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Thread: OC basics: E8400, GA-EP45-DS3L, PC-6400




  1. #1
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    Default OC basics: E8400, GA-EP45-DS3L, PC-6400

    I donít know much about this oc thing. My goal is to achieve a modest oc without decreasing the life of the hardware or having to constantly worry about it. I thought I could just up the FSB and be done, until I read in another post that this is not the best thing to do. So Iím here asking for help.

    EarthWatts 650w PSU <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
    GA-EP45-DS3L <o:p></o:p>
    E8400 3.0Ghz <o:p></o:p>
    OCZ 4GB (2x2048) PC-6400 - OCZ Technology | Products | Memory | OCZ DDR2 PC2-6400 SLI-Ready Edition 4GB Dual Channel <o:p></o:p>
    Arctic cooling freezer 7 pro CPU cooler <o:p></o:p>
    PCI RADEON 7000 64 MB Ė (obviously not a gamer)

    BIOS settings:
    all defaults right now, until I get some advice on where to start?
    <o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    It seems like the bios has a lot of built in stuff for ramping up only when you need it, and ramping back down when idling. (Performance Enhance, CIA2, Ö) The board is even supposed to have this dynamic energy saver thing built in. The question is do we bypass all this stuff to oc?
    <o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    What would be a respectable temp range while OCing, idle and load, for the CPU reported by the BIOS/speedfan?

    Thanks for any help<o:p></o:p>

  2. #2
    Chucko is offline Member
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    Default Re: OC basics: E8400, GA-EP45-DS3L, PC-6400

    That's a pretty decent setup. You should get some good results.

    This is a VERY general guide. There's lots of detailed info here if you search. Also check other forums like OCForums, OverclockersClub, XtremeSystems, etc.

    My approach has been to set most of the controls manually. In particular stay away from the CIA2!

    First things first. Test everything at specified settings (i.e. Auto or Normal everything, CIA2 off). Make sure all the parts work before you break them. ;)

    Next you should find the maximum FSB the CPU and MCH will support. Go into the Advanced BIOS settings and turn off EIST (SpeedStep). Then go into the M.I.T page and set the CPU clock control to Manual and the clock multiplier to 6X (or as low as your CPU supports). Further down set the RAM timing to defaults and specify the MCH strap for 2.00D - this ensures you will not be pushing the memory beyond its limits while you crank up the FSB. Set the PCIE clock to 100 MHz and leave it there! Finally, manually set the CPU, MCH, and RAM voltages to their specified settings.

    Now you can start adjusting the FSB frequency up from the stock 333 MHz. Go in small increments and run a memory test (Memtest86+) at each step. How long you run the test is up to you, but I suggest at least 30 minutes per step. When Memtest fails - and it will eventually - find the right combination of voltage boosts (CPU term, MCH core, CPU core) to get it stable again. You may also need to play around with clock delays and GTL reference voltages - this is tricky stuff that I haven't mastered yet.

    If you exceed 400 MHz on the FSB, you'll have to start playing games with the memory timing and voltage, and maybe even buy some 1066 MHz rated RAM. Lsdmeasap is the master of this stuff.

    Once you find a comfortably stable FSB speed, then you can manually increase the CPU multiplier 1x at a time. Run Memtest first for safety's sake, then a CPU torture test (I prefer something based on the Intel Linpack benchmarks) for a while to ensure stability and reasonable core temps at each step. When it fails, bump the CPU core voltage and try again. Stop when you can't make it go any faster, the voltages get high enough to scare you, load temps get high enough to fry eggs on the HSF, or you burn something out!

    Now if you haven't hit the limit on the multiplier, dial the FSB down and the multiplier up so that the CPU core speed is at the last stable combination but the FSB is well below its limit. Now crank the FSB up again, a little at a time and bumping the core voltage as needed, until you find the max stable CPU core speed.

    You may find the CPU runs faster at the highest multiplier and a bus speed below the max. Each program has different needs. Check multiple combinations and be sure to run long torture tests (24 hrs or more) to ensure stability before you settle on a 24/7 setup. Remember that a high multiplier stresses the CPU, but a high bus speed stresses everything else in the system.

    IMHO idle temp is irrelevant except as a baseline. In any decent system it should be within a few degrees of room temperature. Don't worry unless your idle CPU core temps exceed 35 C or so at typical room temperatures around 70 F. High idle temps tell you you've got the CPU cooler installed wrong, or that the case can't exhaust hot air fast enough. Fix these problems before you start OC'ing or you will fry parts!

