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Thread: Do I ever learn???




  1. #1
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    Default Do I ever learn???

    First it was the Domino...can we spell leak??? Forget that TV card (lucky only TV card and not video). Then there is the ASUS MB. I've used ASUS for decades but the party is over. I'm not running, I'm screaming back to Gigabyte. Night and day and Gigabyte is the day. I'm not going to run down ASUS, but I want to build up Gigabyte.

    In a way a blessing in disguise. For years I was an Athlon XP 3200+ type person and loved AMD. Well they're back. For the price of a Q9550, I can get a new MB (have to, the NIC is dead) AND a processor.

    So esteemed members, I'm looking at the Gigabyte GA-MA790X-UD4P. Why? It'll do DDR2 and I don't have the funds for a pure AM3 with DDR3. This board is AM2, AM2+ and AM3 and the features fondly remind me of my GA-P45-UD3P.

    Given that the price and performance is for MY purposes close enough between the Q9550 and either the Phenom II x4 955 BE or the Phenom II x4 945, is there any advantage to the 955 aside from an unlocked multiplier and an extra 200MHz speed?

    My needs are a chip that will do a solid 3.6GHz and nothing more. I'm not going crazy OC'ing again. Just want to set and forget. I have my flight sim application and that is all that uses any horsepower. The Q6600 was nice and nice and HOT and it has gone back to the church I built the computer for awhile ago tuned completely stock.

    Am I on the right track, given my needs? Comments, suggestions and no stones please.

    Thanks in advance for any thoughts on this.


  2. #2
    MadMax2911's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do I ever learn???

    Hi OldGeek I have always been an intel man even when AMD was king.
    My reasons were that I thought Intel was a good solid company and will just put out good solid processors. Not to mention the Intel boards that are being made (have heard a lot of good things LOL), now.

    But you are asking about AMD so heres what I found on another page of this forum. Its a link to a test between Intel and AMD. It also gives a conclusion at the end. here we go-->> Overclock3D.Net :: Review :: AMD vs Intel - The Gaming Sweetspot :: Introduction
    I currently have two intel boards running now and am finding the sweet spot on one is not that easy. I am learning a lot about the lingo ie bus speeds and FSB speeds. I have had quite a few blue screens too LOL. But those blue screens were my fault and prolly due to settings. I have a C2quad doing 2.422 GHz so far and its a 2.3 GHz cpu. The multiplier is only allowing a 7 and a 6 setting, but its for the best if my machine runs into next four years. I am only doing a mild OC on this PC, but I hope to do better on my EP45-DS3R. We will see if the DS3R will do any better.. In the conclusion it gives the recomendations to us it says Intel's core I7 shines for the overclockers up to 4Ghz with the best CPU and stability is good too. Alas the Phenom II is not so good at OCing, and not as stabile when OCed. I would go by deciding what you are going to do with the machine and then decide from there what suits you best. Will you do any Media encoding based work as this is where the intel rig shines. Got to go now more later..
    Max out
    BUILD #2 GA-EP45-DS3R [Rev1.0] BIOS Flashed F11e, CPU=INTEL Core2 Quad Q8200 Yorkfield-4M LGA 775 with Mugen2 cooler RAM= Mushkin 996599 link 2 x 2GB, Hard drive=WD 6400AAKS, DVD=HP dvd1160i OS=Win 7 SP1 64 bit Video=BFG 8800GTS OC edition CASE=Thermaltake Tsunami Dream P.S.=Antec TP3-650

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Do I ever learn???

    AMD's definitely a valid option if you don't want to spend the large amount needed for an i5/i7 setup.

    I'd definitely recommend the Black Edition CPU. Phenom II's tend not to have as much OC head room as C2D/C2Q, so having an unlocked multiplier will be a useful tool. That said, either of those should get you to 3.6GHz, with more tweaking of the Hyper Transport needed on the 945 ofc.

