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Thread: Can someone confirm my power supply is up the creek?!




  1. #31
    Lsdmeasap's Avatar
    Lsdmeasap is offline GIGABYTE Guru
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    Default Re: Can someone confirm my power supply is up the creek?!

    P&PC make top of the line though, so if the user has the cash I would get it. Well worth the money, if you have it. If you do not, yes there are many lesser quality choices

    *EDIT*

    Good choice since it seems you have the cash!
    Last edited by Lsdmeasap; 09-29-2008 at 11:42 PM.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Can someone confirm my power supply is up the creek?!

    well, i had the cash... just means i won't be ing quite as much this month!

    if its got a 5 year manufacturers warranty, it seems the better choice otherwise i'll be doing this all over again in a couple of years!

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Can someone confirm my power supply is up the creek?!

    Quote Originally Posted by dylan0451 View Post
    well, i had the cash... just means i won't be ing quite as much this month!

    if its got a 5 year manufacturers warranty, it seems the better choice otherwise i'll be doing this all over again in a couple of years!
    Was the P&PC cheaper than the HX520 then?

    just going back to the cpu voltage....does that then mean, hypothetically, say i put in the bios cpu voltage 1.4v then in windows the drop then read 1.3620v that it would be operating within intel specs, or would i actually still be putting 1.4v through it?!
    Hypothetically and if all the voltages were being read accurately too, then yes your "1.3620" would be the voltage across the CPU.

    As you increase the Voltage the current rises too, so if the CPU voltage regulator or the motherboard isn't the best (say 4 layer instead of 6 or more) then the volt drop will increase. This will be most noticeable at times of heavy load.

    The problem for Motherboard designers/engineers is we are talking about a very low voltage, with high current loading (ie modern CPU's). Varying current draw say between 30 - 100amps (for example) needs an exceptionally stable regulator to keep the voltage from deviating. And when you are running at just say 1.2 volts with a tight range, it doesn't take a very big percentage swing to drastically vary your voltage out of tolerance.
    Last edited by VorLonUK; 09-30-2008 at 12:40 AM.
    GA-P35C-DS3R Rev2.0 F11 bios, E8200 (@3.0Ghz), OCZ DDR3 PC3-10666 Reaper 4GB (@1200Mhz), Xonar D1, 8800GTS 512, Corsair HX520 (Single 12volt line, Max 40A), WDC 3200aaks/5000aaks in AHCI mode, Vista 64 Premium.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Can someone confirm my power supply is up the creek?!

    silencer 750 was about 20 more expensive, but then, if it survives to power another upgrade then thats fine by me!

    couldn't get the pc to last long enough to download memset - i think the video card OC finally tipped the scales and pushed my existing psu too far!

    hopefully the new psu will arrive today, so i'll swap over tonight and hopefully all will be well.

    shall get memset going however so as to interrogate ram subtimings to get an idea what auto settings should be set to.

    cheers for all the replies!

  5. #35

    Default Re: Can someone confirm my power supply is up the creek?!

    Quote Originally Posted by dylan0451 View Post
    just going back to the cpu voltage....does that then mean, hypothetically, say i put in the bios cpu voltage 1.4v then in windows the drop then read 1.3620v that it would be operating within intel specs, or would i actually still be putting 1.4v through it?!
    Setting 1.4 in Bios will let the CPU run at lower voltage because of V-offset and V-droop but will allow voltage spikes to 1.4 volts and more, which is allowed for short periods per Intel specifications.

    The spec is to 1.3620v and the decision is yours. Some extreme overclockers feel that 1.4 and 1.45v is safe. Intel does not say that. No one knows for sure, only time and experience will tell.

    I'm sure the rest of the community is getting tired of this graph but this is the way it works.



    As intended, Voffset and Vdroop ensure that the supply voltage never exceeds CPU VID

    AnandTech: Overclocking Intel's New 45nm QX9650: The Rules Have Changed

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Can someone confirm my power supply is up the creek?!

    That graph makes things x9.5 (!) easier to understand...

    from the anandtech link provided at the bottom of your post i quote the paragraph of text which was below the posted graph:

    "The CPU VID setting establishes the absolute maximum allowable processor supply voltage experienced during transient conditions and is not the target idle voltage. We hope this statement draws attention to this important distinction, as many believe the opposite to be true - a mistake all too commonly made. Together, Vdroop and Voffset ensure that the peak CPU supply voltage seen during heavy to light loading changes remains well below the established maximum. If you determine that 1.17V, as in the case above, is not sufficient for maintaining CPU stability under load, simply increasing the CPU VID does correct the problem."

    so voffset is dynamic, its amount of bounce linked to voltage regulator quality, and max value limited by CPU VID right....

    so the actual figure that you adjust in the bios is VID, which intel advises against figures higher than 1.3625v?

    if so, how is target idle voltage derived?

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Can someone confirm my power supply is up the creek?!

    if so, how is target idle voltage derived?
    Good question!

    I can find the VID range for a particular CPU, I can even find the Max VID that Intel have set for my CPU, yet I can't find or (don't know yet) how a nominal working figure is derived.

    As far as the chart goes above, it is just highlighting what takes place in electronics, especially when there is a heavy load being switched on and off, it certainly isn't CPU specfic.
    The Peak difference shown in that chart is 20mv (ie from nominal to next peak).

