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Thread: Ok, a deep breath, and some specific EP45-UD3R BIOS questions.




  1. #1
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    Default Ok, a deep breath, and some specific EP45-UD3R BIOS questions.

    I've had my new system for a little over a week now and I've learned a lot about the P45 platform and the UD3R specifically. However, I'm still uncertain on several things. If anyone could help clarify any of these up for me, I'd be very grateful. I realize it's a long post. Even if you only have an answer for one of the questions, I'd really appreciate it!

    EDIT: Ok, it seems there is a general aversion to large posts. I will break this up so it is easier to digest.

    Getting answers to these questions would help immensely in reducing the number of trials needed to dial in a stable configuration. I could then avoid spending time accidentally trying completely invalid or conflicting configurations, which I'm sure I must be doing now as I keep encountering failures that don't seem to make sense.

    I've never had such a tough time trying to find stable settings for a system, even just mildly overclocked (or at anything other than complete stock!) and I've been building computers since the early 90s. I feel like I'm walking a labyrinth backward and blindfolded!
    Last edited by Dalamar; 02-27-2009 at 12:32 AM. Reason: Break up into multiple posts.
    CPU: Q9550 @ 3.4GHz (400x8.5, 1.300V, ZeroTherm FZ120 heatsink)
    Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R PCB v1.1, BIOS F13e (modified)
    RAM: 8GB (2x2GB Corsair TWIN2X4096-8500C5D, 2x2GB OCZ 2P1066LV2G, 1.9V 4-4-4-12 @ 400MHz)
    Video: Sapphire Radeon HD7870 2GB
    Audio: SB X-Fi Platinum PCI (in PCI3)
    HD: SanDisk Extreme II 240GB SSD
    Optical: LiteOn iHAS124B DVD+/-RW
    PSU: PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750W S75QB
    Case: LianLi PC-61 USB (2x 80mm lower front intake, 80mm blowhole, 80mm rear exhaust, and 80mm exhaust in PSU)

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Ok, a deep breath, and some specific EP45-UD3R BIOS questions.

    1) Is the 400MHz (D) strap looser or tighter than the 333MHz (B) strap? To me it seems like 400 should be the loosest, as it's intended to be used with the highest FSB frequency. As you go down 400 -> 333 -> 266 -> 200 they should be getting tighter and tighter, such that it would be very difficult to run the 266 or 200 straps with a high actual FSB. Is this right? I've seen conflicting information on this, with some posts mentioning that 333 is easier to run at high (400+) FSB, which doesn't make sense to me at all. It seems that 400 should always be the easiest. If this isn't correct, please help me understand why.
    CPU: Q9550 @ 3.4GHz (400x8.5, 1.300V, ZeroTherm FZ120 heatsink)
    Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R PCB v1.1, BIOS F13e (modified)
    RAM: 8GB (2x2GB Corsair TWIN2X4096-8500C5D, 2x2GB OCZ 2P1066LV2G, 1.9V 4-4-4-12 @ 400MHz)
    Video: Sapphire Radeon HD7870 2GB
    Audio: SB X-Fi Platinum PCI (in PCI3)
    HD: SanDisk Extreme II 240GB SSD
    Optical: LiteOn iHAS124B DVD+/-RW
    PSU: PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750W S75QB
    Case: LianLi PC-61 USB (2x 80mm lower front intake, 80mm blowhole, 80mm rear exhaust, and 80mm exhaust in PSU)

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Ok, a deep breath, and some specific EP45-UD3R BIOS questions.

    2) Does specifying the strap manually instead of leaving it at "auto" do anything differently at all in the BIOS except limit your choice of memory multipliers? For instance, if I manually set the 333 (B) strap and then the 2.40B memory multiplier, is the effect exactly the same as leaving the strap at "auto" and choosing 2.40B? I would assume that it is identical, but wanted to be sure.
    CPU: Q9550 @ 3.4GHz (400x8.5, 1.300V, ZeroTherm FZ120 heatsink)
    Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R PCB v1.1, BIOS F13e (modified)
    RAM: 8GB (2x2GB Corsair TWIN2X4096-8500C5D, 2x2GB OCZ 2P1066LV2G, 1.9V 4-4-4-12 @ 400MHz)
    Video: Sapphire Radeon HD7870 2GB
    Audio: SB X-Fi Platinum PCI (in PCI3)
    HD: SanDisk Extreme II 240GB SSD
    Optical: LiteOn iHAS124B DVD+/-RW
    PSU: PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750W S75QB
    Case: LianLi PC-61 USB (2x 80mm lower front intake, 80mm blowhole, 80mm rear exhaust, and 80mm exhaust in PSU)

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Ok, a deep breath, and some specific EP45-UD3R BIOS questions.

