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Thread: Help understanding GA-EP45-UD3R BIOS settings & Core2 FSB OC principles




  1. #11
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    Default Re: Help understanding GA-EP45-UD3R BIOS settings & Core2 FSB OC principles

    The memory bandwidth benchmark is synthetic, improvement doesn't matter unless you get some actual performance improvement in a real application. Try benching with Crysis (demo) or even 3DMark, which is also synthetic but a lot less synthetic/closer to reality than Sandra or Everest.
    You may need to increase CPU termination to get it stable and further increase VCore. Don't look at the BIOS setting of Vcore though, just look at the result in CPU-Z, You can also compare that to your VID (stock voltage) as shown by Core Temp.


  2. #12
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    Lightbulb Re: Help understanding GA-EP45-UD3R BIOS settings & Core2 FSB OC principles

    Hi!

    I think you are trying to achive your performance the same way as me (little CPU overclock, but as much memory performance as possible). Althought I am new in this OC scene, and have somehow different problems because of very small stock FSB (E5200/200MHz) I can show you some really helpful guides in my own thread (if you are familiar already, then never mind),(thread > http://forums.tweaktown.com/f69/ep45...se-help-30512/)
    but the most important/useful are the followings I think:
    1.) AnandTech: ASUS ROG Rampage Formula: Why we were wrong about the Intel X48
    2.) AnandTech: Overclocking Intel's New 45nm QX9650: The Rules Have Changed
    A really detailed info about timings-tRD-FSB-latency-performance overcross
    I try to figure it out, how can I use these info in my situation also (small FSB). Not a very easy stuff.
    Last edited by vacapp; 02-21-2009 at 07:49 PM.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Help understanding GA-EP45-UD3R BIOS settings & Core2 FSB OC principles

    Quote Originally Posted by vacapp View Post
    Hi!

    I think you are trying to achive your performance the same way as me (little CPU overclock, but as much memory performance as possible). Althought I am new in this OC scene, and have somehow different problems because of very small stock FSB (E5200/200MHz) I can show you some really helpful guides in my own thread (if you are familiar already, then never mind),(thread > http://forums.tweaktown.com/f69/ep45...se-help-30512/)
    but the most important/useful are the followings I think:
    1.) AnandTech: ASUS ROG Rampage Formula: Why we were wrong about the Intel X48
    2.) AnandTech: Overclocking Intel's New 45nm QX9650: The Rules Have Changed
    A really detailed info about timings-tRD-FSB-latency-performance overcross
    I try to figure it out, how can I use these info in my situation also (small FSB). Not a very easy stuff.
    THANK YOU, vacapp!

    Those two Anandtech articles were HUGELY helpful and exactly what I needed to educate myself about the intricacies of the current Intel platform and memory performance.

    I now understand why the quest for a 1:1 memory ratio isn't worth the effort.

    I will now be pursuing a configuration using 400MHz or 450MHz FSB and attempting to adjust the memory multiplier, timings, and and particularly tRD to maximize performance.

    A question, on Gigabyte boards is tRD the "Static tRead Value" setting for each channel?

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Help understanding GA-EP45-UD3R BIOS settings & Core2 FSB OC principles

    Id load up memset,linked in the memory setting sticky above to find out about the timings.
    Me personally my fsb/memory/cpu combination is just about right.
    I was lucky in the memory,I didnt know it would run 1000mhz when i bought it,I just wanted the tight 4-4-4-12 timings at 800mhz on ejec voltages as my previous GA 73pvm s2 board has no mem voltage adjustment.

    If you want a lot of detailed bandwidth readouts use cacheburst.
    It will generate memory reports rapidly,but it gets a bit too detailed for posting.
    Last edited by kick; 02-22-2009 at 06:49 AM.
    Current Systems:

    Asrock p67 Extreme6.............. Gigabyte EP-45 UD3 ...................... Gigabyte 73 PVM S2
    Intel i5 2500k 4.8ghz................ Intel Q8400 3.8ghz......................... Intel D820 2.8ghz
    Zalman 10x cooler.................... Coolermaster V8............................ HP cooler
    8GB Gskill ripjaw ddr3.............. 4GB Gskill PI ddr2.......................... 4GB samsung ddr2
    60GB ssd/500GB HDD .............. WD 1TB hdd.................................... Seagate 160GB hdd
    GTX 460 1GB x2 SLI ................. Msi 9600GT 512MB(died) ........... Onboard gx
    Win7 64 ,750w psu(ocz)............ Win7 64 ,520w psu,seasonic...... Win XP pro ,400w psu

    HEC 6A34 case . ....................... Jeantec R2 case............................ Packard Bell case

    hoping to upgrade to http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/habicase.shtml
    http://www.flixya.com/video/140325/Animal-launching

  5. #15
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    Smile Re: Help understanding GA-EP45-UD3R BIOS settings & Core2 FSB OC principles

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalamar View Post
    ...
    I will now be pursuing a configuration using 400MHz or 450MHz FSB and attempting to adjust the memory multiplier, timings, and and particularly tRD to maximize performance.

