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Thread: Help me choose please




  1. #51
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    Default Re: Help me choose please

    More voltage isn't necessarily better. This goes double for MC|H voltage.

    Your board, in idal conditions with the perfect dual core CPU and RAM combo will probably give a 600 FSB boot or above. Loads of threads on Extreme Systems. One guy booted 620FSB right out of the box on all auto settings.

    *Note that to keep DRAM refs at 50% of VDIMM, you need to adjust them to 0.900V at 1.8VDIMM not at 2.1V. To adjust them. Set VDIMM to 1.8V, then set the refs one tick higher or lower, which ever you want, then adjust VDIMM back up to your RAM specs. 1.8V is used as the reference point as it's the stock level of voltage for all JEDEC compliant DIMMS, ie 400MHz @ 5-5-5-18, 533MHz @ 7-7-7-21.
    Last edited by Psycho101; 06-22-2009 at 01:35 AM.
    Coolermaster CM 690 II advance Case
    Corsair HX750 (CWT, 91%(80+ Gold rated @230V) single 62A 12V rail
    P55A-UD4 v2.0 @ F14
    Core i5 760 @ 20 x 201, 4.02GHz
    TRUE Black with a single Noctua NF-P12 pumping out 55 CFM @ 19db .
    2 x 2GB Mushkin Ridgeback (996902), @ 7-10-8-27, 2010-DDR, 1.66v
    2 x Gigabyte GTX 460 1024MB in SLI (Pre OC'd to 715MHz core and 1800MHz VRAM) @ 850 Core / 4100 Mem.
    Intel X25-M Boot Drive (OS and Programs) 200MB/s Read & 90MB/s Write
    Corsair X32 200MB/s Read & 100MB/s Write
    WD Caviar Blue 640GB C (Steam, Games, Storage, Temp Files & Folders, etc)
    Samsung F3 500GB Backup/Images
    Noctua 1300RPM 19dB case fan (rear extraction)
    3 x 140 MM Coolermaster LED fans (one front intake, one top extraction, one side intake)
    Dell Ultra Sharp 2209WAf E-IPS @ 1680x1050

  2. #52
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    Default Re: Help me choose please

    Allright.
    Is it possible to tell what settings are most likely having the biggest impact on stability/functionality? The amount of combinations is HUGE.

  3. #53
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    Default Re: Help me choose please

    I'll give summarising in order of importance a go, but as you say, the combination of settings is vast.

    BIG stability changers:

    Heat - Not a setting as such, but the less heat the better. You may find that reducing temperatures actually creates stability. Eg a 4GHz clock with load temps of 70c may be unstable, but pop the chip under water cooling at the same voltages and a 55c load and it may be solid as a rock. Two factors effecting heat the most (for the CPU) are clock speed (increases power draw) and Vcore. Other components produce heat relative to their supply voltage too, and in the case where component frequency is changable, that's a factor two. For instance MCH Core and DRAM temps are effected by both supply voltage and FSB/multiplier.

    Vcore -Intel specs state 1.3625 as a max for 45nm chips (like yours) but you should be fine up to 1.45V on air cooling if temps are good (under 65c under 15-20 min of Prime95 load). 1.55V on water, and even more on phase change aren't uncommon.

    Load line calibration - Intel specs for voltage regulation stipulate a drop in Vcore from what is set in the BIOS when the CPU is under load. This is to prevent the natural progression of the clock signal from forcing a higher Vcore than the user has specified. This may cause the system to be unstable when loaded. The usual way around this is simply to increase Vcore. However if you're already running close to 1.3625V, engaging LLC may mean you get stability without going over the 1.3625 limit.

    CPU Termination - Another big player in stability. Too little and too much can both be problematic. This value is also linked to reference voltages for the CPU and the MCH. As this increases so do those two ref voltages.

    MCH Ref - This setting is like voodoo, especially for dual cores. one or two ticks lower (0.740V or 0.720V @ 1.2VTT) can make the difference between an instant Prime fail and 24 hour stability.

    MCH Core - Again a case of more not always being best, although you would expect higher FSB's to need more, it may not need as much as you think.

    VDIMM - Best to start by using the max rated voltage for your RAM. Remember that if you want to adjust DRAM references, first set this to 1.8V, then set back to recommended levels when you're done. VDIMM can be increased beyond rated specs, but at your own risk. It's usually only required if you want to overclock your RAM or try for tighter than spec timings. Eg a module may be rated for 5-5-5-18, Ddr-80 @1.8V but be capable of the same speed with 4-4-4-12 timings at 2.1v

    Timings - MCH strap, RAM multiplier and RAM timings can have a big influence on stability. Make sure to set primary timings as per RAM specs. If overclocking the RAM, loosening the timings from say 4-4-4-12 to 5-5-5-15 can help. Other settings of note regarding RAM are Command Rate, which should be set to 2T on a P45 board and Static tRead. A Static tRead set too tight (low numbers are tighter as with all timings) can cause a failed boot, or stability issues. Best to set this loose to start, then work it down when you get the CPU speed you want.

