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Thread: ASRock X99 and their intention to use the extra pins on Haswell-E's LGA




  1. #1
    lwcdnet is offline Junior Member
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    Default ASRock X99 and their intention to use the extra pins on Haswell-E's LGA

    Hi,

    I just joined this forum, so i apologize if I am posting in the wrong place.

    I am ready to build a new system based on the X99 platform, and have my motherboard choices narrowed down to the following 3:

    - ASRock X99 OC Formula
    - ASUS Rampage V Extreme
    - Gigabyte GA-X99-SOC Champion

    I really like the ASRock OC Formula, but the one thing i'm getting hung up on, is that the other two boards i'm considering both are taking advantage of additional pins included on the Intel LGA2011-3 socket:

    ASUS: "Designed to break performance barriers, ASUS OC Socket utilizes extra pins to connect a proprietary circuit to contacts found on Haswell-E's land grid array (LGA). Combined with our customized UEFI, this exclusive feature enables higher DDR4 memory frequencies, lower latencies and enhanced stability while overclocking, extending all the way to extreme overclocking conditions, such as Liquid Nitrogen (LN2). OC Socket is 100% compatible with new Haswell-E LGA 2011-v3 CPUs, ensuring the ideal combination of overclocking performance and compatibility.

    Gigabyte: "Another change that GIGABYTE has made is adding additional pins to the LGA2011 socket. The LGA2011-V3 socket actually contains 2083 instead of 2011. The GIGABYTE X99-SOC Champion can enable the extra voltage and pins via a dip switch on the board. This allows for some additional voltage options in the BIOS and bypasses the FIVR".


    Does ASRock have any plans to take advantage of these extra pins in their X99 motherboards (OC Formula in particular) that can effectively increase performance and enhance stability? Actually, are these extra pins ONLY useful for those using Liquid Nitrogen, or are there other benefits, as ASUS seems to be claiming above, with increased DDR4 memory frequencies?


    Thanks for any info you have on ASRocks direction on this. Also, being that i plan to use this machine for gaming, and expect to be overclocking, I'd be interested in any other reasons you see for me to go with the OC Formula over the others.

    thanks,

    Larry

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    parsec's Avatar
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    Default Re: ASRock X99 and their intention to use the extra pins on Haswell-E's LGA

    Quote Originally Posted by lwcdnet View Post
    Hi,

    I just joined this forum, so i apologize if I am posting in the wrong place.

    I am ready to build a new system based on the X99 platform, and have my motherboard choices narrowed down to the following 3:

    - ASRock X99 OC Formula
    - ASUS Rampage V Extreme
    - Gigabyte GA-X99-SOC Champion

    I really like the ASRock OC Formula, but the one thing i'm getting hung up on, is that the other two boards i'm considering both are taking advantage of additional pins included on the Intel LGA2011-3 socket:

    ASUS: "Designed to break performance barriers, ASUS OC Socket utilizes extra pins to connect a proprietary circuit to contacts found on Haswell-E's land grid array (LGA). Combined with our customized UEFI, this exclusive feature enables higher DDR4 memory frequencies, lower latencies and enhanced stability while overclocking, extending all the way to extreme overclocking conditions, such as Liquid Nitrogen (LN2). OC Socket is 100% compatible with new Haswell-E LGA 2011-v3 CPUs, ensuring the ideal combination of overclocking performance and compatibility.

    Gigabyte: "Another change that GIGABYTE has made is adding additional pins to the LGA2011 socket. The LGA2011-V3 socket actually contains 2083 instead of 2011. The GIGABYTE X99-SOC Champion can enable the extra voltage and pins via a dip switch on the board. This allows for some additional voltage options in the BIOS and bypasses the FIVR".


    Does ASRock have any plans to take advantage of these extra pins in their X99 motherboards (OC Formula in particular) that can effectively increase performance and enhance stability? Actually, are these extra pins ONLY useful for those using Liquid Nitrogen, or are there other benefits, as ASUS seems to be claiming above, with increased DDR4 memory frequencies?


