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Thread: Defective Mobo - What to do?




  1. #21
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    Default Re: Defective Mobo - What to do?

    Hi SelfGovern thanks so much. Yeah I plugged everything in. 6+8 for the graphics card, 8 for the cpu, cpu fan is working. But no love now.

    I will take it back to the guy and see if he can just make it work, hopefully with the new power. You wouldn't believe the various comp problems I have had recently, it must be my year.

    Home comp is now performing like a champ, and that was the worst one by far, the one that went back once. The other one was never a huge problem at all.

    Thanks again for the checklist.

    Quote Originally Posted by SelfGovern View Post
    "top-down blowing fan" almost certainly refers to the CPU cooler. Some have a heatsink that supports a fan blowing air essentially across the CPU; others have a fan that blows down onto the CPU -- and the latter is what I would think of as a "top-down blowing fan" -- we're not talking about case fans, but the CPU heatsink/fan combo. When changing power supplies, it's important to make sure you - connect the CPU fan to the appropriate fan header on the motherboard; - connect the CPU power header (4- or 8-pin connector from power supply to a dedicated CPU socket near the processor) - connect the PCIe power Molex connector (if provided; many boards don't have one) - connect power to the graphics card (6- or 8-pin connector directly from power supply; one or both may be required)

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Defective Mobo - What to do?

    Hi again SelfGovern:

    I want to respond to the below comments. I will take this through to the end, as I have nearly a thousand bucks invested in these two comps, one is in the company and one at my home but the home one is still a biz computer. Not a lot for some, but enough for me. Plus its interesting once I get past the point of frustration, which I finally am haha.

    But at this point I am no longer urgent, I have had to cover for these already, so time is not critical.

    The home one, which I successfully changed the power, is still acting up, the same old story, even if it is about 80% better than before. I will change the video card next, and open an issue report this weekend. This is almost certainly going to go back to the factory again, just got to do it through the right channels. All I want is working comps so I will go through the process, I am wiling to try anything.

    I should mention that i have tried multiple versions of Ubuntu (12.04 - 14.04) and Mint (17, 16, and 13) is on this machine, with always the same results, although some worked somewhat better than others. And with multiple video card drivers. For the first 6 weeks, I tried very hard to fix them based on the assumption that the hardware was ok, checking logs, looking for fixes, making adjustments. I cursed 14.04 many, many times and thought they released it too soon, because it was obviously buggy. Then I finally realized it must be the hardware.

    To be honest, the crashes seem more related to graphical usage, like video and browsers. So maybe I will get lucky with changing the video card.

    I did do the memcheck, and both comps came out bad. That's why i sent the one back. But it doesn't matter what memory is in there, the memcheck reports back a lot of errors. I guess i will do another memcheck soon, but I want to do everything I can on my side first, unless they tell me to just send it back.

    And, I will get the other one working. It must just be a loose wire. I have to be careful because this small company which put it together is not going to want to do more and more to support me. So must use that option wisely and rarely.

    Thanks again for the support, it has made a big difference. Oh and I will change the hard drive too, hadn't thought of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by SelfGovern View Post
    Several things can cause a delayed crash. Those might include:
    - Heat
    - memory bad or going bad
    - memory leak (program or driver that allocates more and more RAM and doesn't release it, so less and less RAM is available, and it eventually runs out)
    - Virus/malware shenanigans
    - failing hard drive or other hardware (CPU, motherboard, some other component)
    - spilt water or food (included for completeness, not as a serious reason)

    It's possible to use tools like Windows PerfMon, virus checkers, memory diagnostics, etc., to try to identify the actual problem. If you're interested in trying to do that, we can give you some guidance. It's not typically an easy or quick process (barring such luck as, you choose to run memtest, and it identifies a bad memory module right off the bat) -- but having a stable system -- particularly in a business environment -- is worth more than a little time and money. (That's where your unique situation and values come in: is it better to build a new system, maybe getting better/faster/warrantied components at some cost in $$ and minimum time, or is it better to spend possibly a lot of time and some dollars to track down the problem, or is it a system where it doesn't matter, and you're happy leaving it alone until it gets worse?)

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Defective Mobo - What to do?

