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Thread: Z97X Killer/G3258?




  1. #11
    parsec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Z97X Killer/G3258?

    I see a max VID of 1.195V, and a Vcore of 1.216V, which in general is typical when using Adaptive voltage. The VCore is a bit higher than the VID.

    The actual VID and VCore are unique to each processor, so I'm not saying your specific voltages are typical.

    Of course we don't know what the minimum voltage your G3258 at stock speed can run at and be stable. That's why I reduce the voltage from the amount that the Auto setting provides, at stock speed, to determine what the OC potential of the processor is. The lower the voltage at stock speed, the more likely it will have higher OC headroom.

    IMO, everybody on the Internet is not getting 4.5GHz, even with outrageous voltages. Given what I've seen, 4.0GHz is a fairly common limit for many G3258s. One user that initially posted in this forum and then went to OCN, could not get beyond 4.0GHz using over 1.4V.

    Your CPU Input voltage (Vccin) is plenty high at 1.936V, your CPU cache is at 3.2GHz, which is fine and not a factor in limiting the OC. Your core/CPU temperatures are not a problem.

    You simply may be at the limit of your G3258's OC capability. The "silicon lottery" affect, meaning all processors of the same model do not have the same OC capability, and what we each get is simply by chance, is a reality. I experienced that with the two G3258s I have, one cannot OC beyond 4.0GHz without very high VCore, the other one can do 4.0GHz with lower VCore. I'm still learning how high the second one can go.

    Here's my IBT results at 4GHz. Note that I'm using a higher Stress Level, more memory, which causes each run to be longer:

    Z97X Killer/G3258?-ibt-g3258-4ghz-t1-jpg

    I don't get a VCore reading on this board (Z87 Extreme6) from HWiNFO.

    I remove some HWiNFO readings, since some are from unused sensors, or things I don't care about or not applicable. I don't see any of the Power readings, or the VRM output readings, the latter being a new addition to HWiNFO.

    I'll see if I can do 4.5GHz...

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Z97X Killer/G3258?

    Lucky me...

    Z97X Killer/G3258?-ibt-g3258-4-5ghz-t1-jpg

    Obviously booted and ran IBT at 4.5GHz. Note my VID is 1.282V, which means the VCore is at least 1.3V. But not much more than 1.31V, if at all, IMO.

    One thing I want to point out is the CPU Input voltage I use. A mere 1.680V. That's the setting in the UEFI and shown in HWiNFO. NOT that a lower CPU Input voltage means a better OC, just that it does not need to be super high, at least in my case.

    I can post screen shots of my UEFI settings in OC tweaker, but I highly doubt there is any magic setting that I use.

    This G3258 is just a good lottery winner.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Z97X Killer/G3258?

    Better do this too.

    Z97X Killer/G3258?-cpu-g3258-4-5ghz-validated-url-edit-jpg

  4. #14
    Ken429 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Z97X Killer/G3258?

    If I did not have to drive thru 50 miles of hell I would go up and get a second G3258 and hope for a winner! But I guess the difference between 40 and 45 is not a major issue for a low power consumer Home Server. I'm trying to rationalize my bad "luck" in the lottery.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Z97X Killer/G3258?

    Yeah, sorry, I'm not trying to show off here. It is all pure luck that I have a good one.

    Let's see, are you driving to the downtown Chicago Microcenter? That would be 50 miles of horror, I get that! Both of my G3258s are from the Westmont, Illinois store. I've never been to the downtown Chicago store. Plus it's torture that they only charge $50 for them!

    What I'm doing in the UEFI is using Adaptive for the VCore voltage mode. This G3258 shows the VCore in H/W Monitor as 1.058V with all Auto settings for Voltage Mode, etc. So when I OC to 4.0GHz, I put 1.060V as the CPU Voltage, the option just below CPU Voltage Mode. I assume that as the base voltage programmed into the CPU, really the VID programmed by Intel into this CPU. I know that this CPU will run at stock speed below 1.058V/1.060V, but still use that as base voltage.

    Then I put a value in the CPU Voltage Offset option. I set that to (+)0.100V. With Adaptive Voltage, I end up with a bit over 1.18V as the core VIDs shown by HWiNFO, at 4.0GHz.

