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Thread: Heat challenge




  1. #11
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    Default Re: Heat challenge

    Hehe! The barbs are problematic due to the material the piping is made from.

    In a conventional fillable WC loop, some water is lost through the piping. this is a natural occurance, as even the most water tight of plastic is still porous. As the Domino is a sealed no maintenance unit, they need to eliminate as much coolant loss as is physically possible. The thicker piping helps achieve this, but it's very rigid as a result. Careless manipulation of the piping can cause the barbs to snap. It's also worth noting that some reviewers have attributed this to the use of poor quality plastic.

    Alarm bells certainly go off for me about the quality of the product, especially when there are CPU water blocks that are more expensive than the Domino. I suppose you only get a certain amount of product for $80.

    Having said that, I haven't fitted one, and the one I did see working, I wasn't able to see any CPU temps or run any stress tests.

    I hope it does work for what you need.

    One thing I would try first though is a re-aplication of TIM. I've recently installed a couple of heatpipe direct touch coolers in other machines, and it can be hard to get the right TIM aplication. The best method I found was to initially use some paste and a piece of plastic to spread TIM into the tiny gaps between heat pipes and the aluminium bars un between them. Then wipe the TIM off the heat pipes and bars. The TIM should be applied onto the two aluminium bars which are left and right of the centre heat pipe. a small line about 1/4 the length of the bar, directly on top and running with it, produced the best results. Temps dropped by 3-4c instantly.
    Coolermaster CM 690 II advance Case
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    2 x 2GB Mushkin Ridgeback (996902), @ 7-10-8-27, 2010-DDR, 1.66v
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    Intel X25-M Boot Drive (OS and Programs) 200MB/s Read & 90MB/s Write
    Corsair X32 200MB/s Read & 100MB/s Write
    WD Caviar Blue 640GB C (Steam, Games, Storage, Temp Files & Folders, etc)
    Samsung F3 500GB Backup/Images
    Noctua 1300RPM 19dB case fan (rear extraction)
    3 x 140 MM Coolermaster LED fans (one front intake, one top extraction, one side intake)
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  2. #12
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    Default Re: Heat challenge

    I read about the tube issue before buying the unit. I am aware that all tubing is porous to one degree or another and CoolIT took that into account with the stiff tubing. It makes sense as I figured that being careless with the pipes could be a problem. Downside is that the radiator is aluminum which, unless an alloy of some type is a rather "soft" metal. The warranty is 2 years and the design life is 7. Much better odds than Vegas.

    Remounting the HDT cooler? 6 times so far using every method I've read about and one from an article suggested here which is how it runs now. The only difference observed was about 1C cooler when using the back bracket rather than the 775 pins.

    Had questioned that the application of the TIM would be by design uneven when I bought the Scorpion. I didn't specifically order the Red Scorpion which turns out not to be as good as the black unit. I seem to remember that they started to nickel plate the heat pipes on the Scorpion. Newegg sent a S1283 which it appears to be the common number for the HDT units.

    During the first install I wondered about those tiny gaps between the pipes and the cooling block to which you allude, so I used the baggie method and put down a very thin layer on top of the CPU. Using the HDT article's method took the better half of 30 min to get it just right by the instructions and expect that the contact is good. Did it make a difference? Nope. So if nothing else, there is consistency no matter how the TIM has been applied and just the 1C difference by using the optional back mounting bracket.

    Am finding unless you go big bucks, you pay your money and take your chances...I will report back how this turns out. If my judgment was bogus, it will be published here first. This is a learning process for me and very much appreciate the dialogue on all the issues I've brought up here.

    As long as I'm at it, any opinions on the Thermaltake ProWater 850i ? Looks like the radiator might be more rugged. Haven't had any experience with Thermaltake so don't know if they are any more or less a gamble than the Domino. Thoughts?


  3. #13
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    Default Re: Heat challenge

    The Domino has been installed. Only issue is messing with C clips as you have to change the position of the attachment posts one notch to match the 775 holes. The good news, the X brace on the back of the MB that had been installed for the Red Scorpion fit the Domino perfectly.

    So how does it work?... as with much in life it is the ability to set realistic expectations. I did not expect much at the $80 price point. At most a couple of degrees. Expectations met. Running at 3.4GHz, the temps are down 2C to 3C. The Intel burn test was down 4C to 5C as they were below 70C. All good.

    If the barbs on the radiator are an issue, it should take a bit longer to show itself as I noticed that they seem to be reinforced. A design change? Also like the rubber "nipples" that hold the unit to the case. Also noted is that the build quality is much better than I had expected. They do provide extra attachment hardware if you lose one...like a C clip. Nice touch.

