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Thread: New Member




  1. #41

    Default Re: New Member

    Quote Originally Posted by High Sierra View Post
    I'm hoping to get to 4.0. I'll just have to figure out what has to change cpu voltage, memory timings, whatever.

    Perhaps upping the mch voltage will help.

    Ever since I set MCH to +0.2v or +0.3v (8 weeks now) (*thanks to this forum) I stopped getting BSODs, audio lockups, window freezing etc.
    Even at manual Stock speeds i set MCH to +0.2v or +0.3v.

    I've been back to 3.7GHz for approaching 2 weeks long now with MCH set to +0.2v and it's working out perfect. (No need for +0.3v MCH at only 3.7GHz)

    And FSB is still stock. When I get back to 3.8GHz I'll set FSB to +0.1v (*thanks to u I studied my spread sheet results from a year ago :D) and MCH at +0.3v. I bet it Rocks! And 3.9GHz should be easy to jump to too.

    (3.80GHz+ needs MCH +0.3v and FSB +0.1v.) SWEET!
    Last edited by Bee_Dee_3_Dee; 03-31-2009 at 12:14 AM.
    <<< LGA2011 System Summary >>>
    > Power Supply: CORSAIR AX Series AX860 860W 80 PLUS PLATINUM Haswell Ready Full Modular (NE Link)
    > Chipset : Intel X99
    > Mainboard :Gigabyte GA-X99-Ultra Gaming
    (NE Link)
    > Processor : i7-6850K (NE Link)
    > AIO: Corsair Hydro Series H100i V2 (NE Link)
    > Physical Memory : G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 3200 Model F4-3200C14Q-32GTZSW (NE Link)
    > Video Card : 2x ASUS ROG STRIX-GTX1070-O8G-GAMING (NE Link)


    <<< LGA1366 System Summary >>>
    > Power Supply:
    >>>Original PSU (2011-01) :
    Corsair 620HX (NE Link)
    >>>Upgrade PSU (2012-01) : CORSAIR AX850 (CMPSU-850AX) 850W (NE Link)
    > Chipset : Intel X58
    > Mainboard : Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R (REV.2.0) (FB BIOS)
    (NE Link MPP Link)
    > Processor : i7-950 (Revision D0) 3.0GHz @3.84GHz
    (NE Link MPP Link)
    > HSF:
    Noctua NH-D14 (NE Link MPP Link)
    > Physical Memory :
    >>>Original RAM (2011-01) : G.SKILL 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Model F3-12800CL9T-6GBNQ
    >>>Upgrade RAM (2012-01) : Mushkin Enhanced Blackline 12GB (3 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 2000 (PC3 16000) w/FrostByte Heatsink Model 998990 (NE Link MPP Link OverClockersClub Dot Com Article)
    > Video Card :
    >>>Original Vid Card (2011-01) : BFG Geforce GTX295 (
    NE Link)
    >>>Upgrade Vid Card(2012-01) : (2) EVGA 02G-P3-1568-KR GTX 560 Ti (2GB)-SLI (
    NE Link)
    >>>Upgrade Vid Card(2013-07) : (2) GTX 760-SLI Gigabyte GV-N760OC-4GB (NE Link)
    > DVD-Rom Drive : TSSTcorp CDDVDW SH-S203B ATA Device
    > Monitor :
    ViewSonic Pro Series VP2655wb Black 26" (
    NE Link)
    > Operating System : Windows 7 Ultimate
    > Case : COOLER MASTER HAF X RC-942-KKN1 Black Steel (
    NE Link)

    <<< LGA775 System Summary >>>
    > Power Supply: Corsair 620HX (
    NE Link)
    > Mainboard : Gigabyte P35-S3G (F2 BIOS)
    > Chipset : Intel P35
    > Processor : Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale (Revision C0) 3.0GHz @ 3950 MHz
    > HSF: Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro
    > Physical Memory : CORSAIR DOMINATOR 4GB (2 x 2GB) (
    Link)
    > Video Card : BFG Geforce GTX295
    > DVD-Rom Drive : TSSTcorp CDDVDW SH-S203B ATA Device
    >
    Monitor : ViewSonic Pro Series VP2655wb Black 26"
    > Operating System : Windows 7 Ultimate


