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Thread: Mushkin pc6400 X-line extreme memory




  1. #1
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    Default Mushkin pc6400 X-line extreme memory

    Hi there everyone,

    I've recently got hold of the 4gb kit and have spent the weekend trying to get it to optimal settings

    with only the basic free version of everest to use as a benchmark, i don't know how accurate the figures are below, but they give an indication atleast of the trade off between frequency + timings.

    the figures with the memory at 1000mhz can be ignored as it turned out the memory wasn't stable. infact after the memory could pass half hour/hour of stress testing often it couldn't last more that a few mins in a 3d heavy environment, for that reason the new stalker game became my stability test

    basically it seems you can't have yout cake + eat it?! i can get high read/write figures at high freq + loose settings but a low copy figure

    or

    a high/mid copy figure but a significantly lower read + write value when running the ram lower freq but tighter timings

    basically, what should I be aiming for? which one of the settings below looks to be closer to optimum?

    3.7cpu 390fsb 780mhz 1:1 4-4-4-12 trd8

    read - 7505
    write - 8278
    copy - 7268
    latency - 68.0

    3.7cpu 390fsb 936mhz 2.4 5-5-5-15 trd8

    read - 7873
    write - 8279
    copy - 7553
    latency - 65.1

    3.6cpu 400fsb 800mhz 1:1 4-4-4-12 trd7

    read - 7855
    write - 8515
    copy - 7529
    latency - 63.8

    3.8cpu 400fsb 960mhz 2.4 5-5-5-15 trd8

    read - 8093
    write - 8493
    copy - 7709
    latency - 63.3

    3.8cpu 400fsb 1000mhz 2.5 5-5-5-15 trd8

    read - 8189
    write - 8491
    copy - 7933
    latency - 62.7

    3.833cpu 425fsb 850mhz 1:1 4-4-4-12 trd8

    read - 7940
    write - 8969
    copy - 6068
    latency - 63.9

    3.6cpu 450fsb 900mhz 1:1 5-5-5-15 trd8

    read - 8256
    write - 9491
    copy - 5801
    latency - 61.7

    3.562cpu 475fsb 950mhz 1:1 5-5-5-15 trd8

    read - 8572
    write - 10021
    copy - 6580
    latency - 59.1

    3.5cpu 500fsb 1000mhz 1:1 5-5-5-15 trd8

    read - 9025
    write - 10526
    copy - 6494
    latency - 56.4

    3.750cpu 500fsb 1000mhz 1:1 5-5-5-15 trd8

    read - 9072
    write - 10482
    copy - 6440
    latency - 56.6

  2. #2
    Lsdmeasap's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mushkin pc6400 X-line extreme memory

    That ram will do 1000 stable, you just have to tweak it a bit more.

    As for optimum? Hmm, what MCH Strap are you using? Are you tweaking all other advanced options as well? I ask that because several of those could be far better at the speeds and latency, at the settings/speeds you note.

    I will have my exact same sticks this week (Wed I think) you have model 996580 right? If so I will have a better answer for you then. I do think these will do 900 at 444-12 with some tweaking. I know for sure they will do 445-12 at 900.

    One other thing to note, they will also run 443-10/433-10 or so at 800, and they will do 1T up to about 850 I believe. So there is plenty more testing you can do to find the best settings. You may also get them to boot at 800 w/ 443-5

    Good stability tests IMO are Orthos, and Memtest86+

    So how you like those ram modules? Seems from all those tests like you are having great luck with then working at all types of settings for you

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Mushkin pc6400 X-line extreme memory

    Quote Originally Posted by Lsdmeasap View Post
    That ram will do 1000 stable, you just have to tweak it a bit more.

    As for optimum? Hmm, what MCH Strap are you using? Are you tweaking all other advanced options as well? I ask that because several of those could be far better at the speeds and latency, at the settings/speeds you note.

    I will have my exact same sticks this week (Wed I think) you have model 996580 right? If so I will have a better answer for you then. I do think these will do 900 at 444-12 with some tweaking. I know for sure they will do 445-12 at 900.

    One other thing to note, they will also run 443-10/433-10 or so at 800, and they will do 1T up to about 850 I believe. So there is plenty more testing you can do to find the best settings. You may also get them to boot at 800 w/ 443-5

    Good stability tests IMO are Orthos, and Memtest86+

    So how you like those ram modules? Seems from all those tests like you are having great luck with then working at all types of settings for you
    well, 1000mhz seems to yeild better read/write figures but lower copy. the mch straps used are after the ram frequency - 1:1 2.4 2.5 etc.

    just for that sakes of seeing 'what way to go' i left some of the settings on auto, probably why they wern't stable but i was just doing quick tests to see whether i should be going after frequency or timing

    indeed, the product ref. is 996580 so if you're getting the same sticks it'll be great to see what you can do with them!

