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Thread: Need help selecting a 8-bit WS LCD




  1. #1
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    Default Need help selecting a 8-bit WS LCD

    I'm sad to say it, my 21" sony trinitron is dying :( sometimes when I switch tabs or just switch windows in windows, due to the color contract of some windows the image stretches in all directions and shinks for about 10 seconds then stabilizes.

    So I'm in the market for a new monitor. I'm looking for an 8-bit panel, I have used TN panels in the past, and I can notice a difference between the 6-bit and 8bit panels.

    I just picked up a ViewSonic VX2435wm through a bestbuy labour day sale, colors are great (once set up) but it's not without it's flaws, which is why I'm trying to see if there are any alternatives I should look at.

    Now my machine isn't a supergaming machine, I only really play games like TFC (at 1920x1200), but there is quite a bit of considerable ghosting, I mean VERY noticeable, down to the point where it bugs the hell out of me.

    The BIGGEST complaint I have with the viewsonic is through the DVI port on my 9700 pro, if I turn off the monitor, leave the pc on, and turn the monitor back on, it says no signal, and I'll need to reboot (but the computer still functions, because I can start foobar using bluetooth and select songs) it doesn't do this using VGA, but I'd like to use DVI (it seemed easier on the eyes, and was A LOT sharper)

    I don't know anything about LCD panels, so I'm here asking for advice :)

    I've been looking at the LG L246WP (I think it uses the same panel as the viewsonic, and needs to have sharper text) and the BenQ FP241VW ($$$$$), they have all the inputs I want (the BenQ is quite a bit more expensive), but I'm unsure if I need to use those inputs, and I'm still debating if 24" is too big (if anyone has any way to determine appropriate viewing distances let me know) I haven't listed the dell 2407 because I perfer to buy locally for eas of exchange, as I know people who after 2-3 years have had LCDs that fade considerably, so getting extended warranty is something I'd be getting.

    So here are my requirements:
    1) at least 20" widescreen
    2) 8-bit panel
    3) Less Ghosting (I don't think there is an LCD that won't have ghosting)

    IF possible:
    Something that has a higher refresh rate than 60hz, I know I have to get used to it, but having a higher refresh rate would be nice :)
    Inputs for me to plug in my wii and future xbox 360

    Thanks
    Last edited by Daemos; 09-02-2007 at 01:36 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Need help selecting a 8-bit WS LCD

    I fixed the DVI problem...it was some option in the display options
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Need help selecting a 8-bit WS LCD

    If you're having ghosting issues, there is something wrong. That has not been an issue for any LCD for years. Sounds like a delay problem if anything, and that is common in cheap high res displays.
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Need help selecting a 8-bit WS LCD

    Quote Originally Posted by casecutter View Post
    If you're having ghosting issues, there is something wrong. That has not been an issue for any LCD for years. Sounds like a delay problem if anything, and that is common in cheap high res displays.
    I can notice faint ghosting on the faster TN panels just FYI. But I cannot stand the color of TN panels, which is why I chose to avoid them.

    I've stuck with CRT for such a long time :( I think my eyes are just used to smoothness.
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Need help selecting a 8-bit WS LCD

    If you are seeing ghosting, you are either using the world's cheapest LCD's, or what you think is ghosting is actually something else. Ghosting has not been an issue for years, and I stand by that. All the major LCD reviewers will back up my claim. The only real issue with LCD's and picture quality is that the larger cheap 22"+ models seem to have issues with input lag which causes the display to be jerky. I am using a TN panel now and I had one of the best TFT panels before it. I notice a difference between the 2, but the only real difference is what you use them for. If you are hardcore into video editing/photography, then TFT is the only way. The rest of the world is great for TN. Besides that, the TN panel is far superior to ANY CRT. That is also an undisputed fact told by all the major reviewers.

    As for your claims of color fading, current tech LCD's will not do that. In fact, I have a hard time believing older ones do. The backlights may fade a bit causing the screens to not be as bright and that could be misconstrued to be fading.