    A question, on Gigabyte boards is tRD the "Static tRead Value" setting for each channel?
    You are welcome. I spent a whole week to find this exactly fitted information according to my problems. Still, I am not finished yet because of the mentioned small stock FSB (what happens below 400MHz? Therefore is no hint, I must calculate it for this special case). But it seems I ve found the right informations. If you need some timings and other stuff like voltage, lifetime:
    1.) TTR's Guide to Determining Optimum Overclocked System Performance Points - The Tech Repository Forums
    2.) How memory frequency affects latency - Tighter timings vs. Higher speeds? - The Tech Repository Forums
    3.) AnandTech: Intel's 45nm Dual-Core E8500: The Best Just Got Better

    Althought I am still studying these new information (1. and 2.) compared to Anandtech (whether they are related and reliable) I share this of course.

    As for tRD it is the Static tRead Value in BIOS and called Performance level setting in Memset Tweakers.fr (you should not save only apply in Memset and test, so you can reboot the pc if the lower setting not works).
    After tests seems OK, you have to change for both channels - if you are running dual channel - the same value in BIOS.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Help understanding GA-EP45-UD3R BIOS settings & Core2 FSB OC principles

    Ok, I did some more work last night.

    My current target is just to use a 400MHz FSB along with a 3:4 (FSB:RAM) divider to keep my memory at 533 (1066 DDR), and a 7.5x CPU multiplier to keep it right at 3.0GHz (stock speed for the E8400).

    There are only two options for a 3:4 divider on the EP45-UD3R, labeled as "2.66C" and "2.66D". I understand that the "D" one is associated with the 400MHz MCH strap, while the "C" one is associated with the 200MHz MCH strap.

    Now, here's the strange part. For the life of me, I can't get 2.66D to work, not even to POST. However, with a modest bump in the MCH voltage (~1.24V), 2.66C will POST, but I've not gotten it stable enough to run Memtest86 for long without errors. This seems exactly opposite of how I'd expect.

    The EP45-UD3R officially supports 400MHz FSB processors, and I'm not trying to overclock my RAM or CPU speed, so I'm confused as to why it's so difficult to get this working. I realize I'm pushing my CPU out of spec as far as what it expects on the FSB, but it still seems it shouldn't be this hard.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Help understanding GA-EP45-UD3R BIOS settings & Core2 FSB OC principles

    Well the 400mhz multipliers may not work well on non 400mhz(stock ref speed) processors.
    They dont for me and Ive also seen a review of the board where they dont for another 333mhz cpu.
    The D multiplier wont work in either 7x standard,or 6xreduced on my cpu.
    Setting the latch on auto and B multiplier does or on 333mhz latch and B multiplier(well thats all thats available if u use 333mhz latch).

    Whether the 400mhz multipliers work with 400mhz processors or not I dont know..Im sure they do as they would start up on defaults with those.

    266mhz stock processors I dont know about either,perhaps the B and D multipliers wont work with those on overclock.

    I could pull my D820(200mhz x14) out of another mbrd and test a bit but ,Im not that pushed about getting..your copy of windows isnt activated messages :).
    It did work at 3 ghz when i had it in this board, and its working ok at 3.5 in the board its in nowGA 73pvm s2.
    It also worked ok in its original board also gigabyte,but bios totally locked down for (packard bell).
    When I read a different review of this board ,It did mention there is no mhz by mhz adjustment of memory speeds,but there are lots of multipliers to use.
    Actually there arent that many,especially if working depends on stock cpu ref speed.
    But Im happy enuff.
    Is there some particular reason you want to keep the cpu at stock,or is it just something you want to do.
    I think B has a 2.4 multiplier.. that would be around 450mhz fsb,1066 mem and 3.3ish cpu?.
    I couldnt resist a 10% cpu overclock anyway :)
    Last edited by kick; 02-24-2009 at 02:06 AM.
    Current Systems:

