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Thread: ASR Z77 Extreme4 vs. ASUS P8Z68-V Pro Power System




  1. #1
    Ken429 is offline Senior Member
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    Default ASR Z77 Extreme4 vs. ASUS P8Z68-V Pro Power System

    I swapped out an ASUS P8Z68-V Pro MB for a ASRock Z77 Extreme4 MB. I did this for because I wanted a spare LGA 1155 socket MB, the Intel USB 3.0 on the Z77 Chip and the Extreme4 is about the only Z77 MB that is still available in the ATX format for the LGA 1155 socket.

    The only thing I changed in the system was the MB and Memory...and...the H60 cooler went from the thermal paste supplied from the factory to Gelid GC Extreme paste. I removed the 2X4 GB of Mushkin Ridgeback 1600-C8 memory and replaced it with 2X4 GB of Corsair 1600-C9 memory. Much to my surprise, the 2600K on the new MB requires less Vcore to get stable at 4.5GHz (1.304V max vs 1.336V max when running IBT 10-passes) and yet runs ~5C hotter under load than it did on the old ASUS P68 MB. Looking at the specs it appears the ASUS P68 has a better power system (16 vs 12) than the ASRock Z77 MB. Could this be the difference?

    It's not a big deal since this system is 100% stable and is the go to machine for daily chores. But...I'm curious and confused on why the difference in Vcore and temps? When I get a chance I will reseat the H60 but I don't think that is the "problem".
    Last edited by Ken429; 02-22-2015 at 07:06 PM.

  2. #2
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    parsec is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: ASR Z77 Extreme4 vs. ASUS P8Z68-V Pro Power System

    Obviously you are not familiar with the controversy about the VCore reading on Z77 Extreme4 boards (I have two.)

    Many users noticed the same thing you did regarding the VCore needed for their processor to reach an OC rather than other 1155 boards. That is, it took less VCore with the Z77 Extreme4 for the same OC than their other board.

    What was apparently discovered by many of those users is the Z77 Extreme4 board was reporting, via the VCore reading it supplied to monitoring programs, a VCore value that was less than the true, actual VCore value. At least that is the claim made about this board. I'm trying to be neutral in describing this, since I have never tested my own Z77 Extreme4 boards to verify what other users claim is the case. I'm not saying this is true or false, just describing this to you.

    A few users of this board tried measuring the VCore with a volt meter connected across the appropriate pins on the bottom of the board. Those pins are not labeled for that purpose, so there was some controversy about whether or not they were the correct ones to use to measure VCore. In the end the pins used were considered correct, and the VCore value measured across those pins was consistently more than the VCore reading supplied by the board.

    The VCore reading across the pins on the board was in the 0.0X Volts range as I recall, although the range of X was ~1 - 5, again as I recall, I might be off a bit. I don't think it was as high as 0.1V more, but I did not check that as I wrote this.

    ASRock never (AFAIK) said the VCore reading supplied by this board was wrong. Users of these boards involved with this situation concluded that the VCore reading is wrong, or at least the majority of them believe (know) that.

    A major part of the proof of this was, when those users measured the VCore on the appropriate pins on their other 1155 boards, the result matched the VCore reading supplied by the board. That was the case with multiple 1155 boards made by other manufactures, or at least what those users posted in the forum threads on this topic. Again, just trying to be a neutral reporter of this story.

    My only commentary on this is measuring voltages in a mother board, even from special measuring points supplied on some boards, is IMO not as simple as we would like to think it is. The method and requirements that Intel describes for measuring VCore on a board cannot be met by 99% of even PC enthusiasts.

    OTOH, the results found measuring the VCore on the other mother boards seemed quite consistent and accurate, with the Z77 Extreme4 being the exception compared to the other boards. That is based on what those users reported.

    I'll leave you to search the Internet about this topic, "Z77 Extreme4 VCore" should be enough to produce plenty to read.

  3. #3
    Ken429 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: ASR Z77 Extreme4 vs. ASUS P8Z68-V Pro Power System

    I sure have a knack for stumbling into controversial situations! Still don't understand the ~5C temperature difference at stable settings on both MB's!

