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Thread: GA-MA78GM-S2H ver 1.1 ~ First Build Challenges




  1. #11
    Lsdmeasap's Avatar
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    Default Re: GA-MA78GM-S2H ver 1.1 ~ First Build Challenges

    Will it work properly outside of the case, off the tray on a box or wooden table with ONLY the CPU/Heatsink, One stick of ram, and your GFX card? NOTHING Else connected just those three items mentioned

    If so you likely have a piece of bad hardware, you will have to connect things one at a time outside of the case still until you find the culprit

  2. #12
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    Default Re: GA-MA78GM-S2H ver 1.1 ~ First Build Challenges

    For graphics, the system relies on the mobo's 780G chipset with its integrated HD3200 GPU. I intend to see how well that does, and to then buy a graphics card if needed.

    Yes, I shall try an out-of-case setup when I remove things today. The big heatsink prevents the PSU being taken out by itself, anyway. I might as well take it all apart, try your idea, and then take both the PSU and the mobo to NCIX.

    I'll ask them to check the PSU (for free, I hope) and, if it's okay, I'll see about RMAing the mobo. If they are willing to do that.

    But I'm doing this somewhat slowly, hoping some new solution will come out of the blue.
    AMD Athlon 64 x2 5600+
    Gigabyte AM2+ GA-MA78GM-S2H ver 1.1. BIOS (newest) F11
    NB: AMD780G. SB: AMD SB700
    RAM 8GB (2 kits @ 4GB each) G.Skill DDR2-1000 (F2-8000CL5D-4GBPQ PC2-8000 x2 CL5-5-5-15) running as DDR2-800
    Case Antec P150
    PSU Corsair HX520W. (PSU calc by Corsair + NCIX; tested by TT Dr Power.)
    Cooling Xigmatek HDT-S1283 heatsink (Arctic Silver 5); 6 fans
    HDDs usable 1.7 TB (4 Seagates—3x 500GB SATA ST3500320AS w/SD1A + 1x 320GB PATA ST3320620A)
    Floppy
    Opticals (3): Pioneer SATA DVR-212D; LiteOn/Sony PATA CRX230AE; external USB Samsung SE-S204S DVD Writer
    Video ATI Radeon HD4670
    Monitor 22" LG W2242TQ w/Belkin DVI-D
    Sound Altec Lansing 5.1
    Mouses (2) Logi MX620 + Logi V220
    KB Simple Perfection backlit USB
    XP64
    No gaming; heavy simultaneous use of big programs
    System built Nov 2008




  3. #13
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    Default Re: GA-MA78GM-S2H ver 1.1 ~ First Build Challenges

    This afternoon I took the 35-pound system to NCIX, which is a few miles from here. The technician there tested the PSU = OK, looked at everything, checked the RAM. Everything looked OK to him.

    So he asked me to remove the motherboard (on the spot!) and he got a brand new replacement of the same make and model of mobo. Assembled outside the case; and it POSTed.

    He repeated it three times.

    Then I mounted the replacement mobo in the case and he tested it one more time. The POST was OK.

    BUT--it doesn't end there. The rear case fan was not working. Now, that fan was not working with the bad mobo, either. But the CPU fan WAS working. Both are attached to the mobo.

    The fan not working was a 120mm 4-pin fan I took from the Xigmatek HDT-S1283 heatsink when I replaced it with a Scythe fan. I simply thought the Xig fan was better than the stock Antec case fan.

    These are all 120mm fans. So, originally: Case = Antec. Heatsink/fan = Xigmatek.
    — Replace heatsink fan with a new Scythe.
    — That leaves you with a spare Xig fan. Hm. It looks better than the Antec.
    — Replace Antec case fan (3-pin) with Xig (4-pin).

    The tiny system fan plug on the mobo takes a 4-pin, so that was another reason I thought it would be better. On the other hand, the Scythe that I put on the heatsink is 3-pin, so you have:

    Fan Connectors, originally:
    — CPU fan WAS 4-pin Xigmatek, is now 3-pin Scythe. Receptor on mobo allows 4 pins.
    — Rear case fan WAS 3-pin Antec, is now 4-pin Xig. Receptor on mobo allows 4 pins.

    Do you think the Xig fan was originally the culprit that caused the first mobo to stop working? The fan tries to start, and the blades tremble a bit. Or do you think because it has the 4th pin, the system is choosing not to start it ?—the temperature would not have been above room temperature.

    I just don't want anything to happen to my new motherboard.

