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Thread: Stable E8400 OC - stock voltages




  1. #261

    Default Re: Stable E8400 OC - stock voltages

    Quote Originally Posted by Chike View Post
    Exactly that. Default CPU Ref is .063333...(63%) of CPU Term, and as long you don't change it it remain 0.63333. If it was like that in BIOS you would be told simply to set it to .62 or 0.63 or whatever, since it's not, and you can't expect people to remember all reference values for all vtt values, vtt 1.2 is used as point of reference.
    If you understand this you don't have to drop to vtt 1.2 change them and set it back to current value.
    So do you recommend I change the MCH Ref (now .76/default)?
    Gigabyte EP45-UD3R (rev 1.1, bios F12), E8400 @ 3.83Ghz, Xigmatek S1283, 2x2Gb OCZ2RPR11504GK Reaper PC2-9500 HPC 1150Mhz, PNY 9600 GSO 768MB PCI-e OC , CoolerMaster 590, WinXP SP3 32bit and Win7 Pro 64 Bit (swappable HDD's via Icy Dock)


  2. #262
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    Default Re: Stable E8400 OC - stock voltages

    Yes, drop your mch ref down one notch, and test for stability. If that doesn't help, then try one more notch down and test. Enter what you have tried into the spreadsheet I gave you so that you know what you have done, and whether the bios setting that was changed helped or not. For example, drop your mch ref to 0.74v when vtt was at 1.20v, then increase your vtt back to 1.24v. You will notice the mch ref value increase 2 notches to .... I don't know... 0.775v +- or whatever, I can't remember exactly. Test for stability. If it errors, note duration of time before prime fault, bsod, or IBT results (Gflops, temp, etc.). If it primed longer than when mch ref was at 0.785v, then the change that you did, probably helped. And so on, get it?

    Just do it. Things will start to make more sense.
    1) Gigabyte EP45-UD3P (rev 1.1, bios F9) E8400 @445x9@1.2625v bios, TRUE 120, Scythe UltraKaze 44cfm, 4x2gb GSkill 8500, Visiontek 3870, Corsair TX850, Antec 900, Win7-64 Home.
    2) Gigabyte EP45-UD3P (rev 1.1, bios F9) E8400 @500x8.5@1.2875v bios, TRUE 120, Schythe UltraKaze 44 cfm, 4x2gb Buffalo FireStyx 8500, XFX 5770, Corsair AX850, CM Scout, WinXP Pro/Win 7-64 Home.
    3) Gigabyte P55A-UD4P (rev 1.0, bios F5) i5 750 @190x20@1.30625v bios, CM Hyper 212+, 4x2gb G.Skill Ripjaw 1600, 7900GS, Corsair TX750, CM Scout, Win7 Pro-64.
    4) Asus P8Z68-V Pro (bios 0801), i5-2500K @44x100@1.248v cpuz, Megahalem rev.B, 4x4gb GSkill Sniper 1600, Corsair AX850, Antec 902, Corsair Performance 3 128GB, Win7-64 Home.


  3. #263

    Default Re: Stable E8400 OC - stock voltages

    Quote Originally Posted by BoombasticSloth View Post
    For example, drop your mch ref to 0.74v when vtt was at 1.20v, then increase your vtt back to 1.24v. You will notice the mch ref value increase 2 notches to .... I don't know... 0.775v +- or whatever,
    I appreciate your responding.

    But within this information is where I'm getting a little lost. Adjusting the MCH Ref down is not an issue. I know my default MCH Ref is .76v (where I currently have it set). So dropping it to .74v is fine. I get lost when I'm being told "drop your mch ref to 0.74v when vtt was at 1.20v, then increase your vtt back to 1.24v. You will notice the mch ref value increase 2 notches to ...." Where am I suppose to see the MCH Ref increase and apparently on it's own? In ET6? I'm NOT seeing this happen in the BIOS.

    I had also adjusted the "Static tRead Value" from 11 to 10. I imagine it's best to adjust them back to 11 until I get stable with the MCH Ref before making any other adjustments?
    Last edited by SBMongoos; 11-02-2009 at 10:15 PM.
    Gigabyte EP45-UD3R (rev 1.1, bios F12), E8400 @ 3.83Ghz, Xigmatek S1283, 2x2Gb OCZ2RPR11504GK Reaper PC2-9500 HPC 1150Mhz, PNY 9600 GSO 768MB PCI-e OC , CoolerMaster 590, WinXP SP3 32bit and Win7 Pro 64 Bit (swappable HDD's via Icy Dock)


  4. #264
    Chike is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Stable E8400 OC - stock voltages

    This is pretty strait forward, the how without the why.
    To set CPU/MCH Ref above or below default, set vtt to default which the default refs for are known, set it above of below default as desired, set vtt back to it's original value.
    Csn't make it more simple than that.