  2. #42
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Atlantic Canada
    Posts
    103

    Default Re: New Member

    I just had another BIOS reset to stock when I did a restart to use one of my other OP sys. It took quite a bit of effort to get it back. Had to loosen up memory timings to 57724 from 55515 to get it to post at 3.789ghz.
    ASUS P8P67 Pro B3
    I5 2500K @ 4.5Ghz,
    G. Skill Ripjaws X F3-10666CL7D-4GBXH 2x2GB DDR3 1333,
    Coolit ECO A.L.C,
    MSI Twin Frozr AMD HD 6950,
    SoundBlaster XFI Extreme Gamer,
    Seagate ST2000DX001 SSHD 2TB
    Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 500GB SATA2 HD,
    Western Digital WDC WD1001FALS-00Y6A0 1 TB SATA2 HD,
    Corsair TX750W PS,
    Samsung SH-S223 DVDRW SATA,
    CoolerMaster HAF 922 Case,
    Corsair Vengeance K70 Cherry Brown Switches,
    Logitech G5 Mouse,
    Sennheiser PC141 Neckband Headset,
    D-Link Dir-655,
    LG Flatron L222WT Monitor,
    Windows 7 Home Premium (64 bit)

    Remember it's just a game.

    Loyalty above all, except Honor.

  3. #43

    Default Re: New Member

    Quote Originally Posted by High Sierra View Post
    I just had another BIOS reset to stock when I did a restart to use one of my other OP sys. It took quite a bit of effort to get it back. Had to loosen up memory timings to 57724 from 55515 to get it to post at 3.789ghz.
    Have you ever tried the following?

    1. After a BIOS reset. Load Optimal defaults, Save, and Exit BIOS. (Also set Boot Order if you have any IDE HDDs. But don't worry about other settings.)
    2. Boot to Windows Login Screen but just restart.
    3. Load a BIOS profile that worked before. Then Save and boot into Windows.

    I think the Idea is for this BIOS (or MOBO) needing to recognize that you have successfully booted after making changes. Or else it goes back to BIOS settings it memorizes from the last successfully boot. And loading Optimal Settings and using that, as the new settings, along with it being for Scientific Method purposes, is best. And then once the MOBO knows that you succeeded booting, after changes were made, it saves that as what to go back to if Boot Failure occurs again. And Optimal Settings are just optimal to go back to.lol

    Anyway, it's something like that. *And I can't wait to get a MOBO with a DUAL-BIOS! w00t! That will be soooo nice! :D
    <<< LGA2011 System Summary >>>
    > Power Supply: CORSAIR AX Series AX860 860W 80 PLUS PLATINUM Haswell Ready Full Modular (NE Link)
    > Chipset : Intel X99
    > Mainboard :Gigabyte GA-X99-Ultra Gaming
    (NE Link)
    > Processor : i7-6850K (NE Link)
    > AIO: Corsair Hydro Series H100i V2 (NE Link)
    > Physical Memory : G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 3200 Model F4-3200C14Q-32GTZSW (NE Link)
    > Video Card : 2x ASUS ROG STRIX-GTX1070-O8G-GAMING (NE Link)