    However, pick a data sheet, any Intel CPU Data sheet and search for "Absolute maximum Ratings" in the pdf document.
    You will see Max "VCC" is well above the maximum VID for the CPU because it has to be! There has to be a maximum ceiling, ie a reasonable level over the highest normal working voltage for a given CPU. So the chances of a voltage peak reaching the Absolute maximum are unlikely if choosing a higher/overclock voltage in the VID range.
    Obviously going way above that and setting the voltage in an area below the Absolute maximum could easily see voltage peaks exceed that max value (as per the graph above) and end up damaging the CPU very quickly.

    But we do the same with memory too.... Take DDR2, if you look at Micron FBGA chips that are fabricated onto DDR module PCB's for Crucial and other memory manufacturers, many in their current range have a Absolute Maximum Rating of 2.3volts. So when Module manufacturers guarantee voltages as high as 2.2 or 2.25volts it's they that are hoping that the bulk of their customers won't push the modules that high to the edge of Absolute Maximum - especially when some offer a lifetime guarantee.
    Last edited by VorLonUK; 09-30-2008 at 09:44 PM.
    GA-P35C-DS3R Rev2.0 F11 bios, E8200 (@3.0Ghz), OCZ DDR3 PC3-10666 Reaper 4GB (@1200Mhz), Xonar D1, 8800GTS 512, Corsair HX520 (Single 12volt line, Max 40A), WDC 3200aaks/5000aaks in AHCI mode, Vista 64 Premium.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Can someone confirm my power supply is up the creek?!

    well, the silencer 750 is in... problem solved.

    it's pretty silent funnily enough....

    turns out my old supply was jeantech, 460w with a 500w peak aswell
    Last edited by dylan0451; 10-01-2008 at 05:08 AM.

  9. #39
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    Lsdmeasap is offline GIGABYTE Guru
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    Default Re: Can someone confirm my power supply is up the creek?!

    So, all working as it should now then I take it? If so, great to hear it!

    Quote Originally Posted by dylan0451
    Hi there buddy,
    I'm PM'ing in reply to your offer to see if my cheapo ram can do anything better than its set to. bios settings below - think i've managed to get 5-5-5-15 stable ok but i'm not sure about fiddling with the subtimings and screwing up my xp install!
    just got my pc p&c silencer 750 - turns out my old one was a jeantech 460w (continuous) ! I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did!
    feel free to post in the thread if you have a spare minute, i notice you get across almost the whole board so you must be pretty busy, this bios knowledge just a hobby/gained via overclocking or are you in the trade?

    http://forums.tweaktown.com/f69/can-...97/index2.html


    Robust Graphics Booster___________ [Auto]
    CPU Clock Ratio ____________ [9]
    Fine CPU Clock Ratio ____________ [0.5]
    CPU Host Clock Control_ [Enabled]
    CPU Host Frequency (MHz)__________ [395]
    PCI Express Frequency (Mhz)_______ [100]
    C.I.A. 2__________________________ [Disabled]
    System Memory Multiplier (SPD)____ [2.00]
    DRAM Timing Selectable_______ SPD __ [Manual]

    Performance Enhance = [Standard]

    CAS Latency Time________________ 5
    Dram RAS# to CAS# Delay_________ 5
    Dram RAS# Precharge Delay_______5
    Precharge Delay (tRAS)__________ 12/15

    ACT to ACT Delay (tRRD)_________ 3-4
    Rank Write to READ Delay________ 3-6
    Write to Precharge Delay_________ 4-6
    Refresh to ACT Delay______________ 48-52
    Read to Precharge Delay__________ 3-5
    Static tRead Value_______________ 8 [auto] <<< 6 << At 800 or lower, 6 may or may not boot. May cause HARD FAIL and need CMOS clear. Suggested >>> (7-10)

    Static tRead Phase Adjust________ 0 [auto] << always leave

    System Voltage Control____ [Manual]
    DDR2 OverVoltage Control__ [+0.1V] << may need .2 for tighter timings, up to you

    PCI-E OverVoltage Control_ [+0.1V]
    FSB OverVoltage Control___ [+0.1V]
    (G)MCH OverVoltage Control [+0.2V] << Maybe less 1.25-1.5
    CPU Voltage Control_______ [1.3250V]

    Limit CPUID Max. to 3.....................: [Disabled]
    No-Execute Memory Protect............: [Disabled]
    CPU Enhanced Halt (C1E)................: [Disabled]
    C2/C2E State Support....................: [Disabled]
    x C4/C4E State Support..................: [Disabled]
    CPU Thermal Monitor 2(TM2) ...........: [Enabled]
    CPU EIST Function.........................: [Disabled]
    Virtualization Technology................: [Disabled]

    cheers for all the help past + present - I'll attach mem set pic below

    Ya, I work in A PC shop, and it has been my life trade. So I know quite a bit about overclocking, but by far am not a "Expert" like many users I know around the net

    Can you give me a link to this specific ram? If not, can you for sure say what speed it is? Maybe show the SPD tab of CPU-z as well, and the EPP section of the memset SPD Tab if there is a EPP section in the dropdown menu. Being budget, you may not get much farther with it then what you have. Suggested things to try added into your PM quoted above

  10. #40

    Default Re: Can someone confirm my power supply is up the creek?!

    Quote Originally Posted by dylan0451 View Post
    so voffset is dynamic, its amount of bounce linked to voltage regulator quality, and max value limited by CPU VID right....

    so the actual figure that you adjust in the bios is VID, which intel advises against figures higher than 1.3625v?

    if so, how is target idle voltage derived?
    It is really the bios vid as vid is dynamic and yes Intel advises 1.3625v for your CPU.

    Target idle voltage is as you now know the bios voltage after V-offset. Since you already know the current offset use that amount to compute what you want. After that it is just trial and error using CPUZ.

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