    CoolIT gives a 2 year warranty and a 7 year design life. At $80, that is more than reasonable.

    The system is set on the medium setting where a majority of folks that use this unit have set it. This setting varies the fan speed based on the demand. Watching CPUID indicates that the fan speed change is doing what is advertised. It is in fact noisy at the high setting but it does mean a 2C to 4C reduction in heat. Am using EIST function so the system goes from 3.4GHz down to 2.5GHz, again meets my needs. It also seems to throttle up fast when the load suddenly increases. I've heard and will try later that the C1E allows the throttling but is somewhat sluggish.

    So bottom line? Only time will tell...so far expectations have been met. It is obvious that OC'ing to 4.0GHz will overwhelm the unit. But I don't need something that fast. May try out 3.6MHz late at night...when it's cool in my room... and see what happens.

    Any comments? Please know I am listening to both everyone that is participating in my post and my wallet.


  4. #14
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    Default Re: Heat challenge

    Since you are not going all out liquid cooling and you run a/c in your house/apt why not position the pc near the cool air outlet or duct the air to the pc.
    Desert air is dry air compared to say florida so condensation shouldnt be a prob.
    Current Systems:

    Asrock p67 Extreme6.............. Gigabyte EP-45 UD3 ...................... Gigabyte 73 PVM S2
    Intel i5 2500k 4.8ghz................ Intel Q8400 3.8ghz......................... Intel D820 2.8ghz
    Zalman 10x cooler.................... Coolermaster V8............................ HP cooler
    8GB Gskill ripjaw ddr3.............. 4GB Gskill PI ddr2.......................... 4GB samsung ddr2
    60GB ssd/500GB HDD .............. WD 1TB hdd.................................... Seagate 160GB hdd
    GTX 460 1GB x2 SLI ................. Msi 9600GT 512MB(died) ........... Onboard gx
    Win7 64 ,750w psu(ocz)............ Win7 64 ,520w psu,seasonic...... Win XP pro ,400w psu

    HEC 6A34 case . ....................... Jeantec R2 case............................ Packard Bell case

    hoping to upgrade to http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/habicase.shtml
    http://www.flixya.com/video/140325/Animal-launching

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Heat challenge

    Seems like you have a posative result, which is good. I'm glad you've at least reaped some benefit from your investment. Money is money, no matter the sum involved, so I'm pleased it's working.

    How does the unit cope with prolonged load? I've seen a few low flow WC units with small coolant reserves (bay res) that perform amazingly for a time, until the fluid starts to heat up a little. A true test of the Domino would be whether it's able to keep enough heat out of the coolant indefinitely.
    Coolermaster CM 690 II advance Case
    Corsair HX750 (CWT, 91%(80+ Gold rated @230V) single 62A 12V rail
    P55A-UD4 v2.0 @ F14
    Core i5 760 @ 20 x 201, 4.02GHz
    TRUE Black with a single Noctua NF-P12 pumping out 55 CFM @ 19db .
    2 x 2GB Mushkin Ridgeback (996902), @ 7-10-8-27, 2010-DDR, 1.66v
    2 x Gigabyte GTX 460 1024MB in SLI (Pre OC'd to 715MHz core and 1800MHz VRAM) @ 850 Core / 4100 Mem.
    Intel X25-M Boot Drive (OS and Programs) 200MB/s Read & 90MB/s Write
    Corsair X32 200MB/s Read & 100MB/s Write
    WD Caviar Blue 640GB C (Steam, Games, Storage, Temp Files & Folders, etc)
    Samsung F3 500GB Backup/Images
    Noctua 1300RPM 19dB case fan (rear extraction)
    3 x 140 MM Coolermaster LED fans (one front intake, one top extraction, one side intake)
    Dell Ultra Sharp 2209WAf E-IPS @ 1680x1050

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Heat challenge

    A little more serious in the testing this morning (4:30am). Have not stress tested other than the Intel burn. Coolant temp gets to 41C and the test has never failed running the machine at 3.4GHz. At idle the coolant stays at 35C. The highest core temp during the test was 78C. Not great by any stretch, I know that, but my expectations were on the low side. The tests were run at the middle setting such that the fan changes speed as the temp rises. This keeps the fan noise at bay. Should mention that my high temp core was used for measurement. It is a good 5C warmer than the other cores. Just how it is.

    Now at full fan speed the coolant temp got to 39C and the hottest core was 73C. Am measuring the CPU temp using CPUID Hardware Monitor. Remember that the ambient temperature is 26.6C which is warm by most standards and this morning it was especially warm outside such that I could not have the windows open to draw in cool air that wasn't cool.