    i'd love to give some of the timings a go that you've posted above

    900 at 4-4-4-12
    900 4-4-5-12
    800 4-4-3-10
    800 4-3-3-10

    these were the general settings i was tweaking, when trying above 900mhz i set the voltage to +0.3 = 2.1.
    the settings with auto by them were ones i didn't play with and let the bios decide what to do with

    CAS Latency Time________________ 5
    Dram RAS# to CAS# Delay_________ 5
    Dram RAS# Precharge Delay_______5
    Precharge Delay (tRAS)__________ 15
    ACT to ACT Delay (tRRD)_________ 3 [auto]
    Rank Write to READ Delay________ 3 [auto]
    Write to Precharge Delay_________ 6 [auto]
    Refresh to ACT Delay______________ 52
    Read to Precharge Delay__________ 3 [auto]
    Static tRead Value_______________ 8
    Static tRead Phase Adjust________ 0 [auto]

    can you suggest upper and lower limits for the auto values? perhaps ones for higher freq/loose timings + stock freq + tight timings?

    i was going to play with the command rate and try setting to 1T but couldn't find it in the bios?!

    tried to change it in windows with memset but it just reverted to 2T and wouldn't let me change it.

    i love these ram modules. the options i now have, even the ablity to run them overclocked compared to those awful stick that would barely run 5-5-5-15 @ 800. thanks for the advice, i'm glad i bought them, money well spent imo

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Mushkin pc6400 X-line extreme memory

    What board are you using? I meant MCH latch sorry. If you have P35, then ya sorry Command rate will not be available to you, nor will a Latch Selection. But if you do have P35, strap Letter on the memory multiplier will help

    Ya, should have mine this Wednesday, I keep you posted on what I get out of them.

    Ya, you simply CANNOT go wrong with Mushkins! They are rock solid for sure!!

    Here is some ranges for you >>>
    CAS Latency Time________________4/5
    Dram RAS# to CAS# Delay_________ 3/4/5
    Dram RAS# Precharge Delay_______3/4/5
    Precharge Delay (tRAS)__________ 5/10/12/15

    ACT to ACT Delay (tRRD)_________ 2(3-4)
    Rank Write to READ Delay________ 3-6
    Write to Precharge Delay_________ 4-6
    Refresh to ACT Delay______________ 45-50 (52-62)
    Read to Precharge Delay__________ 2 (3-6)
    Static tRead Value_______________ (5-6 at 800 or less, may not be stable or bootable at 800 depending on other settings) 7-10 at 900-1000+
    Static tRead Phase Adjust________ 0 [auto] << always leave at Auto

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Mushkin pc6400 X-line extreme memory

    cheers for that, that should ensure some tweakage tonight!

    i have a P35 DS3L board, so that explains why i couldn't find the cmd rate setting then. as for mch latch which is the letter to be looking for on the multiplier?

    i was getting a little nervous running them at 1000mhz and wasn't sure if i was trying to push them too hard. upon using a thermal probe (finger) the heatspreader never got more than slightly warm. should these things need the top end of their quoted voltage range to operate at 900-1000?

    just to clarify....

    my understanding of the read/write/copy figures is that read + write are the more important seeing as the ram needs to be filled fast, and read from fast too. I'm unsure of the importance of the copy figure though?

    will try to remember to grab a floppy to take home tonight so as i can use memtest. in my experience getting my cpu stable it would take orthos half an hour to come up with an error wheras occt would find it within 5-10 minutes - i think occt seems to be better designed, or is it just a newer program?

    look forward to seeing what you get out of these sticks later in the week when they turn up, I'll post up what i manage tonight when i get home.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Mushkin pc6400 X-line extreme memory

    Well it should show you on the right, what is the highest available to you at the FSB you are running.

    Well often times they do not even need spec'd voltages until you get way up there, and often run better at lower voltges So I would think 8-900 2.0 would be fine, and maybe up to 1000. Anything after that I would imagine 2.1 would be needed.

    I am not so sure what is the best for those values, What I do is try to get them all close together with low latency but usually write is higher. And that is where I keep things

    Memtest Can be ran from a CD, just burn the ISO and load DOS from any other DOS CD then run memtest. Can also be ran from a Bootable USB stick. There is a USB version, you will of course need to make a Bootable USB Outlined in the Qflash guide >>>
    http://forums.tweaktown.com/f69/bios...h-guide-27576/

    Not sure, I do not use OCCT, it may just stress things more or test differently.

