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Thread: EP35-DS3R Won't Hold 400 FSB




  1. #21
    Lsdmeasap's Avatar
    Lsdmeasap is offline GIGABYTE Guru
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    Default Re: EP35-DS3R Won't Hold 400 FSB

    Well then you likely just need more volts. 1.3 isnt much you can use more then that safely for sure. I have set several boots that are windows stable, but are not fully stable for 24 hours which is what I consider stable. What your board considers stable and will keep is all up to your board, sounds like you just need a bit more voltage. Why are you hesitant to give it? If it is because your CPU is getting hot, then you likely just need better cooling. Which you should get anyway if you want a stable overclock at lowest possible voltages.

    As for it running it before and not not at a certain voltage, your processor will degrade over time and has a "break in: period. Maybe you just had to go thru the break in period, some need more after this, some less. If you have at anytime given it a large amount of voltage then you could have degraded it as well

  2. #22
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    Default Re: EP35-DS3R Won't Hold 400 FSB

    Yeah, the reason I don't want to give it much more voltage is because I don't want to degrade it. It's definitely the CPU voltage that is causing the board not to cold boot. It just needs significantly more to boot than to run in Windows. This isn't a guess, I've tested it numerous times already. Is it a bug in the BIOS? It could very well be a defect in my board or some obscure hardware incompatiblity, etc. But I've read of other people having the same issue. Whatever it is, I don't need nearly as much CPU voltage to be stable in Windows as to boot.

    One more example: yesterday I ran it at 3.8GHz (400x9.5) after a reset. Today it didn't boot--it actually went through five restarts before it booted with default settings. So I decided to try the lower multi this time (with performance at standard). 420x8.5 booted. I then set performance to Turbo, it booted again. Same 1.32v CPU voltage as before.

    It looks like I need that voltage bump at ~3.5GHz to boot, and after a reset it can run at that same voltage at 3.8GHz, but will not cold boot next time. IMHO that's a pretty big FSB margin for this to be caused by the CPU and not the board or BIOS?

  3. #23
    GiggaByte is offline Member
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    Default Re: EP35-DS3R Won't Hold 400 FSB

    Quote Originally Posted by Toadeater View Post
    I am having the infamous "OC lost after cold boot" problem with my board. During resets it will hold, but if I power off it will disable CPU clock control and revert to stock speed. It only does this at an FSB of ~375 or higher, no matter what voltages or RAM timings I use.

    When I can get it to boot at 400x9.5, it is 100% stable in Windows. I can run Prime95, Orthos, and ATITool simultaneously while multitasking and I get zero errors, and low temps. I get no crashes in Crysis, CoD4, GRAW2, STALKER, and other intensive 3D games. If that isn't stable, what is?

    This is after it finally boots:

    CPU-Z Validator 2.1

    I have done everything including cleared the CMOS, removed all USB devices, flashed to the latest BIOS I could find (which wouldn't let me change vCore afterwards, so I flashed back), disabled/enabled CIE and EIST, disabled/enabled legacy USB support, keyboard, mouse, etc., etc. Nothing has made a difference. It just won't maintain the OC past 375FSB if I power off. What is the difference between powering off and resets to this board?

    If anyone has any ideas, let me know.

    E7200 Core 2 Duo - reaches 3.8GHz @ 1.296v
    EP35-DS3R - tried BIOS F2 and F3e
    2x1GB G.Skill F2-6400CL5D RAM
    MSI 8800 GT
    550W Rosewill PSU

    These are the settings I tried:

    Robust Graphics Booster___________ [tried all three]
    CPU Clock Ratio ____________ [8.5-9.5]
    CPU Host Frequency (MHz)__________ [266-400]
    PCI Express Frequency (Mhz)_______ [100-102]
    System Memory Multiplier (SPD)____ [2.00-2.50]
    DRAM Timing Selectable_______ SPD __ [Manual & Auto]
    Performance Enhance = [Standard]

    CAS Latency Time________________ 5
    Dram RAS# to CAS# Delay_________ 5
    Dram RAS# Precharge Delay_______5
    Precharge Delay (tRAS)__________ 13-15
    ACT to ACT Delay (tRRD)_________ 3-4
    Rank Write to READ Delay________ 3-11
    Write to Precharge Delay_________ 4-5
    Refresh to ACT Delay______________ 3
    Read to Precharge Delay__________ 4-5
    Static tRead Value_______________ 12
    Static tRead Phase Adjust________ Auto