    <<< LGA1366 System Summary >>>
    > Power Supply:
    >>>Original PSU (2011-01) :
    Corsair 620HX (NE Link)
    >>>Upgrade PSU (2012-01) : CORSAIR AX850 (CMPSU-850AX) 850W (NE Link)
    > Chipset : Intel X58
    > Mainboard : Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R (REV.2.0) (FB BIOS)
    (NE Link MPP Link)
    > Processor : i7-950 (Revision D0) 3.0GHz @3.84GHz
    (NE Link MPP Link)
    > HSF:
    Noctua NH-D14 (NE Link MPP Link)
    > Physical Memory :
    >>>Original RAM (2011-01) : G.SKILL 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Model F3-12800CL9T-6GBNQ
    >>>Upgrade RAM (2012-01) : Mushkin Enhanced Blackline 12GB (3 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 2000 (PC3 16000) w/FrostByte Heatsink Model 998990 (NE Link MPP Link OverClockersClub Dot Com Article)
    > Video Card :
    >>>Original Vid Card (2011-01) : BFG Geforce GTX295 (
    NE Link)
    >>>Upgrade Vid Card(2012-01) : (2) EVGA 02G-P3-1568-KR GTX 560 Ti (2GB)-SLI (
    NE Link)
    >>>Upgrade Vid Card(2013-07) : (2) GTX 760-SLI Gigabyte GV-N760OC-4GB (NE Link)
    > DVD-Rom Drive : TSSTcorp CDDVDW SH-S203B ATA Device
    > Monitor :
    ViewSonic Pro Series VP2655wb Black 26" (
    NE Link)
    > Operating System : Windows 7 Ultimate
    > Case : COOLER MASTER HAF X RC-942-KKN1 Black Steel (
    NE Link)

    <<< LGA775 System Summary >>>
    > Power Supply: Corsair 620HX (
    NE Link)
    > Mainboard : Gigabyte P35-S3G (F2 BIOS)
    > Chipset : Intel P35
    > Processor : Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale (Revision C0) 3.0GHz @ 3950 MHz
    > HSF: Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro
    > Physical Memory : CORSAIR DOMINATOR 4GB (2 x 2GB) (
    Link)
    > Video Card : BFG Geforce GTX295
    > DVD-Rom Drive : TSSTcorp CDDVDW SH-S203B ATA Device
    >
    Monitor : ViewSonic Pro Series VP2655wb Black 26"
    > Operating System : Windows 7 Ultimate


  4. #44
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Atlantic Canada
    Posts
    103

    Default Re: New Member

    Well , thats something to try.
    ASUS P8P67 Pro B3
    I5 2500K @ 4.5Ghz,
    G. Skill Ripjaws X F3-10666CL7D-4GBXH 2x2GB DDR3 1333,
    Coolit ECO A.L.C,
    MSI Twin Frozr AMD HD 6950,
    SoundBlaster XFI Extreme Gamer,
    Seagate ST2000DX001 SSHD 2TB
    Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 500GB SATA2 HD,
    Western Digital WDC WD1001FALS-00Y6A0 1 TB SATA2 HD,
    Corsair TX750W PS,
    Samsung SH-S223 DVDRW SATA,
    CoolerMaster HAF 922 Case,
    Corsair Vengeance K70 Cherry Brown Switches,
    Logitech G5 Mouse,
    Sennheiser PC141 Neckband Headset,
    D-Link Dir-655,
    LG Flatron L222WT Monitor,
    Windows 7 Home Premium (64 bit)

    Remember it's just a game.

    Loyalty above all, except Honor.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Atlantic Canada
    Posts
    103

    Default Re: New Member

    OK, I tried what you suggested. Actually I was forced to because when I started my 'puter today it reverted back to stock settings.

    I loaded optimized defaults, adjusted my boot settings (I do have an IDE drive), and also enabled USB keyboard and mouse support. I then saved this (F11). Then saved (F10). Hopefully I can use this one instead of "load Optimized Defaults", if this happens again.

    I then booted into windows, then restarted, went into bios, set up my 3.789ghz settings that worked yesterday, saved them (F11) then saved them (F10), and booted into windows again.

    I re-booted again just to be sure. I'll let you know if it's OK next time I power on.
    ASUS P8P67 Pro B3
    I5 2500K @ 4.5Ghz,
    G. Skill Ripjaws X F3-10666CL7D-4GBXH 2x2GB DDR3 1333,
    Coolit ECO A.L.C,
    MSI Twin Frozr AMD HD 6950,
    SoundBlaster XFI Extreme Gamer,
    Seagate ST2000DX001 SSHD 2TB
    Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 500GB SATA2 HD,
    Western Digital WDC WD1001FALS-00Y6A0 1 TB SATA2 HD,
    Corsair TX750W PS,
    Samsung SH-S223 DVDRW SATA,
    CoolerMaster HAF 922 Case,
    Corsair Vengeance K70 Cherry Brown Switches,
    Logitech G5 Mouse,
    Sennheiser PC141 Neckband Headset,
    D-Link Dir-655,
    LG Flatron L222WT Monitor,
    Windows 7 Home Premium (64 bit)

    Remember it's just a game.

