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Thread: Debugging new build




  1. #11
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    Default Re: Debugging new build

    Update:
    Spent a few hours testing different ram positions and slots trying to isolate the problem.
    Each time waiting and powering down my system and unplugging it and making sure i was fully grounded before touching anything.
    I did not try tweaking with the setting in the bios to much. tried the optimal setting once, never got back into the bios, had to reset the CMOS by taking out the battery under the video card. That was fun. the ram specs on newegg has 2.1v and 2.15V EVP but the chip has a sticker that says 2.2, i tried 2.14 remembering reading 2.15V somewhere and thinking that maybe 2.2 was 2.15 rounded up. ram was still getting errors though. Another thing, it seems to only have problems when i have 2 sticks in in dual channel, does that indicate it may be with the motherboard instead of the ram?

    Anyway after much testing I found that the ram failure is directly related to temperature. with my 6 80mm case fans on on a external 2amp power supply i found that the ram would be OK and get no errors if the fans where turned off but shortly after turning the fan on without changing anything else the ram would start failing. My ambient room temp is 19c-20c. I also noticed that as the errors that where going by the bad patterns seemed to always be the previous tests pattern that memtest86+ was running. what could that indicate? a certain cas timing that need to be set higher than advertised specs? to me it reminds me of the stories about ram freezing and recovering information later, like its running to cold. Is the ram rated for temperatures above 19c or something?

  2. #12
    Chucko is offline Member
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    Default Re: Debugging new build

    Wow... you've done your homework!

    Chips should not need to warm up to work correctly.

    My opinion, from the symptoms you describe, is that there is some component on the DIMMs or mobo that has a weak solder joint, or a hairline break in a PC trace, etc. It's just small enough that things work when warm, but not when cold. Exactly what is irrelevant, but the failures are subtle enough that I would suspect a bypass capacitor or similar passive component.

    It would be interesting to find out if the RAM runs at lower speeds, but it's probably not worth the trouble. I suggest you RMA the RAM and try again with another pair.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Debugging new build

    can someone tell me some cmos settings that should be fail safe with the OCZ2RPR10664GK? Honestly I don't know what half the settings are or do. All I know is somethings causing issues with cold booting that causes the ram to not change between test patterns. I need some idea of some fail safe ram settings so i can tell if its actually the ram or something else. I tried increasing the MCH core voltage from default 1.1 to 1.2 but the system just rebooted twice and reverted back. Would changing the individual channel voltages from Auto 0.9 to 1.05 help? 0.9*2 =1.8 witch is the default value but the rams rated for 2.1=1.05*2

    Also the error addresses seem to go 0,8,c,4,0,c,8,4 in the last digit or the address on the one image I took. That's got to be something with the row or column timing or something no?
    Last edited by cpbldr; 03-19-2009 at 09:54 AM.

  4. #14
    profJim's Avatar
    profJim is online now Chief Munchkin + moderator
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    Default Re: Debugging new build

    To run your memory at 800 MHz, change the following:

    PCI Express Frequency (Mhz) ..........: [100] not memory related, always leave this at 100
    Performance Enhance...................,...: [Standard] Turbo is for later tweaking
    Extreme Memory Profile (X.M.P.)......: [Disabled]

    (G)MCH Frequency Latch..................: [266]
    System Memory Multiplier ................: [3.00A]
    Memory Frequency (Mhz) ..................: 1066 800 <= this is set by the above 2 settings, 1066 is the default setting for your memory

    CAS Latency Time..........................: 5 [Auto] these can be left as is or set to:
    tRCD ............................................: 5 [Auto] 4-4-4-12
    tRP'.............................................. : 5 [Auto]
    tRAS............................................: 15 [18]

    Advanced Timing Control
    tRRD.....................................: 4 => all advanced timing setting should be on AUTO for now
    tWTR.....................................: 4
    tWR......................................: 6
    tRFC.....................................: 72
    tRTP.....................................: 4
    Command Rate (CMD) ......................: 0

    MCH Core.................................: 1.100V [1.20] maybe 1.22 or 1.24

    Verify that the CPU Vcore is properly set by comparing your value with the specs on the cpu's retail box.

    Good luck.
    Q9650 @ 4.10GHz [9x456MHz]
    P35-DS4 [rev: 2.0] ~ Bios: F14
    4x2GB OCZ Reaper PC2-8500 1094MHz @5-5-5-15
    MSI N460GTX Hawk Talon Attack (1GB) video card <---- SLI ---->
    Seasonic SS-660XP2 80 Plus Platinum psu (660w)
    WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data)
    Samsung 840 Pro 256GB SSD (boot)
    SLI @ 16/4 works when running HyperSLI
    Cooler Master 120XL Seidon push/pull AIO cpu water cooling
    Cooler Master HAF XB computer case (RC-902XB-KKN1)
    Asus VH242H 24" monitor [1920x1080]
    MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) video card
    Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium
    HT|Omega Claro plus+ sound card
    CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD UPS
    E6300 (R0) @ 3.504GHz [8x438MHz] ~~ P35-DS3L [rev: 1.0] ~ Bios: F9 ~~ 4x2GB Kingston HyperX T1 PC2-8500, 876MHz @4-4-4-10
    Seasonic X650 80+ gold psu (650w) ~~ Xigmatek Balder HDT 1283 cpu cooler ~~ Cooler Master CM 690 case (RC-690-KKN1-GP)
    Samsung 830 128GB SSD MZ-7PC128B/WW (boot) ~~ WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data) ~~ ZM-MFC2 fan controller
    HT|Omega Striker 7.1 sound card ~~ Asus VH242H monitor [1920x1080] ~~ Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium ~~ CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD U.P.S
    .