    System Voltage Control____ [Manual and Auto]
    DDR2 OverVoltage Control__ [+0-0.2V]
    PCI-E OverVoltage Control_ [+0-0.1V]
    FSB OverVoltage Control___ [+0.0-0.2V]
    (G)MCH OverVoltage Control [+0-0.2V]
    CPU Voltage Control_______ [1.1-1.375V]

    After I saw your post I tried lowering FSB to 375 and long behold my P35-DS4 passed POST when cold and ran normally. I also noticed once again a P35 board having this cold boot problem with the E7200. I keep trying to tell GIGABYTE there is a problem with P35 boards and the E7200.. sigh... I can put my 65nm E4500 back in and I can go to ANY FSB I want, even unstable ones and it always cold boots fine..

  4. #24
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    Default Re: EP35-DS3R Won't Hold 400 FSB

    Quote Originally Posted by GiggaByte View Post
    After I saw your post I tried lowering FSB to 375 and long behold my P35-DS4 passed POST when cold and ran normally. I also noticed once again a P35 board having this cold boot problem with the E7200. I keep trying to tell GIGABYTE there is a problem with P35 boards and the E7200.. sigh... I can put my 65nm E4500 back in and I can go to ANY FSB I want, even unstable ones and it always cold boots fine..
    Thanks for the info. It could be? Come to think of it, my board has booted cold during a few tests yet was unstable in Windows. At the same time, it won't boot with some stable settings. That kind of rules out that this BIOS is detecting stability accurately, doesn't it?

    If you want, also try the 8.5 multiplier, because it might let you raise the FSB higher and get slightly better performance. Right now I have 420x8.5 booting consistently, while 400x9 refuses to boot with the same voltage and RAM timings. I'd assume it was the CPU's fault if it wasn't for the fact that it is stable in Windows at 400x9.5 at the same voltage. Just make sure if you OC your RAM to adjust the voltage and timings.

    I have already contacted Gigabyte as well, but they don't want to hear it. They said they don't guarantee overclocks and that was it. Hopefully their techs are aware of the problem.

    Here are my current bootable settings, in case this helps:

    Robust Graphics Booster___________ [auto]
    CPU Clock Ratio ____________ [8.5]
    CPU Host Frequency (MHz)__________ [420]
    PCI Express Frequency (Mhz)_______ [102]
    System Memory Multiplier (SPD)____ [2.00]
    DRAM Timing Selectable_______ SPD __ [Manual]
    Performance Enhance = [Extreme]

    CAS Latency Time________________ 5
    Dram RAS# to CAS# Delay_________ 5
    Dram RAS# Precharge Delay_______5
    Precharge Delay (tRAS)__________ 15
    ACT to ACT Delay (tRRD)_________ Auto
    Rank Write to READ Delay________ Auto
    Write to Precharge Delay_________ Auto
    Refresh to ACT Delay______________ 52
    Read to Precharge Delay__________ Auto
    Static tRead Value_______________ 8
    Static tRead Phase Adjust________ Auto

    System Voltage Control____ [Manual]
    DDR2 OverVoltage Control__ [+0.2V]
    PCI-E OverVoltage Control_ [Normal]
    FSB OverVoltage Control___ [+0.1V]
    (G)MCH OverVoltage Control [+0.1V]
    CPU Voltage Control_______ [1.368V]
    Last edited by Toadeater; 07-02-2008 at 06:37 AM.

  5. #25
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    Exclamation Re: EP35-DS3R Won't Hold 400 FSB

    TEMPORARY FIX FOR COLD BOOT POST FAILURES:

    Find your highest bootable FSB (mine was 365 FSB). Next, find your maximum stable FSB, RAM and voltage settings in Windows. Now reduce the FSB to at least 80 less than your maximum stable Windows FSB. Enable CIA in the BIOS to Full Thrust. Your computer will boot at the lower FSB, but when CPU usage increases in Windows, CIA will raise the FSB by up to 80, depending on load.