    The most critical temps are the CPU core temps under load. I prefer to keep them below 60C in balls-to-the-walls Linpack torture testing, but you can probably go as high as 80C for brief periods of torture testing. This ensures you'll have lots of breathing room playing games, transcoding video, folding proteins, or whatever in the summer heat.

    Hope this helps!

  3. #3
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    Default Re: OC basics: E8400, GA-EP45-DS3L, PC-6400

    Thanks for all the info, a lot to absorb. Now of course I have specific questions on getting started.
    Further down set the RAM timing to defaults
    Does this mean you want me to take these off auto and put in some numbers, what numbers, the ones next to auto when loading optimized defaults?
    >>>>> Standard Timing Control
    CAS Latency Time...[Auto]
    tRCD...[Auto]
    tRP...[Auto]
    tRAS...[Auto]
    specify the MCH strap for 2.00D
    "(G)MCH Frequency Latch" from [Auto] to 200MHz?
    Set the PCIE clock to 100 MHz
    "PCI Express Frequency (Mhz)" to 100Mhz ?
    manually set the CPU, MCH, and RAM voltages to their specified settings
    Take all these off auto and put numbers in, what numbers, the ones next to auto when loading optimized defaults?
    CPU Vcore
    CPU Termination
    CPU PLL
    CPU Reference
    MCH Core
    MCH Reference
    ICH I/O
    DRAM Voltage

    Thanks for the help

  4. #4
    Chucko is offline Member
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    Default Re: OC basics: E8400, GA-EP45-DS3L, PC-6400

    Quote Originally Posted by investor70
    Does this mean you want me to take these off auto and put in some numbers, what numbers, the ones next to auto when loading optimized defaults?
    >>>>> Standard Timing Control
    CAS Latency Time...[Auto]
    tRCD...[Auto]
    tRP...[Auto]
    tRAS...[Auto]
    Yes, the numbers in the left hand column come from the RAM's Serial Presence Detect (SPD) EEPROM, so they're a good starting point.

    "(G)MCH Frequency Latch" from [Auto] to 200MHz?
    No. Sorry, I skipped a step. You'll want to set (G)MCH Frequency Latch to either 400. Then switch the multiplier to 2.00D.

    "PCI Express Frequency (Mhz)" to 100Mhz ?
    Correct.

    Take all these off auto and put numbers in, what numbers, the ones next to auto when loading optimized defaults?
    CPU Vcore
    CPU Termination
    CPU PLL
    CPU Reference
    MCH Core
    MCH Reference
    ICH I/O
    DRAM Voltage
    Yes, the numbers in the left column are the standard voltages. Set these as a starting point. I have found that the BIOS sometimes gets overly aggressive with the voltage settings on Auto.

    Thanks for the help
    You're welcome! Have fun, and don't let the magic smoke out.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: OC basics: E8400, GA-EP45-DS3L, PC-6400

    Ok here is where Iím at. I was able to get the FSB to 450 and run memtest86+ thru two full passes, about 40 mins. I didnít want to push it any further until I tested some other things. I then started bumping up the CPU multiplier one step at a time, when I got to 9 windows xp pro wouldnít start. I then moved the FSB back to 440 and windows came up. Memtest still ran for 40mins @ 9x440. Of course now prime will make windows reboot after about 3mins.
    Code:
     
    >CPU Host Frequency (Mhz) 440
    >PCI Express Frequency (Mhz) 100Mhz
    >Performance Enhance [Turbo] 
    >(G)MCH Frequency Latch 400
    >System Memory Multiplier (SPD) 2.00D
    >CAS Latency Time 5
    >tRCD 4
    >tRP 4
    >tRAS 15
    >CPU Vcore 1.25
    >CPU Termination 1.2
    >CPU PLL 1.55
    >CPU Reference 0.805
    >-------MCH/ICH--------- 
    >MCH Core 1.1
    >MCH Reference 0.76
    >ICH I/O 1.55
    >-------DRAM--------- 
    >DRAM Voltage 1.8
    What do I try next?

  6. #6
    Chucko is offline Member
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    Default Re: OC basics: E8400, GA-EP45-DS3L, PC-6400

    Nice results so far! Maybe I should be playing with dual cores instead of quads!

