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Thread: Q9550 @ 500FSB On EP45-UD3P...




  1. #61
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    Default Re: Q9550 @ 500FSB On EP45-UD3P...

    I'd say lock this thread Lsdmeasap.

    Seems that the guy thinks I'm stifling his creativity. I have nothing against his opinion, but the recommendations in this post are just dangerous to those new to overclocking .

    To summarise, using a 1.56VTT, openly admitting to not touching MCH and CPU references to sort it out and then recommending this method to people as an alternative is just reckless.
    I'm not fussed if the guy thinks it's ok for his machine, but openly recommending that everyone else should try it while simultaneously proving he has an IQ lower than a German Shepherd dog (and they have an IQ of 60), and twisting every little point to his warped agenda has eroded my self control.

    He even quotes people and explains what they mean... which is really useful. Taking "Don't adjust GTL refs if you are stable" isn't the same as saying "Even if you're pumping silly voltages through the FSB, don't adjust references to lower that voltage, evn if it's a conclusively proven method of doing so".

    I'm still laughing at the fact that he seems to think I have to prove excessive VTT kills components. That's not the issue,and if he wants to use 1.56V because he HAS TO, that's fine, whatever. The point is, he hasn't even tried methods proven to reduce the need for VTT voltage. That point alone is the one that's infuriating me. Advising others to do this is just a blatant disregard for other peoples property.

    I understand if people don't want to read this thread in full to get what's going on. Anyone reading it as a novice should be saved from possibly making a fatal mistake with their expensive equipment.

    Locked would be great. Deleted would be even better.
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  2. #62
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    Default Re: Q9550 @ 500FSB On EP45-UD3P...

    This all started cause you claimed high VTT voltage will kill your cpu now you continue to ridicule me and it's surprising you haven't shown any proof to what you claim..

    I feel someone criticizing someone else with referring their IQ to a German Sheapard would and should make them defend themselves..This has went on from him all along due to his closed minded thinking and proves nothing to the novice readers he claims to be protecting...

    I'm telling you their is nothing definitive about adjusting ANY VOLTAGES..

    Your opinion once again comes into play, as its been discussed many people have adjusted them and found NO IMPROVEMENTS.. I myself don't find they require adjusting due to me being content on system stability and comfortable with my according to you high voltages..

    LSD should not lock a thread for debating opinions, but blatant BASHING is all you have done from your original post..your snotty self rightous and have little respect for anyone but your buddys...

    I'm telling you to prove to me that anything you said here is true and factual ..you can't sorry pal your misinforming people are we to believe in all the world there is only claim to this myth and that's your little debunked Anandtech forum..

    You have to try to convince novices that they will kill there cpus if they don't listen to your UNPROVEN theorys..YOUR A HACK..

    Fact of the matter is you have not tried to learn anything from my postings cause your a know it all ...Instead of admitting you may be wrong you always keep reiterating MCH VOTAGE adjustment means VTT voltage will go down and THAT ONCE AGAIN HAS NOT BEEN PROVEN..

    I'm open for the real overclockers who speak to someone with respect and even though we don't agree with using the same settings agree on what works for each other..That's the true fun in what we do your an insult to all of us enthusiasts..

    I don't remember anyone on these forums proving any settings other than what is or isn't working for them..I want everyone especially novices to know the truth and the truth is what we are doing is unsafe at any degree..(read the manual that came with your motherboard or cpu and the disclosure is their in black and white)..

    Claiming that I'm unsafe and your safe is ridiculous and until you show me or anyone proof of your VTT myth being a killer your holding people back from possible performance increases due to scare tactics...

    The proof in all these posts are you haven't proved anything other than you think your right and my system is still working fine...I must be the only one in the world running with my VTT that high right?????

    To disagree with me is fine to say I'm wrong is a blatant lie and shows you lack the possability to learn what works for me may work for others and it should be up to each person as an individual as to what there comfortable with especially being you have no proof of any damage to a cpu with my settings..