    Asrock p67 Extreme6.............. Gigabyte EP-45 UD3 ...................... Gigabyte 73 PVM S2
    Intel i5 2500k 4.8ghz................ Intel Q8400 3.8ghz......................... Intel D820 2.8ghz
    Zalman 10x cooler.................... Coolermaster V8............................ HP cooler
    8GB Gskill ripjaw ddr3.............. 4GB Gskill PI ddr2.......................... 4GB samsung ddr2
    60GB ssd/500GB HDD .............. WD 1TB hdd.................................... Seagate 160GB hdd
    GTX 460 1GB x2 SLI ................. Msi 9600GT 512MB(died) ........... Onboard gx
    Win7 64 ,750w psu(ocz)............ Win7 64 ,520w psu,seasonic...... Win XP pro ,400w psu

    HEC 6A34 case . ....................... Jeantec R2 case............................ Packard Bell case

    hoping to upgrade to http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/habicase.shtml
    http://www.flixya.com/video/140325/Animal-launching

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Help understanding GA-EP45-UD3R BIOS settings & Core2 FSB OC principles

    Thanks for the reply, Kick!

    Quote Originally Posted by kick View Post
    Well the 400mhz multipliers may not work well on non 400mhz(stock ref speed) processors.
    They dont for me and Ive also seen a review of the board where they dont for another 333mhz cpu.
    I get what you're saying, but it just seems odd to me. As far as everything other than the CPU is concerned the board is designed and officially supported to be able to run 400MHz FSB. So it seems like all those systems "downstream" of the CPU (MCH, straps, memory dividers, timings, voltages, etc.) should work fine at 400MHz without needing any tweaking at all.

    The straps only have to do with the MCH, right? So it should be blind to what the actual rated FSB of the CPU is unless I leave it on auto. If I manually tell it to use 400MHz FSB, why should it (the MCH) behave any differently than if I were using a CPU rated for 400MHz? I'd think it should just set it self up with all the appropriate settings as if I'd plugged in a 400MHz CPU, and those settings should presumably work peachy since they'd be completely "stock" settings in that case.

    It seems like the only issue should be getting the correct voltages for the CPU (vcore, VTT, PLL, and reference) tweaked so that it's happy talking at 400MHz too.

    Quote Originally Posted by kick View Post
    The D multiplier wont work in either 7x standard,or 6xreduced on my cpu.
    Setting the latch on auto and B multiplier does or on 333mhz latch and B multiplier(well thats all thats available if u use 333mhz latch).

    Whether the 400mhz multipliers work with 400mhz processors or not I dont know..Im sure they do as they would start up on defaults with those.
    Yeah, that's my thinking too. I'd expect 400MHz to work without a hitch, except possibly needing to tweak voltages for the CPU to clean up the signal if it's expecting 333MHz. But it sure seems like everything else on the board should be fine with mostly stock/auto settings. Otherwise it wouldn't work right even at defaults when you dropped in an actual 400MHz FSB CPU!

    Quote Originally Posted by kick View Post
    Is there some particular reason you want to keep the cpu at stock,or is it just something you want to do.
    I think B has a 2.4 multiplier.. that would be around 450mhz fsb,1066 mem and 3.3ish cpu?.
    I couldnt resist a 10% cpu overclock anyway :)
    Well, I'd rather keep heat and power draw down, and I had ambitions of still being able to use the various C1E/C2E/C4E and EIST power saving functions once I got the kinks worked out. Since they just deal with CPU multiplier and vcore I was hoping it'd still work out if I kept the CPU close to stock. Maybe that's an unreasonable expectation?

    A final question for you. If I leave MCH Latch at "auto", but specify a particular memory multiplier (say, 2.40B, from the 333 strap set), does that mean I'm essentially forcing the strap to 333 as well?