  5. #265
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    Default Re: Stable E8400 OC - stock voltages

    I'm NOT seeing this happen in the BIOS.
    You must be seeing it, it's a certainty. I can understand however that if not 100% familiar with things you can miss it.

    TO see MCH Ref scale up as you change VTT (CPU Termination) do the following:

    Set VTT to 1.20V
    Set MCH ref to your new desired value, so for now type 0.740V
    Use the arrow keys to go back up to the CPU termination setting.
    While pressing page up and page down (to increase and decrease CPU termination) watch the numerical value of MCH ref.

    You will then clearly see that as you increase CPU termination, MCH Ref will also go up. As you then decrease CPU Termaination, you will see it go back down.

    You seem to be an alert kind of chap and have shown willing to learn which is good. You now must get stuck in and get some settings tried. As BoombasticSloth says, you eed to experience how things you change effect your PC. Be a little more confident. You're now armed with all the knowledge you need. It's time to make a concentrated effort to put it all together. I know you have only a small amount of time to dedicate to this, so it's best to make your time spent count.

    At this stage, there's not really any more info anyone can give as to how to OC. When you put some of the things in this thread into practice, we'll have loads more to go on, in the event of any issues.

    Have a little re-read of the posts given you so far, refresh your brain with the info. That's what I do. My theory is if you throw large volumes of sh1t (info) at a wall (my brain) then some of it will eventually "stick". Do a couple of days of tests and then post back with some templates of what you tried, perhaps a screenshot or two and any results, both good and bad, such as "When I did this, a bad thing happened" and "After I did this, Prime ran for twice as long" etc.
    Coolermaster CM 690 II advance Case
    Corsair HX750 (CWT, 91%(80+ Gold rated @230V) single 62A 12V rail
    P55A-UD4 v2.0 @ F14
    Core i5 760 @ 20 x 201, 4.02GHz
    TRUE Black with a single Noctua NF-P12 pumping out 55 CFM @ 19db .
    2 x 2GB Mushkin Ridgeback (996902), @ 7-10-8-27, 2010-DDR, 1.66v
    2 x Gigabyte GTX 460 1024MB in SLI (Pre OC'd to 715MHz core and 1800MHz VRAM) @ 850 Core / 4100 Mem.
    Intel X25-M Boot Drive (OS and Programs) 200MB/s Read & 90MB/s Write
    Corsair X32 200MB/s Read & 100MB/s Write
    WD Caviar Blue 640GB C (Steam, Games, Storage, Temp Files & Folders, etc)
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    Dell Ultra Sharp 2209WAf E-IPS @ 1680x1050

  6. #266

    Default Re: Stable E8400 OC - stock voltages

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho101 View Post
    You must be seeing it, it's a certainty. I can understand however that if not 100% familiar with things you can miss it.

    TO see MCH Ref scale up as you change VTT (CPU Termination) do the following:

    Set VTT to 1.20V
    Set MCH ref to your new desired value, so for now type 0.740V
    Use the arrow keys to go back up to the CPU termination setting.
    While pressing page up and page down (to increase and decrease CPU termination) watch the numerical value of MCH ref.

    You will then clearly see that as you increase CPU termination, MCH Ref will also go up. As you then decrease CPU Termaination, you will see it go back down.

    You seem to be an alert kind of chap and have shown willing to learn which is good. You now must get stuck in and get some settings tried. As BoombasticSloth says, you eed to experience how things you change effect your PC. Be a little more confident. You're now armed with all the knowledge you need. It's time to make a concentrated effort to put it all together. I know you have only a small amount of time to dedicate to this, so it's best to make your time spent count.

    At this stage, there's not really any more info anyone can give as to how to OC. When you put some of the things in this thread into practice, we'll have loads more to go on, in the event of any issues.

    Have a little re-read of the posts given you so far, refresh your brain with the info. That's what I do. My theory is if you throw large volumes of sh1t (info) at a wall (my brain) then some of it will eventually "stick". Do a couple of days of tests and then post back with some templates of what you tried, perhaps a screenshot or two and any results, both good and bad, such as "When I did this, a bad thing happened" and "After I did this, Prime ran for twice as long" etc.
    Thanks for getting back to me. Your assistance has been helpful. I tend to get caught up in the details but it's also what "I do". If that makes sense. I'm very detail oriented and notice things that most people don't. I tend to do things in a very efficient manner so I'm sure this has caused this to drag out longer than need be. Meaning I look to ask a question, get an answer, if no answer then "bump" and sometimes by then it's forgotten what point I was at and then I start over thinking it's quicker than doing a search and sifting through tons of info. I find clarification, when working with these sort of things, helpful. Often buzz words are used and since this isn't my area (at least yet, ha) it can be easy to get lost. So, thanks again for your help.