    I also lke the way you tell LSD to lock the thread...He must need your permission right??
    Last edited by Storm2313; 08-16-2009 at 11:24 AM.
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    Default Re: Q9550 @ 500FSB On EP45-UD3P...

    from: Speaking Quotes, Communication Sayings [QuoteGarden.com]

    Quotations about Speaking

    To speak and to speak well are two things. A fool may talk, but a wise man speaks. ~Ben Jonson

    If you wouldn't write it and sign it, don't say it. ~Earl Wilson

    Two monologues do not make a dialogue. ~Jeff Daly

    Of those who say nothing, few are silent. ~Thomas Neiel

    The older I grow the more I listen to people who don't talk much. ~Germain G. Glien

    Most conversations are simply monologues delivered in the presence of a witness. ~Margaret Millar

    To be able to ask a question clearly is two-thirds of the way to getting it answered. ~John Ruskin

    There is no such thing as conversation. It is an illusion. There are intersecting monologues, that is all. ~Rebecca West (Cicily Maxwell Andrews), "The Harsh Voice," There Is No Conversation, 1935

    By swallowing evil words unsaid, no one has ever harmed his stomach. ~Winston Churchill

    The kindest word in all the world is the unkind word, unsaid. ~Author Unknown

    Talking is like playing on the harp; there is as much in laying the hands on the strings to stop their vibration as in t****ing them to bring out their music. ~Oliver Wendell Holmes

    People have to talk about something just to keep their voice boxes in working order so they'll have good voice boxes in case there's ever anything really meaningful to say. ~Kurt Vonnegut, Jr., Cat's Cradle

    Euphemisms are unpleasant truths wearing diplomatic cologne. ~Quentin Crisp

    Well-timed silence hath more eloquence than speech. ~Martin Farquhar Tupper, "Of Discretion," Proverbial Philosophy

    The true genius shudders at incompleteness - and usually prefers silence to saying something which is not everything it should be. ~Edgar Allan Poe

    The trouble with talking too fast is you may say something you haven't thought of yet. ~Ann Landers

    Everything becomes a little different as soon as it is spoken out loud. ~Hermann Hesse

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing at the right place but to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment. ~Dorothy Nevill

    The easiest way to save face is to keep the lower half shut. ~Author Unknown

    Even a fish wouldn't get into trouble if he kept his mouth shut. ~Author Unknown

    Among my most prized possessions are words that I have never spoken. ~Orson Rega Card

    Be careful of your thoughts; they may become words at any moment. ~Ira Gassen

    Silence is one of the hardest arguments to refute. ~Josh Billings

    Foolishness always results when the tongue outraces the brain. ~Author Unknown

    The words you choose to say something are just as important as the decision to speak. ~Author Unknown

    Among provocatives, the next best thing to good preaching is bad preaching. I have even more thoughts during or enduring it than at other times. ~Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Let a fool hold his tongue and he will pass for a sage. ~Pubilius Syrus

    An inability to stay quiet is one of the conspicuous failings of mankind. ~Walter Bagehot

    It is better to keep one's mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and resolve all doubt. ~Abraham Lincoln

    I am annoyed by individuals who are embarrassed by pauses in a conversation. To me, every conversational pause refreshes. ~George Sanders

    Isn't it surprising how many things, if not said immediately, seem not worth saying ten minutes from now? ~Arnot L. Sheppard, Jr.

    It is impossible to speak in such a way that you cannot be misunderstood. ~Karl Popper, Unended Quest

    Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret. ~Ambrose Bierce

    Drawing on my find command of language, I said nothing. ~Robert Charles Benchley

    Don't tell your friends about your indigestions: "How are you!" is a greeting, not a question. ~Arthur Guiterman, A Poet's Proverbs

    Once a word has been allowed to escape, it cannot be recalled. ~Horace

    Don't speak unless you can improve on the silence. ~Spanish Proverb

    One of the lessons of history is that nothing is often a good thing to do and always a clever thing to say. ~Will Durant

    If writers wrote as carelessly as some people talk, then adhasdh asdglaseuyt[bn[ pasdlgkhasdfasdf. ~Lemony Snicket

