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Thread: EP45-DS3R - can't change memory settings




  1. #1
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    Default EP45-DS3R - can't change memory settings

    • GA-EP45-DS3R BIOS F9
    • Q9550 with stock HSF at stock clock rate
    • 2x2GB of OCZ2N800SR4GK (DDR2 800MHz)
    • Graphics: some very old very basic PCI graphics card
    • PSU: Antec TruePower 650W
    At this early stage of my build, I am keeping the CPU at stock values, and am using a very, very old PCI graphics card. As for OS, I am keeping things strictly basic - I am booting into either DOS to run Memtest or XP Pro (with almost nothing loaded) to run CPU-Z etc. My goal is to see how far I can go with the memory before I push anything else.

    The OCZ memory I received, appears to be running fine at at 800MHz with default timing of 6-6-6-18, and timing under Profile1 (X.M.P) at 5-4-4-15. I've run Memtest86+ for several passes with no errors with both of these timings.

    In other words, the following settings work just fine (the timings are what came with the memory in SPD/EPP):

    Setting 1:
    All clock chip control / advanced clock control set to default/auto

    DRAM Performance Control
    Performance Enhance...................: [STANDARD]
    Extreme Memory Profile (X.M.P.).....: Disabled
    (G)MCH Frequency Latch...............: [Auto]
    System Memory Multiplier ..............: [Auto]
    Memory Frequency (Mhz) ..............: 800
    DRAM Timing Selectable ................: [Auto]

    (6-6-6-18)

    Setting 2:
    All clock chip control / advanced clock control set to default/auto

    DRAM Performance Control
    Performance Enhance...................: [STANDARD]
    Extreme Memory Profile (X.M.P.).....: Profile1
    (G)MCH Frequency Latch...............: [Auto]
    System Memory Multiplier ..............: [Auto]
    Memory Frequency (Mhz) ..............: 800
    DRAM Timing Selectable ................: [Auto]

    (5-4-4-15)

    I am puzzled because these appear to be the only two modes that work for me. i.e. I can freely change between these, and the system readily boots as soon as I save and exit the BIOS setup.

    If I change anything else, the mobo will try and fail to boot a couple of times, and then it appears to reset the timing to 6-6-6-18. The next time I enter M.I.T in BIOS, I get a warning in red that "The system has experienced boot failure because of overclocking or changes of voltages."

    For example, if I try

    Setting 3:
    All clock chip control / advanced clock control set to default/auto

    DRAM Performance Control
    Performance Enhance...................: [STANDARD]
    Extreme Memory Profile (X.M.P.).....: Profile1
    (G)MCH Frequency Latch...............: [Auto]
    System Memory Multiplier ..............: [Auto]
    Memory Frequency (Mhz) ..............: 800
    DRAM Timing Selectable ................: [Manual]

    Standard Timing Control
    CAS Latency Time........................4
    tRCD .........................................4
    tRP'...........................................4
    tRAS..........................................15

    In this scenario, the system tries to boot a couple of times, gives up and then boots with default timing. Then it gives me the error message again.

    I am a newb when it comes to modern day OC'ing. I would appreciate pointers on how I can best work with the BIOS settings of this board. Or it could very well be that I am unlucky, and these memory sticks only run at spec. In which case, I would love some help in determining if this is what it is.

    Thanks,

    Tim

  2. #2
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    Default Re: EP45-DS3R - can't change memory settings

    Can the memory really support CAS Latency Time 4?
    and would you like to try add some voltage?

  3. #3
    Lsdmeasap's Avatar
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    Default Re: EP45-DS3R - can't change memory settings

    Well if you want a full set of timings I can give them to you, a few if you like. But it seems like you would like to learn which is very good!

    So I will tell you a few pointers for 2x2GB. First you will have to be sure MCH Core voltage has been added, normally 1.25-1.3V will work just fine for 800Mhz.

    You will need to be sure that trfc is getting at least 52-62 (See my ram guide and get MemSet so you can check in windows what Auto is actually giving you. As what you see on the left in the BIOS for Auto is not always what you will get in windows.

