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Thread: Q9550 @ 500FSB On EP45-UD3P...




  1. #11
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    Default Re: Q9550 @ 500FSB On EP45-UD3P...

    I think my system is stable just not P95 blend x 24 hours + stable. So storm what do you consider stable? I ran occt for about 7 and 1/2 hours of the 8 hours I had scheduled with no errors. Is that stable? I've ran about 6 and 1/2 hours P95 blend in which it failed. Is that stable?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    I have been running basically 24/7 with those settings, doing everything I want. (haven't tried gaming) Is that stable? I'd say so. <o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    So letís say I run a test for 6 hours and stop it with no errors. Is that stable? I run a test for 12 hours and stop it with no errors is that stable? I run 24, 36, 2 days without errors. Is that stable?<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    But also say I didn't stop those tests at those above indicated error free intervals and they all just so happened to fail at one minute after 6, 12, 24, 36, and two day runs. Is that stable?<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    My settings voltages are genuine and all data submitted verified by CCCS (Colemanís overclockers control systems).<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    Just curious to hear your thoughts on "What's Stable for Stability" Surely with your 10 years experience of OC it's not just subjective information.

    I personally only have been doing this since March so I know I don't know.

    Thanks in advance!

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Q9550 @ 500FSB On EP45-UD3P...

    Running VTT at 1.56V is just asking for trouble. 1.4V max may be a little conservative, so 1.45 is realistic, but that amount of voltage is reckless. You haven't even tried tuning CPU and MCH reference voltages. Seems like all you've done is drag the clock speed up with brute force via a shed load of Vcore, VTT and PLL. It's not that others have voltages to low (and many ARE stable with those voltages) it's tthat you have yours too high, even for a C1 @ 4GHz.

    It's got nothing to do with about being honest about voltages. You may need a higher Vcore than a E0 stepping. You certainly can not say with even 20% certainty that you need such ridiculously high VTT and MCH core without even tuning reference volts.

    With that kind of VTT voltage, I wouldn't turn the PC on for more than a few benchmarks, let alone run it 24/7.... unless I only wanted the CPU to last a couple of months.

    Last edited by Psycho101; 08-04-2009 at 10:59 PM.
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  3. #13

    Default Re: Q9550 @ 500FSB On EP45-UD3P...

    Quote Originally Posted by Storm2313 View Post
    Nice job!!

    I have to try using the 8.5 multiplier its nice to see someone else being honest about the voltage requirements.

    I get quite frustrated reading how right away people post that your using high voltages when they don't take into account variables such as Vdroop and program readings fluctuation.

    500-510 FSB on a quad is quite impressive regardless of voltages used, and considering people can run them stable at that speed 24/7 is icing on the cake!!

    thank you mate, but Im sure you can do the same on lower voltages as well. Try adjusting your CPU/MCH references and see if you can decrease your PLL and VTT voltages.



    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho101 View Post
    Running VTT at 1.56V is just asking for trouble. 1.4V max may be a little conservative, so 1.45 is realistic, but that amount of voltage is reckless. You haven't even tried tuning CPU and MCH reference voltages. Seems like all you've done is drag the clock speed up with brute force via a shed load of Vcore, VTT and PLL. It's not that others have voltages to low (and many ARE stable with those voltages) it's tthat you have yours too high, even for a C1 @ 4GHz.

    It's got nothing to do with about being honest about voltages. You may need a higher Vcore than a E0 stepping. You certainly can not say with even 20% certainty that you need such ridiculously high VTT and MCH core without even tuning reference volts.

    With that kind of VTT voltage, I wouldn't turn the PC on for more than a few benchmarks, let alone run it 24/7.... unless I only wanted the CPU to last a couple of months.

    I think the same way here, also I must say that this motherboard overvolts VTT/MCH/PLL a little (at least in my case /rev 1.1), so the values you see in bios/easytunes are lower than the real ones.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Q9550 @ 500FSB On EP45-UD3P...

    Well Connors I'm glad your system is stable..I agree with your stability testing, and if your results are conclusive in everyday use that's the true test in my opinion.

    I don't understand why everytime someone posts voltages someone trys to tell that person they are using to much..What is your knowledge behind your standings??

    I mean no disrespect to anyone however the truth is..

    Intel really doesn't want us overclocking to begin with, and when you look at it from a logical stand point it's due to money why buy a $350 cpu when you can get the performance from a $200 one..