    Blessed is the man who, having nothing to say, abstains from giving evidence of the fact. ~George Eliot, Impressions of Theophrastus Such, 1879

    Calvin: Sometimes when I'm talking, my words can't keep up with my thoughts. I wonder why we think faster than we speak.
    Hobbes: Probably so we can think twice.
    ~Bill Watterson, Calvin & Hobbes

    Not the fastest horse can catch a word spoken in anger. ~Chinese Proverb

    Never miss a good chance to shut up. ~Will Rogers (verification of author per The Estate of Will Rogers, CMG Worldwide)

    One way to prevent conversation from being boring is to say the wrong thing. ~Frank Sheed

    Talk to people about themselves and they will listen for hours. ~Benjamin Disraeli

    Discussion is an exchange of knowledge; argument an exchange of ignorance. ~Robert Quillen

    Coolidge was known for his terse speech and reticence. A woman bet her friend that she could get Coolidge to speak to her, which was something he was reluctant to do. She went up to him and said: "Hello, Mr. President, I bet my friend that I could get you to say three words to me." "You lose," Coolidge replied dryly, and walked away. ~Author Unknown

    The difference between a smart man and a wise man is that a smart man knows what to say, a wise man knows whether or not to say it. ~Frank M. Garafola

    I just wish my mouth had a backspace key. ~Author Unknown

    No man would listen to you talk if he didn't know it was his turn next. ~E.W. Howe

    He's a wonderful talker, who has the art of telling you nothing in a great harangue. ~Jean Baptiste Moličre, Le Misanthrope

    The trouble with her is that she lacks the power of conversation but not the power of speech. ~George Bernard Shaw

    If you keep your mouth shut you will never put your foot in it. ~Austin O'Malley

    If everybody thought before they spoke, the silence would be deafening. ~George Barzan

    Man does not live by words alone, despite the fact that sometimes he has to eat them. ~Adlai Stevenson

    The most important thing in communication is hearing what isn't being said. ~Author Unknown

    In the course of my life, I have often had to eat my words, and I must confess that I have always found it a wholesome diet. ~Winston Churchill

    The best way to keep one's word is not to give it. ~Napoleon I, Maxims

    Keep your words soft and tender because tomorrow you may have to eat them. ~Author Unknown

    Always and never are two words you should always remember never to use. ~Wendell Johnson

    Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand. ~Author Unknown

    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. ~Author unknown, attributed to Mark Twain

    When you're arguing with a fool, make sure he isn't doing the same thing. ~Author Unknown

    Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut. ~Ernest Hemingway
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  4. #64
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    Default Re: Q9550 @ 500FSB On EP45-UD3P...

    Higher than 1.45 Vtt can and often will cause permanent damage to your CPU (45nm instance). How much more, or how quickly this will happen is not know. What is know, as documented by these Intel Documents in that it can cause permanent damage and or degradation.

    Excessive Vtt and or PLL has always been known to damage or kill processors, just how much and how quickly is not a definite due to the sensitive nature of silicon and varying power delivery methods.

    Vtt and 45nm CPU's is a largely debated thing especially after Anandtech's QX9650 Article This thread continues to show that the debate continues. The article was never proven to show that Vtt was solely to blame or anything else in particular killed this CPU, only what he believed it to be. There was to many variables that must be considered as well to be sure and so the debate rolls on across many forums with widely varying opinions on the subject.

    45nm Quad Core 9xxx series Data sheet



    http://download.intel.com/design/pro...hts/318726.pdf


    P45 Chipset Data Sheet



    http://www.intel.com/Assets/PDF/datasheet/319970.pdf


    I refuse to state my personal opinion here on this because I would hate to further carry on this debate other than the above stated documents.

    What a user chooses to do to his processor after reading the above documents and gather information from others gained knowledge via either personal use or web-gathered knowledge from other knowledgeable overclockers is up to those users.

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    Default Re: Q9550 @ 500FSB On EP45-UD3P...

    Thanks for that info Lsdmeasap, very informative.

