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Thread: Z97 Extreme6 Latest BIOS Update?




  1. #1
    Ken429 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Z97 Extreme6 Latest BIOS Update?

    I see that ASRock has been busy posting BIOS updates for the Z97 Extreme6 MB while I've been chasing W8 smoke on my Z77 Extreme4 system. I have been running 1.40 for awhile with no known issues. I like to try and stay current on BIOS versions - strange need for pain I guess. Any issues out there going from 1.40 to 1.70?

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    Default Re: Z97 Extreme6 Latest BIOS Update?

    How did I miss your thread?

    No issues for me using 1.70, but I went in sequence from 1.40 to 1.60 to 1.70. That is not required of course and should make no difference.

    Frankly, 1.60 contains significant updates IMO, although they won't be obvious in the use of the PC.

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    Ken429 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Z97 Extreme6 Latest BIOS Update?

    parsec,

    You mean this one?
    Z77 OC Formula Shutdown & Boot Issues

    I updated the BIOS from 1.4 to 1.7 and it was uneventful. However, it did plug a couple of values differently. The one that I question is CPU Input Voltage "Fixed Mode" versus "Auto" and then Fixed Voltage of "1.900V". The comments say 1.8-1.9V should be used if overclocking. Maybe since I have the CPU Ratio set to 45 the BIOS logic decided to change the settings? I put CPU Voltage back to Auto for the time being. Comments please.

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    Default Re: Z97 Extreme6 Latest BIOS Update?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken429 View Post
    parsec,

    You mean this one?
    Z77 OC Formula Shutdown & Boot Issues

    I updated the BIOS from 1.4 to 1.7 and it was uneventful. However, it did plug a couple of values differently. The one that I question is CPU Input Voltage "Fixed Mode" versus "Auto" and then Fixed Voltage of "1.900V". The comments say 1.8-1.9V should be used if overclocking. Maybe since I have the CPU Ratio set to 45 the BIOS logic decided to change the settings? I put CPU Voltage back to Auto for the time being. Comments please.
    No, I was talking about this thread, which I did not notice for about two days.

    Just noticed you're in Indiana, I live in a suburb west of Chicago. Small world.

    About your questions, are you using one of the built in OC profiles in the BIOS? I know those will definitely set the CPU Input Voltage higher.

    But I have also seen CPU Input Voltage automatically set higher when the core multipliers/ratios are increased beyond ~4.2GHz manually. That may be done if the CPU voltage mode is set to Auto or Adaptive, with a manually set VCore. Actually, all the possible combinations of these options may cause CPU Input Voltage to be increased, the actual settings or thresholds that cause that I don't know specifically.

    Intel recommends that the CPU Input Voltage be set to 0.4V - 0.6V above the VCore voltage. So with a VCore of 1.20V, CPU Input would be 1.6V - 1.8V. While CPU Input Voltage is not directly related to the core multipliers, we know that higher multipliers for an OC will cause more VCore to be needed.

    We also know that all Haswell processors of the same model are not identical in their need for VCore at a given speed. Some need more VCore for the same speed, others less. Automatic BIOS option settings cannot know what CPU Input voltage is needed by your processor, so a higher value is selected to be safe, to virtually guarantee it will work.

    IMO, many people that OC Haswell processors tend to use more CPU Input voltage than they probably need. I've tested using lower CPU Input voltages, with various OCs, and the PC was stable. But I can't say that my experience is the only one that is correct. But just like VCore, why not try to use the lowest CPU Input voltage possible.

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    Ken429 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Z97 Extreme6 Latest BIOS Update?

    No, I'm not using one of the OC profiles in the BIOS.

    But I am using Adaptive with a Vcore Adaptive Voltage of 1.20V and an Offset of -.003. The system was stable with these settings at 4.5GHz, at least under BIOS version 1.4 with the CPU Input Voltage set to Auto. BIOS 1.4 never changed the CPU Input Voltage no matter what else I changed in the BIOS.

    It looks like BIOS 1.7 does not "trust" the Auto setting and wants a value to supply the high end of the CPU Input Voltage when OC'ing or in my case 1.9V. I agree 1.6V-1.8V seems appropriate. I wonder what the Auto setting generates? Any way to tell?

    Looks like "Auto" is ~1.80V.
    Last edited by Ken429; 02-22-2015 at 01:35 AM.

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    Default Re: Z97 Extreme6 Latest BIOS Update?

    Yes, set CPU Input Voltage to Auto, boot into Windows, and run HWiNFO64:

    HWiNFO, HWiNFO32/64 - Download

    In the Sensor display, find the Nuvoton NCT6791D entry, the sensor chip used on this board. Among the entries below it, find Vccin. Vccin is the CPU Input Voltage.

    Z97 Extreme6 Latest BIOS Update?-hwinfo-vccin-png

    My CPU Input Voltage is set to 1.552V as we can see. Intel is using Vcc as the term for CPU Input voltage for Haswell processors, which is the same term used for VCore on earlier processors. IMO a bit confusing, but both are the voltage provided to the CPU, although certainly not the same thing. Haswell processors have the VCore voltage regulators in the CPU itself, in contrast to all previous Intel processors.

    We can also find two very interesting readings in the same set of readings, Vcore and CPU Cache.