    What you feel comfortable with your system is fine I won't argue what is actually your opinion. The only problem I find is when explaining to others on the proper voltages to use it seems a little odd no one has sufficient proof of anything other then what works for them...

    The reason behind this is because it's based on yours and everyone elses knowledge from what your comfortable with one person says one thing one another which shows nothing more than we agree to disagree..

    I'm sure your a very competant person with your system and feel your beliefs are correct, but don't be closed minded to what we are actually doing..There really isn't anything safe about playing with fire..Overclocking is a risk and voids your warranty regardless of what you feel is safe.

    This doesn't mean if you run lower voltages than mine your at less of a risk, it simply means your comfortable running with those settings..

    Think about it Intel and AMD say running a cpu overclocked voids your warranty and it doesn't specify if you run cpu voltage core at 1.3 and I run mine at 1.4..They both can induce damage according to them it's a risk we take as enthusiasts..

    I think my point is pretty clear and I hope you see it cause the more research you do on this and any forum on the topic you will find it's the truth..
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    Default Re: Q9550 @ 500FSB On EP45-UD3P...

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho101 View Post
    Running VTT at 1.56V is just asking for trouble. 1.4V max may be a little conservative, so 1.45 is realistic, but that amount of voltage is reckless. You haven't even tried tuning CPU and MCH reference voltages. Seems like all you've done is drag the clock speed up with brute force via a shed load of Vcore, VTT and PLL. It's not that others have voltages to low (and many ARE stable with those voltages) it's tthat you have yours too high, even for a C1 @ 4GHz.

    It's got nothing to do with about being honest about voltages. You may need a higher Vcore than a E0 stepping. You certainly can not say with even 20% certainty that you need such ridiculously high VTT and MCH core without even tuning reference volts.

    With that kind of VTT voltage, I wouldn't turn the PC on for more than a few benchmarks, let alone run it 24/7.... unless I only wanted the CPU to last a couple of months.

    @ Storm In my post about ur voltages being high this is what i meant by it. Vcore is one thing but must people overlook the other voltages. If your confertable running these high voltages then more power to you. I am no expert this is just my opion from what I have seen and read.

    I think you need to take into account that under ET6 you get different readings, as well as under the bios when you boot up.
    ET6 Shows you what you have entered into the bios. If you go into your bios and enter 1.3500 Vcore boot into windows and load up ET6 and look at the voltage tab it will show you 1.3500 Vcore. same thing with other voltages. Using ET6 to change voltages is another thing but it should show you excatly what you have manualy entered into the bios. atleast thats how it works for me. If im wrong im wrong.

    Jumping all over people is not the best way to handle a situation if some one doesnt have the right answers or if its not the answer your looking for. Every thing i say is imo if its a fact i will provide a link to it.
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  6. #16
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    Default Re: Q9550 @ 500FSB On EP45-UD3P...

    Listen I apologize for you feeling I'm jumping on you I'm not.

    I feel you have been told and convinced somewhere that the settings you have are safe to use, and that's great, however I have my own beliefs and the true test to both our opinions is what our sytems are doing..

    I'm sure your system runs superb and it's overclocked with all the care in the world in an effort to reduce heat, maximize cooling, while using the required minimum amount of voltage to sustain your current overclock.

    I have done the same for myself, and both systems are running great. Would I like to lower my voltages more or get 5-6C cooler sure, but I have done my stability testing and found that I am comfortable with my system settings the way they are just like you..

    We as enthusiasts need to realize who we effect when we write posts on settings cause for novices reading them they can get the wrong idea of what might work for them..Your voltages are fine for you, but mine are fine for me..

    Safety in this hobby is marginal at best...Truthfully I don't believe anyone should overclock with stock cooling, or mess around over stock settings till they understand the risks involved..

    As far as the software for temps and voltages what I have come to realize over the years are they are provided as a baseline reference not gospel..One program gives one reading one another..

    Put a setting in an get your reading if your comfortable with it then move on to more stability testing. The truth is once again it boils down to opinion one person says that's hot one person says that's great ..

    I find that todays motherboards are exceptional on protection from heat especially when you can set a warning temp in the bios (Under power management on EP45-UD3P) you can even set it up so the cpu throttles back to help protect from heat issues...these are all there to help protect us and the manufacturer from endless RMA's or worse a lawsuit for fires..
    Last edited by Storm2313; 08-05-2009 at 12:08 AM.
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    Default Re: Q9550 @ 500FSB On EP45-UD3P...

