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Thread: GA-P35-DS3L Memory/Board Bluescreens




  1. #1
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    Default GA-P35-DS3L Memory/Board Bluescreens

    I have a problem similar to this:

    http://forums.tweaktown.com/f69/pote...roblems-26366/

    but not exactly.

    I have revision 2 of the board. And this RAM:

    Newegg.com - Crucial Ballistix 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Desktop Memory

    4-4-4-12 timing in duel channel.

    Memtest86+ (2.01) reports it is being run at 5-5-5-18. I'd like to say at this point the BIOS doesn't seem to have the timing user accessible as per the other thread (found see edit). The voltage is 1.86 or so. All the BIOS settings are default. I have a E2200 processor, and an oldish GeForce 6200 turbocache card.

    The system ran fine for over 1 month of use. Enough time for me to be happy fill my rebate on the RAM and so on. Then it started to give a lot of bluescreens with a verity of error codes. Page file, IRQ less than or equal, many different driver references.

    I most noticed these error when the system would come out of suspend. However, it will and does crash even without having been under suspend.

    Upon crashing if you run memtest on rest (not a cold boot), you will get many errors within mins of starting. My record is 650 by 50% of Test 4, pass 0. They tend to be local to one or two areas in memory. So far the only place I have seen them is at 64ish, 2040ish and a few at 6.

    Now here is the tricky bit. If you cold boot and run memtest, it will run for hours without any errors. That is a power off wait for everything to discharge turn it back on. I had 100+ errors in a few mins, pushed the power off, turned it back on, ran a whole pass with no errors.

    It will only seemingly fail the memtest if it has had a bluescreen. The mean time to a problem off of a cold boot seem to be about 6 hours (roughly).





    Extra information:
    I am running Vista SP1, two HD seagate 320GB, DVD burner, sound, firewire cards.

    It seems like it could be the motherboard, but given the reproducibility of I wonder if they would just send it back saying it is fine.

    Edit:

    So control-f1 unlocks the timing menu.

    Here is how it was set before I messed with it (in grey):
    Robust Graphics Booster___________ [Auto]
    CPU Clock Ratio ____________ [11]
    CPU Host Clock Control_ [Enabled]
    CPU Host Frequency (MHz)__________ [200]
    PCI Express Frequency (Mhz)_______ [Auto]
    C.I.A. 2__________________________ [Disabled]
    Performance Enhance ______________ [Turbo]
    System Memory Multiplier (SPD)____ [Auto]
    Memory Freq _____________________ 800
    DRAM Timing Selectable_______ SPD __ [Auto]

    CAS Latency Time_____________ 5 ____ Auto
    Dram RAS# to CAS# Delay______ 5 ____ Auto
    Dram RAS# Precharge Delay_____5 ____Auto
    Precharge Delay (tRAS)________18 ____ Auto
    ACT to ACT Delay (tRRD)_______3 _____ Auto
    Rank Write to READ Delay______3 _____ Auto
    Write to Precharge Delay______6 _____ Auto
    Refresh to ACT Delay________52 ______ 0
    Read to Precharge Delay_______3 _____ Auto
    Static tRead Value_______________ 3 ___ Auto
    Static tRead Phase Adjust________ 0 ____ Auto

    What should they be probably? (other than the first few)

    Any suggestions or questions?
    Last edited by drwho9437; 05-16-2008 at 03:26 PM.

  2. #2
    Lsdmeasap's Avatar
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    Default Re: GA-P35-DS3L Memory/Board Bluescreens

    You need to update your BIOS, for a few reasons, one being there is likely fixes that will help you in newer BIOS's and two I can tell you have a old one because in the new ones you do not need to use control + F1. So first update that and see if it helps your issues because there has likely been many issues addressed since your older BIOS

    Here is the BIOS page for your board, rev 2.0 I would suggest F7 as it is the last non Beta
    GIGABYTE - Support - Motherboard - BIOS - GA-P35-DS3L (rev. 2.0)

    Use Qflash with a formatted floppy or formatted USB (Format yourself again for sure to FAT32) stick and put only the BIOS file on it it will end with a .FXX number, leave in and reboot and hit the END key to get into Qflash. Look thru each option shown to you, some USB ond or floppy's show up as hard disks. DO not shut the pc off during the flash or try to reboot to soon before it is done. AND DO NOT FLASH IN WINDOWS WITH @BIOS

    Second, crucial has compatibility issues, and is not as good as they used to be, often dies or causes errors very quickly and need RMA. So RMA them for a refund if you can and buy some Mushkins Or Gskills they are much more compatible and a better buy all around