    I did go into the BIOS and set the CPU Term (1.2v) and the MCH Ref (.74). I then moved back up to CPU Term and changed it and could see that the MCH Ref changed. Example: 1.24 CPU Term = .765 MCH Ref. So I should have checked to see if the opposite is true (I would assume but I'll check based on my opinion of assumptions when working with such things). Meaning will adjusting the MCH Ref change the CPU Term. I'm going to not use the terminology VTT for my sake as it only adds a bit of confusion at this point.

    So I'm going to try CPU Term at 1.2v and MCH Ref at .74v and test with Prime95 and see what happens. If it fails then I understand that I should drop the MCH down a notch and try for stability again. So the point being is we're trying to OC with the voltage as low as possible. The longer between failures in Prime95 then I'm heading in the right direction. But it seems I may need to increase MCH Ref to become stable. And then the idea to be able to run it over night (8 - 12 hours I guess) with no errors and you know your good. Then, tweak a bit more to get a higher Ghz speed out of the CPU which may mean pushing up the MCH Ref or CPU Term. That sound right? Based on earlier notes of yours it sounds like it's okay to use ET6 or is that only for testing GFlops for the VCore?

    Edit: Vdroop - The vcore is set to 1.28125v in the BIOS but CPU-Z says 1.264v this is while CPU is idle.
    Last edited by SBMongoos; 11-03-2009 at 08:34 AM.
    Gigabyte EP45-UD3R (rev 1.1, bios F12), E8400 @ 3.83Ghz, Xigmatek S1283, 2x2Gb OCZ2RPR11504GK Reaper PC2-9500 HPC 1150Mhz, PNY 9600 GSO 768MB PCI-e OC , CoolerMaster 590, WinXP SP3 32bit and Win7 Pro 64 Bit (swappable HDD's via Icy Dock)


  7. #267
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    Default Re: Stable E8400 OC - stock voltages

    Quote Originally Posted by SBMongoos View Post
    So I should have checked to see if the opposite is true (I would assume but I'll check based on my opinion of assumptions when working with such things). Meaning will adjusting the MCH Ref change the CPU Term.

    Edit: Vdroop - The vcore is set to 1.28125v in the BIOS but CPU-Z says 1.264v this is while CPU is idle.
    The opposite will not hold true. Changing the Mch ref will not change the vtt, but I gather you figure that out by now if you have tried it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho101 View Post
    Vdrop = difference between what you set in the BIOS and what you see in CPU-Z at idle.

    VDroop = difference between idle reading and 100% CPU load reading.
    From post #234.
    1) Gigabyte EP45-UD3P (rev 1.1, bios F9) E8400 @445x9@1.2625v bios, TRUE 120, Scythe UltraKaze 44cfm, 4x2gb GSkill 8500, Visiontek 3870, Corsair TX850, Antec 900, Win7-64 Home.
    2) Gigabyte EP45-UD3P (rev 1.1, bios F9) E8400 @500x8.5@1.2875v bios, TRUE 120, Schythe UltraKaze 44 cfm, 4x2gb Buffalo FireStyx 8500, XFX 5770, Corsair AX850, CM Scout, WinXP Pro/Win 7-64 Home.
    3) Gigabyte P55A-UD4P (rev 1.0, bios F5) i5 750 @190x20@1.30625v bios, CM Hyper 212+, 4x2gb G.Skill Ripjaw 1600, 7900GS, Corsair TX750, CM Scout, Win7 Pro-64.
    4) Asus P8Z68-V Pro (bios 0801), i5-2500K @44x100@1.248v cpuz, Megahalem rev.B, 4x4gb GSkill Sniper 1600, Corsair AX850, Antec 902, Corsair Performance 3 128GB, Win7-64 Home.


  8. #268

    Default Re: Stable E8400 OC - stock voltages

    Then:

    Vdrop - The vcore is set to 1.28125v in the BIOS but CPU-Z says 1.264v

    Vdroop - The vcore is set to 1.28125v in the BIOS but CPU-Z says 1.248v

    ET6 had been showing correct "target" info until recently. Now when I check the CPU Term and MCH Ref with ET6 the MCH Ref does not match the BIOS. ET6 shows lower.