    And I just got two 120mm fans to put in the side panel of the case, blowing in and onto the board :-)

    The cpu also has a fan attached to it, blowing out, already.

  4. #24
    SelfGovern is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: Defective Mobo - What to do?

    Case fans are fine, but remember that what the "downward blowing fan" was talking about was the one that goes with your CPU cooler. That fan will have much more to do with keeping your CPU cool than any general case fan. What kind of cooler do you have on your CPU? You're having so many problems, I wonder if the guys who put your system together either used a really crappy heatsink, or didn't install it correctly. CPU heat problems can cause all kinds of crashes. Can you post a photo or two of your CPU fan/heatsink combo?

    There is a free program you can download and run, and which will show you your various system temps. Look up "Speedfan" and give it a shot. If it's a CPU temp problem, the program will help you identify it (run it while you play a graphics intensive game, and then a CPU-intensive program, and monitor the temps to see how high they get).

    Are you paying for all these upgrades out of your pocket? It seems to me that no matter how bad your system is, the guys who put it together owe you a working system, and you shouldn't be having to double the price of the system (or more!) because you're troubleshooting their problems.

    In the future, you might consider buying a major manufacturer's business-class machine. You could probably get one for less than the value of the time you've spent -- and at no more dollar cost. Or -- I've had really good success buying systems from HP's Business Outlet. These are refurbed or overstock computers. In particular, the low-end Professional Workstations when they go on clearance are great values for business use (they are head and shoulders better engineering than the consumer and standard business class PCs). Xeon processors, high performance memory, etc. HP Business Outlet | HP


    By the way, what are you going to do about your forum name when you've gotten your problems fixed?

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Defective Mobo - What to do?

    Ha well you are quite the optimist! I guess I will worry about the username when or if this problem finally is resolved. Or I will have to get another troublesome computer to fix haha.

    Yes, I have paid for all this stuff, not thrilled about it but that's how it goes. Actually I did just buy a refurbished laptop this summer in the US, an HP for about 300 bucks, and am pretty happy with it (although they should have changed the battery which sucks, and I feel that with refurbished, well I mean come on go all the way, but I know its about keeping the price down). Its been very handy during this whole problem, we are using it in the office for now, connected to a big monitor and keyboard/mouse.

    To be honest I have kind of screwed myself. When you use a tiny shop and dictate all the components, AND check the online prices of all of them and demand the same price, then you aren't paying for much service. This guy probably will help a little, but it might be limited to a little troubleshooting, after that he is more than willing to send it back to the factory for me (presumably without checking anything himself). So, to be honest, I kind of screwed myself. Next time I will go to a bigger shop and build it with them, so that I can turn to them later and say fix it haha.

    It is easier to just buy a complete system or refurbished system, but I like to buy a custom system and hope this experience won't make me afraid to do that in the future. Because i use Linux it used to be fairly important to get precisely the right parts so I didn't have to deal with a lot of problems later. Probably not such a big factor anymore. So, will see.

    I will feed you back on the temp issue, I use linux so the program to use is called psensor, and while I didn't think it was a factor, it might be. Will send some pics and info later.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Defective Mobo - What to do?

    Well we might have something here finally. I used psensors to monitor my system, and it is complaining constantly about the CPUTIN and SYSTIN tempuratures. Also I don't know why none of the fan values ever seems to come on.

    Last night I was watching the temps, but the sensors it was using were more limited, I configured some new ones afterwards. Last night, the cpu value (temp1 in the pic below) got up to 43 or so, while the gpu got up to 57, but both came back down. I did have a crash last night but not when either of these values were high. It was a classic type, first Opera froze up but I could minimize and maximize other programs, then everything became unresponsive and it was frozen. In a situation like that if I can close opera the freeze might be avoided.

    Anyway here is a pic of the temps from last night, showing the CPUTIN and SYSTIN values (41 and 38 celcius) after running for some time.

    Are these values high? I don't know if psensor's default settings are suitable or not. It complains from the moment I turn the comp on practically.

    Hope you can open the image: imgur: the simple image sharer

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Defective Mobo - What to do?

    Ok and I just checked my bios, it seems there is one fan running and the others all say N/A so I guess I don't have them.

    But the cpu temp according to the bios is 50 c, and the M/B temp is 37 c, so the M/B temp is SYSTIN I guess.