    Thank you.
    AMD Athlon 64 x2 5600+
    Gigabyte AM2+ GA-MA78GM-S2H ver 1.1. BIOS (newest) F11
    NB: AMD780G. SB: AMD SB700
    RAM 8GB (2 kits @ 4GB each) G.Skill DDR2-1000 (F2-8000CL5D-4GBPQ PC2-8000 x2 CL5-5-5-15) running as DDR2-800
    Case Antec P150
    PSU Corsair HX520W. (PSU calc by Corsair + NCIX; tested by TT Dr Power.)
    Cooling Xigmatek HDT-S1283 heatsink (Arctic Silver 5); 6 fans
    HDDs usable 1.7 TB (4 Seagates—3x 500GB SATA ST3500320AS w/SD1A + 1x 320GB PATA ST3320620A)
    Floppy
    Opticals (3): Pioneer SATA DVR-212D; LiteOn/Sony PATA CRX230AE; external USB Samsung SE-S204S DVD Writer
    Video ATI Radeon HD4670
    Monitor 22" LG W2242TQ w/Belkin DVI-D
    Sound Altec Lansing 5.1
    Mouses (2) Logi MX620 + Logi V220
    KB Simple Perfection backlit USB
    XP64
    No gaming; heavy simultaneous use of big programs
    System built Nov 2008




  4. #14
    Lsdmeasap's Avatar
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    Default Re: GA-MA78GM-S2H ver 1.1 ~ First Build Challenges

    PWM fans often only come on at certain temps if you have smart fan control enabled and set to PWM, you can set it to voltage and they should always run full speed.

    So your new board is all working correct now at home then? If so great to hear it!

  5. #15
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    Smile Re: GA-MA78GM-S2H ver 1.1 ~ First Build Challenges

    Yes, and many thanks for your help.

    Today is Friday, and I hope to get things set up.

    I intend to do as little in the BIOS as I can, to get things going. But yesterday the tech fellow mentioned that I have to set SOME things in the BIOS before installing Windows. I'll do the minimum at first.

    My skills are with Windows OS and software, and once I'm there, I'm confident and i know what I'm doing—partitioning and programs, with nice configs.

    Once I have Windows on, I'll be home free, and then I can more easily go BACK into the BIOS and tweak it more thoroughly.

    —Hmm. But that just reflects my "certainty" that I had messed up the BIOS last Monday. Yesterday's results did not bear that out. Two BIOS-savvy people have told me that I could not possibly have done any damage with the settings that I chose in the BIOS.

    Okay, put it this way: the motherboard scares me. This is version 1.1, and if NCIX had had a version 2 there (they didn't), I'd have upgraded. This is a very very nice mobo, but I won't feel secure with it for about a week. Then I'll relax.

    It was a real joke yesterday, when I was watching the tech guy working on the system. FAST! I have to be SO careful, because I don't know the boundaries. He knew exactly what he could/couldn't do—how much force to use (I'm too careful), and also he could touch ANYTHING because the work surface at NCIX is somehow antistatic. No wrist-straps or gloves are needed.

    —He told me about re-using Arctic Silver: when it has just been applied awhile before, there is no need to redo the job; you can take apart the CPU/heatsink and just put them back together again. He also said my own Arctic Silver application was just fine, so it was good to find that out.

    Plus the RAM was okay, and okay for the system. No worries there.

    So I've learned a lot. Computers are like that. Something goes wrong, and it feels so BAD. Later on, you realize that your knowledge came more slowly when things were going RIGHT—you learned the most during your "catastrophes".

    Thanks again for all your help, Lsdmeasap, VorLonUK, et al.
    AMD Athlon 64 x2 5600+
    Gigabyte AM2+ GA-MA78GM-S2H ver 1.1. BIOS (newest) F11
    NB: AMD780G. SB: AMD SB700
    RAM 8GB (2 kits @ 4GB each) G.Skill DDR2-1000 (F2-8000CL5D-4GBPQ PC2-8000 x2 CL5-5-5-15) running as DDR2-800
    Case Antec P150
    PSU Corsair HX520W. (PSU calc by Corsair + NCIX; tested by TT Dr Power.)
    Cooling Xigmatek HDT-S1283 heatsink (Arctic Silver 5); 6 fans
    HDDs usable 1.7 TB (4 Seagates—3x 500GB SATA ST3500320AS w/SD1A + 1x 320GB PATA ST3320620A)
    Floppy
    Opticals (3): Pioneer SATA DVR-212D; LiteOn/Sony PATA CRX230AE; external USB Samsung SE-S204S DVD Writer
    Video ATI Radeon HD4670
    Monitor 22" LG W2242TQ w/Belkin DVI-D
    Sound Altec Lansing 5.1
    Mouses (2) Logi MX620 + Logi V220
    KB Simple Perfection backlit USB
    XP64
    No gaming; heavy simultaneous use of big programs
    System built Nov 2008




  6. #16
    Lsdmeasap's Avatar
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    Default Re: GA-MA78GM-S2H ver 1.1 ~ First Build Challenges

    Ahh you will get used to things and be quicker soon! They likely have a anti-static mat is why he did not use any straps or anything. You can buy one, if you like me to find you one let me know and I will.