    ASRock utilities like A-Tuning, etc, display the core VID of the processor, rather than the actual VCore voltage, which are not necessarily the same. I was skeptical at first about the accuracy of the Vcore reading, but I now believe it is accurate. While 0.00V seems an impossible VCore, I have all the CPU C States enabled, including C7, which will literally cause no voltage to be applied to the CPU, for a short time of course. Other board manufactures have VCore displays in their utilities, and those users have reported super low to zero VCore readings when using the C7 option.

    Also notice CPU Cache, the CPU Cache voltage. We can find that reading in the HW Monitor screen in the BIOS, but not in A-Tuning. That's great to see as well.

    The 1.70 BIOS must have changed the behavior of the CPU Input Voltage automatic setting "rules". You can always change CPU Input Voltage to whatever you want. Other BIOS settings get changed, when using the OC profiles for example. The CPU Fan speed setting is set to Full On. Annoying to me, but a safety feature for users over clocking and using the stock CPU cooler. Again, you can fix that setting manually, as I do.

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    Ken429 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Z97 Extreme6 Latest BIOS Update?

    Thanks for the information. I'm a fan of HWInfo64 but never looked beyond Fans Speeds, VCore and Core Temps!

    Now, since we're on a roll, can you shed some light on why the ASR built in OC settings change the "CPU Cache Voltage" from Auto to 1.20V (~1.20V is what Auto shows with or without OC'ing) and what's the effect of changing the "Long Duration" and "Short Duration" Power Limits from Auto to 1000? And... also, the "Primary Plane Current Limit" from Auto to 1000?
    Last edited by Ken429; 02-22-2015 at 01:37 AM.

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    Default Re: Z97 Extreme6 Latest BIOS Update?

    Good question, I've noticed that there can be subtle differences between an Auto voltage and manually setting an identical voltage (like 1.20) instead. The Offset value is related to that voltage value, and using Auto with an offset may result in a different final voltage than setting the voltage manually with the same offset value. I don't understand the differences completely, Auto may allow the voltage to change, while a manual setting does not. This also depends on the voltage mode used, Adaptive or Override.

    So you have three options with different settings, and Auto may adapt itself based on the multiplier used, so another variable. Discovering the overall behavior of the Auto setting would take a lot of experimentation.


    The Long Duration and Short Duration Power Limits Auto value is actually 1000, the same for three different processors I've used in this board. Same thing for Primary Plane Current Limit, the Auto value is 1000. So of course there should be no effect changing from Auto to 1000.

    How do I know what the Auto values are? Run the Intel Extreme Tuning Utility, and you will see.

    https://downloadcenter.intel.com/Det...ng&ProdId=3483

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    Ken429 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Z97 Extreme6 Latest BIOS Update?

    Ok. I got XTU and will learn to use it too. It appears like the only thing the built in ASR OC BIOS settings for the Z97 Extreme6 do is set a few values that are the same as those generated by Auto and then slam in way too much voltage for the selected OC! I keep looking for the silver bullet that will allow the 4790K to run at 4.8 and be ~70C under load. But then 4.5 or 4.6 ain't bad and I doubt if I could tell the difference in real world applications between 4.0 and 4.8. I haven't been able to find a good thread that goes into a reasonable approach to OC'ing the Z97 Extreme6/4790K configuration.

    A while back I found a great "how to" for the ASUS P8Z68-V Pro/2600K setup. I had it running very cool at 4.5GHz. A couple of months ago I swapped out the MB and replaced it with a Z77 Extreme4 MB. The system still runs at 4.5GHz with a tad more Vcore to get stable and ~5C hotter under load. That's a thread for another day!
    Last edited by Ken429; 02-22-2015 at 04:45 AM.

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    parsec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Z97 Extreme6 Latest BIOS Update?

    Again, the high VCore voltage for the Auto OC settings is necessary for the OC to work with the varying OC capability of random Haswell processors. Yes it is to much for some processors, but the compromise is made for the worst of the bunch. Otherwise more auto OC users will experience a crashing OC. Given the main goal of the auto OC settings working for almost everyone, a high auto VCore setting is the logical choice.

    For those of us that know better, we can fix it. One method for dialing in an OC is to set the VCore very high, and then reducing the VCore as much as possible a little at a time. So the auto OC VCore value and other values can be considered a working baseline for an OC, which are then optimally tweaked. If the tweaking process fails or becomes confused, the auto OC settings are a way to start over again from the same point. That can be useful.

    If your Swiftech can "only" manage ~70C for 4.8GHz (which is great, really great) what does that tell you about Haswell processors? They can't go any higher without insane cooling methods, and/or delidding.

    Actually, if you haven't thermal throttled your processor while testing, you are way beyond most Haswell users. I did with mine (4670K), 100C at 4.5 within a minute of AIDA64, with AVX2 instructions.

    You cannot compare your 4970K to your 2600K, I have a 2600K. How often have you seen 5GHz since Sandy Bridge? With solder between the die and IHS of the 2600K, the difference is huge. Intel "fixed" that situation after Sandy Bridge, no more solder in Mainstream processors.

    The i5 and i7 Sandy Bridge processors were the last gift from Intel. The only thing remotely close to that is the Pentium Anniversary G3258.

    About your comment about not telling the difference between 4.0 and 4.8, that's one reason why I just got a Xeon E3-1276 v3.

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