    Thanks for any info you have on ASRocks direction on this. Also, being that i plan to use this machine for gaming, and expect to be overclocking, I'd be interested in any other reasons you see for me to go with the OC Formula over the others.

    thanks,

    Larry
    IMO, you are not reading the Asus and Gigabyte description of the sockets they use closely enough.

    Asus and Gigabyte are not using standard 2011-V3 sockets. These are custom designed and built sockets. They are not standard, Intel specification 2011-V3 sockets.

    "ASUS OC Socket utilizes extra pins...". "Another change that GIGABYTE has made is adding additional pins to the LGA2011 socket.".

    ASRock and other mother board manufactures are using standard socket 2011 V3 sockets, or standard from the aspect of the number of pins in the socket. So there is no way to use extra pins that do not exist on standard sockets. If they were using them, they would include that in the board's marketing information.

    Whether or not the extra pins and the "proprietary circuit" that Asus claims to use will provide the benefits they claim will exist is not something that is general knowledge in the PC enthusiast world. Perhaps some reviews of these boards can show if these sockets provide what they claim they can do.

    If I know Intel, I would not be surprised if they consider these special sockets non-standard and warranty voiding for processors used with these boards. That is pure speculation on my part at this point.

    Last year, virtually all mother board manufactures advertised a BIOS update for certain Intel chipset boards that allowed them to OC Intel processors. Those chipsets were not those that Intel officially allows over clocking to be done with. Several weeks later, all those manufactures were compelled by Intel to add a BIOS update that locked out this unofficial feature. This is just an example of how non-standard things that mother board manufactures come up with can later be ended by Intel. That may never happen in this case, but who knows?

  3. #3
    lwcdnet is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: ASRock X99 and their intention to use the extra pins on Haswell-E's LGA

    Ahh, I looked around a bit more and I see what you're saying. It isn't a situation where Intel is "hiding" information about extra pins on the "Standard" 2011-3 socket, rather, it's ASUS (and now others) who are now ADDING pins to THEIR implementations of the sockets, making them proprietary (non-standard).

    I do however see a "devil's advocate” position here: Motherboard manufacturers, like ASUS (and Gigabyte now), are most certainly still implementing everything that is “Standard” regarding the Intel LGA2011-3 socket, but they’re just ADDING features (in this case via additional pins) to the socket, to give their users more stable overclocking capabilities.

    Your point is still valid though. The fact that this is being done on the SAME socket (one that is supposed to be a “Standard LGA2011-3”), certainly brings up a debate over whether the “additions” will be supported by Intel. Not sure what the implications could be if a user is buying a motherboard from a manufacturer who provides a 3-year warranty? Maybe you are saying it could be the (Intel) CPU warranty that the user now needs to possibly worry about if the user uses a motherboard that uses one of these “proprietary” sockets???

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    Default Re: ASRock X99 and their intention to use the extra pins on Haswell-E's LGA

    Quote Originally Posted by lwcdnet View Post
    Ahh, I looked around a bit more and I see what you're saying. It isn't a situation where Intel is "hiding" information about extra pins on the "Standard" 2011-3 socket, rather, it's ASUS (and now others) who are now ADDING pins to THEIR implementations of the sockets, making them proprietary (non-standard).

    I do however see a "devil's advocate” position here: Motherboard manufacturers, like ASUS (and Gigabyte now), are most certainly still implementing everything that is “Standard” regarding the Intel LGA2011-3 socket, but they’re just ADDING features (in this case via additional pins) to the socket, to give their users more stable overclocking capabilities.