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    Default Re: ASR Z77 Extreme4 vs. ASUS P8Z68-V Pro Power System

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken429 View Post
    I sure have a knack for stumbling into controversial situations! Still don't understand the ~5C temperature difference at stable settings on both MB's!

    I just bought the same board and experiencing the same temp difference.

    only difference is I have 3770k clocked at 4.3 with a noctua d15 cooler.


    I used to have a gigabyte z77 gigabyte board. but both bios got corrupted.

    any way on the gigabyte board. my cpu temps was around 30-40c on idle when running for hours.


    on this asrock board. it around 35-40c.


    so far I been using the voltage offset to lower the voltage down some and it little.

    another thing.

    if I enable power saver mode in the bios options. the system wont past prime95. as it is giving a -0.100 offset and seems too low

  5. #5
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    parsec is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: ASR Z77 Extreme4 vs. ASUS P8Z68-V Pro Power System

    The temperature difference could be caused by many things. Are you using the same program/tool to monitor temperatures on both boards?

    I have a story about my Asus P67 SaberTooth board that might be related to your situation. It worked well with my i7-2600K, and I used the Asus utility that let me view 10 temperature readings all over the board. AI Suite II is what that software was called. I also used HWiNFO64.

    I was using a Corsair H60 with my 2600K, and used a 4.5GHz OC, plus had SpeedStep and C States enabled. Idle temps were great, at or just above room temperature.

    Then after a UEFI/BIOS update, I noticed my CPU idle temperatures had dropped by 5C - 10C, with the same BIOS option settings. At idle I was getting CPU temperatures below room temperature, with core temperatures dipping at times below 60F! HWiNFO64 was showing two different CPU temperatures, one that matched the Asus utility temperature, another that did not, and seemed more realistic, what I normally would see.

    For a test I flashed the UEFI/BIOS back to the previous version. Immediately my CPU temperatures were back to "normal". No more below ambient idle temperatures. Flashed to the new UEFI/BIOS version again, and the CPU and core temps dropped into the basement again, just as they had before.

    I sent Asus a message about this, and received a reply about getting the message. Never heard from them again.

    I was active in the Asus forum for my board, and remembered a thread about users complaining about higher CPU temperatures while in the BIOS. That board also had one of the first UEFI type BIOS/firmware. I knew that the CPU power saving features are not yet active when using the UEFI UI, and I believe the UEFI UI is more of a load on a CPU than the standard BIOS UI, so the slightly higher CPU temperature while using the UEFI UI is normal and nothing to worry about. I still see a slightly higher CPU temperature reported while using the UEFI UI on any of the five boards I have had since then.

    So IMO Asus tweaked the CPU temperature reading to satisfy the users that complained. I could run HWiNFO and see two different CPU temperatures, the one I considered normal and correct, and the other that matched the reading in the UEFI and AI Suite II. My point of course is that the CPU temperature difference you see might be the result of a similar adjustment of the CPU temperature on your Asus board.

    A bold statement, I know, but I will never forget the differences in idle CPU temperatures I got between the two BIOS/UEFI versions, and how I could switch that on and off by changing between the two versions of the UEFI. I have never seen that happen with any other board I've used, before or after that incident. Experiencing that was one of the reasons I decided to try an ASRock board.

    Now dskiller has reported a similar temperature difference between a Gigabyte board and this ASRock board. There are many possible reasons for this difference, such as different sensor chips used by the boards, or the layout of components such as the CPU VRMs around the CPU socket.

    Speaking of VRMs, you mentioned the 16 phase on the Asus board versus the 12 phase on the ASRock board. While more phases does not automatically mean "better", which to most users means more power, the use of more phases can affect the CPU VRM system efficiency in a positive way. If I understand how this works correctly, at a lower power usage level by the CPU, fewer phases of the CPU VRM system are being used. So having more phases or "steps" of power production levels can be more efficient in power usage.

    Does that affect CPU temperature? You wouldn't think so, since the CPU VRM system is not forcing more power into the CPU simply because more phases are active.