    You will also have to manually set the Ram voltage, to the ram spec on the sticker of the ram. IE: 2.1V

    And I would also check and be sure Static tRead Value (tRD - Performance Level in MemSet) is not set to 6 or less. Suggested would be 7-10

    Like I said, I am glad to see you are in there trying to learn! If you would like some suggested settings then feel free to ask

    I do see your Spec CAS is 5-4-4 with those sticks. So CAS Latency Time of 4 is not likely going to work unless you overvolt them past warrantied amount of 2.1V. You will have to likely stick to 5-4-4-10/12/15

    I will be back later today, or tonight to see if you got any further or would like some settings posted. And if you do and I am gone look around, I post 20+ pages of settings each day

    Good luck, and I will see ya later on or here in a few

  4. #4
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    Default Re: EP45-DS3R - can't change memory settings

    Quote Originally Posted by GIGABYTE - Janus Yeh View Post
    Can the memory really support CAS Latency Time 4?
    and would you like to try add some voltage?
    Thanks for the responses Janus and LSD.

    @Janus, I don't know if the memory can really support tCAS of 4. That's why I was experimenting. But I think I have deeper problems.

    @LSD, Thanks for the additional details such as MCH core voltage. I have not had much time to muck with it, but here's where I am. I am basically trying to manually set what would be found in Profile1. i.e. instead or relying on Profile1 (in X.M.P.) to select the settings, I am trying to do it manually. My thoughts are, if I can do this as a baseline, then I can OC from here.

    The following is what I put into BIOS (sorry for lack of formatting - vBulletin did not like me inserting Excel objects):

    <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p>MB Intelligent Tweaker(M.I.T.)
    Robust Graphics Booster [Auto]
    CPU Clock Ratio 8 X
    Fine CPU Clock Ratio +0.5
    CPU Frequency 2.83GHz

    *** Clock Chip Control
    >>>Standard Clock Control
    CPU Host Clock Control [Disabled]
    CPU Host Frequency (Mhz) 333
    PCI Express Frequency (Mhz) [Auto]
    C.I.A.2 [Disabled]

    >>>Advanced Clock Control
    CPU Clock Drive 800mV
    PCI Express Clock Drive 900mV
    CPU Clock Skew (ps)lower 0ps
    MCH Clock Skew (ps) 0ps

    *** DRAM Performance Control
    Performance Enhance [Standard]
    Extreme Memory Profile (X.M.P.) [Profile1]
    (G)MCH Frequency Latch [Auto]
    System Memory Multiplier (SPD) [Auto]
    Memory Frequency (Mhz) ..............: 1065 MHz 800
    DRAM Timing Selectable (SPD) [Manual]

    >>> Standard Timing Control
    CAS Latency Time [5]
    tRCD [4]
    tRP [4]
    tRAS [15]

    >>>Advanced Timing Control [Press Enter]
    tRRD 3 [Auto]
    tWTR 3 [Auto]
    tWR 6 [Auto]
    tRFC 46 [52]
    tRTP 3 [Auto]
    Command Rate (CMD) 0 [Auto]

    >>>Channel A
    Static tRead Value 8 [10]
    tRD Phase0 Adjustment 1 [Auto]
    tRD Phase1 Adjustment 0 [Auto]
    tRD Phase2 Adjustment 0 [Auto]
    tRD Phase3 Adjustment 0 [Auto]
    Trd2rd(Different Rank) 6 [Auto]
    Twr2wr(Different Rank) 6 [Auto]
    Twr2rd(Different Rank) 5 [Auto]
    Trd2wr(Same/Diff Rank) 8 [Auto]
    Dimm1 Clock Skew Control [-300ps]
    Dimm2 Clock Skew Control [-500ps]

    >>>Channel B
    Static tRead Value 8 [Auto]
    tRD Phase0 Adjustment 0 [Auto]
    tRD Phase1 Adjustment 0 [0-Normal]
    tRD Phase2 Adjustment 0 [Auto]
    tRD Phase3 Adjustment 0 [1-Advanced]
    Trd2rd(Different Rank) 6 [11]
    Twr2wr(Different Rank) 6 [15]
    Twr2rd(Different Rank) 5 [7]
    Trd2wr(Same/Diff Rank) 8 [15]
    Dimm1 Clock Skew Control [-700ps]
    Dimm2 Clock Skew Control [+600ps]

    *** Motherboard Voltage Control
    >>>CPU
    CPU Vcore [Auto]
    CPU Termination [Auto]
    CPU PLL [Auto]
    CPU Referen [Auto]
    CPU Reference2 [Auto]
    >>>MCH/ICH
    MCH Core [1.3V]
    MCH Reference [Auto]
    MCH/DRAM Ref [Auto]
    ICH I/O [Auto]
    ICH Core [Auto]
    >>>DRAM
    DRAM Voltage [2.1V]
    DRAM Termination [Auto]
    Channel A Reference 0.900V [Auto]
    Channel B Reference 0.900V [Auto]

    Advanced Settings
    Limit CPUID Max. to 3 [Disabled]
    No-Execute Memory Protect [Enabled]
    CPU Enhanced Halt (C1E) [Disabled]
    CPU Thermal Monitor 2(TM2) [Enabled]
    CPU EIST Function [Disabled]
    Virtualization Technology [Disabled]
    </o:p>

    This failed. (BTW, I have no idea why the Channel B settings are the way they are).

