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Thread: Newb needs help




  1. #31
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    Default Re: Newb needs help

    i have been warned by a recovering ocer to stop now before i have three or four potential systems lying around. i will heed the warning but right now i only have multiples of memory so i must satify my curiosity.

    my memory for 1333 is set 7-7-7-19 and 1.7V. it doest like any 6s even down around 1000 and at 1066 7-7-7-16 1.5V it results in lower frames.

    thanks for the input. it sucks waiting days for a comment i believe i like it here.

    hoping to run these new modules at least in the 16 - 1800ish range. preferably 18ish, but i expect to be dissapointed.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Newb needs help

    can i expect any issues with this new memory only being 2GB total? obviously my paging file will increase, will that counter any gaming fps increase i might get over my current 4GB 1333 set? also, is it likely that if i get these new modules stable at speeds in the 1800 range, will adding two more (for 4GB 4X1 total) result in having to lower overall mhz?

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Newb needs help

    Personally I'd only be running 2x1GB sticks if I were benching. I personally don't believe it's enough, especially for a gaming system.

    You're not going to see any real difference between 1333 and 1800, especially on a P45. The only reason to go for a P45 with DDR3 now is so that you can re-use RAM later in a Core i5/i7 system. In fact, it's been a thorough pain in the arse trying to get P45 DDR3 configs stable on this forum. I'm certainly glad I stuck to DDR2.

    If I get time, I'll post some shots of the Far Cry 2 benchmark tool @ 400*9 with DDR-800 5-5-5-18, DDR-800 4-4-4-12 and DDR-1066. This way, the CPU's at 3.6GHz which is definitely above bottleneck speeds. The only performance difference should come from the RAM and the strap used. About the only time RAM speed effects FPS is on an extremely CPU intense game, or where the user has graphical detail set too high, and texture info is constantly being swapped from VRAM to system RAM.
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  4. #34
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    Default Re: Newb needs help

    The following posts are shots of the result of three runs in Far Cry 2. The CPU was set to 3.6GHz via a 400 FSB and a 9* multi. This was to eliminate the CPU as a bottleneck with my current single GPU setup. One thing to note is that on setting my RAM to DDR-800 the PC wouldn't boot. On setting tRead to 8 it wouldn't boot. The only way it would was with tRead = 9. To keep things constant, I re-tested DDR-1066 at tRead = 9, and this is the result included for that speed. A tRead = 7 run at DDR-1066 would skew results away from it being about RAM speed in MHz (400MHz vs 533MHz ofc).

    Far Cry settings used:
    AA: 2X
    DX Version: 9
    Fire, Physics and Real Trees: Medium
    Vegitation: Low
    Shading: Ultra High
    Terrain: Very High
    Geometry: High
    Post FX: High
    Texture: Very High
    Shadow: Medium (performance killer!)
    Ambient: High
    HDR: ON
    Bloom: OFF (I don't like the look of it, doesn't effect performance.

    DirectX9 was used because DX10 forces you to use a minimum of High for Shadow and Geometry. Setting both these to high gives a 10 FPS drop in the avrage FPS, a 5 FPS drop in minimum FPS and is noticeable in game slow down in places with a far away horizon and alot of shadows (from trees etc. Vegitation is on low because all it does is make the grass taller and shorter really. There's a slight effect in ground clutter density, but nothing noticeable I like to always stay 50 FPS +. It's not that I'm fussy about FPS or obsessed. I can honestly tell the difference between 45 FPS or lower and over 50 FPS. I wish I couldn't, as it'd save me money on video card purchases, but that's just the way it is with my eyes and brain I guess.

    With your GTA4 results, the game is very |CPU intensive. It's just about the only game I've played where having a Quad makes a huge difference. Some web benchmark results have a Q6600 at stock almost level pegging with a 3.8GHz Dual Core.

    Screen one, DDR-1066:
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    Core i5 760 @ 20 x 201, 4.02GHz
    TRUE Black with a single Noctua NF-P12 pumping out 55 CFM @ 19db .
    2 x 2GB Mushkin Ridgeback (996902), @ 7-10-8-27, 2010-DDR, 1.66v
    2 x Gigabyte GTX 460 1024MB in SLI (Pre OC'd to 715MHz core and 1800MHz VRAM) @ 850 Core / 4100 Mem.
    Intel X25-M Boot Drive (OS and Programs) 200MB/s Read & 90MB/s Write
    Corsair X32 200MB/s Read & 100MB/s Write
    WD Caviar Blue 640GB C (Steam, Games, Storage, Temp Files & Folders, etc)
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  5. #35
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    Default Re: Newb needs help