    Ya, I sure will keep you updated with how my testing of them goes along

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Mushkin pc6400 X-line extreme memory

    ok, well I've had a play some more though i think i'm missing something as the performance increase doesn't seem as steller as i was expecting - maybe i'm expecting too much?!

    i've never used the everest benchmarks before and the examples of machines to compete with all seem old extreme editions of things

    400fsb 800mhz 1:1

    CAS Latency Time________________4
    Dram RAS# to CAS# Delay_________ 4
    Dram RAS# Precharge Delay_______3
    Precharge Delay (tRAS)__________ 10

    ACT to ACT Delay (tRRD)_________ 3
    Rank Write to READ Delay________ 3
    Write to Precharge Delay_________ 4
    Refresh to ACT Delay______________ 52
    Read to Precharge Delay__________ 3
    Static tRead Value_______________ 6
    Static tRead Phase Adjust________ 0 [auto] << always leave at Auto

    everest says:

    read - 8015
    write - 8494
    copy - 7730
    latency - 61.0

    compared to the figures @ 500fsb/1000mhz they're pretty low, apart from the copy figure which seems impossible to get near at high freqs

    does using an fsb like ~500 put a huge strain on the board/drastically shorten the life of it?
    Last edited by dylan0451; 10-08-2008 at 05:16 AM.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Mushkin pc6400 X-line extreme memory

    First, you were expecting Stability! Which you for sure got!

    You just need to learn what setting in the BIOS affects what in windows in the benchmarks you are using. Have you used memset in windows to change things and test different settings, it is much easier that way

    Na 500 FSB is fine, how hot is your NB (System or motherboard in most apps, easytune will tell you as will everest)

    Try these changes >>>>

    ACT to ACT Delay (tRRD)_________ 3 << Try 2
    Rank Write to READ Delay________ 3 << 4 or 9-11 may be better
    Write to Precharge Delay_________ 4 << Maybe 5-6 is better
    Refresh to ACT Delay______________ 52 << try 44-48
    Read to Precharge Delay__________ 3 << Try 2
    Static tRead Value_______________ 6 << May need 7 for above adjustments, but leave until you think you need it. And the above adjustments may also need main timings of 444-10/12

    Are you using the free or paid version of everest? I am not sure if they are the same or not, so I just wondered

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    Default Re: Mushkin pc6400 X-line extreme memory

    well, you're right about the first part, it's easy to take things for granted but compared to those celenade sticks these things are on another level! where i was just desperate to get the celenade stuff stable at any old loose timings, these things have just left me with so many tuning options i don't know what to do with them!

    i do use memset in windows to play with the trd value, which has quite an impact on performance. haven't changed other settings at they seem to be labelled differently or become different values to what i hard set in the bios?!

    since using the settings i posted above i have seen the northbridge temp rise by a couple c to 34c - i imagine this would be a lot more but i've got an enzotech copper heatsink with an akasa 40mm fan attached to the top left at max output to keep temps in check

    after i've tried the settings ranges you post above for 800mhz i'll compare what i can get at 500fsb 1000mhz 1:1. the copy figure always seems to drop at high fsb but yeilds ultra high read + write figures. running 400fsb + a 2.5x divider runs the ram at 1000mhz which brings the copy up but again, trades this off by dropping the read/write

    i think i'm going to have to do more real world testing - the hope is that i can get rid of, or atleast largely reduce stutter experienced in games + apps when hdd swaps to memory + memory swaps to cpu cache. i think everest is quite an accurate gauge in this respect with its benchmarks but still, even after trawling the web i couldn't find an accurate description as to the read/write/copy importance

    i've only got the free version of everest, i think most of it works but only for 30 days. how much is it incidentally, or is there a crack floating about?!

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Mushkin pc6400 X-line extreme memory

    That's too funny to hear!

    You can use memset to change all the settings, except CAS. Even ones that are not in your BIOS, but that will just get you all excited for nothing. You see how twr and twtr changes work in your favor, and trrd

    Yes, all of that is explained here >>>
    http://forums.tweaktown.com/f69/memo...vs-bios-27283/

    Ya NB fans are nice, I have used the ThermalTake Extreme Spirit II in a few of my builds and it helped alot. Took temps down 10C or more sometimes, So I think whatever you get over stock would be great. And EnzoTech is GREAT! I use their VGA ram heatsinks and VRM/Mosfet heatsinks, superb products for sure.

    Maybe RightMark could help you find some more scores, it is ok I have used it a few times for sure. Shows many things, and is freeware. It has many features such as full system info, stability tests, multi-threaded tests ect >>>



    http://cpu.rightmark.org/products/rmma.shtml

    Download (Inside the rar is 3 different Executables, just so you know)
    http://cpu.rightmark.org/download/rmma38bin.rar

    I think it is $30 or so, and yes Google will point you to the right direction for what you asked.... That is all I can say being this is not that type of forum. I think 4.60.1500 would be a good search term for you

    My RAM is out for delivery!!!!
    Last edited by Lsdmeasap; 10-08-2008 at 10:47 PM.

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