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Thread: I hit the wall at 3.0GHz w/EP45DS3R/Q6600




  1. #1
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    Default I hit the wall at 3.0GHz w/EP45DS3R/Q6600

    Hello:

    Have been trying everything I can think of/read about/dream up to push a Gigabyte EP45-DS3R/Q6600 (G0) past 3.0 GHz (333x9) Would like to get to 3.2 GHz (400x8) to use full FSB speed, but this rig just doesn't like any FSB greater that 1333. I'd love to run it wide open at 3.6GHz (400x9), but would be real happy at 3.2 Its primary mission is a HTPC as audio/video server and also editing AVCHD video from a Sony HDR-SR11 (hence the need for speed!).

    I built this on the cheap with intensions to improve components as needed. I just purchased some "faster memory" (Corair 2x2GB DDR2 PC2-6400 800MHz 2.1V 4-4-4-12 XMS2 w/heat sinks), but couldn't get anything faster to be stable and/or cool enough. May return it as my "cheap" (Crucial 2x2GB DDR2 PC2-6400 800 MHz 1.8V 6-6-6-18 part# CT25664AA800) memory does just fine at 3.0 GHz.

    I have read most of this forum and tried many many settings over the last 3 months, but I just can't get anything over 3.0 stable and cool.

    Any ideas how to get this rig to 3.2 cool and stable? How about 3.6?

    Problems I've notice.

    1. V core is always .06v lower in CPUID than set in BIOS, ie BIOS Vcore - 1.40000V, CPUID shouws 1.34-1.36 under load with Prime95.
    2. Sometimes, Vcore will not load load propery in the BIOS (shows 1.4 in BIOS, but CPUID shows 1.28 (see #4 below)
    3. Core 0 is always the hottest (see temps below) and is the first and only core to fail as I lower the Vcore.
    4. As I go higher on the speeds, I can get the sytem to POST, but windows hangs at boot (does not give BSOD just black screen, no HDD activity). What does this indicate as far as what do I need to tweak???
    5. If vcore in CPUID goes below 1.32V=BSOD (Core 0 craps out first always and quickly).
    6. Verifying DMI Pool Data...........mostly never gives the "updated Sucessfully" message, but occasionally will after tweaking memory timings What does this mean???

    Hardware:

    EP45-DS3R V1.0 BIOS F9
    Q6600 G0
    Cooler Master Vortex 752 CPU cooler
    "Cheap Memory" is Crucial 2x2GB DDR2 PC2-6400 800 MHz 1.8V 6-6-6-18 part# CT25664AA800
    Faster Memory" is Corair 2x2GB DDR2 PC2-6400 800MHz 2.1V 4-4-4-12 XMS2 w/heat sinks
    Apevia Java Power 500W PS
    PNY NVIDIA GeForce 8600 GT 256MB PCI-E
    HDD1 (OS and Programs) 80GB IDE with converter to SATA
    HDD2 (Data) Maxtor Basics 1TB SATA II
    DVD Burner: NEC ND-3520A
    Blu-Ray Burner: TBD
    Cooler Master Mystique Case w/ 2 120mm fans front/rear

    OS
    Vista Home Premium 32bit SP1 (Build 6001)

    I am back to the Crucial "Cheaper Memory" and My settings are

    MB Intelligent Tweaker(M.I.T.)
    Robust Graphics Booster ...............: Auto
    CPU Clock Ratio ..........................: 9
    CPU Frequency ...........................: 3.00GHz (333x9)


    Clock Chip Control
    Standard Clock Control
    CPU Host Clock Control..................: [Enabled]
    CPU Host Frequency (Mhz) ............: 333 Mhz
    PCI Express Frequency (Mhz) .....: Auto (have tried 100 as well)
    C.I.A.2.......................................: Disabled

    Advanced Clock Control [Press Enter]
    CPU Clock Drive...........................: <<< Leave
    PCI Express Clock Drive.................: <<< Leave
    CPU Clock Skew (ps)....................: <<< Leave
    MCH Clock Skew (ps)...................: <<< Leave