    I don't understand why everytime someone posts voltages someone trys to tell that person they are using to much..What is your knowledge behind your standings??
    If your asking me what is my knowledge behind what I think is right is just the fact this is my first time to overclock. I have had nothing but what I would call quality reliable input and guideance on how and why you tweak various settings. I have asked alot of questions about various settings and how they effect the system. AM I an expert? No in the least but, alot does come with experiance I have to agree. Believe it or not there are some very knowlegeable people here at Tweaktown Gigabyte forums who don't mind sharing their knowledge.

    Intel really doesn't want us overclocking to begin with, and when you look at it from a logical stand point it's due to money why buy a $350 cpu when you can get the performance from a $200 one..
    IMO that is a moot point. I mean what does that have to do with the price of eggs in China?

    This doesn't mean if you run lower voltages than mine your at less of a risk, it simply means your comfortable running with those settings..
    Did I miss something here. Did I or someone else say there wasn't any risk at lower settings? Don't think so but I would say this there is less of a chance of having problems with lower voltages than high.

    JMO
    Last edited by Conners; 08-05-2009 at 12:12 AM.

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    Default Re: Q9550 @ 500FSB On EP45-UD3P...

    Connors congratulations on your first overclock, I don't know what exactly your angered by..

    Let me explain something and make a simple point first of all you clipping quotes from my post, and not putting in the entire context to what I'm talking about is unfair..

    This is not a political debate..

    I wanted to show Intel and AMD are manufacturing cpus to make money..Overclocking kills profit margins by letting consumers more or less steal the other cpu through it's same performance..Why would Intel or an affiliate of Intel say anything other than using higher than required voltage kills the cpu..Most of the knowledge we read are from reviewers of components in forums who are linked to these manufacturers supporting them in one way or another..Common sense..Bottom line scare tactics work..


    Let's say 8 months after you running your voltages at what you consider safe (your voltages are safer than mine according to you) the cpu fails and you try to RMA it with Itel. They tell you, they feel your failure is due to overclocking and running higher voltages than required. You can't say I was running higher, but not much..they will LOL..

    The point is it's a risk REGARDLESS of how high over your voltage is.. Not that your settings lower means less risk it's a risk.. Contact Intel and ask their opinion..

    Do you think they will replace the cpu cause your voltages were lower than mine????

    Please think about what I'm writing it's the truth and I'm sure Intel would agree..Come on...Good luck in all your overclocking endevors..
    Last edited by Storm2313; 08-05-2009 at 12:48 AM.
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  9. #19
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    Default Re: Q9550 @ 500FSB On EP45-UD3P...

    You pound the same line about Intel/AMD not wanting you to over clock.. blah blah. Truith is they really don't give a toss what you do with your CPU after you pay them money to buy it.

    focusing on VTT (C|PU termination) for a second. Your set voltage isn't just high, it's completely excessive and downright dangerous. The recomended iIntel spec for a 45nm chip is 1.100V. Fine, it's safe to say that we can over volt that by more than a little. Searching harder, inthe reams of .pdf's Intel publish on the subject, there is a statement to 1.39V being the absolute upper limit. Again, it's almost safe to say that you'll be OK going a little over that. But to 1.56V? That's an over volt of more than 40% on the recommended. If you were to apply the same logic to Vcore, then I assume you'd say that 1.8V Vcore would be ok?

    The bottom line is, you've made no effort to adjust GTL refs. That's sloppy. really sloppy. Not an opinion, fact.

    The real bottom line with Intel is that they don't have a clue how much voltage you've stuck through your CPU. You could tell them a bare faced lie, and they would only have inconclusive evidence on the condition of the chip to go on. Do you think they'd take the time and trouble to take cross sections of the chip and analyse them? If however the CPU was like a briquette of charcoal underneath, of course they'll deny your RMA, no matter what you said.

    Posting those extremely high VTT values exposes a real gap in your knowledge. You seem to think you've gotten one over on Intel, kind of "Haha, I'll over volt this to kingdom come, and prove you lie about the 2.83GHz spec". You also state that Intel don't support overclocking AND that they'd agree with you? Contradictions ahoy! The only reason why someone from Intel would say that those voltages are ok for a 45nm chip is so they'll get repeat purchase in short time.