    So you could try your 1.11V as the CPU Voltage, and try 0.100V as the CPU Voltage Offset. If their is any magic in this, it would be the CPU likes its programmed VID being used, and providing a positive offset voltage also agrees with it.

    For the 4.5GHz OC, all I did was change the CPU Voltage Offset to 0.200V, and increases the CPU Input Voltage to keep it at least 0.4V above the VCore/VID. That's all I did, nothing else.

  6. #16
    Ken429 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Z97X Killer/G3258?

    I tried Chicago Micro Center one time and decided the Westmont was a far better alternative. It was but still a challenge. I'm convinced my G3258 just won't hunt over 4GHz at any reasonable voltage. I finally plugged Override CPU Voltage @ 1.30V and it would run @ 4.2GHz - Attached Screen Dump. However, it would not run @ 4.3GHz @ 1.31V. I wonder if the Z97 Extreme6 versus the Z97X Killer MB has something to do with my problem? The BIOS in the Killer MB keeps changing things like LLC and CPU Input Voltage. On the Killer MB LLC is either Enable or Disabled versus the Level 1-5 on the Extreme6 MB. Of course, crashing the system makes strange things happen - I was lucky with the Extreme6/4790K - it just wanted to run at 4.6GHz and I was happy. But...4.4 or 4.0-4.6Ghz is a small jump ~14% compared to 3.2 to 4.0GHz or ~25%. I suppose I can play the the 4.0GHz settings and reduce the Vcore a little bit but Adaptive Mode with a voltage of 1.120V and an override of +0.100V is pretty close to what you suggested...I think.
    Attached Images Attached Images Z97X Killer/G3258?-oc_42_1-jpg 

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Z97X Killer/G3258?

    I can't say with absolute certainty that the Z97X Killer board's UEFI options and settings are limiting your G3258's OC ability, but I really doubt it.

    The LLC on Haswell boards controls the CPU Input voltage only, not the VCore, which is controlled by the internal voltage regulators of Haswell processors. I can see your CPU input voltage is not low, at 1.936V it is more than I use.

    Keep an eye on your VCore in HWiNFO, I see it goes up to 1.328V.

    I've noticed on my Z97 Extreme6 board that once any automatic UEFI option settings are applied, the only way to clear them out completely is to click the "Load UEFI Defaults" option in the Exit screen. After that I start over setting the options as I want them to be.

    My "bad" G3258 is not being used now, and my good one is basically freaking me out about how well it works.

    OTOH, at 4.5GHz, I'm getting 32.6 GFLOPs, compared to 29.1 at 4.0GHz, about a 10% increase. You're at about 31.1 at 4.0GHz, so I would not worry about getting to 4.5GHz, that is just a number compared to the actual GFLOPs performance.

  8. #18
    Ken429 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Z97X Killer/G3258?

    Small correction:
    ~29.6 GFlops @ 4.0GHz - Vcore Max @ 1.256V
    ~31.0 GFlops @4.2GHz - Vcore Max @ 1.328V!!
    I'm sure I could tweak both of these Vcores but not by much. It want to run @ 4.0GHz!

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Z97X Killer/G3258?

    Ok, those GFLOPs numbers are identical to mine now, I was wondering why yours earlier numbers were higher...

    Well, 4.0GHz at 1.256V max is not bad. I know you wish you could do better with the voltage, but the processor is the limiting factor. A G3258 does not use much power, so the board's voltage regulators are not stressed at all. With a decent cooler they run cool, even at 4.5GHz, mine hits 60C in IBT. So temperature is not a problem.

    An OC of 4.5GHz on a G3258 is a 40% OC, and 4.0GHz is is 25% OC. Going by the non-Turbo base clock as we must with a G3258, consider an i7-4790K's base clock of 4.0GHz. A 25% OC would be 5GHz. How many 4790K owners get to 5GHz?

    My good G3258's voltage difference between 4.0GHz and 4.5GHz is a bit under 0.20V (I was able to reduce the voltage at 4.5GHz a tiny bit from the screenshots above.) So yours would probably be near 1.4V for 4.5GHz, which is not worth it IMO for the extra 1GFLOP in IBT. I can pass IBT, 4.0GHz @ 1.08V, which is great.

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