    Plus, there are more settings in a UEFI/BIOS than those we are able to set ourselves. So we never know if we have identical settings between different UEFI/BIOS implementations.

  6. #6
    Ken429 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: ASR Z77 Extreme4 vs. ASUS P8Z68-V Pro Power System

    Now that you mentioned it, I went back and looked a some posts I made on the ASUS forum in 2012 complaining about the ~5C temperature variance between their utility and CoreTemp. I also had issues where the temp reporting changed on different BIOS versions.

    I'm ready to conclude that about the only valid thing I can do when playing with OC'ing is to look at the relative change and stay away from tring to make any rational conclusion involving different MB's and/or software.

    For example:
    With the P8Z68-V Pro MB/2600K at 4.5GHz the Max Voltage for a moment in time was 1.336V and the Max Core Temps were 59,64,65,61.
    With the Z77 Extreme4/2600K at 4.5GHz @ LLC 4 the Max Voltage for a moment in time was 1.304V and the Max Core Temps were 71,72,67,72.
    With the Z77 Extreme4/2600K at 4.5GHz @ LLC 5 the Max Voltage for a moment in time was 1.272V and the Max Core Temps were 64,70,68,66.

    Of course to further confuse the matter, the software stuff I was using to measure Voltage and Core Temps on the P8Z68-V Pro/2600K system was different that the stuff I am using today and probably the ambient temps were different.

    Bottom line, the Z77 Extreme4/2600K is running at 4.5GHz is very stable without any known issues and is used every day all day long. Hopefully, it will stay that was for a few years.

    AS AN ASIDE - WHAT HAS GONE WRONG WITH THIS SITE (AGAIN). INTERNET EXPLORER HAS BOMBED OUT ON ME SEVERAL TIMES IN THE LAST WEEK AND EVEN WHEN IT'S WORKING THE SITE MAKES IT ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO TYPE ANY EXTENDED POST. I HAVE RESORTED TO USING NOTEPAD AND THEN CUT AND PASTE TO GET IN AND OUT QUICKLY!

  7. #7
    parsec's Avatar
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    Default Re: ASR Z77 Extreme4 vs. ASUS P8Z68-V Pro Power System

    Interesting info about your Asus Z68 board, those chipsets were released shortly after the P67 chipset. It seems Asus was up to the same trick with the Z68 boards.

    It's curious about what things the manufactures react to, and what they ignore.

    You nailed it about all the differences that can and do occur, there are so many the concept of the "same system except this one part" just doesn't exist.

    Or to truly create the identical set of conditions with only one change is difficult and takes a lot of work. That is, if it's even possible.

    The voltages and temperatures for your OC on the two boards must have made you crazy, I get that. Lower voltage for higher temps with the ASRock board, makes no sense if we believe the temperature and voltage readings. We always take the various readings as correct on faith alone, since verifying them is not simple if even possible. I've never had problems with my two Z77 Extreme4 boards, one with the 2600K, the other with an i5-3570K.

    An FYI for you about the Z77 Extreme4 LLC setting in the UEFI, in case you don't know this. The highest LLC setting is actually 1, the lowest is 5. Some ASRock boards with different 7 series chipsets had those settings reversed in their UEFIs, which was fixed at some point. Frankly, I hope I'm remembering this right, I might be wrong but I don't think so. That is at least worth checking for yourself.

    About this website, I use Firefox and things have been fine for me lately. I can say that for people using Windows 8.1, like we do, that IMO it's the Adobe Flash Player that is causing the problems that I occasionally have had. Firefox even blocked a version of Adobe Flash Player recently from running. I can't recall the message they displayed, something about it being obsolete or having issues. I had to do a manual update of Adobe Flash Player, which seems to be working now.

    Wait a second, the recent problem was on a Windows 10 TP installation, my Win 8.1 installation with the same or older version of Adobe Flash Player is working fine. Win 10 TP works well in general, with a few bugs here and there. Yet another example of how easy it is to be confused about what we are doing. I have had issues with Adobe Flash Player with Win 8.1 in the past too, more so than with Win 10 TP.

    Which is why whenever something seems to go wrong, I don't jump immediately and declare that whatever is not working right.

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