    Loyalty above all, except Honor.

  6. #46

    Default Re: New Member

    Quote Originally Posted by High Sierra View Post
    OK, I tried what you suggested. Actually I was forced to because when I started my 'puter today it reverted back to stock settings.

    I loaded optimized defaults, adjusted my boot settings (I do have an IDE drive), and also enabled USB keyboard and mouse support. I then saved this (F11). Then saved (F10). Hopefully I can use this one instead of "load Optimized Defaults", if this happens again.

    I then booted into windows, then restarted, went into bios, set up my 3.789ghz settings that worked yesterday, saved them (F11) then saved them (F10), and booted into windows again.

    I re-booted again just to be sure. I'll let you know if it's OK next time I power on.
    Cool. GL
    <<< LGA2011 System Summary >>>
    > Power Supply: CORSAIR AX Series AX860 860W 80 PLUS PLATINUM Haswell Ready Full Modular (NE Link)
    > Chipset : Intel X99
    > Mainboard :Gigabyte GA-X99-Ultra Gaming
    (NE Link)
    > Processor : i7-6850K (NE Link)
    > AIO: Corsair Hydro Series H100i V2 (NE Link)
    > Physical Memory : G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 3200 Model F4-3200C14Q-32GTZSW (NE Link)
    > Video Card : 2x ASUS ROG STRIX-GTX1070-O8G-GAMING (NE Link)


    <<< LGA1366 System Summary >>>
    > Power Supply:
    >>>Original PSU (2011-01) :
    Corsair 620HX (NE Link)
    >>>Upgrade PSU (2012-01) : CORSAIR AX850 (CMPSU-850AX) 850W (NE Link)
    > Chipset : Intel X58
    > Mainboard : Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R (REV.2.0) (FB BIOS)
    (NE Link MPP Link)
    > Processor : i7-950 (Revision D0) 3.0GHz @3.84GHz
    (NE Link MPP Link)
    > HSF:
    Noctua NH-D14 (NE Link MPP Link)
    > Physical Memory :
    >>>Original RAM (2011-01) : G.SKILL 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Model F3-12800CL9T-6GBNQ
    >>>Upgrade RAM (2012-01) : Mushkin Enhanced Blackline 12GB (3 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 2000 (PC3 16000) w/FrostByte Heatsink Model 998990 (NE Link MPP Link OverClockersClub Dot Com Article)
    > Video Card :
    >>>Original Vid Card (2011-01) : BFG Geforce GTX295 (
    NE Link)
    >>>Upgrade Vid Card(2012-01) : (2) EVGA 02G-P3-1568-KR GTX 560 Ti (2GB)-SLI (
    NE Link)
    >>>Upgrade Vid Card(2013-07) : (2) GTX 760-SLI Gigabyte GV-N760OC-4GB (NE Link)
    > DVD-Rom Drive : TSSTcorp CDDVDW SH-S203B ATA Device
    > Monitor :
    ViewSonic Pro Series VP2655wb Black 26" (
    NE Link)
    > Operating System : Windows 7 Ultimate
    > Case : COOLER MASTER HAF X RC-942-KKN1 Black Steel (
    NE Link)

    <<< LGA775 System Summary >>>
    > Power Supply: Corsair 620HX (
    NE Link)
    > Mainboard : Gigabyte P35-S3G (F2 BIOS)
    > Chipset : Intel P35
    > Processor : Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale (Revision C0) 3.0GHz @ 3950 MHz
    > HSF: Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro
    > Physical Memory : CORSAIR DOMINATOR 4GB (2 x 2GB) (
    Link)
    > Video Card : BFG Geforce GTX295
    > DVD-Rom Drive : TSSTcorp CDDVDW SH-S203B ATA Device
    >
    Monitor : ViewSonic Pro Series VP2655wb Black 26"
    > Operating System : Windows 7 Ultimate