    His arctic silver comment is for sure dead wrong!!! If you re-use or re-seat a heatsink that already has paste on it it will trap air inside there and for sure cause added heat! I cannot believe that came from a NCIX persons mouth! For sure always redo your paste if you remove a heatsink!!!!

    Well, good luck getting all setup and installed. If you do run into issue for sure stop back in and we will try to help!

    Thanks for your kind words as well, and wish you the easiest setup as you try to learn more about your BIOS

  7. #17
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    Default Re: GA-MA78GM-S2H ver 1.1 ~ First Build Challenges

    Hmmm.

    Interesting about the Arctic Silver. Well, what he said was that in this case, the system had not run long enough for the Arctic Silver to do anything at all except just sit there—and it did look like that; just as it had looked when I put it on in the first place, only more squashed and tacky from having the heatsink pulled off the CPU.

    He said the situation took quite awhile to become crucial—"if you'd been running it for a year"—but he obviously meant "for a long time" rather than a cut-off date of 365 days.

    The Arctic Silver company itself does emphasize that the stuff doesn't "DO" anything except provide a microscopic seal. The company explains the folly of a fingerprint. And of course that might well go along with your concern about trapped air.

    I took that heatsink and CPU apart three times in making this build, and the tech took them apart a fourth time. Perhaps I'll round it out as five times, just to be on the safe side!

    At least I've gained some idea of how the Arctic Silver looks after the fact. If a person never took his work apart, he'd be left with the same quandary as the lamp inside the refrigerator. It DOES go off when you shut the door, and it stays off, right?—the only way to check is to open the door! And the only way to check your Arctic Silver is to undo your good work!

    No problem.

    Thanks for all.
    AMD Athlon 64 x2 5600+
    Gigabyte AM2+ GA-MA78GM-S2H ver 1.1. BIOS (newest) F11
    NB: AMD780G. SB: AMD SB700
    RAM 8GB (2 kits @ 4GB each) G.Skill DDR2-1000 (F2-8000CL5D-4GBPQ PC2-8000 x2 CL5-5-5-15) running as DDR2-800
    Case Antec P150
    PSU Corsair HX520W. (PSU calc by Corsair + NCIX; tested by TT Dr Power.)
    Cooling Xigmatek HDT-S1283 heatsink (Arctic Silver 5); 6 fans
    HDDs usable 1.7 TB (4 Seagates—3x 500GB SATA ST3500320AS w/SD1A + 1x 320GB PATA ST3320620A)
    Floppy
    Opticals (3): Pioneer SATA DVR-212D; LiteOn/Sony PATA CRX230AE; external USB Samsung SE-S204S DVD Writer
    Video ATI Radeon HD4670
    Monitor 22" LG W2242TQ w/Belkin DVI-D
    Sound Altec Lansing 5.1
    Mouses (2) Logi MX620 + Logi V220
    KB Simple Perfection backlit USB
    XP64
    No gaming; heavy simultaneous use of big programs
    System built Nov 2008




  8. #18
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    Default Re: GA-MA78GM-S2H ver 1.1 ~ First Build Challenges

    Arctic silver only really becomes unusable once it has "set" through temperature and time. You can note that by the difficulty of getting the HSF off - as it almost sticks like glue.

    But to be honest, the articles that have appeared on the Net about any thermal compound have gone way over the top. Usually most thermal compounds (paste type) are fairly flexible and that can bee seen by the large lumps that Graphics card manufacturers drop on to the GPU.

    I worked as a bench engineer for a 15 year or so period, working mainly on Hifi and Video. I very rarely spread the thermal paste out thinly etc on power transistors, or power IC's and usually left a ball of it under t03 type transistors or a lump under power Ic's. I used to rely on the excess to be squeezed out when the devices were properly attached, usually via screws.
    I have also been known to scoop up some of the surplus compound left during manufacture and use that on it's subsequent repair!
    I never had any repairs returned in connection with a heat problem/ thermal compound issue.

    Also the Graphics card manufacturers use a measured amount of compound, usually a surplus, as you find a lot of the surplus Compound has vacated the core area and gone elsewhere once the HSF has been fitted to the GPU core.