    In other words, is there actually any difference at all between doing this:

    (G)MCH Frequency Latch: [Auto]
    System Memory Multiplier: 2.40B

    and this?:

    (G)MCH Frequency Latch: 333
    System Memory Multiplier: 2.40B
    Last edited by Dalamar; 02-24-2009 at 02:55 AM. Reason: Typos
    CPU: Q9550 @ 3.4GHz (400x8.5, 1.300V, ZeroTherm FZ120 heatsink)
    Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R PCB v1.1, BIOS F13e (modified)
    RAM: 8GB (2x2GB Corsair TWIN2X4096-8500C5D, 2x2GB OCZ 2P1066LV2G, 1.9V 4-4-4-12 @ 400MHz)
    Video: Sapphire Radeon HD7870 2GB
    Audio: SB X-Fi Platinum PCI (in PCI3)
    HD: SanDisk Extreme II 240GB SSD
    Optical: LiteOn iHAS124B DVD+/-RW
    PSU: PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750W S75QB
    Case: LianLi PC-61 USB (2x 80mm lower front intake, 80mm blowhole, 80mm rear exhaust, and 80mm exhaust in PSU)

  9. #19
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    Post Re: Help understanding GA-EP45-UD3R BIOS settings & Core2 FSB OC principles

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalamar View Post
    A final question for you. If I leave MCH Latch at "auto", but specify a particular memory multiplier (say, 2.40B, from the 333 strap set), does that mean I'm essentially forcing the strap to 333 as well?

    In other words, is there actually any difference at all between doing this:

    (G)MCH Frequency Latch: [Auto]
    System Memory Multiplier: 2.40B

    and this?:

    (G)MCH Frequency Latch: 333
    System Memory Multiplier: 2.40B
    It is almost the same, only difference that if you set the latch manually you can choose only the multipliers of this given strap (A,B,C,D).

    As for your problem with the 400MHz strap. This is very strange because in the guides I posted you previous, Anandtech OC exactly a CPU with 333MHz stock FSB although not 45nm just 65nm, but I don't think it is a problem.
    What are your tRD and tCL values? I think this could be your problem not the straps.
    If I am right only with stock MCH voltage and stock DRAM voltage, you can set your PC for tRD=6, and tCL=5. With some overclocking of above voltages it should be possible to achieve tRD=5 with tCL=4. See below pictures (I give the link because they are too big):
    http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/..._overclock.png
    http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/...ory_400FSB.png
    But I don't know how much voltage it is needed.
    Be careful, because in this example the stock MCH voltage is 1,25V but for P45 chipset only 1,1V !!! You should definitely not go upto 1,45V as in the picture.
    Last edited by vacapp; 02-24-2009 at 04:28 AM. Reason: checked the articles again :)

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Help understanding GA-EP45-UD3R BIOS settings & Core2 FSB OC principles

    yeh Im just "guessing"..theorising sounds better but hey.
    I feel that once you get into some overclocking the closer someone is to your specs,that has their system working flat out ,the better off u are.
    I havent seen anyone else with my exact cpu/board/mem combo,but 2 out of 3 posts have been v helpfull.
    All we know for sure on the ep45-ud3 is that they will work with all the 775 cpus listed,the memory we dont know for sure and even the compatible sticks arent listed as"you can oclk the hell out of these on this board".
    On my memory.. the standard performance settings in bios give it a tRFC of 64 at 1000mhz,the turbo performance settings give tRFC of 52+ other timing differences.
    I can cut that down to 48 manually using
    Tweakers.fr from leds sticky above.
    But since saving would lock me into those settings, i dont save them, Im not interested in "running right on the edge" 24/7.


    http://forums.tweaktown.com/f69/ep45...22/index2.html

    has the "my happy place" screenie,most of the settings auto except whats in my sig.voltages a bit higher for 500 is all temps almost the same.
    Last edited by kick; 02-24-2009 at 04:16 AM.
    Current Systems:

    Asrock p67 Extreme6.............. Gigabyte EP-45 UD3 ...................... Gigabyte 73 PVM S2
    Intel i5 2500k 4.8ghz................ Intel Q8400 3.8ghz......................... Intel D820 2.8ghz
    Zalman 10x cooler.................... Coolermaster V8............................ HP cooler
    8GB Gskill ripjaw ddr3.............. 4GB Gskill PI ddr2.......................... 4GB samsung ddr2
    60GB ssd/500GB HDD .............. WD 1TB hdd.................................... Seagate 160GB hdd
    GTX 460 1GB x2 SLI ................. Msi 9600GT 512MB(died) ........... Onboard gx
    Win7 64 ,750w psu(ocz)............ Win7 64 ,520w psu,seasonic...... Win XP pro ,400w psu

    HEC 6A34 case . ....................... Jeantec R2 case............................ Packard Bell case

    hoping to upgrade to http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/habicase.shtml
    http://www.flixya.com/video/140325/Animal-launching

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