    Hope that helps a bit. There are many more useful things to read both in this forum and also in places such as Extreme Systems. the UD3P/R is extremely popular at XS! The hardcore OCers love it for its high clocks even though it's a "mainstream" board.
    Last edited by Psycho101; 06-22-2009 at 03:37 AM.
    Coolermaster CM 690 II advance Case
    Corsair HX750 (CWT, 91%(80+ Gold rated @230V) single 62A 12V rail
    P55A-UD4 v2.0 @ F14
    Core i5 760 @ 20 x 201, 4.02GHz
    TRUE Black with a single Noctua NF-P12 pumping out 55 CFM @ 19db .
    2 x 2GB Mushkin Ridgeback (996902), @ 7-10-8-27, 2010-DDR, 1.66v
    2 x Gigabyte GTX 460 1024MB in SLI (Pre OC'd to 715MHz core and 1800MHz VRAM) @ 850 Core / 4100 Mem.
    Intel X25-M Boot Drive (OS and Programs) 200MB/s Read & 90MB/s Write
    Corsair X32 200MB/s Read & 100MB/s Write
    WD Caviar Blue 640GB C (Steam, Games, Storage, Temp Files & Folders, etc)
    Samsung F3 500GB Backup/Images
    Noctua 1300RPM 19dB case fan (rear extraction)
    3 x 140 MM Coolermaster LED fans (one front intake, one top extraction, one side intake)
    Dell Ultra Sharp 2209WAf E-IPS @ 1680x1050

  4. #54
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    Default Re: Help me choose please

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho101 View Post
    *Note that to keep DRAM refs at 50% of VDIMM, you need to adjust them to 0.900V at 1.8VDIMM not at 2.1V. To adjust them. Set VDIMM to 1.8V, then set the refs one tick higher or lower, which ever you want, then adjust VDIMM back up to your RAM specs. 1.8V is used as the reference point as it's the stock level of voltage for all JEDEC compliant DIMMS, ie 400MHz @ 5-5-5-18, 533MHz @ 7-7-7-21.
    This doesn't work. With my relatively stable setup, if I set memory voltage to 1.8 and then alter the refs, and after that raise it to 2.080, the PC won't boot at all. Not even with auto.
    If I manually go to 2.080 and then set refs to hmmm 0.890, it works.
    I don't get it.

  5. #55
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    Default Re: Help me choose please

    How about if you set VDIMM to 1.8V, then go either one notch above or below 0.900V?

    Does the PC boot if you leave these settings on auto? It's mostly recommended you leave auto selected for these if it's stable as the board does a good job at regulating the itself.

    Having said all that, all component combinations are different. It's OK to go with what ever reference voltages you need, as nothing is set in stone.
    Coolermaster CM 690 II advance Case
    Corsair HX750 (CWT, 91%(80+ Gold rated @230V) single 62A 12V rail
    P55A-UD4 v2.0 @ F14
    Core i5 760 @ 20 x 201, 4.02GHz
    TRUE Black with a single Noctua NF-P12 pumping out 55 CFM @ 19db .
    2 x 2GB Mushkin Ridgeback (996902), @ 7-10-8-27, 2010-DDR, 1.66v
    2 x Gigabyte GTX 460 1024MB in SLI (Pre OC'd to 715MHz core and 1800MHz VRAM) @ 850 Core / 4100 Mem.
    Intel X25-M Boot Drive (OS and Programs) 200MB/s Read & 90MB/s Write
    Corsair X32 200MB/s Read & 100MB/s Write
    WD Caviar Blue 640GB C (Steam, Games, Storage, Temp Files & Folders, etc)
    Samsung F3 500GB Backup/Images
    Noctua 1300RPM 19dB case fan (rear extraction)
    3 x 140 MM Coolermaster LED fans (one front intake, one top extraction, one side intake)
    Dell Ultra Sharp 2209WAf E-IPS @ 1680x1050

  6. #56
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    Default Re: Help me choose please

    No, on Auto it doesn't even boot.
    And I am getting extremely pissed - for well over half an hour I spent trying all possible combinations and there is no way to get ANYTHING above 480 working. Period. I only got so much nerves. Screw that. What the hell is the point of putting million settings in the BIOS when it's impossible to do anything with them.

  7. #57
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    Default Re: Help me choose please

    You should try setting up a DFI board. They're a tweakers delight, but a nightmare at the same time.

    If you can post a BIOS template I can look it over, as can other members. Maybe we can sopt something you might need to tune. I know it can be a hassle writing things down, but spending 10 minutes doing it could possibly bring a solution. The plus side is once you have settings in a template, you can save it in Notepad and just ammend it with your current changes.