    I understand you not wanting to convey personal opinion here, it's due to your professionalism, I understand.

    Me loosing my rag in this post was more to do with ignorant attitudes rather than "wanting to be right".

    I just don't get how ignoring GTL's as a method of reducing VTT is "thinking outside the box". TBH, anyone can jab the page up/page down key to get voltages that work. The skill comes in balancing all tools (voltages) availible to come up with an over all configuration that is considered my many to be safe, cool and efficient.

    Keeping this thread on track, rather than ranting: Lsd, do you have any comment on the merits of adjusting GTL's to facilitate the reduction in VTT needed at a given clock speed? In this thread ytou have been quoted as saying not to adjust them if you're stable. I personally took this to also mean as long as you aren't having to use excessive VTT voltages. Could you clarify whether you have seen GTL adjustments reduce VTT requirements?

    I've seen this myself on a Q8200, where 1.38 VTT was needed for 3.4GHz, until adjusting CPU ref two steps higher @ 1.2VTT. This allowed for stability at 1.28VTT.
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  6. #66
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    Default Re: Q9550 @ 500FSB On EP45-UD3P...

    I did some searching read this thread. last post was in febuary of 2009 so some what updated.


    High PLL and vtt is now ok for 45mn?

    I still say the rule of them is lower = better. and if you can adjust GTL either become stable or to lower other voltages with out losing stability then do so.

    Here is the pic from the link so you dont have to register to the site just to see it like i did. this was taking from a asus manual. I could not find mine to verify.
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    Default Re: Q9550 @ 500FSB On EP45-UD3P...

    Lsdmeasap and Acebmxer thank you both for posting these documents and showing that opinions vary without bashing..

    I respect you both and thank Acebmxer for that interesting link you attached and after reading all the posts in it see another point is brought up that should at least be mentioned here and it's about the overclocking software included with these boards..(I included the link in this post to OCXTREME forums ACEBMXER posted at the bottom)

    Here's something that's very true from many of the postings in this forum that seem odd..

    When using ET6 and we mostly all do to some extent after trying an overclock and seeing a baseline as to what the software sets for voltages they are considered HIGH now are we to believe if a novice leaves his voltages untouched over a period of time he is damaging his hardware from a program provided by the motherboard manufacturer....

    This to me is confusing in that why include a program if it blatanly can damage..Doesn't that put the manufacturer of the motherboard liable..

    I feel Yes it was the person's choice to click on the ET6 button to overclock yet the manufacturer includes it with the board for that intended purpose...seems a little misleading..

    What if they don't visit this or any forums on the topic and feel comfortable that the system will boot and it's stable to them..It doesn't say in the manual to go online to a forum to see if your voltages are high compared to other people running similar systems..It only says running an overclocked system can produce unpredictable results with a possability of hardware issues...something we may be putting more faith in then actually is called for..

    I myself have also noted early in these posts that ET6 under CPU shows my voltage as 1.408 and under ET6 VOLTAGES are showing 1.44375 a significant variance..

    Which is correct???

    How do we know the board doesn't do this on other settings?? (Please check my pics on page one of this thread to see) I believe the software is a guidline and not meant to be 100% accurate cause all power sources have minor fluctuation..

    (I myself used ET6 to set baseline voltages and worked backwards through stability testing to find the lowest voltages my system would be stable with. I never adjusted MCH refs as I stuck with what proved me a stable system..Would I like to use less voltage who wouldn't??(so I said lets see what happens.. just to clarify a point after all this ridicule on my opinion I tried Psycho's point of adjusting MCH voltages and found my system showed it wouldn't pass 5 minutes of OCCT 3.1 at any adjustment with lowering my VTT..)


    The link ACEBMXER provided is: high pll and vtt is now ok for 45nm - OCXtreme.org Forums

    The people in the discussion in this thread discuss contacting INTEL and there response from INTEL as well as voltages which are considered safe and that when using overclocking software and settings left on "AUTO" there voltages are considered outragous..Yet if read fully through most have used MUCH higher VTT voltage than mine given..