    Is it not recommended to adjust the MCH Ref after changing the CPU Term? It seems if you adjust the CPU Term and the MCH Ref changes automatically that there is a reason for it so I'm wondering if it's best to go with this. I've tried adjusting the MCH Ref seperately but so far all is failing.
    Gigabyte EP45-UD3R (rev 1.1, bios F12), E8400 @ 3.83Ghz, Xigmatek S1283, 2x2Gb OCZ2RPR11504GK Reaper PC2-9500 HPC 1150Mhz, PNY 9600 GSO 768MB PCI-e OC , CoolerMaster 590, WinXP SP3 32bit and Win7 Pro 64 Bit (swappable HDD's via Icy Dock)


  9. #269
    Chike is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Stable E8400 OC - stock voltages

    Quote Originally Posted by SBMongoos View Post
    ET6 had been showing correct "target" info until recently. Now when I check the CPU Term and MCH Ref with ET6 the MCH Ref does not match the BIOS. ET6 shows lower.
    The "stupid" ET6 show reference values as they are for default vtt, it may be good or bad, depend on your point of view.

  10. #270
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    Default Re: Stable E8400 OC - stock voltages

    As chike said, ET6 reports refs in a different way. I've gotten used to it as have others but it can be confusing, so best not to worry about it. ET6 will always show MCH and CPU Ref to be what ever figure it becomes at 1.2CPU Term. So if you have 0.760V MCH Ref at 1.2CPU Term then even if you set CPU term to 1.4V, ET6 will still show 0.760V. If you have MCH Ref set to 0.720V @ 1.2V CPU Term, then ET6 will always show 0.72V etc, etc.

    The idea of changing MCH Ref when CPU Ref is 1.2V is so that you get the correct % scaling.

    Your plan for testing seems good and I look forward to seeing what you find out. Remember though that with a dual core it's usually the case that less MCH Ref is better.

    For tuning CPU Term and MCH Ref, set a Vcore you know is enough for the speed you want and do the following:

    CPU term to 1.2V, MCH Ref at default 0.760V
    Increase CPU term to 1.22, 1.24, 1.26, 1.28, 1.3, 1.32, 1.34, 1.36, 1.38, 1.40, testing after each change to CPU Term. Don't touch MCH ref after initially setting 0.760 @1.2 CPU Term

    CPU Term to 1.2V and MCH Ref to 0.740V
    Increase CPU term to 1.22, 1.24, 1.26, 1.28, 1.3, 1.32, 1.34, 1.36, 1.38, 1.40, testing after each change to CPU Term. Don't touch MCH ref after initially setting 0.740 @1.2 CPU Term

    CPU Term to 1.2V and MCH Ref to 0.720V
    Increase CPU term to 1.22, 1.24, 1.26, 1.28, 1.3, 1.32, 1.34, 1.36, 1.38, 1.40, testing after each change to CPU Term. Don't touch MCH ref after initially setting 0.720 @1.2 CPU Term

    CPU Term to 1.2V and MCH Ref to 0.700V
    Increase CPU term to 1.22, 1.24, 1.26, 1.28, 1.3, 1.32, 1.34, 1.36, 1.38, 1.40, testing after each change to CPU Term. Don't touch MCH ref after initially setting 0.700 @1.2 CPU Term

    Lower than 0.700MCH Ref at 1.2V CPU Term isn't often needed, and you should find the best value between 0.760 and 0.70V for a dual core.
    Coolermaster CM 690 II advance Case
    Corsair HX750 (CWT, 91%(80+ Gold rated @230V) single 62A 12V rail
    P55A-UD4 v2.0 @ F14
    Core i5 760 @ 20 x 201, 4.02GHz
    TRUE Black with a single Noctua NF-P12 pumping out 55 CFM @ 19db .
    2 x 2GB Mushkin Ridgeback (996902), @ 7-10-8-27, 2010-DDR, 1.66v
    2 x Gigabyte GTX 460 1024MB in SLI (Pre OC'd to 715MHz core and 1800MHz VRAM) @ 850 Core / 4100 Mem.
    Intel X25-M Boot Drive (OS and Programs) 200MB/s Read & 90MB/s Write
    Corsair X32 200MB/s Read & 100MB/s Write
    WD Caviar Blue 640GB C (Steam, Games, Storage, Temp Files & Folders, etc)
    Samsung F3 500GB Backup/Images
    Noctua 1300RPM 19dB case fan (rear extraction)
    3 x 140 MM Coolermaster LED fans (one front intake, one top extraction, one side intake)
    Dell Ultra Sharp 2209WAf E-IPS @ 1680x1050

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