  7. #47
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Atlantic Canada
    Posts
    103

    Default Re: New Member

    So far so good. no issues this morning.
    ASUS P8P67 Pro B3
    I5 2500K @ 4.5Ghz,
    G. Skill Ripjaws X F3-10666CL7D-4GBXH 2x2GB DDR3 1333,
    Coolit ECO A.L.C,
    MSI Twin Frozr AMD HD 6950,
    SoundBlaster XFI Extreme Gamer,
    Seagate ST2000DX001 SSHD 2TB
    Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 500GB SATA2 HD,
    Western Digital WDC WD1001FALS-00Y6A0 1 TB SATA2 HD,
    Corsair TX750W PS,
    Samsung SH-S223 DVDRW SATA,
    CoolerMaster HAF 922 Case,
    Corsair Vengeance K70 Cherry Brown Switches,
    Logitech G5 Mouse,
    Sennheiser PC141 Neckband Headset,
    D-Link Dir-655,
    LG Flatron L222WT Monitor,
    Windows 7 Home Premium (64 bit)

    Remember it's just a game.

    Loyalty above all, except Honor.

  8. #48

    Default Re: New Member

    Quote Originally Posted by High Sierra View Post
    So far so good. no issues this morning.
    Sweet!

    We need someone to (f)actually explain why it ("Loading Optimal Defaults") helped.
    <<< LGA2011 System Summary >>>
    > Power Supply: CORSAIR AX Series AX860 860W 80 PLUS PLATINUM Haswell Ready Full Modular (NE Link)
    > Chipset : Intel X99
    > Mainboard :Gigabyte GA-X99-Ultra Gaming
    (NE Link)
    > Processor : i7-6850K (NE Link)
    > AIO: Corsair Hydro Series H100i V2 (NE Link)
    > Physical Memory : G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 3200 Model F4-3200C14Q-32GTZSW (NE Link)
    > Video Card : 2x ASUS ROG STRIX-GTX1070-O8G-GAMING (NE Link)


    <<< LGA1366 System Summary >>>
    > Power Supply:
    >>>Original PSU (2011-01) :
    Corsair 620HX (NE Link)
    >>>Upgrade PSU (2012-01) : CORSAIR AX850 (CMPSU-850AX) 850W (NE Link)
    > Chipset : Intel X58
    > Mainboard : Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R (REV.2.0) (FB BIOS)
    (NE Link MPP Link)
    > Processor : i7-950 (Revision D0) 3.0GHz @3.84GHz
    (NE Link MPP Link)
    > HSF:
    Noctua NH-D14 (NE Link MPP Link)
    > Physical Memory :
    >>>Original RAM (2011-01) : G.SKILL 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Model F3-12800CL9T-6GBNQ
    >>>Upgrade RAM (2012-01) : Mushkin Enhanced Blackline 12GB (3 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 2000 (PC3 16000) w/FrostByte Heatsink Model 998990 (NE Link MPP Link OverClockersClub Dot Com Article)
    > Video Card :
    >>>Original Vid Card (2011-01) : BFG Geforce GTX295 (
    NE Link)
    >>>Upgrade Vid Card(2012-01) : (2) EVGA 02G-P3-1568-KR GTX 560 Ti (2GB)-SLI (
    NE Link)
    >>>Upgrade Vid Card(2013-07) : (2) GTX 760-SLI Gigabyte GV-N760OC-4GB (NE Link)
    > DVD-Rom Drive : TSSTcorp CDDVDW SH-S203B ATA Device
    > Monitor :
    ViewSonic Pro Series VP2655wb Black 26" (
    NE Link)
    > Operating System : Windows 7 Ultimate
    > Case : COOLER MASTER HAF X RC-942-KKN1 Black Steel (
    NE Link)