    After the failure to boot, the mobo reset and then booted. Here are the excerpts from Memset 3.5 after the failure:

    CAS 6
    RAS to CAS Rd 6
    RAS to CAS Wr 6
    tRP 6
    tRAS 18

    tRFC 46
    Performance Level 11
    CR 2T

    The settings I entered into BIOS should really just mimic the timings of the EPP profile (with the over voltages that you suggested). But as you can see, this set of entries failed failed to boot, and MemSet shows that the BIOS reverted to default 6-6-6-18 timings.

    If I reset everything back to [Auto] and select [Profile1] under X.M.P., the system boots and Memset reports 5-4-4-15 with Performance Level of 10.

    ??? I'm so confused ???

    Thanks again for your time and effort.

  5. #5
    Lsdmeasap's Avatar
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    Default Re: EP45-DS3R - can't change memory settings

    Try
    MCH latch 333
    Memroy Multi 3.2
    trfc 55
    command rate 2

    Ahh, full set of suggested timing ranges below, makes it easier on ya

    And set both channel Static tRead to 12 and see if that helps for now

    AND PLEASE!!! Since you said Overclocking Manually set PCI Express to 100 NOW, so you are in the habit of doing so and remember to do so if you see it not set to 100. Auto will raise it as you overclock, so please get used to leave or manually setting it.

    Those XMP settings may not work in your board, and you will likely need to use what I Will suggest below here >>>>

    MB Intelligent Tweaker(M.I.T.)
    Robust Graphics Booster [Auto]
    CPU Clock Ratio 8 X
    Fine CPU Clock Ratio +0.5
    CPU Frequency 2.83GHz

    *** Clock Chip Control
    >>>Standard Clock Control
    CPU Host Clock Control [Disabled]
    CPU Host Frequency (Mhz) 333
    PCI Express Frequency (Mhz) 100
    C.I.A.2 [Disabled]

    >>>Advanced Clock Control
    CPU Clock Drive 800mV
    PCI Express Clock Drive 900mV
    CPU Clock Skew (ps)lower 0ps
    MCH Clock Skew (ps) 0ps

    *** DRAM Performance Control
    Performance Enhance [Standard]
    Extreme Memory Profile (X.M.P.) [Profile1] << Disabled with these settings.
    (G)MCH Frequency Latch [333]
    System Memory Multiplier (SPD) [3.20]
    Memory Frequency (Mhz) ..............: 1065 Mhz
    DRAM Timing Selectable (SPD) [Manual]

    >>> Standard Timing Control
    CAS Latency Time [5]
    tRCD [4]
    tRP [4]
    tRAS [15]

    >>>Advanced Timing Control [Press Enter]
    tRRD 3-4
    tWTR 3-6 (May need 8-12)
    tWR 4-6 (May need 8-14)
    tRFC 48 (52-62)
    tRTP 3-6
    Command Rate (CMD)2

    >>>Channel A
    Static tRead Value 7-12
    tRD Phase0 Adjustment 1 [Auto]
    tRD Phase1 Adjustment 0 [Auto]
    tRD Phase2 Adjustment 0 [Auto]
    tRD Phase3 Adjustment 0 [Auto]
    Trd2rd(Different Rank) 6 [Auto]
    Twr2wr(Different Rank) 6 [Auto]
    Twr2rd(Different Rank) 5 [Auto]
    Trd2wr(Same/Diff Rank) 8 [Auto]
    Dimm1 Clock Skew Control [-300ps]
    Dimm2 Clock Skew Control [-500ps]

    >>>Channel B
    Static tRead Value 7-12
    tRD Phase0 Adjustment 0 [Auto]
    tRD Phase1 Adjustment 0 [0-Normal]
    tRD Phase2 Adjustment 0 [Auto]
    tRD Phase3 Adjustment 0 [1-Advanced]
    Trd2rd(Different Rank) 6 [11]
    Twr2wr(Different Rank) 6 [15]
    Twr2rd(Different Rank) 5 [7]
    Trd2wr(Same/Diff Rank) 8 [15]
    Dimm1 Clock Skew Control [-700ps]
    Dimm2 Clock Skew Control [+600ps]