    Screen two, DDR-800 at the same 5-5-5-15 timings:
    Coolermaster CM 690 II advance Case
    Corsair HX750 (CWT, 91%(80+ Gold rated @230V) single 62A 12V rail
    P55A-UD4 v2.0 @ F14
    Core i5 760 @ 20 x 201, 4.02GHz
    TRUE Black with a single Noctua NF-P12 pumping out 55 CFM @ 19db .
    2 x 2GB Mushkin Ridgeback (996902), @ 7-10-8-27, 2010-DDR, 1.66v
    2 x Gigabyte GTX 460 1024MB in SLI (Pre OC'd to 715MHz core and 1800MHz VRAM) @ 850 Core / 4100 Mem.
    Intel X25-M Boot Drive (OS and Programs) 200MB/s Read & 90MB/s Write
    Corsair X32 200MB/s Read & 100MB/s Write
    WD Caviar Blue 640GB C (Steam, Games, Storage, Temp Files & Folders, etc)
    Samsung F3 500GB Backup/Images
    Noctua 1300RPM 19dB case fan (rear extraction)
    3 x 140 MM Coolermaster LED fans (one front intake, one top extraction, one side intake)
    Dell Ultra Sharp 2209WAf E-IPS @ 1680x1050

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Newb needs help

    Screen three, DDR-800 4-4-4-12 is at the bottom of this post.

    Possible conclusions:

    For me, there's not enough difference between the three results to make a 100% accurate judgement. If we pretend that the difference seen in FPS is purely down to the different speeds / timings of RAM then it's not all that beneficial to have lightning quick RAM for good Far Cry 2 FPS.

    The Far |Cry 2 game engine is well programmed and nicely optimized. It's a good benchmark IMO to test over all GFX performance of a PC, as it isn't biased heavily towards one component. It is however more GPU bound than CPU bound, as are the majority of modern games. While not the most stressful engine to run, it does, IMO, scale very well to a PC of any power. I'm sure that when I get my second HD4850 to go crossfire I will be able to enable both High shadows and High geometry, and perhaps squeeze 4X AA (jaggies bother me but 2X sorted the game out nice) while maintaining the same FPS or keep 2X AA and get a good 60FPS average, maybe a 50-55FPS minimum too, who knows.

    It can be a bit of an addiction, chasing that bit more performance. As far as RAM goes, if you benchmark and like using benchies in a competitive way, then you'll enjoy tinkering with different modules. If you don't it's best to hang on to what you have.

    If you want to try some more sets of DDR3, I recommend buying tripple channel kits with a rated voltage of no more than 1.7V. This is for two main reasons. Firstly, you'll be able to take this RAM with you if you go to i7 or i5(only dual channel, but who knows what decision you'll make. The second is re-sale value. You'll be more likely to get close to what you paid retail for your RAM if you eBay it as people will be looking for a triple channel, low voltage kit for i7. those i7 buyers will have the most disposable income to spend on your RAM, and may be able to afford to buy it easier, as they already have the cash for i7.

    You may find 4 x 1GB works with ease, or you could have problems and have to slow them down. You may be back to square one and have to run them at 1333, or they may run fine at 1600. YMMV. This is why I'm not a fan of DDR3 on a P45/X48 etc. It may just be me, but I've seen more problems with the mentioned boards and DDR3 than its DDR2 counterparts.
    Coolermaster CM 690 II advance Case
    Corsair HX750 (CWT, 91%(80+ Gold rated @230V) single 62A 12V rail
    P55A-UD4 v2.0 @ F14
    Core i5 760 @ 20 x 201, 4.02GHz
    TRUE Black with a single Noctua NF-P12 pumping out 55 CFM @ 19db .
    2 x 2GB Mushkin Ridgeback (996902), @ 7-10-8-27, 2010-DDR, 1.66v
    2 x Gigabyte GTX 460 1024MB in SLI (Pre OC'd to 715MHz core and 1800MHz VRAM) @ 850 Core / 4100 Mem.
    Intel X25-M Boot Drive (OS and Programs) 200MB/s Read & 90MB/s Write
    Corsair X32 200MB/s Read & 100MB/s Write
    WD Caviar Blue 640GB C (Steam, Games, Storage, Temp Files & Folders, etc)
    Samsung F3 500GB Backup/Images
    Noctua 1300RPM 19dB case fan (rear extraction)
    3 x 140 MM Coolermaster LED fans (one front intake, one top extraction, one side intake)
    Dell Ultra Sharp 2209WAf E-IPS @ 1680x1050

  7. #37
    Chike is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Newb needs help

    The results may be different with the other HD4850 if it is the bottleneck. 2T354 already showed a a meanningful improve of performance with 500FSB, he has a strong video card.
    Do you know the memory performance at all speeds, because this is what the graphics benchamarks need to be compared to.
    It all depend on how much data is transferd between the processor and the video-card, for higher detailed maps the difference may be bigger.
    While the bottleneck is the memory you can expect increase of performance.
    And compared to days of memory timings that I doubt would give half of these results it still worth doing while memory performance and video grow.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Newb needs help

    ?? The graphics results don't need to be compared to anything. they are what they are. We don't need to see synthetic RAM bandwidth for this kind of benchmark to be useful. All you need to know are the differences in settings to decide what settings give the best performance. I don't see how knowing MB/s and latencies is useful.