  5. #15
    Chucko is offline Member
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    Default Re: Debugging new build

    IME you should not need to increase MCH Core Voltage to run at 800MHz DDR. I have run 333 FSB/800 DDR at quite a bit below the normal 1.1V - the P45 MCH is made to run at 333MHz FSB and 800MHz DDR, so there should be no need to overvolt it at these speeds.

    I have been unable to get my OCZ Reapers to run at their spec'd 1066MHz in a similar P45 mobo. I manually set the timings and get some great results at 800 and now 833MHz. I hope I can get 1066 someday... but for now it's working great underclocked.

    Follow ProfJim's advice and additionally manually set the DRAM Voltage to 1.8V, since the Reapers don't need any extra voltage at 800.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Debugging new build

    OK some/good Success. I tested a few times switching between 800MHz and 1066Mhz with my room at 18c and all 6 case fans going on a separate power supply. 800Mhz seems to work perfectly with no errors of about 30 seconds of running memtest86+ but on 1066Mhz +1000's of errors when system just starts up. I dint buy this ram and everything though for 800Mhz.

    I did not try changing the CPU Voltage any. The box says 1.35v and newegg specs have 0.85V–1.5V and the bios has 1.25 on auto. So I don't know what the heck it should/could be.

    I played around with increasing all the timing a bunch on 1066 thinking it was just a clock cycle timing slightly to low but with no successes.

    OK to the good part. A few days ago I remember I tried increasing MCH Core voltage slightly reading on a couple of places that had the same ram and mobo combo and suggested here to. However when I had tried increasing it from 1.10v to 1.20v, the system did not boot and just reverted back. I researched the MCH a bit before to find out just what the heck it is exactly, saw something about trying 1.05v. Success, at 1066Mhz and 5-5-5-18, cold boot no errors after about 30 seconds of memtest86+, restart just change MCH Core voltage back to 1.1, rebooted, memtest86+ gets 1000+errors in 10 seconds, go back to 1.05v no errors of about 2 min Memtest. I know 2 min of mem testing is by no means a full test, but it appears that the MCH voltage was causing the cold boot fails. I have also been testing this with 8gb 4x2gb. Seems contrary to what iv read for 2 or 4 sticks.

    Here is a graph of the DIMM and CPU core idle and under load
    left- 2x2gb at MCH 1.10v(auto)
    right- 4x2gb at MCH 1.05v


    So any idea why this works? is it a motherboard quark/defects where the voltage is higher when its cooler? or bios registering the voltage wrong? Or is it really something else but that causes the symptoms to go away such as the cpu needing higher voltage and by decreasing the MCH the mobo can supply the CPU slightly more stable power at start?
    Last edited by cpbldr; 03-19-2009 at 03:34 PM.

  7. #17
    profJim's Avatar
    profJim is online now Chief Munchkin + moderator
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    Default Re: Debugging new build

    I've found that a bit too much MCH voltage causes errors and occasionally boot problems. It's a matter of finding the sweet spot. The optimal setting will vary depending on your memory:
    2 sticks vs 4 sticks
    2x2GB vs 4x1GB
    PC2-6400 vs PC2-1066.
    Q9650 @ 4.10GHz [9x456MHz]
    P35-DS4 [rev: 2.0] ~ Bios: F14
    4x2GB OCZ Reaper PC2-8500 1094MHz @5-5-5-15
    MSI N460GTX Hawk Talon Attack (1GB) video card <---- SLI ---->
    Seasonic SS-660XP2 80 Plus Platinum psu (660w)
    WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data)
    Samsung 840 Pro 256GB SSD (boot)
    SLI @ 16/4 works when running HyperSLI
    Cooler Master 120XL Seidon push/pull AIO cpu water cooling
    Cooler Master HAF XB computer case (RC-902XB-KKN1)
    Asus VH242H 24" monitor [1920x1080]
    MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) video card
    Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium
    HT|Omega Claro plus+ sound card
    CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD UPS
    E6300 (R0) @ 3.504GHz [8x438MHz] ~~ P35-DS3L [rev: 1.0] ~ Bios: F9 ~~ 4x2GB Kingston HyperX T1 PC2-8500, 876MHz @4-4-4-10
    Seasonic X650 80+ gold psu (650w) ~~ Xigmatek Balder HDT 1283 cpu cooler ~~ Cooler Master CM 690 case (RC-690-KKN1-GP)
    Samsung 830 128GB SSD MZ-7PC128B/WW (boot) ~~ WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data) ~~ ZM-MFC2 fan controller
    HT|Omega Striker 7.1 sound card ~~ Asus VH242H monitor [1920x1080] ~~ Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium ~~ CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD U.P.S
    .


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