    *** Motherboard Voltage Control
    >>>CPU
    CPU Vcore [Auto]
    CPU Termination [Auto]
    CPU PLL [Auto]
    CPU Referen [Auto]
    CPU Reference2 [Auto]

    >>>MCH/ICH
    MCH Core [1.3V] <<<1.25 or so may be fine as well
    MCH Reference [Auto]
    MCH/DRAM Ref [Auto]
    ICH I/O [Auto]
    ICH Core [Auto]

    >>>DRAM
    DRAM Voltage [2.1V]
    DRAM Termination [Auto]
    Channel A Reference 0.900V [Auto]
    Channel B Reference 0.900V [Auto]

    Advanced Settings
    Limit CPUID Max. to 3 [Disabled]
    No-Execute Memory Protect [Enabled]
    CPU Enhanced Halt (C1E) [Disabled]
    CPU Thermal Monitor 2(TM2) [Enabled]
    CPU EIST Function [Disabled]
    Virtualization Technology [Disabled]

  6. #6
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    Default Re: EP45-DS3R - can't change memory settings

    Thanks. I will DEFINITELY force the PCI to be 100MHz.

    I just received my Xigmatek HSF. I can't stand the noise from the stock cooler. So I am in the process of re-doing the cooling. May be a day or so before I get to test these out.

  7. #7
    Lsdmeasap's Avatar
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    Default Re: EP45-DS3R - can't change memory settings

    Cool, Nice coolers I hear

    Good luck, and of course post back if you run into any issues

  8. #8
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    Default Re: EP45-DS3R - can't change memory settings

    Hey LSD, I'm back. Thanks for standing by. I plugged in your numbers but the BIOS failed again. At this point, I have a suspicion that it doesn't matter what numbers we plug in, my rig does NOT like me manually setting anything related to memory.

    But before we get back to tweaking memory, I'v been having a little fun with my new Xigmatek cooler. The installation required some dexterity. But it's all good. I was stressing a bit about the stock Xigmatek fan which was LOUD at full throttle (i.e. connected to a 3-pin header). Wasted a couple of days buying and trying out different fans - only to find out that once the stock fan is modulated thru PWM (on a 4-pin header), it is actually pretty quiet.

    Anyway, once this cooler was in, I could NOT resist the temptation to fool with the CPU clock. So here's where we're at:

    Q9550 at 3.6GHz (8x450MHz)
    Memory at 900MHz
    SpeedFan reports 61, 58, 57, 58 deg - cores 100% loaded with Prime95.


    Not too shabby eh?

    Here are the details:

    MB Intelligent Tweaker(M.I.T.)
    Robust Graphics Booster [Auto]
    CPU Clock Ratio 8 X
    Fine CPU Clock Ratio 0.0
    CPU Frequency 3.6GHz


    *** Clock Chip Control
    >>>Standard Clock Control
    CPU Host Clock Control [Enabled]
    CPU Host Frequency (Mhz) 450
    PCI Express Frequency (Mhz) [100]
    C.I.A.2 [Disabled]

    >>>Advanced Clock Control
    CPU Clock Drive 800mV
    PCI Express Clock Drive 900mV
    CPU Clock Skew (ps)lower 0ps
    MCH Clock Skew (ps) 0ps

    *** DRAM Performance Control
    Performance Enhance [Standard]
    Extreme Memory Profile (X.M.P.) [Profile1]
    (G)MCH Frequency Latch [Auto]
    System Memory Multiplier (SPD) [2.00D]
    Memory Frequency (Mhz) 900
    DRAM Timing Selectable (SPD) [Auto]

    >>> Standard Timing Control
    CAS Latency Time [5]
    tRCD [4]
    tRP [4]
    tRAS [15]

    >>>Advanced Timing Control (Greyed Out)
    tRRD 3 [Auto]
    tWTR 3 [8]
    tWR 6 [8]
    tRFC 46 [52]
    tRTP 3 [3]
    Command Rate (CMD) 0 [2]

    >>>Channel A (Greyed Out)
    Static tRead Value 11 [10]
    tRD Phase0 Adjustment 0 [Auto]
    tRD Phase1 Adjustment 0 [Auto]
    tRD Phase2 Adjustment 0 [Auto]
    tRD Phase3 Adjustment 0 [Auto]
    Trd2rd(Different Rank) 6 [Auto]
    Twr2wr(Different Rank) 6 [Auto]
    Twr2rd(Different Rank) 5 [Auto]
    Trd2wr(Same/Diff Rank) 8 [Auto]
    Dimm1 Clock Skew Control [-300ps]
    Dimm2 Clock Skew Control [-500ps]

