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Thread: Q9550 @ 500FSB On EP45-UD3P...




  1. #21
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    Default Re: Q9550 @ 500FSB On EP45-UD3P...

    Well now that both of you are upset it shows one simple point you don't like people disagreeing with your prospective. I don't pound any line other than overclocking is a risk. You both agree on your voltage OPINIONS Fine..I disagree cause I know what's working for me..We take different roads to reach the same destination...You are no more correct than I..

    Sorry guys there's no Masters Degree to overclocking it's really trial and error aside from all the countless posts..


    The article you refer to about Anandtech has been debunked if you do your research..Which you haven't...Search GOOGLE before posting once again OPINIONS..

    I will say the sorry part is you both feel as if what you are doing takes more skill or your more qualified, but you haven't showed anything other than ANGER..Why cause I disagree that I don't feel my voltages are as fearful as you do..

    I have to say your dual core your talking about is wonderful, but I own a quad core Q9550 once again apples to oranges. The motherboard article your talking about GTL reference tuning is great if you want advice on tuning those settings, but what you say about VTT being a silent killer is more opinion than truth..Many overclockers run above that voltage fine with adequate system cooling..Check GOOGLE to believe what I'm saying..

    Sounds to me you saying my overclock "isn't acceptable" and "ham fisted" sounds like your uncertain of your own achievments..Can't take someone posting something else they find is working for them..

    Overclocking isn't " well you have the same part as me so we can set the voltages the same and your set"..Each component and system is a different monster and needs to be adjusted for such..

    Relax have a drink and understand this isn't grade school and I'm not here to insult anyone. I'm stating a fact you both have issues with..

    Connors as far as you not caring and judging my expierence that's your choice I won't be losing sleep.. One thing I will say is learning to understand what is and isn't true will have to be learned and this being your first overclock will take some time..

    I thought we could be honest and listen to others thoughts before flaming posts..Unfortunetly all you both have provided is your opinion on overclocking which is not any better than mine ..DEAL WITH IT..
    Last edited by Storm2313; 08-05-2009 at 04:25 AM.
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  2. #22
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    Default Re: Q9550 @ 500FSB On EP45-UD3P...

    The article can be debunked as much as it likes, it doesn't mean it's wrong. Those debunking it are expressing oppinion too. If I want to express an opinion I'll do so. I've said on here a few times before that there's a certain flexibility with commonly believed "safe values", and my advice was that if it needs a little more voltage than people will recommend, make a judgement. If you can live with the judgement then fine. All I see here is someone who's cranked the dial up to get what he wants, and not bothered with the fine tuning.

    How the hell does me saying that your approach is ham fisted have ANYTHING to do with my system or how I have it set? Beleive me, the reaction to seeing the voltages EasyTune is displaying for your config certainly wasn't "Oh my god! My PC is sh1t compared to this! Maybe I haven't got things set up right? Maybe I need to ram excessive voltages up its arse to reach 4GHz? Maybe he has a bigger willy than me?" Give me a break.

    My personal example is valid for what I stated it to demonstrate, and that was clearly as said, the value of tuning GTL's. GTL tuning holds true for Quads too. I also own a Q8200 that was run at 7*486 quite comfortably after an increase in CPU GTL, where as before, 460 was the max even with 1.45VTT. The end 3.4GHz frequency was perfectly stable with 1.28VTT after the GTL change. We're not talking huge figures here, obviously given the Q8200 is a low binned CPU, and hasn't broken the 3.65GHz barrier on any OC data bases I've seen.

    Again, I repeat the fact that you have GTL's on stock levels. Have you even TRIED changing them? You seem to be concentrating on the thins that are easy to argue about, but not the ones that are a proven fact. As I quoted, correct tuning (not leaving them on auto), of GTL's avoids the need for stupidly high VTT. I class your VTT voltage as stupid. Not an insult, just my opinion.

    I can deal with it quite well thank you very much. I really don't give a toss if your system / CPU goes t1ts up in the next few months, I just don't want anyone coming here to be inspired by a VTT of 1.56V with ZERO GTL tuning.

    Everyone's free to post what they like, but if you posted under the illusion that those are nice numbers, even for a C1, you'd be mistaken.