    The whole idea of this test was to use a real world program to test rather than a synthetic benchmark.

    FYI, as is quite obvious from the settings used, DDR1066 provides the best throughput and latencies, followed by DDR-800 at 4-4-4-12 and lastly DDR-800 at 5-5-5-15. You're not going to beat DDR-1066 in a synthetic test with DDR-800 unless you rty running with impossibly low latencies.
    Coolermaster CM 690 II advance Case
    Corsair HX750 (CWT, 91%(80+ Gold rated @230V) single 62A 12V rail
    P55A-UD4 v2.0 @ F14
    Core i5 760 @ 20 x 201, 4.02GHz
    TRUE Black with a single Noctua NF-P12 pumping out 55 CFM @ 19db .
    2 x 2GB Mushkin Ridgeback (996902), @ 7-10-8-27, 2010-DDR, 1.66v
    2 x Gigabyte GTX 460 1024MB in SLI (Pre OC'd to 715MHz core and 1800MHz VRAM) @ 850 Core / 4100 Mem.
    Intel X25-M Boot Drive (OS and Programs) 200MB/s Read & 90MB/s Write
    Corsair X32 200MB/s Read & 100MB/s Write
    WD Caviar Blue 640GB C (Steam, Games, Storage, Temp Files & Folders, etc)
    Samsung F3 500GB Backup/Images
    Noctua 1300RPM 19dB case fan (rear extraction)
    3 x 140 MM Coolermaster LED fans (one front intake, one top extraction, one side intake)
    Dell Ultra Sharp 2209WAf E-IPS @ 1680x1050

  9. #39
    Chike is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Newb needs help

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho101 View Post
    ?? The graphics results don't need to be compared to anything.
    At the end no, just to see if ther was increase of memory performance, and how much, for comparison.
    He won't benefit from DDR-1800 I agreemot more than what he would get from DDR-1500 anyway, but DDR-1500 may still show sugnificant improvement over DDR-1300. There's no way to know but try.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Newb needs help

    wow. there is a lot of good info coming from you guys. Psycho 101, i know you spent some time gathering that info. i thank you for sharing it. Praise to all involved.

    i am just learning, not benching, and certainly not competitive benching. just trying to make the most of what i have. by that i mean gaming performance which i will define as being high frames with high detail. hope that translates well.

    i knew little of these things when i originally built this pc. i didnt have any carry over parts. new egged all of it. this motherboard was the product of an "advanced search" for ddr3 and it came back with basically three options. i knew nothing of chipsets (still dont) and only that i7 looked a little pricey given my self confessed guessing. i tried to make informed decisions by spamming the web but...i am new to this stuff. why market a socket 775 with ddr3 2200+ as gigabyte has? i only assumed that more was better. i was still seeing positive results when i hit the wall with these sticks. i chose to order a $60 2gb set to test (stability, not fps) with higher freqs before adding another 2gb if succesful. hopefully the addition doesnt force a backwards step. maybe 1333 is ideal for this setup. right now i cant prove it. curiousity is driving me. next step is a quad core unless someone advises otherwise. i regret swapping the one in my basket originally. read too many "few programs utilize multiple core" articles i guess.

    note: new memory hasnt arrived yet. i called today to arrange pickup at local fedex and was told they were containerized. i thought that was an interesting word. guess i have to wait until monday.

    i have noticed that these modern games that generically score 8.5 and above tend to use >90% of my cpu. As far as graphic settings go i max everything unless it doesnt "look" (read frames) good. i force v sync and 16XAA through the control panel. i like the way it looks on my 37" 1080P three feet in front of my face. my headshot % has doubled on COD4 & 5 multiplayer compared to my old, now, my daughters new 22". :)
    anyways, i wanted to shoot a reply to let you know i was here but this is a drill weekend and i have been up since i dont even know. i need to sleep and then i will study what has been given me for not all has clicked yet. thanks again. if only oem support was this good.
    Last edited by 2T354; 08-02-2009 at 08:13 AM. Reason: clarity

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