    Example:

    Bootable setting: 333x9.5, 1.375v (to compensate for CIA) = 3.1GHz
    After CIA OC in Windows: 413x9.5, 1.328v (vdroop) = 3.92GHz!!!!

    If your bootable FSB limit was 365 like mine, this means you can use CIA to overclock in Windows to 445 FSB. An added advantage is it keeps temps down when your CPU is idle, and it works with C1E enabled.

    This is certainly a great hack, unless your CPU has a low multiplier, but I am still not happy with Gigabyte's faulty BIOS. Dynamic overclocking by CIA proves this board is stable at higher FSBs, yet it still won't boot at those FSBs. I hope Gigabyte fixes this soon.

    http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=547533
    http://forums.overclockers.com.au/sh...d.php?t=668920
    http://forums.anandtech.com/messagev...VIEWTMP=Linear
    http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=546768
    http://www.xcpus.com/forums/intel/23...overclock.html
    http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum...fm/990450.html
    http://forums.pcper.com/showthread.php?t=446828
    http://forums.pcper.com/showthread.php?t=439190
    http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/24...ecycle-problem
    http://forums.ebuyer.com/showthread.php?p=261063
    http://www.overclock.net/intel-cpus/...elf-stock.html
    http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/sho...php?p=10405536
    http://forums.tweaktown.com/f19/ga-p...-advice-26996/
    http://www.houseofhelp.com/v2/showpo...51&postcount=4
    http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=178265
    http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1239860
    http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1193054
    Last edited by Toadeater; 07-07-2008 at 07:06 AM.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: EP35-DS3R Won't Hold 400 FSB

    I just installed the F3 final BIOS update, it seems to have fixed the cold boot issue at last. And all this time so many people thought their boards were broken. I knew it had to be the BIOS.

    Its cold booted 3 times now with 4-4-4-12 timings and tRD 7, which is awesome for a low cost motherboard and $40 budget RAM! Good work, Gigabyte!

    Oh, the DPC latency has improved as well, unless something like CPU-Z is used.

  7. #27
    Lsdmeasap's Avatar
    Lsdmeasap is offline GIGABYTE Guru
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  8. #28
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    Default Re: EP35-DS3R Won't Hold 400 FSB

    Quote Originally Posted by Lsdmeasap View Post
    Nice to see you are having some Better luck Toadeater!
    Luck had nothing to do with it, it was the new BIOS that did it. It's been a couple of days now and the board has booted every time, so I think it's safe to say it is fixed.

    The only other thing is that now Performance Level seems to actually do something. Before I could set it to Standard or Extreme and it didn't make a difference. Now if I set it to Extreme, it won't boot. So maybe with the previous BIOS some of the board timings were stuck at Extreme the whole time? Anyway, it works now. Thanks for your help.

  9. #29
    Lsdmeasap's Avatar
    Lsdmeasap is offline GIGABYTE Guru
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    Default Re: EP35-DS3R Won't Hold 400 FSB

    Well performance level always changed things, maybe you just never noticed. It mainly changes tRrd for Sure (Static tRead Value) and if you have subtimings manually set then for sure using the performance setting on anything other then standard may toss your timings all off balance

    Anywho... Glad you are up and running smoothly

  10. #30
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    Default Re: EP35-DS3R Won't Hold 400 FSB

    Quote Originally Posted by Lsdmeasap View Post
    Well performance level always changed things, maybe you just never noticed. It mainly changes tRrd for Sure (Static tRead Value) and if you have subtimings manually set then for sure using the performance setting on anything other then standard may toss your timings all off balance
    I've been watching the timings in Everest and Memset. With the F2 BIOS Extreme didn't change anything on my board that is monitored by those programs. With the F3 BIOS the DIMM Clock Fine Delay has different timings now. Standard has 12T, 11T; Turbo has 9T, 8T, and Extreme won't boot anymore. In BIOS F2, I always had 5T, 6T timings for my RAM, no matter what I set performance enhance to. Perhaps these timings are dependent on the SPD somehow?

    I realize it might set some other timings as well, unfortunately there is no program that I know of to manually set Clock Fine Delay in Windows to test out different timings and see if this was the cause of the cold boot bug.

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