    Your point is still valid though. The fact that this is being done on the SAME socket (one that is supposed to be a “Standard LGA2011-3”), certainly brings up a debate over whether the “additions” will be supported by Intel. Not sure what the implications could be if a user is buying a motherboard from a manufacturer who provides a 3-year warranty? Maybe you are saying it could be the (Intel) CPU warranty that the user now needs to possibly worry about if the user uses a motherboard that uses one of these “proprietary” sockets???
    Yes, that is what I am saying, but that would be a worst case situation. I have no evidence to support that notion, just a thought based upon Intel's conservative and by the book way of doing things.

    I've never heard of adding pins to a CPU socket in all my time building PCs, which goes back to the Intel Pentium D days. For all I know this extra pins in the socket thing may become a new feature that Intel does not care about. Probably the only thing that matters is that it is a new feature and we will see how it works out this year. But since it is pretty much an unknown, anything could happen, both good or bad.

    How they even fit more pins on the most crowded socket Intel has ever used is mind boggling, and that they chose to do that with this socket in the first place!

  5. #5
    lwcdnet is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: ASRock X99 and their intention to use the extra pins on Haswell-E's LGA

    UPDATE: I found this regarding your speculation about Intel potentially voiding CPU warrantees (This is from the Chiploco.com site):
    “There were some reports that using ASUS OC Socket will void processor’s warranty but we’ve confirmed with Intel that using the OC Socket will not void processor’s warranty.
    ASUS OC Socket: LGA 2011-3 socket with 60 extra pins

    So, assuming that Chiploco’s statement above is true (negating any concerns about voiding CPU warranties), my question to ASRock remains valid (revised to account for your point that it is the manufacturers who are ADDING the pins):
    Does ASRock have any plans to ADD extra pins in the 2011-v3 sockets of their X99 motherboards (OC Formula in particular) to provide performance benefits similar to what ASUS (and now Gigabyte) claims?

    The thing that users might latch onto, especially over-clockers who realize that there are finite opportunities to find additional areas for performance increases, is that by ADDING these proprietary Socket features, Motherboard Manufacturers are giving their users REAL advantages that other manufacturers DON’T have! ASUS in particular also claims that using their “OC Socket” implementation brings around 22% advantage in memory performance and 7.5% advantage in CPU performance! (Wow / Holy Crap / Are you kidding me? I can gain that much of an advantage by using their implementation of the 2011-3 socket????). This is the kind of stuff that we’re looking for when we’re trying to decide what to use when we build a new system! Right?

    My guess is that you will see many high-end users taking advantage of this. Especially as you see in REAL LIFE that these other boards (ASUS Rampage V Extreme & Gigabyte SOC Champion) are winning Overclocking Contests consistently, as has been the case for these two other boards I am considering.

    I do however LOVE the specs on the ASRock X99 OC Formula board!

    • PREMIUM 12k Capacitors! Other high-end MB implementations are using 10k capacitors (still good, but not AS good). The 12k capacitors are a definite BONUS to long-term durability of this board. It is likely one of the reasons that ASRock is offering a 5-year warranty on this board, which is 2 YEARS MORE than ANY of the competing offers!
    • Did I mention that ASRock’s OC Formula Board has a 5-YEAR WARRANTY!!!!!
    • OC Formula board has waterproof coating! This will help with humidity situations. My RIG is in the basement of my home, basements often being higher-humidity, so this is good for me. (ASRock also has the “Dehumidifier” function!).
    • The OC Formula board is using 12-Phase Digital IR Power! Others are using 8-phase + 4 phase for memory (not sure of the difference here, but 12-Phase does SEEM better!).
    • ASRock is using an 8-layer PCB, and heavy-duty COPPER heat-sink VRM’s! (Claims in this area are very hard to discern differences between, but it seems apparent that if the OC Formula board supports 3400+MHz memory, there must be something being done right with the PCB build-out to dissipate heat).
    • Premium Audio (115dB SNR DAC!) (Make your own comparisons here. I happen to want premium Audio onboard).


    • DUAL M.2 slots, both PCIe x4 and SATA3! (Others have a single M.2 slot, so they only support ONE of the two TYPES). (I’d probably only use the higher-performing PCIe x4 slot, negating the benefit of having or needing the SATA3 M.2 slot altogether).