    DRAM Performance Control
    Performance Enhance...................: [STANDARD]
    Extreme Memory Profile (X.M.P.).....: Disabled
    (G)MCH Frequency Latch...............: 333MHz
    System Memory Multiplier ..............: 2.40B
    Memory Frequency (Mhz) ..............: 800
    DRAM Timing Selectable ................: [AUTO]

    (Samsung) Current installed
    Standard Timing Control
    CAS LatencyTime........................:6
    RCD .........................................:6
    tRP...........................................:6
    tRAS..........................................:18

    (Corsair) (tried, no improvement noted)
    Standard Timing Control
    CAS LatencyTime........................:4
    RCD .........................................:4
    tRP...........................................:4
    tRAS..........................................:12

    Advanced Timing Control
    tRRD...........................................3 AUTO
    tWTR..........................................3 AUTO
    tWR............................................6 AUTO
    tRFC...........................................52 AUTO
    tRTP...........................................3 AUTO
    Command Rate (CMD) ....................:0 AUTO

    Channel A
    Static tRead Value.........................:8 AUTO
    tRD Phase0 Adjustment...................:1 AUTO
    tRD Phase1 Adjustment...................:0 AUTO
    tRD Phase2 Adjustment ..................:0 AUTO
    tRD Phase3 Adjustment...................:0 AUTO
    Trd2rd(Different Rank)....................:6 AUTO
    Twr2wr(Different Rank)...................:6 AUTO
    Twr2rd(Different Rank)...................:5 AUTO
    rd2wr(Same/Diff Rank)..................:8 AUTO
    imm1 Clock Skew Control...............: AUTO
    Dimm2 Clock Skew Control...............: AUTO

    Channel B
    Static tRead Value.........................:8 AUTO
    RD Phase0 Adjustment...................:0 AUTO
    RD Phase1 Adjustment...................:0 AUTO
    tRD Phase2 Adjustment .................:0 AUTO
    tRD Phase3 Adjustment..................:0 AUTO
    Trd2rd(Different Rank)....................:6 AUTO
    Twr2wr(Different Rank)...................:6 AUTO
    wr2rd(Different Rank)...................:5 AUTO
    rd2wr(Same/Diff Rank)..................:8 AUTO

    Dimm1 Clock Skew Control...............:Auto ps
    Dimm2 Clock Skew Control...............:Auto ps

    Motherboard Voltage Control
    Voltage Type.………... Manual
    CPU
    CPU Vcore….……….........................:1.40000
    CPUTermination.…..... 1.200V*.......: AUTO
    CPU PLL…………………....1.500V*.......: AUTO
    CPU Referen.…………....0.755V*.......: AUTO
    CPU Reference2………,,0.800V*.......: AUTO

    MCH/ICH
    MCH Core…………….....1.100V...........: 1.26
    MCH Reference….…….0.800V...........: AUTO
    MCH/DRAM Ref.…......0.900V...........: 1.000
    ICH I/O……………….....1.550V............: AUTO

    DRAM
    DRAM Voltage ……....1.800V............: 2.100
    DRAM Termination .…0.900V............: AUTO
    Channel A Reference 0.900V............: AUTO
    Channel B Reference 0.900V............: AUTO

    Advanced Settings
    Limit CPUID Max. to 3.....................: [Disabled]
    No-Execute Memory Protect............: [Enabled]
    CPU Enhanced Halt (C1E)................: [Disabled]
    CPU Thermal Monitor 2(TM2) ...........: [Enabled]
    CPU EIST Function.........................: [Disabled]
    Virtualization Technology................: [Disabled]

    Temps
    No Load
    Core0 = 30c
    Core1 = 27c
    Core2 = 26c
    Core3 = 27c

    Prime95Small FFT's
    Core0 = 67c
    Core1 = 63c
    Core2 = 63c
    Core3 = 65c

    Prime95 Stress Test after 12 hours
    Core0 = 59c
    Core1 = 56c
    Core2 = 57c
    Core3 = 58c
    <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

  2. #2
    Lsdmeasap's Avatar
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    Default Re: I hit the wall at 3.0GHz w/EP45DS3R/Q6600

    Vcore is lower because of Intel's design in windows. This is normal, all you need to to is adjust it further. I really think you just need more volts and or things manually set. Auto is not going to work well for sure and likely not at all with 2x2 very well.