    Too much is made of the way thermal compound should and shouldn't be applied by sources on the net. Of course far too much is as bad as far too little, but a varying layer is fine. Also because there is a fair amount of manipulation and man handling of the HSF to get it attached to the board and core, any excess soon gets pushed to outside the core area.

    Everyone has their experiences, but if the AS5 was still malleable when he took the HSF off then I would say you could get away with using it again.
    Last edited by VorLonUK; 11-30-2008 at 09:58 PM.
    GA-P35C-DS3R Rev2.0 F11 bios, E8200 (@3.0Ghz), OCZ DDR3 PC3-10666 Reaper 4GB (@1200Mhz), Xonar D1, 8800GTS 512, Corsair HX520 (Single 12volt line, Max 40A), WDC 3200aaks/5000aaks in AHCI mode, Vista 64 Premium.

  9. #19
    Lsdmeasap's Avatar
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    Default Re: GA-MA78GM-S2H ver 1.1 ~ First Build Challenges

    I Would still suggest against a re-use no matter the age of th material due to Air being trapped in the spaces now left open as you reinstall the heatsink with the valleys and crevices it makes when you pull it off. Here is a thread I found which similar is stated >>
    Thermal paste reusing - Overclock.net - Overclocking.net

    This is a quote from the old Arctic Silver site before they revamped it >>>
    DO NOT REMOVE THE HEATSINK FROM THE CPU TO LOOK AT THE COMPOUND ONCE YOU HAVE MOUNTED THE HEATSINK. This will introduce air into the interface layer and require a fresh application
    I did know a good thread with some tests but I cannot find it now

  10. #20
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    Talking Re: GA-MA78GM-S2H ver 1.1 ~ First Build Challenges

    It is a real honour to be the catalyst for two main voices of the forum to be in opposition over a technical point.

    For the past few days I've been making my XP 64 better and better, as that is my home territory—setting up partitions, the OS, and myriad software programs.

    But I made one early mistake. I ran RegSeeker on 64-bit XP, which is lethal. I've run RegSeeker a zillion times in 32-bit, both in XP and Vista. It can kill XP 64, however, and I had to reformat the drive. That was no problem, but I wasted about 8 hours' of concentrated work. Then, mistaking the cause, I went for an XP install BEFORE moving to AHCI, so I must now do the AHCI thing carefully. I don't really need it, but it is there, so I feel I'd better climb it.

    Then, back to the Arctic Silver situation. Within a few days I'll take things apart one more time, clean and replace the Arctic Silver, and finally put the front panel on the case. This doesn't need to be done, but it neatly satisfies the situation: from one point of view it is a good thing to do, and from the other point of view it is merely a minor waste of time.

    I haven't done much with the BIOS yet. Of course this Athlon x2 5600+ will use my DDR2-1000 RAM as though it were 800. That's okay because I bought it (all 8GB from NCIX for a sale-priced $200) with the idea of maybe upgrading to a Phenom in 2009—maybe.

    That's where things are now. I'm very very happy with this first build. It took me 9 months to build it—buying things one at a time for good sale prices, and studying, reading, and learning everything I could along the way.

    Right up to the latest opinions regarding Arctic Silver, and Holes therein.

    Thanks for everything, both of you. I'll report back again.
    AMD Athlon 64 x2 5600+
    Gigabyte AM2+ GA-MA78GM-S2H ver 1.1. BIOS (newest) F11
    NB: AMD780G. SB: AMD SB700
    RAM 8GB (2 kits @ 4GB each) G.Skill DDR2-1000 (F2-8000CL5D-4GBPQ PC2-8000 x2 CL5-5-5-15) running as DDR2-800
    Case Antec P150
    PSU Corsair HX520W. (PSU calc by Corsair + NCIX; tested by TT Dr Power.)
    Cooling Xigmatek HDT-S1283 heatsink (Arctic Silver 5); 6 fans
    HDDs usable 1.7 TB (4 Seagates—3x 500GB SATA ST3500320AS w/SD1A + 1x 320GB PATA ST3320620A)
    Floppy
    Opticals (3): Pioneer SATA DVR-212D; LiteOn/Sony PATA CRX230AE; external USB Samsung SE-S204S DVD Writer
    Video ATI Radeon HD4670
    Monitor 22" LG W2242TQ w/Belkin DVI-D
    Sound Altec Lansing 5.1
    Mouses (2) Logi MX620 + Logi V220
    KB Simple Perfection backlit USB
    XP64
    No gaming; heavy simultaneous use of big programs
    System built Nov 2008




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