    BTW, may I ask how one opinion can be "better" than another? I didn't think that was possible. Wars are fought over opinion, and I'm sure if there were a way to verify which opinion were "better", then those wars would be over.

    I will clarify my position. Don't take this as me being angry, or whatever. I don't care what you do with your equipment.

    If anyone is looking at these settings and is new to overclockiong, don't pump 1.56V through the FSB. If that's what it takes in the end to get the speed you want, and you don't care if the CPU only works for a few months then go ahead and do so. However think if you can afford to buy a new one or note. Replacing a Q9550 willingly sounds like a more money than sense thing to me, for another 200MHz that will make little difference. When you read "this is what us overclockers do" ignore that statement. this is what some people do as they have a limitless pot of cash to replace what they break, or just plain don't care. An overclocker gets as much performance from a component as is safely possible. There ARE degrees of risk, and 1.56V is a much bigger risk than 1.4V.

    I'd invite you to post on somewhere like Xtremesystems.org, and see what they think. I'd bet my bottom dollar that with in the first couple of posts, VTT and GTL Refs will be mentioned. I also bet that you'll think that everyone is against your opinion, and will refuse to verify whether you've tried changing GTL's seriously or if in your ignorance, you don't believe it necessary.

    I have a feeling the only opinion you'd find "as good as" or "better" is one that agrees with you and praises your voltages/settings, and condones the use of "65nm-like" VTT on a 45nm quad.

    Prove us wrong, set VTT to 1.3 and start tuning GTL's, working up to 1.45VTT. If you don't want to do that, that's fine, your choice. If you haven't already done that, there's no way in hell you can justify the high voltage and say you "need" it.
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  3. #23
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    Default Re: Q9550 @ 500FSB On EP45-UD3P...

    You like to post and post so be it.

    You have once again went on for a page that proves nothing more than OPINION..

    What is the point at what your trying to do?? I guess if I disagree that I won't make adjustments to certain settings I'm wrong..yet I'm still running 500FSB @ 4GHZ.

    First of all anyone reading this discussion please understand that what is being said by Psycho101 has not been proven it's NOT FACT...Sorry but like I said DEAL WITH IT..

    You write : "If anyone is looking at these settings and is new to overclockiong, don't pump 1.56V through the FSB. If that's what it takes in the end to get the speed you want, and you don't care if the CPU only works for a few months then go ahead and do so."

    What you wrote makes no sense..I have come to my settings through testing and found stability using what I have listed...I am honest about overclocking and you should be too..

    You think your risk is less than mine PLEASE SHOW PROOF.. Looks like another OPINION, or like I said call Intel and tell them your using less voltage overclocking so your cpu should be alright and be covered under warranty..Let us know how hard they laugh...It's safer right..you really need to evaluate the way you think..

    All I was postng for was to find out other people running 500FSB with a Q9550 and for some ungodly reason this banter started over my voltages because I disagree with YOUR OPINIONS.. After reading your Anandtech come back that:

    "The article can be debunked as much as it likes, it doesn't mean it's wrong."

    Just goes to show that other people are HAPPILY running their quads at higher voltages and without killing the cpu ooooooo scary talk..

    Don't deny the fact that you hate people that don't agree with you.. My settings are wrong and yours are right

    I only agree with what your comfortable with that's what matters..Don't let anyone claim to have all the answers..They don't period..Even the two people who don't like others achievments cause they disagree with voltages used to get there..

    After your done trying to tell everyone reading your flaming posts about my settings maybe you can enlighten us on what makes you a mesiah overclocker??

    Just what I thought ... Sorry Posting allot in this forum doesn't cut it..
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  4. #24
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    Default Re: Q9550 @ 500FSB On EP45-UD3P...

    Theres nothing wrong with Conner's figures.
    They dont really work for me because after about 485-490 fsb everything is very dependent on individual components.

    If I had his memory and cpu type I could probably get em to work but maybe not because of whatever differences there are between UD3 ICH10 and ICH10R,and the slightly different bios and mbrd heatsink types.You cant discount psu standard output voltages either once you get towards limits.

    He has tested hi mhz increases v methodically over a few months,more than I would have.

    The lowest voltages on whatever adjustment ,that u need for any given speed should be the best .