    The only thing I ask, which would be useful is that when you fill out the template, for CPU Ref and MCH ref, please write the values they are set to when VTT is 1.2. That allows me to know what your current GTL ref % are.
    Coolermaster CM 690 II advance Case
    Corsair HX750 (CWT, 91%(80+ Gold rated @230V) single 62A 12V rail
    P55A-UD4 v2.0 @ F14
    Core i5 760 @ 20 x 201, 4.02GHz
    TRUE Black with a single Noctua NF-P12 pumping out 55 CFM @ 19db .
    2 x 2GB Mushkin Ridgeback (996902), @ 7-10-8-27, 2010-DDR, 1.66v
    2 x Gigabyte GTX 460 1024MB in SLI (Pre OC'd to 715MHz core and 1800MHz VRAM) @ 850 Core / 4100 Mem.
    Intel X25-M Boot Drive (OS and Programs) 200MB/s Read & 90MB/s Write
    Corsair X32 200MB/s Read & 100MB/s Write
    WD Caviar Blue 640GB C (Steam, Games, Storage, Temp Files & Folders, etc)
    Samsung F3 500GB Backup/Images
    Noctua 1300RPM 19dB case fan (rear extraction)
    3 x 140 MM Coolermaster LED fans (one front intake, one top extraction, one side intake)
    Dell Ultra Sharp 2209WAf E-IPS @ 1680x1050

  8. #58
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    Default Re: Help me choose please

    Ok I am gonna print me a few pages of the bios settings template and experiment again.
    BUT I need to be sure that all I have to play with are the voltages in the bottom section of MIT. There are memory settings I got no clue about, and as I saw before, they can make difference or even cause unbootability. How shall I approach the whole thing then? What to start with? The amount of things I can set is the biggest problem.
    Yesterday I managed to create a few setups (500FSB that is) that would go as far as showing the main BIOS screen, but then the PC would freeze and restart. I must say I can't take this for too long, because going down on the floor and resetting the BIOS is extremely annoying.

    edit: Loadline calibration definitely yes or not, and how/if does it affect stability?
    Last edited by Octopuss; 06-22-2009 at 10:06 PM.

  9. #59
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    Default Re: Help me choose please

    usuallyif I get boot problems the BIOS will sort itself out by the third boot, and load backup settings. If it does continually loop, turning off the PSU with the switch on the back for 10 seconds does the trick.

    If you definately do need to keep reseting the BIOS, does your case have a reset button? If so connect the button to the clear CmoS jumpers, then when you need to reset CMOS, just hit the button.
    Coolermaster CM 690 II advance Case
    Corsair HX750 (CWT, 91%(80+ Gold rated @230V) single 62A 12V rail
    P55A-UD4 v2.0 @ F14
    Core i5 760 @ 20 x 201, 4.02GHz
    TRUE Black with a single Noctua NF-P12 pumping out 55 CFM @ 19db .
    2 x 2GB Mushkin Ridgeback (996902), @ 7-10-8-27, 2010-DDR, 1.66v
    2 x Gigabyte GTX 460 1024MB in SLI (Pre OC'd to 715MHz core and 1800MHz VRAM) @ 850 Core / 4100 Mem.
    Intel X25-M Boot Drive (OS and Programs) 200MB/s Read & 90MB/s Write
    Corsair X32 200MB/s Read & 100MB/s Write
    WD Caviar Blue 640GB C (Steam, Games, Storage, Temp Files & Folders, etc)
    Samsung F3 500GB Backup/Images
    Noctua 1300RPM 19dB case fan (rear extraction)
    3 x 140 MM Coolermaster LED fans (one front intake, one top extraction, one side intake)
    Dell Ultra Sharp 2209WAf E-IPS @ 1680x1050

  10. #60
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    Default Re: Help me choose please

    Ok, these are the lowest values that will let me go "as far" as the main BIOS screen (like if I had AHCI disabled). Then it freezes and reboots.
    I tried having all the values much higher without any result.
    Tried CPU term up to 1.340, PLL 1.61, ref whatever based on 0.76@1.2 term, MCH core 1.34, ref same as cpu ref, ICH core 1.2. Nothing.