    3) What does the strap do, specifically, besides determine the default settings for tRD? For example, say I have to choose a "tight" (266 or 200) strap because I want to use a particular memory multiplier that is only available on that strap. Then, since I'm using a high FSB I manually loosen tRD so that it should still run. Are there still other things besides tRD that the strap sets in the MCH which could cause it to fail at high FSB?
    CPU: Q9550 @ 3.4GHz (400x8.5, 1.300V, ZeroTherm FZ120 heatsink)
    Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R PCB v1.1, BIOS F13e (modified)
    RAM: 8GB (2x2GB Corsair TWIN2X4096-8500C5D, 2x2GB OCZ 2P1066LV2G, 1.9V 4-4-4-12 @ 400MHz)
    Video: Sapphire Radeon HD7870 2GB
    Audio: SB X-Fi Platinum PCI (in PCI3)
    HD: SanDisk Extreme II 240GB SSD
    Optical: LiteOn iHAS124B DVD+/-RW
    PSU: PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750W S75QB
    Case: LianLi PC-61 USB (2x 80mm lower front intake, 80mm blowhole, 80mm rear exhaust, and 80mm exhaust in PSU)

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Ok, a deep breath, and some specific EP45-UD3R BIOS questions.

    4) How, precisely, does the MCH derive it's internal operating clock speed? I've read that it is:

    (default CPU multiplier / current set CPU multiplier) x FSB x (some internal multplier?)

    Does the strap affect it somehow as well? Otherwise you'd get a very different MCH core clock speed running a 266MHz FSB processor vs. a 333MHz FSB processor even at their default multipliers. Does the MCH core clock speed even matter that much when trying to tune in stable settings?
    CPU: Q9550 @ 3.4GHz (400x8.5, 1.300V, ZeroTherm FZ120 heatsink)
    Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R PCB v1.1, BIOS F13e (modified)
    RAM: 8GB (2x2GB Corsair TWIN2X4096-8500C5D, 2x2GB OCZ 2P1066LV2G, 1.9V 4-4-4-12 @ 400MHz)
    Video: Sapphire Radeon HD7870 2GB
    Audio: SB X-Fi Platinum PCI (in PCI3)
    HD: SanDisk Extreme II 240GB SSD
    Optical: LiteOn iHAS124B DVD+/-RW
    PSU: PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750W S75QB
    Case: LianLi PC-61 USB (2x 80mm lower front intake, 80mm blowhole, 80mm rear exhaust, and 80mm exhaust in PSU)

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Ok, a deep breath, and some specific EP45-UD3R BIOS questions.

    5) Some FSB and memory multiplier/strap (if choosing the memory multiplier does indeed set the strap too, as I assume in #1) combinations seem to be completely invalid and fail regardless of whether I'm using a very low FSB and very relaxed memory timings. Is this expected? If so, is there a central source of documentation about which combinations just won't work? I'm not talking about tRD stuff here, I'm just talking about combinations of FSB clock values and memory multipliers, even with tRD greatly relaxed. For instance, I've found that the 2.66D memory multiplier (which is on the 400 strap) won't work stably at/near 400MHz FSB for me regardless of how much I relax memory timings, reduce CPU multiplier, or increase component voltages. This seems really odd to me, since I'd assume that the 400 strap should fit perfectly with 400MHz FSB.
    CPU: Q9550 @ 3.4GHz (400x8.5, 1.300V, ZeroTherm FZ120 heatsink)
    Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R PCB v1.1, BIOS F13e (modified)
    RAM: 8GB (2x2GB Corsair TWIN2X4096-8500C5D, 2x2GB OCZ 2P1066LV2G, 1.9V 4-4-4-12 @ 400MHz)
    Video: Sapphire Radeon HD7870 2GB
    Audio: SB X-Fi Platinum PCI (in PCI3)
    HD: SanDisk Extreme II 240GB SSD
    Optical: LiteOn iHAS124B DVD+/-RW
    PSU: PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750W S75QB
    Case: LianLi PC-61 USB (2x 80mm lower front intake, 80mm blowhole, 80mm rear exhaust, and 80mm exhaust in PSU)