    So there you have it. Nothing to write home about. No better than my Xigmatek. The heat exchanger came pre-coated with TIM which I removed and replaced with Arctic Silver 5. At some point I'll pull the unit, and see how much spreading took place from the 1/2" bead that was laid down. First I want it to settle in for a couple of weeks. The exchanger was polished to have a good fit. It looked plated, nickel? I'm not that confident with the CPU. It seems to have an almost insignificant crown...maybe that's normal... but could lapping help? I know that HDT units..IMO..have lousy, uneven contact with the CPU. Yes, that is their design and yet the expensive units do an outstanding job.

    What did this prove? An inexpensive water unit is doing ok. Just ok. What it does do is move a lot of heat out of the case, that the rig is much quieter, it requires no maintenance and that I appear...major emphasis on appear... to have gotten my moneys worth.

    My goal has not been to win high OC'ing marathons. It is to be stable with the applications I run, but at a higher clock. Am using the EIST so that the CPU throttles down to 2.5GHz when idle. Where I want it to be. When I win the lottery, will look into units two to four times the price. The case is a natural for a top of case radiator with 2x120mm fans and heck, a 3.8GHz OC?

    As to air conditioning...would love to have the unit near a vent. But am not wild about having a computer on the ceiling...where all desert houses in my neck of the cacti have their vents.


  7. #17
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    Default Re: Heat challenge

    INdeed. With say a decent twin fan Black Ice rad, an Apogee block, 200Gal/hr pump and a 500-700ml res, you'd see maybe peak IBT temps in the high 50's at your ambient temp. That puts you in the running for a 3.8-4GHz clock, running maybe 70c or a little less.

    Your slightly convex IHS may be slightly more problematic than a concave one, as adding more TIM will do no good. It may account for the reason one core is hotter than the others. apping would at the very least, cool the hot core to about the same as the others, if the IHS is to blame.

    It's actually an easier job than it sounds, and shouldn't take more than about 40 minutes to complete. Start with some 600-800 grit, and work up to 1200 if you want flat, or 1600 if you want a near mirror finish. A final polish with some fine cutting fluid will give a complete mirror if you want. Find a flat piece of glass to attach the sand paper to, as something like a mirror or greenhouse glass will likely not be flat enough. 1/2" + is best for making sure you have a flat surface.

    My X2 3800+ was a little convex. This quick lapping job (up to 1200 grit) reduced temps on both cores by 5c:
    Coolermaster CM 690 II advance Case
    Corsair HX750 (CWT, 91%(80+ Gold rated @230V) single 62A 12V rail
    P55A-UD4 v2.0 @ F14
    Core i5 760 @ 20 x 201, 4.02GHz
    TRUE Black with a single Noctua NF-P12 pumping out 55 CFM @ 19db .
    2 x 2GB Mushkin Ridgeback (996902), @ 7-10-8-27, 2010-DDR, 1.66v
    2 x Gigabyte GTX 460 1024MB in SLI (Pre OC'd to 715MHz core and 1800MHz VRAM) @ 850 Core / 4100 Mem.
    Intel X25-M Boot Drive (OS and Programs) 200MB/s Read & 90MB/s Write
    Corsair X32 200MB/s Read & 100MB/s Write
    WD Caviar Blue 640GB C (Steam, Games, Storage, Temp Files & Folders, etc)
    Samsung F3 500GB Backup/Images
    Noctua 1300RPM 19dB case fan (rear extraction)
    3 x 140 MM Coolermaster LED fans (one front intake, one top extraction, one side intake)
    Dell Ultra Sharp 2209WAf E-IPS @ 1680x1050

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Heat challenge

    Psycho101, having a CPU with that kind of surface would sure be the ticket. My next trip into town, will have to stop at my hardware store and get the items you mentioned.

    Am in no hurry, nor can I afford it but you have a very nice recipe for a robust cooling solution.

    Got to thinking. If you throw out that high temp core's score, i.e. +5 to +8 deg C over the other cores, the Domino did maybe more than just OK to really OK and does have the Xigmatek by a couple of degrees. Anyway, for now I'm satisfied. Am caught between a rock and the poor house. My other hobby, audiophile, is just like computers. You tweak and mix and match for years looking for that perfect combination. If I had all the money back on what I've spent in both hobbies...I sure would not be living in the desert. (Hawaii is the answer)

    You have me wondering about that high temp core. Maybe lapping really would change the game. As I said, nothing wrong with the Domino's exchanger...nicely polished...just needs a nice smooth CPU to mate to. Thanks for the info, I'll give it a try.


  9. #19
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    Default Re: Heat challenge

    Be very careful while lapping. Fortunately your CPU won't have any pins on the back like my X2-3800+ did, but I recommend you use the little anti static box the CPU came in. Cut it down the hinge and cover the connectors with half of it as you lap.