    Core temps will always vary as different cores do different things as you use your system

    More voltage since you post but fail to load windows, and or adjusted manual settings you will see below. BOLDED items are a MUST for 2x2GB

    DMI Poll update success means your changed have been made and applied properly in the BIOS, or the system has reverted to some previous settings and updated the DMI Pool because your settings were incorrect. Just a sign that new settings were applied correctly and have been applied, whether it was you or the system that made the changes.

    You may also want to update the BIOS. If you do, use Stable Settings for sure and DO NOT USE @BIOS. Be sure you load optimized defaults after you do, Set your ram voltage save and apply/reboot and go BACK to the BIOS and set your disk settings again. Here please read this >>>
    http://forums.tweaktown.com/f69/bios...h-guide-27576/

    Put in the Corsair again and use these settings for 3.2 and then I can get you some 3.4 settings and see how that goes. Not all Q6600's will do 3.6 at respectable volts and temps >>>>

    MB Intelligent Tweaker(M.I.T.)
    Robust Graphics Booster ...............: Auto
    CPU Clock Ratio ..........................: 8
    CPU Frequency ...........................: 3.216GHz (402x8)


    Clock Chip Control
    Standard Clock Control
    CPU Host Clock Control..................: [Enabled]
    CPU Host Frequency (Mhz) ............: 402 Mhz
    PCI Express Frequency (Mhz) .....: 100
    C.I.A.2.......................................: Disabled

    Advanced Clock Control [Press Enter]
    CPU Clock Drive...........................: <<< Stock
    PCI Express Clock Drive.................: <<< Stock
    CPU Clock Skew (ps)....................: <<< 50-100
    MCH Clock Skew (ps)...................: <<< 50-150 << Try later for better ram performance


    DRAM Performance Control
    Performance Enhance...................: [STANDARD]
    Extreme Memory Profile (X.M.P.).....: Disabled
    (G)MCH Frequency Latch...............: 333MHz
    System Memory Multiplier ..............: 2.00B
    Memory Frequency (Mhz) ..............: 800
    DRAM Timing Selectable ................: [Manual]

    (Corsair) (tried, no improvement noted)
    Standard Timing Control
    CAS LatencyTime........................:4
    RCD .........................................:4
    tRP...........................................:4
    tRAS..........................................:12

    Set to all highest first

    Advanced Timing Control
    tRRD...........................................3-5
    tWTR..........................................3-4 (May need 12 to boot thru first time)
    tWR............................................4-6 (May need 14 to boot first thru time)
    tRFC...........................................52-62
    tRTP...........................................3-5
    Command Rate (CMD) ....................:2

    Driving strength Profiles............ 800-1066 (1066 may work best) If you do not see you need to update the BIOS. Or Press Control + F1 on the MAIN page of the BIOS and then go into MIT and you should see it. If not you have a much older BIOS and should update

    Channel A
    Static tRead Value.........................:(7/8-10) < use higher first
    tRD Phase0 Adjustment...................:1 AUTO
    tRD Phase1 Adjustment...................:0 AUTO
    tRD Phase2 Adjustment ..................:0 AUTO
    tRD Phase3 Adjustment...................:0 AUTO
    Trd2rd(Different Rank)....................:6 AUTO
    Twr2wr(Different Rank)...................:6 AUTO
    Twr2rd(Different Rank)...................:5 AUTO
    rd2wr(Same/Diff Rank)..................:8 AUTO
    imm1 Clock Skew Control...............: AUTO
    Dimm2 Clock Skew Control...............: AUTO

    Channel B
    Static tRead Value.........................:(7/8-10) < use higher first
    RD Phase0 Adjustment...................:0 AUTO
    RD Phase1 Adjustment...................:0 AUTO
    tRD Phase2 Adjustment .................:0 AUTO
    tRD Phase3 Adjustment..................:0 AUTO
    Trd2rd(Different Rank)....................:6 AUTO
    Twr2wr(Different Rank)...................:6 AUTO
    wr2rd(Different Rank)...................:5 AUTO
    rd2wr(Same/Diff Rank)..................:8 AUTO

    Dimm1 Clock Skew Control...............:Auto ps
    Dimm2 Clock Skew Control...............:Auto ps