    50 seems pretty high to me, and its somewhat higher than the CPUTIN, which is only about 45 c or so.

    This is after running for about 2 hours. It is the SYSTIN value that psensor doesn't like.

  8. #28
    SelfGovern is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: Defective Mobo - What to do?

    50C doesn't strike me as high -- people get worried when things get up to 80C or so, and 100 is the real danger zone.

    Look -- if you keep changing the saddle and stirrups and halter and shoes and rider on a horse, and it still comes up lame on the same leg, perhaps it's not the equipment or the rider -- it just may be that the horse has a problem. Similarly, if you keep changing out all the components and keep getting errors upon running memcheck... perhaps it's your motherboard. You shouldn't get any memory errors, ever. If you do have memory errors, they will eventually lead to data corruption, and errors thrown by a memory checking application most often mean that you've got bad RAM... but when you put in several different sticks, and don't have a problem, that's no longer likely (have you tried running the mem tests with a single DIMM installed?).

    So it's either one of four things:
    1) Your RAM is not compatible with your motherboard
    2) Your RAM is not "matched", that is, the two sticks in each pair are not close enough in specs to each other, and it creates errors when run in pairs, even though either module will test fine on its own
    3) Your motherboard(s) is defective
    4) You live too close to a nuclear power plant (or on top of an as-yet-undiscovered Uranium mine) that is shooting cosmic rays into your machine, randomly flipping bits and causing crashes.
    5) You're trying to overclock and have done a bollocks-bad job of it.

    So --
    1) Please tell us that you've not ever made any attempts to overclock this motherboard, and that everything is running at stock speeds.
    2) Save details of how you've customized your motherboard settings, and regardless of whether you think you've changed anything or not, clear CMOS to set things back to default settings.
    3) See if maybe, just maybe, things then run OK
    4) Verify that the RAM you are using is listed as compatible with/for your motherboard
    5) Ensure that the RAM you are using was bought in matched pairs, and that people have been careful to keep each of the pairs together as they were when purchased

    If all of that doesn't lead you to any conclusions, then I'd say it's possible you've potentially got a set of bad motherboards, as unusual as that would be.

    I can't stress enough how important it is to NOT have memory errors. Consider a financial spreadsheet or engineering drawing where a '+' gets changed to a '-' because of a problem with your memory (or compatibility issue between RAM and CPU). The results go from "not pretty" to "people die". A system crash is one way systems today deal with memory corruption (they can tell that a bit has been changed, and crash to prevent saving that corrupted data). Better systems have ECC, or error-correcting, memory, and can 'fix' that error due to built-in safeguards. But these systems pretty much don't exist in the consumer space due to extra cost and low demand (but they do exist in some of the high-end business desktops).

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Defective Mobo - What to do?

    Something is strange here, I wonder if the sensors are correct. Its listed as 26c here, I left the comp off all night so everything should be at room temp. But when I started up and went into bios, it had the cpu at 33 and the mobo at 31, which is impossible after just seconds of running time. Right now its listing the mobo at 40c and the CPU at 36c, but its barely hot to the touch and its only been like 15 minutes of run time.

  10. #30
    SelfGovern is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: Defective Mobo - What to do?

    I was going to ask why you thought something was wrong, but I know why you thought something was wrong, and I can tell you that CPU temps can shoot up very, very quickly until they reach steady state. And on top of that, the fans and heat-sink won't (in all liklihood) have become fully effective in the first few seconds of 'life' (the heat has to get from the actual CPU core, to the cap on the CPU, migrate to the conductive goop that ties the CPU and heatsink/fan together conductively, and then spread out to the heatsink fans (and possibly start boiling the fluid in the heatpipes, if your heatsink is so equipped). These things take time; heat travels much more slowly than it's generated in a CPU. So that's why I think that the numbers you've just posted are no indication of anything being amiss.

    That being said, yes, it's possible that your sensors are off, or that the program you're using doesn't correctly interpret the numbers it gets from your MB sensors. Do you know that it's been designed to correctly interpret and work with your particular motherboard? I remember when CPUSpeed had to be tuned for certain motherboards, because it was not reading things correctly (but the values were clearly 'off' in that case).

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