    Performance Enhance Turbo is likely your main problem, this makes many changes on the fly while the system is in use. Some of which can be bad for your ram

    Here is what you want in the BIOS For NO OVERCLOCK (As for the Number ranges, start with the higher ones and move lower ONE AT A TIME While testing after each move)>>>>

    Robust Graphics Booster___________ [Auto]
    CPU Clock Ratio ____________ [11]
    CPU Host Clock Control_ [Enabled]
    CPU Host Frequency (MHz)__________ [200]
    PCI Express Frequency (Mhz)_______ [100]
    C.I.A. 2__________________________ [Disabled]
    System Memory Multiplier (SPD)____ [4.00] <<< 200 x 4 = 800Mhz
    DRAM Timing Selectable_______ SPD __ [Manual]
    Performance Enhance = [Standard]


    Make sure the ram is in dual channel (Meaning same color slots 1+3, or 2+4)
    CAS Latency Time________________ 4
    Dram RAS# to CAS# Delay_________4
    Dram RAS# Precharge Delay_______4
    Precharge Delay (tRAS)__________ 12
    ACT to ACT Delay (tRRD)_________ 3-4
    Rank Write to READ Delay________ 9-11 (Try 4 last or first if you like, may not work without causing errors)
    Write to Precharge Delay_________ 3-5
    Refresh to ACT Delay______________22-42 (likely 38 will work best, may not go lower)
    Read to Precharge Delay__________ 3-6
    Static tRead Value_______________ 7-10
    Static tRead Phase Adjust________ 1-31 <<<< Leave on Auto or Zero or 1-31

    System Voltage Control____ [Manual]
    DDR2 OverVoltage Control__ [+0.300V] = 2.1V Use this or less for your Crucial's before they die on you
    PCI-E OverVoltage Control_ [+0.1V] <<< For stability
    FSB OverVoltage Control___ [+0.1V] <<< For stability
    (G)MCH OverVoltage Control [+0.1V] <<< For stability
    CPU Voltage Control_______ [1.25] << Set to your CPU's known stable voltage or leave on auto if you wish

  3. #3
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    Default Re: GA-P35-DS3L Memory/Board Bluescreens

    Quote Originally Posted by Lsdmeasap View Post
    You need to update your BIOS, for a few reasons, one being there is likely fixes that will help you in newer BIOS's and two I can tell you have a old one because in the new ones you do not need to use control + F1. So first update that and see if it helps your issues because there has likely been many issues addressed since your older BIOS
    Thanks for the answer. FYI: I had BIOS F7 already. Late last night as I was posting this, I did in fact leave all the timing on auto and just turn off Turbo. It did survive overnight. So that is good.

    What little I read it is changes the memory timing on the fry in Turbo, or does it change more than that?

    Anyway. Here is to hope that that is all that is wrong. Though it seems odd it would work for a month and then not when I never changed that BIOS setting. (That dims my hope a bit)

  4. #4
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    Default Re: GA-P35-DS3L Memory/Board Bluescreens

    Ahh well sorry! Maybe that board only the newest Beta ones dont have the control + F1 needed.

    OR

    When you updated to F7 you did not fully do it properly. When you flash a new BIOS in you MUST choose LOAD OPTIMIZED SETTINGS, then save and apply and reboot and then make your changes again. That could likely be why you still have to use Control + F1. I would say if you want, do the flash again so you can be sure it is proper and not still using partial coding from the older BIOS's where you have to use Control + F1

    Yeah, that does cause issues TURBO. I'd suggest if you do not want to take the time to get all those subtimings at their best for you to at least make these changes >>>

    4-4-4-12 for the main timings

    And then in the subtimings set these few for sure >>>

    Refresh to ACT Delay______________38-42

    Static tRead Value_______________7-10 I would think at stock 800 you can just start with 7 and be fine

    And of course you should also set the voltages as I suggested, for sure 2.1 or less for DDR2 Overvoltage control, AUTO may be too much at times or not enough, and that will kill that ram for sure

  5. #5
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    Default Re: GA-P35-DS3L Memory/Board Bluescreens

    The board came out of the Box with F7. It seems to leave the RAM at 1.86 Volts. I wouldn't want it really to run higher than 1.9 V. Can you tell me what the two tRead and refresh to ACT delay timings actually do?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: GA-P35-DS3L Memory/Board Bluescreens

    Well spec for that ram is 2.2 which I do not suggest at all! But I do suggest 2.1 or at least 2.0 but likely 2.1 is better, using less can and will cause errors

    Refresh to act I cannot say really, but Static tRead Value is the Performance Level of the ram, and the static phase adjust subtracts from tRead at certain points so best to leave alone unless you are using a high tRead which is pointless as that will drastically slow down your ram

  7. #7
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    Default Re: GA-P35-DS3L Memory/Board Bluescreens

    Because it is rated to 2.2V doesn't mean it is suppose to run at those voltages. The JEDEC standard for DDR2 is 1.9 V Max recommended.