    Motherboard Voltage Control
    Voltage Type.………... Manual
    CPU
    CPU Vcore….……….........................:1.40000 << May need more depends on your chip and it sounds like it does to me

    CPUTermination.…..... 1.200V*.......: 1.25-1.45
    CPU PLL…………………....1.500V*.......: <<< Set to what you see as stock
    CPU Referen.…………....0.755V*.......: AUTO
    CPU Reference2………,,0.800V*.......: AUTO

    MCH/ICH
    MCH Core…………….....1.100V...........: 1.26-1.3
    MCH Reference….…….0.800V...........: AUTO
    MCH/DRAM Ref.…......0.900V...........: 1.000
    ICH I/O……………….....1.550V............: AUTO

    DRAM
    DRAM Voltage ……....1.800V............: 2.100
    DRAM Termination .…0.900V............: AUTO
    Channel A Reference 0.900V............: AUTO
    Channel B Reference 0.900V............: AUTO

    Advanced Settings
    Limit CPUID Max. to 3.....................: [Disabled]
    No-Execute Memory Protect............: [Enabled]
    CPU Enhanced Halt (C1E)................: [Disabled]
    CPU Thermal Monitor 2(TM2) ...........: [Enabled]
    CPU EIST Function.........................: [Disabled]
    Virtualization Technology................: [Disabled]

  3. #3
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    Default Re: I hit the wall at 3.0GHz w/EP45DS3R/Q6600

    Hey Lsdmeasap.

    One new twist...

    I am trying to up the Vcore value, but no matter what I set in BIOS (I've tried high and lower multiple times 1.16V-1.50V), when I boot up, CPUID (CPU-Z) shows a voltage of only 1.28V and then it goes down to 1.26ish from there under load.

    I can't get prime 95 to run at all and I'm getting a BSOD every time I try prime95 and this is at 333x9

    I have confirmed Vcore at 1.28 (1.45in BIOS) on Speedfan. Speed fan also shows the following voltages on these rails...

    +12V.........+1.90 - +2.00V
    -12V.........-16.64
    -5V..........-8.48

    All others look on spec...

    Bad PS??? I don'r have another computer to compare it to. This may be a root problem...

  4. #4
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    Default Re: I hit the wall at 3.0GHz w/EP45DS3R/Q6600

    Well...voltage problems seems to be solved. Now I'm into uncharted terrirory.

    I am running the Prime 95 torture test. So far, I am not stable and working Vcore back up to get stability.

    The difference this time is that up til now, Core #0 always failed first. Now it is somewhat random, 3 of the 4 cores have seen a problem at one point or another, This leads me to either a NB issue (MCH is 1.3V), or some other memory timing issue.

    A couple of the values Lsdmeasap gave were ranges, It would be helpful to know specifically what each value controls or associates with other values to make a more informed decision on what to tweak next

    Is there a detailed layout of what all these values are on the forum???

    Oh hell, just tell me the next step! Ha!

  5. #5
    Lsdmeasap's Avatar
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    Default Re: I hit the wall at 3.0GHz w/EP45DS3R/Q6600

    Yes, all values are explained in the two guides I posted about overclocking and ram.
    http://forums.tweaktown.com/f69/giga...g-guide-26112/

    http://forums.tweaktown.com/f69/memo...vs-bios-27283/

    What did you do to solve your voltage issue? Sounds like you need more vcore since prime is failing. You do have your ram memtest86+ stable right? If not you should do that first as if not you will never know what is causing prime to fail

  6. #6
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    Default Re: I hit the wall at 3.0GHz w/EP45DS3R/Q6600

    Lsdmeasap:

    Voltage issue took care of its self really. I can not pinpoint what exactly happened to correct the issue. Again, it way be the way windows "sees" things.

    At this point, I have Vcore set to 1.50000 in BIOS. This equates to a Vcore in CPU-Z of 1.42 that varies between 1.39xx and 1.42xx under load. I actually happy with that.

    I had P95 running for about an hour 2 separate times last night for just under an hour. No BSOD, just cores would shut down. I am pretty sure that it was due to temps as they were getting into the 73-74 range (yeah I'm playing with fire!) as the over temperature throttle back setting is "on".