    >>>Channel B (Greyed Out)
    Static tRead Value 11 [12]
    tRD Phase0 Adjustment 0 [Auto]
    tRD Phase1 Adjustment 0 [0-Normal]
    tRD Phase2 Adjustment 0 [Auto]
    tRD Phase3 Adjustment 0 [1-Advanced]
    Trd2rd(Different Rank) 6 [11]
    Twr2wr(Different Rank) 6 [15]
    Twr2rd(Different Rank) 5 [7]
    Trd2wr(Same/Diff Rank) 8 [15]
    Dimm1 Clock Skew Control [-700ps]
    Dimm2 Clock Skew Control [+600ps]

    *** Motherboard Voltage Control
    >>>CPU
    CPU Vcore [1.3875V]
    CPU Termination [1.40V]
    CPU PLL [1.61V]
    CPU Reference [Auto]
    >>>MCH/ICH
    MCH Core [Auto]
    MCH Reference [Auto]
    MCH/DRAM Ref [Auto]
    ICH I/O [Auto]
    ICH Core [Auto]
    >>>DRAM
    DRAM Voltage [Auto]
    DRAM Termination [Auto]
    Channel A Reference 0.900V [Auto]
    Channel B Reference 0.900V [Auto]

    Advanced Settings
    Limit CPUID Max. to 3 [Disabled]
    No-Execute Memory Protect [Enabled]
    CPU Enhanced Halt (C1E) [Disabled]
    CPU Thermal Monitor 2(TM2) [Enabled]
    CPU EIST Function [Disabled]
    Virtualization Technology [Disabled]

    OK. So back to the discussion about memory. It seems that the moment I touch MCH or DRAM voltage, or if I try to manually set timings, this motherboard barfs. (all of the settings above were greyed out meaning they were auto selected).

    However, as you can see above, if I tweak bus speeds and the memory multiplier, I can achieve higher memory clocks. (I was able to boot once with memory at 1GHz. But Windows was unstable, so I backed off.)

    From tests all morning, I'm finding that my CPU with the above Voltage settings can only get to around 3.6GHz and remain stable. Since this mobo doesn't allow arbitrary memory multipliers, I decided to lower the CPU multiplier to 8x and increase the bus speed to achive 3.6. Coupled with a 2X memory multiple, I was then able to achieve 900MHz.

    But this increased memory bus speeds cost me in terms of more relaxed timings. The BIOS auto-selected the timings. Memset 3.5 reports:

    5-5-5-17 with tRFC of 52. Interestingly, it does NOT report tRD/performance level. That entry is blank.

    I have not yet run benchmarks so I don't yet know what this profile means from a performance standpoint. I could probably play a little bit more with the bus speeds (like backing off to 7.5 multiplier and increasing the memory some more).

    But I have now a few questions:
    1. Do I have a bad mobo or do I have a supersensitive RAM kit? Not being able to manually adjust the RAS CAS timings, or DRAM voltages bothers me. Perhaps I should just be happy that I have been able to OC the memory from 800MHz to 900MHz.
    2. What about the CPU Voltages I set? Are they already too high? Can I go higher? Since Speedfan reports reasonable temps, these settings seem to be OK. But it feels like I'm leaving something on the table. I may have a bit of headroom to add a bit more juice to get more stability (one of the cores errors out while running Prime). What do you think?

    Thanks for your help.

  9. #9
    Lsdmeasap's Avatar
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    Default Re: EP45-DS3R - can't change memory settings

    Nice, in a way.

    Maybe it is just the ram, I see OCZ has been updating SPD programming since it was wrong from the get go, so I could see it.

    Yes, you can go higher in voltages, you are likely getting far less then you see in the BIOS once inside windows.

    As for the main issue if it is not the sensitive ram, maybe it is the BIOS version. Have you tested others?

    Do you have $$ to spare? If so you may want to look into buying some Mushkins

    That no Trd shown makes me think maybe the BIOS is indeed buggy, as even in Auto you should see a setting. High one likely,but it should be there for sure.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: EP45-DS3R - can't change memory settings

    Hmm Can't edit my own post. I just changed the VCore setting to 1.35V. Previously, VDroop was so large that I was able to use a larger value and still have VCore reported as less than 1.325V in SpeedFan. But I just noticed that VCore crept up, so I had to lower the BIOS setting.

    I am currently running Memtest86+ to see if memory is OK at 900MHz. Will let this run for a few passes before I report back.

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