    The auto cpu termination and Pll voltages go very high almost exponentially so around the 500 fsb mark..1,7+ and 1.85+ shouldnt be needed.Im not saying the pc wont run happily enogh or it will blow up while testing.
    But with everything, if you have overkill applied,reduce it down to see what you can get away with as usual.

    On intel cpus and what they want/dont want u to do I still think they build in a 50% approx above standard maxmultiplier o/clock potential on air cooling and approx 66% on water for most of their cpus
    Ive no reason to think they dont especially if using their controller chipsets.
    If it was 40 % we would see it or 60% on air would show too?

    Im not a great fan of cpuz validation i had a 3.57 ghz validation which i could probably get again or more likely 3.65,but i never really quoted it because it doesnt mean much.

    Theres a wealth of information in Conners posts ,tho I cant explain why I should get a(shown) cpu temp of 85C while trying to emulate his settings but they work for him.

    Id like to see some post which would enable me to run my memory with pl 9 at 500fsb/max cpu multiplier at less than 1.39Vcpuz/any monitoring program.I dont think its going to happen anytime soon tho.

    when I said 1.35 above its like the reported cpu voltage for quads with max multiplier at 500 fsb is around that .490 somewhere between 1.31 and 1.35.
    510 ,1.41.
    515-530 1.43-1.53V.
    At 1.50 V+ you better be blowing v hard into the case tho or have lots of dry ice handy.

    I think below 1.36V running and yer quad blows up you can complain .. 1.36-1.4 youll probly be ok in a "dangermouse" way.1.4+ if anything bad happensTS on you.

    Reboot/startup is going to put the most strain on all components.thats when surges are most likely, so if the pc doesnt post /reboot on the first cycle you may be pushing things too much.

    Check out ripping.org to see how the "rich people " push it
    Last edited by kick; 08-05-2009 at 10:30 AM.
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  5. #25
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    Default Re: Q9550 @ 500FSB On EP45-UD3P...

    Thank you for your input Kick however I think my point is made..

    I run a voltage which for me provides stability, and everyone else should do the same as long as they are comfortable with the risk..

    I have run my system over 8 months now and it's running fine. I say "if it ain't broke don't fix it"..

    There's nothing wrong with being precise about your goal, but to be honest I bought my system to enjoy daily, not to run a battery of tests for months...

    Too each his own..
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  6. #26
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    Default Re: Q9550 @ 500FSB On EP45-UD3P...

    The only point you've made is that you like to twist conversations so that you end up looking right. Sorry but you didn't succeed.

    Everything you post is your opinion.... And for god sake HOW DARE YOU tell me what I'm saying.

    Again, you provide no meat to your reasoning to running such a high level of VTT, not even "I tried GTLs and it didn't work" if you have tried tuning GTL's to get that voltage down then fair enough. If you understand the risk (and don't be stupid, with higher voltage DOES come higher risk, it's electronics 101, screw overclocking) then fine, run what you want.

    All I've done is question what you've actually DONE. And it comes down to, from what you've posted that you've arbitrarily ramped up VTT like you're working on a Q6600 on a P35.

    I haven't said, or indicated in any way that I'm a "Messiah of overclocking". You on the other hand, by implying that my opinion is so wrong are implying it to yourself by proxy. Merely by asking me to "proove myself" you're trying to big yourself up. Pathetic!

    Do you not understand??!?? THERE IS NO PROOF. It's likelihood and chance. If you beleive there is the same or less risk running something at a higher overvolt than a lower overvolt, then your logic needs some work.

    If you want a practical lesson in how voltage effects electronics, then do the following: Get a molex powered 12V fan. Plug the red wire into 12V and the black wire into -12v. Congrats, you've just overclocked your fan to 24V. How long before it goes POP? Do you think you've increased the risk of doing so? If you had a potentiometer on one wire, I wonder at what level it would fail? Say if blew at 20.5V almost instantly. Does that mean that everything under that will be fine because it SEEMS to be turning at 19V and not going bang? Or have you increased the likelihood of its failure?