    Code:
    MB Intelligent Tweaker(M.I.T.) 
    ******************************
    Robust Graphics Booster ..............: [Auto]
    CPU Clock Ratio ......................: [6]
    x Fine CPU Clock Ratio................: []
    CPU Frequency ........................: []
    
    ********** Clock Chip Control ********
    
    >>>>>  Standard Clock Control
    CPU Host Clock Control................: [Enabled]
    x CPU Host Frequency(Mhz).............: [500]
    PCI Express Frequency(Mhz)............: [100]
    C.I.A.2...............................: [Disabled]
    
    >>>>> Advanced Clock Control..........: [Press Enter] 
    CPU Clock Drive.......................: [800mV]
    PCI Express Clock Drive...............: [900mV]
    CPU Clock Skew........................: [ ]
    MCH Clock Skew........................: []
    
    ******** DRAM Performance Control ********
    
    Performance Enhance...................: [Turbo]
    Extreme Memory Profile(X.M.P.)........: [Disabled]
    (G)MCH Frequency Latch................: [Auto]
    System Memory Multiplier (SPD)........: [2.00D]
    Memory Frequency(Mhz).....800.........: 1000
    DRAM Timing Selectable (SPD)..........: [Manual]
    
    >>>>> Standard Timing Control
    x CAS Latency Time................5...: [5]
    x tRCD ...........................5...: [ 5]
    x tRP.............................5...: [ 5]
    x tRAS...........................18...: [15]
    
    >>>>> Advanced Timing Control.........: [Press Enter] 
    x tRRD............................ ...: [Auto]
    x tWTR............................ ...: [Auto]
    x tWR............................. ...: [Auto]
    x tRFC...........................  ...: [Auto]
    x tRTP............................ ...: [Auto]
    x Command Rate (CMD) .............0...: [2]
    
    >>>>> Channel A+B Timing Settings.......: [Press Enter] 
    x Static tRead Value.............. ...: [11]
    x tRD Phase0 Adjustment...........0...: Auto
    x tRD Phase1 Adjustment...........0...: Auto
    x tRD Phase2 Adjustment ..........0...: Auto
    x tRD Phase3 Adjustment...........0...: Auto
    
    x Trd2rd(Different Rank).......... ...: Auto
    x Twr2wr(Different Rank).......... ...: Auto
    x Twr2rd(Different Rank).......... ...: Auto
    x Trd2wr(Same/Diff Rank).......... ...: Auto
    
    x DIMM1 Clock Skew Control (ps).......: Auto
    x DIMM2 Clock Skew Control (ps).......: Auto
    x DDR Write Training..................: Auto
    
    >>>>> Channel A Driving Settings......: [Press Enter] 
    x Driving Strength Profile............: [1066]
    
    x Data Driving Pull-Up Level..........: Auto
    x Cmd Driving Pull-Up level...........: Auto
    x Ctrl Driving Pull-Up Level..........: Auto
    x Clk Driving Pull-Up Level...........: Auto
    
    x Data Driving Pull-Down Level........: Auto
    x Cmd Driving Pull-Down level.........: Auto
    x Ctrl Driving Pull-Down Level........: Auto
    x Clk Driving Pull-Down Level.........: Auto
    
    ****** Motherboard Voltage Control ******
    
    Voltage Types..........Normal...........Current
    -----------------------------------------------
    >>> CPU
    Load-Line Calibration.................: [Enabled]
    CPU Vcore..............1.27500V.......: [1.3250] 
    CPU Termination........1.200V.........: [1.200]
    CPU PLL................1.500V.........: [1.500] 
    CPU Reference..........0.760V.........: [0.760]
    >>> MCH/ICH
    MCH Core...............1.100V.........: [1.220] 
    MCH Reference..........0.760V.........: [0.760] 
    MCH/DRAM Reference.....0.900V.........: [Auto]
    ICH I/O................1.500V.........: [.1570]
    ICH Core...............1.100V.........: [1.100]
    >>> DRAM
    DRAM Voltage...........1.800V.........: [2+] 
    DRAM Termination.......0.900V.........: [Auto]
    Channel A Reference....0.900V.........: [Auto]
    Channel B Reference....0.900V.........: [Auto]
    
    ******** Advanced BIOS Features ********
    Hard Disk Boot Priority...............: [Press Enter]
    First Boot Device.....................: [Hard Disk]
    Second Boot Device....................: [CDROM]
    Third Boot Device.....................: [Disabled]
    Password Check........................: [Setup]
    HDD S.M.A.R.T. Capability.............: [Enabled]
    Limit CPUID Max. to 3.................: [Disabled]
    No-Execute Memory Protect.............: [Disabled]
    CPU Enhanced Halt (C1E)...............: [Disabled]
    C2/C2E State Support..................: [Disabled]
    x C4/C4E State Support................:  Disabled
    CPU Thermal Monitor 2(TM2) ...........: [Enabled]
    CPU EIST Function.....................: [Disabled]
    Virtualization Technology.............: [Disabled]
    Delay For HDD (Secs)..................: [ 0]
    Full Screen LOGO Show.................: [Disabled]
    Init Display First....................: [PEG]
    
    ******** Integrated Peripherals ********
    USB Keyboard Function.................: [Enabled]
    USB Mouse Function....................: [Disabled]
    USB Storage Function..................: [Disabled]

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