  7. #7
    Lsdmeasap's Avatar
    Lsdmeasap is offline GIGABYTE Guru
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    Default Re: Ok, a deep breath, and some specific EP45-UD3R BIOS questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalamar View Post
    1) Is the 400MHz (D) strap looser or tighter than the 333MHz (B) strap? To me it seems like 400 should be the loosest, as it's intended to be used with the highest FSB frequency. As you go down 400 -> 333 -> 266 -> 200 they should be getting tighter and tighter, such that it would be very difficult to run the 266 or 200 straps with a high actual FSB. Is this right? I've seen conflicting information on this, with some posts mentioning that 333 is easier to run at high (400+) FSB, which doesn't make sense to me at all. It seems that 400 should always be the easiest. If this isn't correct, please help me understand why.
    400 Mhz strap is a faster Freq on the NB with looser internal timings.

    As I said previously those who said 333 worked for them at higher FSB but 400 would not likely had some incorrect settings causing 400 to fail, such as tRD to tight or MCH Voltage to high or low.

    400 May not always be the easiest, but after 400 FSB it would be eaiser to run and eaiser on the NB and overall voltages then running 333 on a 400+ FSB.

    333 will of course work at 400 + FSB, and would be better then 400, but would also require more voltages

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalamar View Post
    2) Does specifying the strap manually instead of leaving it at "auto" do anything differently at all in the BIOS except limit your choice of memory multipliers? For instance, if I manually set the 333 (B) strap and then the 2.40B memory multiplier, is the effect exactly the same as leaving the strap at "auto" and choosing 2.40B? I would assume that it is identical, but wanted to be sure.
    They are indentical. The manual selection of MCH Strap just limits the multi's available to the user for said strap to make things easier as those would be the stable mutli't for the set strap. You can set it or leave it in auto and make your Memory Mutli choice and it is the same either way

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalamar View Post
    3) What does the strap do, specifically, besides determine the default settings for tRD? For example, say I have to choose a "tight" (266 or 200) strap because I want to use a particular memory multiplier that is only available on that strap. Then, since I'm using a high FSB I manually loosen tRD so that it should still run. Are there still other things besides tRD that the strap sets in the MCH which could cause it to fail at high FSB?
    That is about spot on thoughts. You may need higher MCH or ram voltage to run like that, but you have the general idea correct for sure

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalamar View Post
    4) How, precisely, does the MCH derive it's internal operating clock speed? I've read that it is:

    (default CPU multiplier / current set CPU multiplier) x FSB x (some internal multplier?)

    Does the strap affect it somehow as well? Otherwise you'd get a very different MCH core clock speed running a 266MHz FSB processor vs. a 333MHz FSB processor even at their default multipliers. Does the MCH core clock speed even matter that much when trying to tune in stable settings?
    Like I said before, that guide was written for a old board, with a older chipset where strap selections were not fully possible and I believe tRD was not even a BIOS option when that was written as well. And it does not apply to todays boards, specifically the P35/45.

    What MCH Strap you choose to run does just that, runs the NB on that strap speed with Intel's programmed MCH Freq and Timings for the specified speeds

    Yes, MCH Speed does matter, but how it matters is up to you. If you want maximum stability with less voltages then you need to use the strap for the FSB Speed you are running. If you want best performance and dont mind tuning in voltages and other timings then your best choice would be a lower then FSB Strap

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalamar View Post
    5) Some FSB and memory multiplier/strap (if choosing the memory multiplier does indeed set the strap too, as I assume in #1) combinations seem to be completely invalid and fail regardless of whether I'm using a very low FSB and very relaxed memory timings. Is this expected? If so, is there a central source of documentation about which combinations just won't work? I'm not talking about tRD stuff here, I'm just talking about combinations of FSB clock values and memory multipliers, even with tRD greatly relaxed. For instance, I've found that the 2.66D memory multiplier (which is on the 400 strap) won't work stably at/near 400MHz FSB for me regardless of how much I relax memory timings, reduce CPU multiplier, or increase component voltages. This seems really odd to me, since I'd assume that the 400 strap should fit perfectly with 400MHz FSB.
    There are some Boards with BIOS issues related to or causing this. Other times ram quality comes into play as well as all other settings

    I'd have to see the Full timings for this set of failed 2.66D examples to best answer this.

    Overall yes, some straps/multi's just will not work at certain exact FSB and one would need to raise or lower the FSB and or voltages and other settings a little and it will work.