    I'm actually alright with these voltages/temps as the video editing is the most stressful app I'll actually run, and the temps were high 50's with the video renderer going full out. I am looking at improving the cooler/airflow at some point for "insurance" purposes.

    I'll read these forums today to see what more can be done. Thanks for the help.

    Just for giggles what settings do you recommend for 3.6 GHz. I'd probably just set 400x9 and tweek memory timings, but you have a different (and more successful) take on these things.

    As far as mem86, no I have not run that on the new memory. I may save this for trying to get to 3.6 GHz, althought I have my doubts about this particular chip I have (VID is 1.325 so not alot of headroom).

    Again, 3.2 and stable is pretty good for me. To get that speed from a stock Quad, I was looking at $1000 chip. I have the whole system for that.

    Again, thank you for your time and expertise!

    dtfeld

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    Default Re: I hit the wall at 3.0GHz w/EP45DS3R/Q6600

    Driving strength Profiles............ 800-1066 (1066 may work best) If you do not see you need to update the BIOS. Or Press Control + F1 on the MAIN page of the BIOS and then go into MIT and you should see it. If not you have a much older BIOS and should update


    What is this doing?...just reread other forums, this not mentioned. Not in any of the Gigabyte literature I have...I'll look online as well.

    DT

  8. #8
    Lsdmeasap's Avatar
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    Default Re: I hit the wall at 3.0GHz w/EP45DS3R/Q6600

    Ya that is normal to set 1.5 and get 1.4x idle and 1.4x load as this is a design by Intel to save processors from damage.

    Some 65nm CPU's need ALOT of volts, I had to use 1.425-1.43 Actual not set in BIOS for my Dual core 65nm CPU. So depending on your speed you are running now you may need more volts still to be stable as you are not if prime is shutting down. The temps are not high enough to shut it down so it is a voltage failure.

    Sounds like you need a better cooler for sure! And yeah you are right, not much you will do with your system is going to push it anywhere near what a stress program will.

    You can use up to 1.5 actual voltage with that CPU as long as your temps are ok, so you would be fine for 3.4-3.6 once you get a better cooler

    Getting your ram stable before you use Prime is a important thing at any ram or CPU Speed. As if you do not know if your ram is stable you will never know what is causing prime to fail.

    My time? Ahh, thanks for your kind words! I am here to help when I am around for sure!

    Driving strength, I am not sure! And yeah it is not found anywhere in anything I have seen. I can say some of the newer BIOS's do not have it hidden, and all the advanced RAM timings as well as this and two other pages of ram settings are on their own separate page now.

    I can say, there is other options to this Setting and they can be changed within the actual BIOS file >>>

    Last edited by Lsdmeasap; 10-31-2008 at 01:53 PM.

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    Default Re: I hit the wall at 3.0GHz w/EP45DS3R/Q6600

    Hey LSDMEASAP...

    Just getting around to running memtest86+ 2.01. I thought I'd throttle back a little bit to a 3.0 GHz (333x9) settings and test the new memory before proceeding.

    I watched the whole first pass, no errors reported, then walked away. I came back, but now show errors (I suspect the computer crashed and restarted but can not comfirm).

    What I have showing now is this; Failures on 1st pass - test 7, then on 2nd pass - test 5 and 7. Running about 2.5 hours, 13 errors to date.

    Question...How to interpret results. I see alot of post about running the program, but not a whole lot of specifics about what test results indicate as there is a lot of data presented (on this site and others).

    Do you have a suggested settings for a 3.00 GHz setup?

    Is heat a possible issue? I have heat sinks on the mem and they are factory 2.1v. How about on the NB?

    Where to start? Voltages, timings? I think being able to interpret the data from MEM86+ would get me started.

  10. #10
    Lsdmeasap's Avatar
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    Default Re: I hit the wall at 3.0GHz w/EP45DS3R/Q6600

    There is no specific way to interpret the errors. Only a error is a error and that is that.

    Test #5 and 7 are the MOST stressful so if those are the only ones that fail it sounds like you almost have it good.

    It could have been timings, or voltages. I am not sure since you did not post me your exact settings you tried.

    So please do post me exactly what you are using for 3Ghz testing and I will advise back to you about maybe why you had errors, and how to fix it

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