    You said you could boot into Windows at 9x440 with those settings? Try adding some (more?) CPU core voltage. I don't know what the limit is for the 45nm CPUs. Go easy and add just enough to get it stable. It's very encouraging that you are able to run Memtest with a 450MHz FSB and no extra voltage on the DRAM or MCH. You may well be able to get it stable at 9x450.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: OC basics: E8400, GA-EP45-DS3L, PC-6400

    Quote Originally Posted by Chucko View Post
    Nice results so far! Maybe I should be playing with dual cores instead of quads!

    You said you could boot into Windows at 9x440 with those settings? Try adding some (more?) CPU core voltage. I don't know what the limit is for the 45nm CPUs. Go easy and add just enough to get it stable. It's very encouraging that you are able to run Memtest with a 450MHz FSB and no extra voltage on the DRAM or MCH. You may well be able to get it stable at 9x450.
    He is right, your going to need more Vcore, had my e8500 up to 4.23ghz (470x9) on my EP45-UD3R at 1.375v in the bios, 1.31v load in XP (vdroop). I have read anything below 1.4v your okay on the 45nm. I would try 1.300v first and move up from there running either prime95,orthos, or occt to check stability and try and keep temps under 60c, mine were at 50c load with the above specs (XIGMATEK HDT-S1284 heatsink). Also the changes below are recommended

    MCH Core - 1.200 (1.100v default)
    ICH Core - 1.200 (1.100v default)

    I am fairly new to overclocking too an have been using this post as a guide. http://forums.tweaktown.com/f69/gigabyte-x38-p35-p965-ds-dq-s3-overclocking-general-bios-tweaking-guide-26112/

  8. #8
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    Default Re: OC basics: E8400, GA-EP45-DS3L, PC-6400

    I can bring up windows and run orthos for a few minutes without it failing with these settings. 440fsb, 1.28125vCore or 450fsb, 1.325vCore
    Is the extra vCore safe and worth the small gain?
    Why MCH Core?
    What is ICH Core?
    I have an ICH I/O (1.55 default)?
    Last edited by investor70; 01-19-2009 at 05:41 AM.

  9. #9
    Chucko is offline Member
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    Default Re: OC basics: E8400, GA-EP45-DS3L, PC-6400

    Sorry I didn't respond sooner, I've been getting my own computer set up.

    If you need to boost the CPU core that much to get an extra 10 MHz of FSB, you've pretty much hit the wall IMHO. You may want to look at raising Vtt (CPU termination) or MCH core instead.

    CPU core voltage affects the logic at the heart of the CPU and the translation down to FSB speeds.

    Vtt directly controls FSB performance and supplies both the CPU and MCH. Sometimes an increase in voltage here can let you get a little more FSB speed.

    The MCH (Memory Controller Hub, a.k.a. Northbridge) is where the interfacing between the CPU, DRAM, PCIe graphics, and ICH happens. There is a lot going on here because data rates on the FSB are often much higher than the DRAM interface, so the MCH has to shuffle data to keep all the parts happy. So MCH core voltage is a crucial tool for making the memory interface work correctly.

    DRAM voltage directly controls the performance of the DRAM (of course) and indirectly the RAM interface side of the MCH.

    These are the primary voltages that you should be tweaking for an overclock. You also have the GTL reference voltages (CPU Reference and MCH Reference), which you can tweak to make the FSB more stable at the hairy edge, and the DRAM references, same deal for the DRAM. They control how the chips determine a 1 from a 0. These are made available for experts to fool with to eke out the last drop of performance from a system.

    ICH = Input/output Controller Hub. This is the chip that handles the PCIe x1 slots, SATA, and USB among others. It is more commonly known as the Southbridge. If you leave the PCIe frequency at 100 MHZ, IMHO you should never have to touch ICH core voltage.

    Beyond that general info, I'm not an expert, so maybe someone else should chime in.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: OC basics: E8400, GA-EP45-DS3L, PC-6400

    I tried to get up to 450 with less vcore, 1.28, and then played with CPU termination up to 1.24, MCH core up to 1.2, and DRAM voltage up to 2.0. I tried every combination of these with no luck. Without understanding how each one affects the other or how high I can safely go with each, I think Iím done at 440, which Iím plenty happy with. Just up the FSB, add a little vcore, easy straight forward, safe, thanks for all the help.

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