    Do you not get it? I don't have to prove decreased reliability with excessive over voltage. It's a fact. It may not manefest itself immediately, or even at all, but to deny that fact is pretty stupid. And if you want to see proof, get off your ass and do your own googling. Better still, PM VorLonUK, I'm sure he'll be able to explain much better than me about what happens when you feed something more than its design spec. And Intel isn't laughing at you, they do actually set the specs for a reason. They have to verify the components will work in less than ideal conditions. Just because you provide ideal conditions, doewsn't mean there's not an adverse effect.

    I presume you posted this thread because you hmm.... wanted to show off? or wahnted others to learn from you? You need a few lessons your self. I will ask once more, a direct question:

    Have you tried tuning GTL Refs?

    You already have Vcore set, MCH core set, this would take a few hours to complete, not days, unless you're really inept.

    I fail to see what was hard to understand about my statement. It is accurate, and is intended for anyone stumbling upon this as a beginner:

    "If anyone is looking at these settings and is new to overclockiong, don't pump 1.56V through the FSB. If that's what it takes in the end to get the speed you want, and you don't care if the CPU only works for a few months then go ahead and do so."

    Let me explain. Your constant dodging of if you've sorted GTL's leads me to reasonably believe you've just cranked up Vcore, VTT and MCH Core without thinking of anything else! The first line refers to this. Some may think that just copying what you have there will give them a great overclock, and it won't. Your attitude of
    to be honest I bought my system to enjoy daily, not to run a battery of tests for months
    leads me to believe you've done exactly what I've said, mashed the page down key on a few settings until it works.

    I see no reference as to how you've proven stability. And don't say "It doesn't crash in games". I can get this chip to 4.2GHz and not crash in games.

    I'll repeat this once again for clarity, and hopefully it will get through this time. I don't care what your run your rig at. I don't care about the longevity of your components. What I don't like is someone who has their head up their arse. All that crap about "More voltage doesn't increase risk, prove it"... come on, of you don't understand the concept then I doubt you should be let near any thing electronic or electrical. What's next? Over volting your mains power to 160V? You might be able to overclock your refrigerator with that. Things will cook in the microwave in 2/3 the time.... or maybe things will start going pop. By your logic they have just as much chance of failing as they did at 120V.
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  7. #27
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    Default Re: Q9550 @ 500FSB On EP45-UD3P...

    Psycho your user name certainly fits you..

    I have to say your quite insulting, considering the only issue you have with me is I won't agree with you..TOO BAD!!

    Look after reading your posts the main thing people are going to get from what your saying is you severe problems with your own abilities..
    Who cares what GTL REFS settings I'm using if I'm content with my overclock?????????????

    You are upset cause someone challenged your OPINION and may have put question in other peoples mind as to what they have been reading all along from people like you..TOO BAD!!

    Look anyone reading these posts please read them from the beginning to the end then I suggest doing a little GOOGLE research on Q9550 @500 FSB..You will find MANY PEOPLE RUN MY SETTINGS AND ARE FINE.

    All I say is do the research and make your own judgement, but don't believe you can't hit 500FSB with a Q9550 without following Psycho's Gospel!! "I bet you most have hit it or the ability too" until a person similar to Psycho says "your gonna kill your cpu, or it's not safe to run at those voltages"

    Guess what People like you will NEVER get anywhere with a self rightous attitude that you are elite and everyone needs to do it your way or else they are insulted..

    I can prove one FACT that you have no expeirence with my Q9550 C1 and any claiming you can do better is no more than you feeling inferior when someone runs the system they way they want..

    OCCT 3.1 was used to provide me knowledge of stability and the system works FLAWLESS for over 8 months..I guess I'm just lucky or maybe could it be I found something that worked for my individual system???

    I hope some people with questions on how to hit 500 fsb at least read these posts cause maybe some light is being shed on a couple of "Know it all people" that hate others achievments..

    Hey Psycho heres a FACT you have nothing in common with my system other than my motherboard, how do you claim to know what I need in voltage requirements??? Guess what you can't..that's right people as discussed before even if all components are exactly the same there is no way to know if they will perform the same...To be honest I 'm using F8 bios so your not even the same in respects to that..

    Psycho good luck to you and your GTL REFS I apologize for my system achieving an overclock MY way and hope you can fit your ego comfortably in your home...