    A good source of sandpaper is an automotive store. I got my stuff from a big UK chain called Halfords. They had papers ranging from 200grit all the way to 2000 grit for about 40 pence a sheet. You may go through a couple of the finer grit sheets as you lap, because as the paper is so fine it simply wears out quick. I suppose also that they're designed to polish paint, and not copper.

    When lapping, use a circular motion for the 600/800 grit and 1000 grit stages. Apply virtually no downward pressure, but make sure any pressure that is applied is even. For the 1200 and possibly 1400 or 1600 stages if you want a complete mirror, and no fine scratches like you can see in my picture, use a straight up and down motion for sanding, and turn the CPU 45 degrees every 30 strokes. On the last grit you'll use, the finest grit, don't turn the CPU at all, use the same direction or you will get minute lines rather than a mirror.

    Don't make the same mistake I did as regards to securing the sandpaper to the glass. I used masking tape, and it just wasn't able to hold the paper in place. Just like with sanding wood, sometimes you get the CPU "jam" on the paper a little, and if not stuck down properly, your CPU, sandpaper or in my case both can go flying.... not good, and rather scary to see. I found a stiff paint brush useful every so often to clean the grain of the sandpaper.

    Aswith anything there is of course a slight risk to your hardware. This risk is minor, and I'm sure you'll have no problem. Care is needed when lapping, and if you get the CPU stick on the paper, stop, lift, brush (don't brush the CPU though... dreaded static). I've lapped 4 CPU's: a 775 P4, two 775 Celerons and the X2-3800 in the picture, and they were all fine. Temperatures decreased by 5-8c in all cases, with the biggest drop of 8c on load with the P4 which was very concave.
    Coolermaster CM 690 II advance Case
    Corsair HX750 (CWT, 91%(80+ Gold rated @230V) single 62A 12V rail
    P55A-UD4 v2.0 @ F14
    Core i5 760 @ 20 x 201, 4.02GHz
    TRUE Black with a single Noctua NF-P12 pumping out 55 CFM @ 19db .
    2 x 2GB Mushkin Ridgeback (996902), @ 7-10-8-27, 2010-DDR, 1.66v
    2 x Gigabyte GTX 460 1024MB in SLI (Pre OC'd to 715MHz core and 1800MHz VRAM) @ 850 Core / 4100 Mem.
    Intel X25-M Boot Drive (OS and Programs) 200MB/s Read & 90MB/s Write
    Corsair X32 200MB/s Read & 100MB/s Write
    WD Caviar Blue 640GB C (Steam, Games, Storage, Temp Files & Folders, etc)
    Samsung F3 500GB Backup/Images
    Noctua 1300RPM 19dB case fan (rear extraction)
    3 x 140 MM Coolermaster LED fans (one front intake, one top extraction, one side intake)
    Dell Ultra Sharp 2209WAf E-IPS @ 1680x1050

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Heat challenge

    thats strange ..you would think.
    On pc cooling principles anyway.
    Cool air high warm air low?
    I stayed in Palm springs CA for awhile the 2 places I was in the vents were grnd level.40-42C oat in summer
    ie run from your a/c car to a/c house before you fry:0
    Anyway I just meant if I was 80F or less in my place,id try n use the a/c air which would neccessarily be cooler than general house temp as a direct input to my pc cooling.
    Ie air comin in at say 65-72F goin directly to my pc id be as cool as anyone on air.Id be messing around with cheap ducting etc.

    On the principle that spot cooling in a warm environment would cost more than than routing the general cooling thru a 500w heat source,mho.
    Current Systems:

    Asrock p67 Extreme6.............. Gigabyte EP-45 UD3 ...................... Gigabyte 73 PVM S2
    Intel i5 2500k 4.8ghz................ Intel Q8400 3.8ghz......................... Intel D820 2.8ghz
    Zalman 10x cooler.................... Coolermaster V8............................ HP cooler
    8GB Gskill ripjaw ddr3.............. 4GB Gskill PI ddr2.......................... 4GB samsung ddr2
    60GB ssd/500GB HDD .............. WD 1TB hdd.................................... Seagate 160GB hdd
    GTX 460 1GB x2 SLI ................. Msi 9600GT 512MB(died) ........... Onboard gx
    Win7 64 ,750w psu(ocz)............ Win7 64 ,520w psu,seasonic...... Win XP pro ,400w psu

    HEC 6A34 case . ....................... Jeantec R2 case............................ Packard Bell case

    hoping to upgrade to http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/habicase.shtml
    http://www.flixya.com/video/140325/Animal-launching

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