    Don't get a TN panel if you are going to be much too picky. Dell makes some of the best if not the best TFT's so you are severely limiting your choices there. I'd not recommend any other 24" as most of the others have input lag issues. Even the 2407 (which I had) had some minor lag issues. The new 2407-HC has the best color reproduction available to 24" LCD's so it is worth the price premium. Otherwise, you will need to find a 20.1" TFT widescreen, and the only model I can think of is the Dell as well which is pricey to say the least. Time to drop your beer budget if you really want champagne.
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Need help selecting a 8-bit WS LCD

    I see motion blur, aka ghosting, my brother and I can see it, some of my friends think I'm nuts and think it looks as clear as it did on my trinitron, or any of the other CRTs I have in the house *shrugs*

    I can see it in movies as well. Ghosting will always be an issue in LCDs because of how the technology works. It just depends on how sensitive the eyes are on the person using the LCD. It's the same as speakers and audio, mp3 bitrates etc. Some people are perfectly happy with 128kbps mp3s, where I don't listen to it.

    I ordered the BenQ 24" I'll be comparing the viewsonic to that tomorrow, and spend the next week or so testing both, return the one I don't like. while at the same time get the Dell in, and then choose which one I want to keep :p
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Need help selecting a 8-bit WS LCD

    I cannot agree with you. Ghosting is NOT an issue with modern LCD's and has not been an issue for years. As I said, only cheap high resolution displays suffer from input lag, plain and simple. It is a well documented fact. Your eye's are not detecting ghosting. Ghsoting is when the image doesn't update as fast as the framerates change. Input lag is when the screen stutters and cannot keep up with the framerates. You cannot convince me you have the world's most sensitive eye's when it is a proven fact that ghosting does not exist anymore. I hope you find a LCD you like, but all 24" and higher LCD's suffer from input lag to some degree.
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Need help selecting a 8-bit WS LCD

    Quote Originally Posted by casecutter View Post
    I cannot agree with you. Ghosting is NOT an issue with modern LCD's and has not been an issue for years. As I said, only cheap high resolution displays suffer from input lag, plain and simple. It is a well documented fact. Your eye's are not detecting ghosting. Ghsoting is when the image doesn't update as fast as the framerates change. Input lag is when the screen stutters and cannot keep up with the framerates. You cannot convince me you have the world's most sensitive eye's when it is a proven fact that ghosting does not exist anymore. I hope you find a LCD you like, but all 24" and higher LCD's suffer from input lag to some degree.
    It's ghosting. I bought the BenQ today, it's ghosting. I returned the viewsonic. LCD panels will always have some sort of ghosting (weather it's detectable is debatable) because of how they work.

    Even the new Dell 2407WFP-HC has ghosting problems.
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...12925274&hl=en

    That one isn't even that bad, the viewsonic IMO was worse, as it happened on all colors.

    Here's a still capture of ghosting
    http://img1.digitalversus.com/produi...88_178_109.jpg
    I call it motion blur because that's what it looks like if the panel can't refresh pixels fast enough.

    Today I bought 3 monitors (so I had 4 total in my house) and returned 3. The LG with 8ms, some Samsung TN panel, which I couldn't stand and the BenQ which I am keeping to see if I can find space to keep it as the base on the VW version is HUGE.

    The LG had the same issue as the viewsonic (and the LG has been documented to have LESS input lag than the BenQ) but visually it ghosts. The BenQ has just a bit, just a TINY bit, using the perfect motion helps, but it adds other problems which I don't like, the ghosting on the BenQ is almost non detectable by me if I don't pay attention for it. On the LG and Viewsonic it just was obvious without trying.

    Ghosting exists. It's if your eyes can see it or not that is the question.
    Last edited by Daemos; 09-05-2007 at 12:30 PM.
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Need help selecting a 8-bit WS LCD

    I came from a Sony Trinitron with zero ghosting. Try the monitor in my sig. Be very sure to get the "BF" version with 1.14 firmware. No ghosting.
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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Need help selecting a 8-bit WS LCD

    Quote Originally Posted by casecutter View Post
    I cannot agree with you. Ghosting is NOT an issue with modern LCD's and has not been an issue for years.
    Most people won't notice it but there are a small number of people out there that do as these small number of people have more sensitive eyes.

    Why do you think that most people could happily run 60Hz on a CRT but others needed to crank that up to 70-80Hz (or more)?

    Don't judge others by your own personal physical standard as there are many that don't fit it and I'm also one of those that can see ghosting quite clearly on most all LCD's (21" CRT's @ 85Hz, anything less gives me a bad headache but I'll be very happy when LCD's get their refesh rate up to at least 75Hz if not 80, 21" CRT's @ 120Hz are sweet plus you still can't beat them with any LCD).

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