    This is a direct response from INTEL which can be varified from the link above to ELDONKO on safe voltages in OCXTREME forums..

    "Thank you for contacting Intel Technical Support.

    I understand that you will like to know what is the maximum voltage that the processor will support.

    We do not support over clocking a processor, as this would make it run outside of its specifications producing unpredictable results or system instabilities, which might not be readily apparent. The life of the processor may also be shortened; therefore, the warranty on the unit would be voided.

    Bear in mind that over clocking the frequency and/or voltage may reduce system stability, cause the processor other system components to fail, reduce system performance and affect system data integrity. Intel(R) has not tested and does not warranty the operation of the processors that are over clocked.

    Further information on over clocking an Intel(R) processor can be found at:

    Processors - Can IntelŽ processors be overclocked?

    Please do not hesitate to contact us again if you need further assistance."


    Another interesting question was asked from FHPCHRIS on the forum

    "I have degraded CPUs also using just core voltage but will fsb term really hurt a cpu?"

    Response from ElDONKO
    "No one really knows for sure fhpchris and no mb manufacturer nor Intel will comment."

    The original debate was on VTT voltage being a killer...and still as LSDMEASAP has said this debate continues..

    Posted from the link of posts by KTE OCXTREME forums a conversation of him with Intel on data sheets presented here..

    "Well, I get the same answers as yesterday in (informal) chatting with them briefly. Only had 25mins with them now. The latest datasheets are final as Intels official standings on this matter and anything they have not approved in there is outside their advisory. They said this data is based on many testings and simulations, not just estimations. The datasheets tolerances were only estimations based on projected simulations when 45nm first came out but now also take into account Intels empirical evidence. I asked to clarify the latter point twice and got the same answer. I asked if any of the voltages can be thrown high with the one most critical being kept low (and what that one was). The reply was again generic - all the voltage tolerances listed in the datasheet limitations are final.In speaking the only hint away from the official word I understood was that at least some silicon (internally) has worked flawlessly above those tolerances but some other hasn't and the unpredictability and inconsistency means they have to officially lower the safe rating. I'm reading between the lines here, Intel is v.strict on what it allows its employees to say.

    Nearly all of my qs were answered as follows: sorry, I really can't say :o"


    I feel that if after reading just from the link provided and hearing some people testing at 1.9 vtt or 1.6 vtt that should show one thing we need more testing before saying we have conclusive proof of anything other than data sheets Intel provides. Following these data sheets are great if your choice is to use them as a reference, but going higher (1.9v according to the second sheet as high as it may sound still shows people HAVE gone that high without cpu failure)
    Last edited by Storm2313; 08-17-2009 at 01:34 AM.
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    Default Re: Q9550 @ 500FSB On EP45-UD3P...

    MCH ref isn't the most useful GTL when it comes to quads. The GTL that would likely yield the best results is CPU ref.

    Having two CPU refs to change, like on some DS4 and X48 chipsets would be the ideal situation, but also the longest as there are many more combinations with three factors to change than there are with just VTT and a single CPU ref.

    Discrepancies between CPU-Z voltage and EZT6 can be explained away because of Vdrop. We all know about Vdroop and how when you load the CPU without LLC it kicks in and load voltage drops. Vdrop is a discrepancy between the voltage set in the BIOS and the voltage a CPU will actually receive. It's worth noting that without taking a multi meter to the board, even CPU-Z isn't the 100% accurate way to measure voltages. In a way, both programs are wrong, but in different ways.

    Just as some overclocking editions of ATI's 4890 enable software over volting, the board itself has a voltage control chip. The BIOS writes different registers to this chip, setting individual voltages per component. It's then up to the circuitry on the board to fulfill the requested voltages. There's variance depending on the actul components used in the VRM circuitry, over all board quality etc. As such, many have reported a slight over volt using a DMM of voltages such as VTT and PLL. To me this is another reason to play it safe. Although software is likely inaccurate, I'd bet my last penny that the VTT your CPU is receivng is more than you've set. As these voltages gewt higher, so does the over volt. Ie at extreme testing levels, over volt may be ~5% at 1.4V but rise to 15% at 1.9V, making things even more risky. You seldom see an extreme overclocker without a DMM hooked up somewhere. Some even mount more convenient measuring points to the board.