    • Higher Memory-clocking support (3400+ MHz) (Others are 3300 MHz or less on their specs) – Not a big concern for me.
    • ASRock has higher memory capacity (128 GB) (most others are only 64GB – (Not an issue for me).


    I find myself still hesitant to decide on the OC Formula board, vs. the ASUS Rampage V Extreme. If ASRock was ALSO implementing a proprietary 2011-3 socket that provided “TESTED” benefits like ASUS, my decision to use ASRock for this next purchase would be easy! I am leaning toward the ASUS Rampage V Extreme, but I haven’t yet made up my mind.

    Thoughts?

    Are there any ASRock plans to implement 2011-V3 socket enhancements like ASUS and Gigabyte? If so, when will we see this hit the X99 MB product line?

    Thanks for your feedback.

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    Default Re: ASRock X99 and their intention to use the extra pins on Haswell-E's LGA

    I have no idea if ASRock plans to use special 2011-V3 sockets like those used by Asus and Gigabyte.

    Since the X99 OC Formula board is already available for sale, without the special socket, a revision of the board would obviously need to be made to add the special socket. Or possibly an entirely new model X99 board.

    CPU sockets are usually manufactured by Foxconn and another manufacture whose name I forget. It's quite likely that they are making these special sockets, and unless they are done by special contract, they may be fairly readily available.

    Any information about the future use of these sockets by ASRock will be difficult to find. You could contact ASRock support directly, which would be your best bet on finding any information about this.

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    Default Re: ASRock X99 and their intention to use the extra pins on Haswell-E's LGA

    CPU sockets are usually manufactured by Foxconn and another manufacture whose name I forget.
    LOTES cpu sockets
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    E6300 (R0) @ 3.504GHz [8x438MHz] ~~ P35-DS3L [rev: 1.0] ~ Bios: F9 ~~ 4x2GB Kingston HyperX T1 PC2-8500, 876MHz @4-4-4-10
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    Default Re: ASRock X99 and their intention to use the extra pins on Haswell-E's LGA

    Quote Originally Posted by profJim View Post
    LOTES cpu sockets

    That's it, Lotes, as in Lot'es of extra pins... shall we count? 1, 2, 3...

    ASRock X99 and their intention to use the extra pins on Haswell-E's LGA-sockel_2011-3-jpg

    Thanks for that one Jim!

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    Default Re: ASRock X99 and their intention to use the extra pins on Haswell-E's LGA

    You're welcome, I just wish you weren't so pun-ney.

    I think that I see two groups with six unused pin locations in each group.

    Does this make me a pin-ney guy?
    Last edited by profJim; 02-08-2015 at 10:39 AM.

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    lwcdnet is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: ASRock X99 and their intention to use the extra pins on Haswell-E's LGA

    Thanks ProfJim and parsec. Hopefully Foxconn and/or LOTES are being engaged by ASRock to add similar 2011-3 socket enhancements like ASUS and Gigabyte. I’m not confident I can find somebody that can answer whether there are such plans, but if I do find out I’ll be sure to post the info back here.

    The whole reason for my initial post / question is that I am in the midst of choosing a Motherboard for my next build, which I decided would need to support the 5930k. I am thinking that because I am posting this in the ASRock forum, that you two might not be unbiased in answering, but I’ll ask anyway:

    Of the 3 boards I mentioned (ASRock X99 OC Formula, ASUS Rampage V Extreme, and Gigabyte SOC Champion), if you were seeking to build the best overclocking machine that you also expected to last you for the next 5 years, which of these 3 would you choose (removing money from consideration)? I am HOPING to pull the trigger on this new build in March. The PC Specs I listed for myself are pretty much what I intend to have in this machine, with the MB being the one variable I’ve not decided on… (oh, and I'm hoping a GTX 980ti comes out. I'd do a dual SLI configuration).

    Thanks again! - Larry

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