    P45 is VERY Tricky, sometimes when you expect higher voltage is needed, lower is what it really needed and visa versa
    Last edited by Lsdmeasap; 02-27-2009 at 12:52 AM.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Ok, a deep breath, and some specific EP45-UD3R BIOS questions.

    Thank you very much, Lsdmeasap!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lsdmeasap View Post
    I'd have to see the Full timings for this set of failed 2.66D examples to best answer this.
    I will post the exact settings combination(s) I've tried this evening.
    CPU: Q9550 @ 3.4GHz (400x8.5, 1.300V, ZeroTherm FZ120 heatsink)
    Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R PCB v1.1, BIOS F13e (modified)
    RAM: 8GB (2x2GB Corsair TWIN2X4096-8500C5D, 2x2GB OCZ 2P1066LV2G, 1.9V 4-4-4-12 @ 400MHz)
    Video: Sapphire Radeon HD7870 2GB
    Audio: SB X-Fi Platinum PCI (in PCI3)
    HD: SanDisk Extreme II 240GB SSD
    Optical: LiteOn iHAS124B DVD+/-RW
    PSU: PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750W S75QB
    Case: LianLi PC-61 USB (2x 80mm lower front intake, 80mm blowhole, 80mm rear exhaust, and 80mm exhaust in PSU)

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Ok, a deep breath, and some specific EP45-UD3R BIOS questions.

    Dalamar, I'm one of those forum members that have had some issues with the 400 Strap. I'm in the curious position of being able to provide lots of measurements for evidence, but cannot adequately explain what I am seeing, but here are my generalizations so far with regards to the EP45-UD3R:

    If you're using high-speed RAM (1066 or higher) and modest FSB, you need to be on the 333 (B) Strap. When you do this, you'll actually see more stability using lower MCH Core Voltage... default even 1.100

    If you're going for high FSB (435+) you need to be on the 400 (D) Strap, and have some readily overclockable 800 MHz RAM. You can get things stable with 800 MHz RAM by using the driving strength profiles. These profiles do something more than just adjust Static tRD because I've tried all manner of values.

    I think the magic that we're seeing here is that on the EP45-UD3R, the 333 (B) strap is good up to a CPU FSB of approximately 433 and requires low MCH Core Voltages. I interpret that as a great bonus! Low voltages with a generous overclock.

    Now, those of us that aren't happy with "generous" and want "sick" overclocking... will need to switch to the 400 (D) Strap around 435 FSB and then look for higher MCH Core voltages and loose timings for stability.

    If you want my opinion, Gigabyte is doing this because they are a leader in power saving and "green" technology. Seems like we can get very generous overclocks with very little voltage over stock - up to a point. After that, normal overclocking rules apply... more power, more heat, more stability etc.

  10. #10
    Lsdmeasap's Avatar
    Lsdmeasap is offline GIGABYTE Guru
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    Default Re: Ok, a deep breath, and some specific EP45-UD3R BIOS questions.

    Just so you know 2.66D does work in P45, Here is some images from my Crucial Memory Reviews using 400+ FSB and 2.66D Multi >>>

    Also, if you read my review you will see I used B strap at 450-500 FSB as well. It all just depends on MANY other things you can set. But most of the time you can use one above or below any given FSB speed with the proper settings

    Crucial 2x1GB *Click Images to Enlarge*

    450 FSB Memory @ 1200 2.66D


    <a href="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/lsdmeasap/Crucial2x1-1200-266D.png" target="_blank"><IMG align=middle WIDTH=800 HEIGHT=500 SRC="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/lsdmeasap/Crucial-2x1-1200-266D-small.png" border="0"></a>

    Crucial 4x1 *Click Images to Enlarge*

    435 FSB Memory @ 1160 2.66D


    <a href="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/lsdmeasap/Crucial4x1-1160-trd8-266.png" target="_blank"><IMG align=middle WIDTH=800 HEIGHT=500 SRC="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/lsdmeasap/Crucial-4x1-1160-trd8-266-small.png" border="0"></a>

    Crucial 2x2GB *Click Images to Enlarge*

    428 FSB Memory @ 1140 2.66D


    <a href="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/lsdmeasap/Crucial2x2-1140-266D-tRD8-3.png" target="_blank"><IMG align=middle WIDTH=800 HEIGHT=500 SRC="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/lsdmeasap/Crucial-2x2-1140-266D-tRD8-small.png" border="0"></a>
    Last edited by Lsdmeasap; 02-27-2009 at 02:47 AM.

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