    Excess VTT does NOT produce excess heat. VTT is a silent killer. Too little and you won't ever get stable. Too much and you'll have a small paper weight in short time.

    Anandtech's famous "Whoops I killed a QX9650" article:
    "Let this be a warning – do not go over 1.4V maximum for 24/7 use! We are certain that the high VTT voltage and extended testing was the cause of death, as we made no other major or obvious changes within the BIOS that could have instigated a failure. Obviously, we tried to boot the processor in a number of other motherboards without success before we decided to post our results up."
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    "Proper GTL reference level tuning can sometimes allow for a dramatic reduction in VTT and in some severe cases even permits the use of a lower core supply voltage (Vcore).
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    Believe me, it's not just Anandtech carrying this advice. I have included articles from them as they are well respected in all communities. Feel free to link to ANY sane publication advocating more than VTT = 1.45 on a 45nm quad. Ignore it, fine, but not minimising it by at least attempting to tune GTL refs well.... I can't really say more on that without appearing rude and offensive. If you're going to give such high voltages at least aim for a decently high core speed. I doubt you'd need more than 1.6VTT when going for 5-5.5GHz on LN2.

    What you've shown isn't a good overclock. It isn't "What us overclockers do". It's a ham fisted attempt to get the highest core speed simply my giving it "Moar voltz!"

    Actual question: This CPU (E7400 @3.9GHz) is not stable (bombs out of Prime in 2-3 seconds) at the following:
    411*9.5
    Vcore =1.45 in BIOS, 1.42 in CPU-Z
    VTT=1.4V
    CPU Ref = 0.760 @ 1.2VTT (scaling up with the addition of VTT)
    MCH Ref = 0.760 @ 1.2VTT, again scaling up as VTT is added
    MCH Core = 1.24V

    How do I stabilize it? Do I a) crank up all voltages to silly extremes, or b) tune GTL's?

    I have the cash to replace the CPU whenever I want, but why should I? I'll try tuning GTL's instead. From research I've found that many dual cores prefer LOWER GTL ref % than standard, so I go for CPU ref, with no effect. I then lower MCH ref to 0.740V at 1.2VTT, moving VTT back to 1.4 after. I now get ~18 minutes stable in Prime 95. By jove! I think I'm on to something! I lower it further to 0.72V and the next Prime run (Blend) goes for a full 24 hours.

    That's the difference GTL's makes.

    By your definition of risk, do you not believe there are degrees of risk? You have taken no attempt to minimise voltages to use IMO, your stock GTL's tell me that.

    Someone quoting x amount of years overclocking is fine. It does NOT guarantee competency with current technology. Take a high flying city banker that's been out of the game for a year and place him back in the action. He'd be so out of date he'd loose his company millions.

    I would NOT advise anyone to use the voltages quoted here. If you want to use your system for more than a couple of months, do some more work regarding GTL's etc. Then make an informed choice. 1.45VTT on a 45nm is pushing it, and if you want to go higher for the speed you want, do so at your own peril.

    A lot of first time overclockers come here for help, and the thought of any of them looking at that screenshot of ET6 and coppying it's not a nice one to contemplate.
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    Default Re: Q9550 @ 500FSB On EP45-UD3P...

    Is that better for you... just wasted space. I'm not mad, was that you intention? I am just trying to understand why you come on here literally more or less saying my settings and are screen shots are fake. That's the way I take it ne way. I do however believe strongly that you are not running anywhere near those voltages or FSB. What proof did you provide your actually running 500FSB? Nothing but 2 screen shots of ET6 and a little line in your signature.

    I don't give a rat's ass about your Intel/AMD “risk REGUARDLESS” theory. I don't care if they do or don't. They'll either replace it if still under warranty or they won't whoopee doodle do. I’ll just buy a new one. You sound as if you have interest in Intel/AMD stock. LOL

    I’d have to agree with psycho101 on a multitude of his points, one being that you certainly don’t act as if you have 10+ years of oc experience, even if you do doesn’t mean you’re correct. Matter of fact I’d have to say after those ET6 screen shots one would have to wonder.

    As a fellow poster would say I thought I left the WOW forums

    Good Day!
    Last edited by Conners; 08-05-2009 at 02:43 AM.

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