then I don't completely understand all this.

    Given that Ultra Fast does not work for you, and you have a UEFI booting installation, the only thing that can be wrong is your board's UEFI does not have the appropriate VBIOS. Would you agree?

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    Default Re: AM1H-ITX motherboard thinks there is a discrete video card present, but there is none

    Quote Originally Posted by parsec View Post
    Everything I have read about UEFI booting seemed to say GOP support was needed for UEFI booting. That also seemed to be the case for video card manufactures, since all video cards (that are capable of becoming GOP compliant, older ones cannot) at the time (early 2013) needed a VBIOS update to support GOP/UEFI booting. IF it is true that GOP support ONLY is needed for using the Ultra Fast setting, then I don't completely understand all this.
    Neither do I. Maybe when UEFI becomes more prevalent, more of the details of its intricacies will be revealed to us.

    Quote Originally Posted by parsec View Post
    Given that Ultra Fast does not work for you, and you have a UEFI booting installation, the only thing that can be wrong is your board's UEFI does not have the appropriate VBIOS. Would you agree?
    Do you mean the Athlon 5350 APU does not have the appropriate VBIOS? I thought the motherboard does not have a VBIOS. Can you clarify?

  9. #19
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    Default Re: AM1H-ITX motherboard thinks there is a discrete video card present, but there is none

    Quote Originally Posted by raltere View Post
    Do you mean the Athlon 5350 APU does not have the appropriate VBIOS?
    Yes, that is what I am assuming is the main explanation of the issue. There might be another explanation.

    The 5350 and your board are both very new products, about a month old, so is it possible all the details have not been sorted out yet? IMO, sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by raltere View Post
    I thought the motherboard does not have a VBIOS. Can you clarify?
    The example I gave in my last post about my ASRock Z77 board, which uses Intel processors with on-CPU graphics, is meant to show that this type of graphics have at least some form of a VBIOS. It exists as part of the board's UEFI/BIOS file.

    My ASRock Z77 board had to have an UEFI update with a new VBIOS for the on-CPU graphics to support GOP. There are multiple examples of ASRock boards that have similar UEFI/BIOS updates. Of course I can't find an example among any ASRock AMD boards, but why should AMD on-CPU graphics be any different?

    Otherwise what is the explanation? A bug in the UEFI code when Ultra Fast is used? I'm just going with the simplest explanation given the information and experiences that we have seen to be true in the past. Beyond this, I don't have an explanation for your issue.

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    Default Re: AM1H-ITX motherboard thinks there is a discrete video card present, but there is none

    There has been a most interesting and unusual twist to this "Ultra Fast Boot" "UEFI GOP" saga. It may cause us to question previous assumptions we may have come up with so far.

    With no other ideas to test, I decided to replace the HDMI cable connecting the PC to the HDTV (just to eliminate all possible causes, such as a defective HDMI cable). I knew this was unlikely to affect the outcome, but I did it anyway. In the UEFI, I changed Secure Boot to Enabled, and Fast Boot to "Ultra Fast Boot". I saved and rebooted.

    As I expected, I still got the "The VBIOS of your discrete VGA card does not support UEFI GOP... " error message with different HDMI cables that I tried.

    Now here is where it gets interesting. I decided to test the AM1H-ITX motherboard's DVI port. So I got a DVI to HDMI adapter and connected the DVI end to the motherboard's DVI port, and the HDMI end to the HDTV.

    In bootup, it booted straight to the Windows 8.1 desktop WITHOUT any error messages!!

    I rebooted the PC several times just to make sure sure this was not a fluke, and I re-checked the UEFI to see indeed the setting was still on "Ultra Fast Boot" which it was. It boots everytime in Ultra Fast Boot mode to the desktop with no error messages. So it does appear to be Ultra Fast booting. I checked HWiNFO, and yes, the UEFI indicator there appears in green.

    Indeed it is a very fast bootup. I timed it at 10 seconds, from the point of pushing the power button on the PC to when the Windows 8.1 desktop appears. Unfortunately, the downside is I get no sound, as DVI does not carry audio.

    With this development, we may have to draw some new theories. I'd certainly like to hear your thoughts on this.

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