    <<< LGA775 System Summary >>>
    > Power Supply: Corsair 620HX (
    NE Link)
    > Mainboard : Gigabyte P35-S3G (F2 BIOS)
    > Chipset : Intel P35
    > Processor : Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale (Revision C0) 3.0GHz @ 3950 MHz
    > HSF: Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro
    > Physical Memory : CORSAIR DOMINATOR 4GB (2 x 2GB) (
    Link)
    > Video Card : BFG Geforce GTX295
    > DVD-Rom Drive : TSSTcorp CDDVDW SH-S203B ATA Device
    >
    Monitor : ViewSonic Pro Series VP2655wb Black 26"
    > Operating System : Windows 7 Ultimate


  9. #49
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Atlantic Canada
    Posts
    103

    Default Re: New Member

    Quote Originally Posted by Bee_Dee_3_Dee View Post
    Sweet!

    We need someone to (f)actually explain why it ("Loading Optimal Defaults") helped.
    I agree. I'd also like to know if I can use my version of optimized defaults (with boot order and usb support) instead.

    Also, need someone to explain why doing an actual boot into an OS is necessary. (Prolly just have to go to the point where BIOS loads the MBR).

    I have some idea but not sure if correct.
    Last edited by High Sierra; 04-01-2009 at 10:54 PM. Reason: Added last 2 paras.
    ASUS P8P67 Pro B3
    I5 2500K @ 4.5Ghz,
    G. Skill Ripjaws X F3-10666CL7D-4GBXH 2x2GB DDR3 1333,
    Coolit ECO A.L.C,
    MSI Twin Frozr AMD HD 6950,
    SoundBlaster XFI Extreme Gamer,
    Seagate ST2000DX001 SSHD 2TB
    Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 500GB SATA2 HD,
    Western Digital WDC WD1001FALS-00Y6A0 1 TB SATA2 HD,
    Corsair TX750W PS,
    Samsung SH-S223 DVDRW SATA,
    CoolerMaster HAF 922 Case,
    Corsair Vengeance K70 Cherry Brown Switches,
    Logitech G5 Mouse,
    Sennheiser PC141 Neckband Headset,
    D-Link Dir-655,
    LG Flatron L222WT Monitor,
    Windows 7 Home Premium (64 bit)

    Remember it's just a game.

    Loyalty above all, except Honor.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Atlantic Canada
    Posts
    103

    Default Re: New Member

    Damn, it happened again. I rebooted to change some memory timings, but during the reboot the bios powered of and on and reset the stock cpu settings.

    This time I just adjusted the memory timings at stock cpu settings and rebooted into windows, then reloaded the 3.789ghz settings with adjusted memory settings (stock memory settings of 55515. It booted.

    If this happens again should I adjust the CPU voltage. It's at 1.30. I could increase to 1.35 and test at that setting.

    It's too bad the BIOS wouldn't say what setting it didn't like.

    There must be some issue we are missing. Could it be PS. I have a 470W Thermaltake. That should be plenty.
    ASUS P8P67 Pro B3
    I5 2500K @ 4.5Ghz,
    G. Skill Ripjaws X F3-10666CL7D-4GBXH 2x2GB DDR3 1333,
    Coolit ECO A.L.C,
    MSI Twin Frozr AMD HD 6950,
    SoundBlaster XFI Extreme Gamer,
    Seagate ST2000DX001 SSHD 2TB
    Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 500GB SATA2 HD,
    Western Digital WDC WD1001FALS-00Y6A0 1 TB SATA2 HD,
    Corsair TX750W PS,
    Samsung SH-S223 DVDRW SATA,
    CoolerMaster HAF 922 Case,
    Corsair Vengeance K70 Cherry Brown Switches,
    Logitech G5 Mouse,
    Sennheiser PC141 Neckband Headset,
    D-Link Dir-655,
    LG Flatron L222WT Monitor,
    Windows 7 Home Premium (64 bit)

    Remember it's just a game.

    Loyalty above all, except Honor.

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