    I cannot think of any physical process where lowering the voltage would cause permanent harm to a device. It can and will lower stability, because lower voltage swing will reduce the noise margin. High voltages of course ruin devices because of field effects or thermal damage to either the crystal structure, or more often dopant diffusion, or interconnects. (I am an electrical engineer but that doesn't mean I don't need help debugging).

    Do you know definitively a cause that was repeatable where a certain type of hardware was ruined by too low a voltage? There are circuits were this could conceivably happen, but for the most part CMOS logic is designed the the blocks in mind that the operation is just proportional to the rail voltages. And everyone knows what your basic DRAM cell is like, certainly no low voltage damage there.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: GA-P35-DS3L Memory/Board Bluescreens

    Yes, but only crucial! HAHAHA Just google Crucial RMA or More Dead Crucial, and if you look thru the 1000's of threads you will find SEVERAL people getting a RMA batch and lower the voltages under spec and ending up with them dying as well. It is just a sad thing for crucial as they used to be the best, but now are the best for RMA IMO. Just my thoughts there

    If you are a Crucial FTW person then you will have to learn the hard way I suppose. See my post #28 here >>>
    http://forums.tweaktown.com/f69/p35-...tml#post251365

    I said use 2.1 because 2.2 is to high, we both agree there. And 2.1 I said because that is the lower end of your ram spec. Where it has been tested to run at, lower then that will highly increase the errors. You can run them where ever you want, but they will error at much under 2.0 I would guess for sure

    JEDEC standard is not what is used by all ram all the time, and yes your ram will boot at JEDEC standard of 1.8 as will most, but running 2x2gb of it stabley there just is not going to happen, that is why the company that made it binned those particular IC chips on your ram to run at 800Mhz at 2.1-2.2, they found less or more would cause errors. Some of the same IC chips out of that batch that failed at under 2.1 went into the cheaper value models of that company's ram, hence the name value ram. And the IC Chips of that same batch still that tested to be able to clock higher or faster and stand higher voltages are relabeled as 1066 Speed ram

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    Default Re: GA-P35-DS3L Memory/Board Bluescreens

    I have no brand loyalty that would be rather irrational. I should pry off the heat spreader and find the datasheet of the chips used on the DIMM. That would tell the whole story.

    I bet the low voltage are just random and not well correlated.

    RMA corsair turns up 298,000
    RMA Crucial: 219,000
    RMA OCZ: 311,000
    RMA transend: 225,000
    RMA kingston: 390,000

    I would say the numbers are just market share driven. One always must be careful about using anecdotal evidence. Objectively it looks like crucial RMAs are just about as talk about as any other company.

    Given my experience it looks like this BIOS revision certainly it doesn't handle this RAM correctly at default, so I'm sure you see tons and tons of replies on it. Given how prompt and helpful you are posting on many threads, it is easy to see how you are of the conclusion that Crucial sucks.

    So far no crashes. I intend to leave it on for a week, and see if anything happens.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: GA-P35-DS3L Memory/Board Bluescreens

    Well I just suggested to google, I help at a lot of forums, and i see MOST OFTEN crucial RMA or death issues, almost daily. So much so that FOR SURE in every computer place I frequent in the memory section on page one there is always at least 1-2 threads about Crucial Death/RMA on the first page


    And my actual thoughts about Crucial do not specifically stem from here, just a overall knowledge of several overclocking sites and always seeing those types of threads on page one of memory sections narrows it down pretty much.

    But either way, Good to see you are having some luck with those. I am sure you know, but keep in mind you may want to add a 40MM fan on your NB as it is likely to get hot with 4x1gb sticks in there

    I wish you luck, and if you do decide to go buy some ram sometime either way, I suggest Mushkins just so you know my overall brand of choice. G.Skill also works very well with GA boards although I have not used them I have helped many a user set them up. I do have Mushkin in all my PC's 4 of them, 2 of which have GA boards. I also suggest and replace many boards at work with Mushkins and rarely have issues other then people calling in or bringing them back because they could not find proper settings. But you know how that is, just something you have to start at a certain high point and trial and error you way down... something some people just do not have the patience to do.

    Good Luck

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