    Anyone having any questions I'm always there to help..I truly believe hitting 500 FSB STABLE is possible for anyone with this chip and board..
    The truth is if you use psycho's way or mine as long as you get there and your happy is what matters..
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  8. #28
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    Default Re: Q9550 @ 500FSB On EP45-UD3P...

    Be careful Psycho101 you’ll be accused of being upset/angry person. (O I C he called you a psycho). I am still wondering why this posts exists. Is it a Jr. High School debate class assignment? Is it a lesson in liberal policies on if you can’t grasp the truth ignore the questions and attack the person? (See storms last post and others I’m sure).

    I decide to go back and reread storms posts to understand his opinion and challenge his opinion as he says he does with psycho101. I am also positive I will be told I’m upset or angry for the challenge. So here's page 1 of 3 or 4 pages (unknown @ this time) of his posts and my questions and or observations. Let’s see if we can get some answers. Mind you these are JMO/O Also keep in mind when challenging a liberal to be watchful of a personal attack or subject change to avoid answering the question.

    I know how much my friend storm likes quotes so here’s a few.

    Quote Originally Posted by by storm2313
    looked at it, but to be honest the voltage settings are quite low.

    I see he has an E0 stepping CPU so it makes sense to be somewhat on the low side, but they still seem a little low for stability.
    This is just a subjective opinion don’t you think?

    Quote Originally Posted by by strom2313
    My current snapshot of system voltages with C1 stepping.
    These settings are stable under OCCT 3.1..
    No actual proof shown of OCCT running these settings. Just shows of ET6 that proves nothing. Would you mind providing a shot of OCCT running your ET6 settings you provided?

    Quote Originally Posted by by storm2313
    CPU and FSB speed..
    Idle temps 28-29C to full load 70C..
    Again only a shot of ET6, no proof of actually running any of the settings in OCCT, P95, LinX, IBT or any other form of testing or monitoring. No way to verify his temps or load. Would you mind providing a shot of the settings you provided in ET6 running P95 Blend or one of the others?

    Quote Originally Posted by by storm2313
    ET6 as well as all programs to determine temps and voltages are inaccurate to some degree they are to be used as a guidline only.
    Sounds like an opinion to me what proof do you have. Links please…

    Quote Originally Posted by by storm2313
    think you need to take into account that under ET6 you get different readings, as well as under the bios when you boot up..
    Please look at the window with cpu speed and fsb and you will see the cpu voltage is 1.4 under ET6 under voltages its 1.44 (showing a variance and yes I do have load line enabled.
    Can you provide evidence of your opinions?

    Quote Originally Posted by by storm2313
    I have to say that being cautious with your components is a good thing, as long as you realize that a spark still makes a fire...
    Would you mind providing links to your opinion that a spark still makes a fire and the relation of such to the motherboard?

    Quote Originally Posted by by storm2313
    I'm sure we all have a point at which we say we won't increase voltage anymore or I'm content with what I gained however I have to say in the time I have been overclocking (Give or take 10 years with a multitude of hardware) I myself have never exceeded the components abilitys basically due to common sense..
    I have no problem with your high voltages if that’s what you want. Intel says the max CPU Terminal voltage is 1.45, CPU Voltage is also 1.45 which you’re slightly under. But you say in your ten years of overclocking you never exceeded the components ability basically due to common sense. But would a CPU termination of 1.56; knowing that Intel says the max is 1.45; basically rule out common sense? Also can you provide links to your opinion as to why you choose these settings?

    Quote Originally Posted by by storm2313
    It's your system and your right you have different stepping than I, but don't limit yourself with unproven theory of over volting right away. You have a great system with high quality components. I believe cooling is important and voltage is also for you to reach a 42% overclock on your chip..
    Is this subjective information or can you provide links behind your opinion?

    Quote Originally Posted by by storm 2313
    I have to try using the 8.5 multiplier its nice to see someone else being honest about the voltage requirements.
    Subjective information IMO. Is he saying if you’re not using higher voltages you must be lying?

    Quote Originally Posted by by storm 2313
    I get quite frustrated reading how right away people post that your using high voltages when they don't take into account variables such as Vdroop and program readings fluctuation.
    So I wonder if he’s frustrated that other people can achieve higher over clocks with lower voltages and he can’t. Is this the reason for his behavior? Would you please provide links and such of your opinion on using high voltage taking into account of variables such as Vdroop and program readings differences? And how they influenced you decision making on using the higher voltages?