    If you read back, there is no where in this post that anyone said it was definite. I myself used "Likely" and "Probably" which isn't the same.

    You've already made up your mind about what I mean, even if that's not the case. Either way, I don't mind adding information to a sensible thread and discussion. I just didn't believe that recommending people not to bother adjusting GTL's was sensible. You may see that as my opinion, but I see it as common sense. Your right to an opinion was not in question at any time. Not by me and not by anyone else. If you are happy, then that's a good thing. I know your opinion and you know mine. Time to move on now, and not resurect this thread for arguing, but for providing information. It's just a shame that 99% of this thread is an utter disgrace (no blame being assigned).
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  9. #69
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    Default Re: Q9550 @ 500FSB On EP45-UD3P...

    Thank you psycho for speaking to me with respect.

    I value the information you gave me and after all the back and forth tried adjusting CPU ref as well as the others with no luck in dropping vtt with any stability. I will try any suggestions you offer if you think I will see a drop that will benefit my current voltages including a stable system of course...(I hate messing with it if it's stable)

    I see you did respond to my point about ET6 and I forgot to mention I have LLC enabled so I don't notice any vdroop when I run OCCT now. I agree with it off vdroop can be quite excessive.. (I should have stated this in my previous post). If the board overvolts and it may I'm not going to analyze it any further..

    I agree with your beliefs no software is completely accurate..but I still find that something is missing in that ET6 is included as a piece of software Gigabyte markets as a benefit to us overclockers if using it is going to hurt your components especially if your a novice..

    Maybe Gigabyte had independant testing done to verify what they could get away with for voltages. What's funny is ASUS's graph goes against INTEL'S sheets also...Something I have to be honest sounds strange..especially when one component supports another to work properly..
    Last edited by Storm2313; 08-17-2009 at 02:30 AM.
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  10. #70
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    Default Re: Q9550 @ 500FSB On EP45-UD3P...

    V long thread^
    I linked the only review I found of my exact mbrd 6 months ago where the reviewer stated the new tech sheets from Gigabyte and Asus were stating higher VTT and Pll voltages were acceptable tho he couldnt guarantee anything.
    Remember he is also using water for the cpu and seems to have a taste for more exotic cooling later in the thread
    This guy is also just benching and most people here do care whether or not their components will or wont last.
    Gigabyte P45 UD3 review - AwardFabrik - Forum
    I never did find these charts that were mentioned and as Ive already stated I use slightly higher than most people try for but not the auto ones.

    Tho I have run auto too.
    This isnt really what this thread started out as tho..
    It was a general inquiry on performance achieved:
    If somone gets a larger performance increase than I can manage, on lower voltages/any voltage..I say well done and see if their settings or something like them will work for me.

    They may have different memory/air temperature or whatever than mine,but just because I cant reproduce their lower settings and remain stable doesnt mean theirs are wrong.

    It would seem common sense that the lowest applied voltages you need for any particular setting(not ref voltages)would be better.

    The argument about whether a high voltage does or doesnt do any harm seems kind of pointless.Why apply it if its not needed for your setup

    I run my memory at 2.22V bios or 2.19V if you like because I have to ,thats a voltage increase of .12V for 20mhz memory speed (70mhz cpu speed).

    Whether its worth it on possible shortened memory life is debatable but I like the nice round 500mhz ref frequency and the 9G/s read bandwidth.

    Since this is a quad core 45nm/ UD3 thread and we have seen people running in and around their 500 fsb with lower than auto term and pll voltages I dont really see the point of adding more voltage for no performance increase.

    If there is a case where someone is running say 520 fsb and above, quad core 775,45nm on air(with testing) and under 1.45 Vcore and they have to use high cpu term and pll to batter the signals thru id be willing to try some higher ones, otherwise why?
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