    Thanks in advance!
    Conners
    Last edited by Conners; 08-06-2009 at 02:32 AM. Reason: changed a } to a ]

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Q9550 @ 500FSB On EP45-UD3P...

    I don't want you to agree with me? How many times do I have to tell you that?

    I believe you have me wrong. there is no anger or animosity in my posts apart from in direct response to (i assume) an antagonistic response from you.

    If you had stated that in your original post, you'd done everything you could, including GTL tuning (takes mere hours plus 1 final Prime run, worst case a 6 hour fail, one more adjustment, then done), then I'd have no problem with you using such a high voltage. I'd have advised you to go back to something like 3.8GHz with a sub 1.44VTT, but that if you really wanted 4GHz and that was the way to get it GO FOR IT!

    I have taken a DMM to my board and for me, at 1.4Vtt reads 1.4143V. This slight error gets worse. I have used a dead E7200 (gets into BIOS fine, crashes on windows load, static dammage) to go up to 1.64VTT (wanted 1.65, but not possible) and the reading was 1.6844V. It seems that the slight over volt gets worse on my board as you go up in voltage.

    Please don't think I'm stupid, or lack knowledge in a certain area just because I don't mention it in my posts. I am well aware that using software to measure voltages is rough at best. that's a given as far as I'm concerned, and 99% of other people (including regulars like Kick, Conners, others in this thread and more) are also aware of that. It doesn't always mean that the voltages displayed will actually be less, just off. The voltage sensors are no more accurate IMO than Core sensors (DTS)... well maybe slightly better.

    I suppose what did aner me was the refusal to believe that with increased voltage comes increased risk. This is a fundamental truth. It's physics. There's a tollerence for each individual component, but with extra voltage over that tollenrence comes a risk that scales with the extra used. I don't know what that risk is. It could be so miniscule that it's not worth bothering with, it could be as Storm says, 8 months to a year then BANG! or in someone elses machine (people will look here and copy you, it's a support forum, not an enthusiast only page) they could end up with dead components in under 2 months. There is risk. The risk starts at above 1.100VTT for a 45 nm, and according to Intel is acceptible up to ~1.4VTT. I beleive (personal oppinion, the risk at 1.44VTT is virtually the same but I could be wrong, and the scaling of risk could be exponential.

    You have it stuck in your head that I'm jealous. I am not. If I had even the slightest incling of jealousy, and felt that my system was inferior to yours, I'd pop down to the bank, draw out 500 and buy an i7 920 D0, UD5P and 6 GB of RAM. I could run that all day long at 4.2GHz, keep pace with you in games AND beat you by around 25% in video encoding, audio, general purpose computing. Jealousy isn't the issue. I'm a gamer. The difference between a 3.9GHz dual and 4GHz quad is so small it's immeasurable in most games. You of course would get much better performance in grand Theft Auto 4, but I'm not a fan of that kind of game, so it's cool.

    You use words like "know it all" and "Hate" yet do not answer any of my genuine questions. The purpose of this forum is to help others learn. I've done my fair share of that IMO, and have also learnt a great deal in return. I wouldn't have gotten this system to where it is without some information from here.

    I'm frustrated that you carry on trying to tell me I'm saying this and that when I am not, without answering the simple question "Have you tried reducing VTT by tuning GTL Ref values". If you have not, how can you see your settings as an example to others when you haven't done all the necessary work to be able to say "These are definitely the voltages I need"? Need being the operative word.
    Last edited by Psycho101; 08-06-2009 at 02:39 AM.
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  10. #30

    Default Re: Q9550 @ 500FSB On EP45-UD3P...

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho101 View Post

    I have taken a DMM to my board and for me, at 1.4Vtt reads 1.4143V. This slight error gets worse. I have used a dead E7200 (gets into BIOS fine, crashes on windows load, static dammage) to go up to 1.64VTT (wanted 1.65, but not possible) and the reading was 1.6844V. It seems that the slight over volt gets worse on my board as you go up in voltage.

    check the PLL/MCH too mate... fluctuations are quite noticiable at idle/load states

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