    It's actually getting tough to recommend anyone buy a socket 775 system now. Having three seperate socket types on the market isn't doing Intel any favours. Sure, MHz for MHz in many applications the C2Q is the faster CPU, but it isn't night and day. Only when you get into the realms of the Core i7 do you really see that an AMD chip with a significant frequency advantage simply gets over shadowed.

    I say go for it. That board you linked to seems solid and as long as there's been no architectural compromise to get DDR2 and DDR3 both working on the same board then it seems like a goer.
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Do I ever learn???

    Psycho and Madmax--

    The "old" as in "OldGeek" is there for a reason. My first processor was an IBM 370/145, not exactly something for the desktop, let alone a house. Then I got into PC's.

    First was a TRS-80 with a Zilog Z-80 processor and 16K of memory. Then came the game machine/home learning machine...the Atari's. Mostly 6502's if I remember except for the 520ST which had a Motorola 68000. Add an Apple IIc for grins (running 1MB of memory thanks to a little company in Texas). Then the "real" machines. First was a Northgate with a 80386-20MHz and on and on.

    Finally started building my own machines 20 odd years ago. No real choice at the beginning. Save the for the Cyrix, it was all Intel until this tiny company came alone...AMD. Software compatible and CHEAP...as in inexpensive compared to what became the Cadillac...or as we know them...Intel. Like many, I had a family to raise and feed and shelter and had to remind myself that they were more important than the latest CPU. I really thought that my Athlon XP 3200+ OC'd was as good as it got.

    I'm not a gamer but my passion is flight simulation. Now it is the last two releases by Microsoft...Flight Simulator: Century of Flight..aka FS9 or FS2004 and the latest Flight Simulator, Flight Simulator X aka FSX. My goal is to have enough resources...cpu, memory, video to turn all the knobs...actually sliders...all the way up and get the MAXIMUM sim experience. This is so big a deal that I fly with a virtual airline and have over 800 real time hours of flight time.

    Take that and my age...how many here would be my grandchildren's age..if I had any? Anyway, I'm to the point that since Microsoft fired the entire Flight Simulator product development staff in the last round of "cost cutting BS"(gosh I hate their management ), this is very likely the last machine I'll need to put my name on.

    First Intel. The I7 and I5 are great processors in every way except one...price (applies to their MBs as well). The Phenom II x4 945 thru 965 BE are significantly less expensive as are their motherboards (word is that the AM3 MB will be around for awhile) The board I mentioned is a multi-way AM2, AM2+ and AM3. Question is can I turn the knobs up? Well I proved that the power of my former Q6600 OC'd to 3.6GHz said that I could but no room to spare. But the Q6600 is a classic chip now and I can get a more (not the) state of the art design. The 955 and the Q9550 are nearly twins except the Q9550, last I looked, still costs more than the Phenom and MB I mentioned above together. It sounds like anything from the Phenom II x4 945 on up will give me the ability to turn up those knobs. I don't game...WoW doesn't count does it? (blame that on my daughter who is still playing WoW after all these years).

    Also mentioned was that when I bought a GA-P45-UD3P to go along with my Q6600, the match was made in heaven. Felt the MB provided (wait for it...wait for it....Synergy!) I was very impressed from every angle on Gigabyte's design. So my Asus MB has just died (NIC went out...guess no more NIC at night?...ok bad pun), and I'm at a crossroads. Brand new MB, brand new CPU all for the price and performance of the Q9550, let alone a low grade I5 or I7 (all three sans MB). My needs are to be able to run Flight Simulator, a word processor, spreadsheet and a browser. Sounds like a Phenom II x4 945 OC'd to 3.6GHz would fit that bill just fine. Perhaps, just perhaps I can fiddle with the numbers and get the 955 BE... If I can pull it off someday soon, I'll get another Sapphire 4830 for Crossfire (which I tried with a friends card...awesome flight simulator) and I can stretch out on the beach in Hawaii with a MaiTai, extension cord and an Internet connection and fly off into the sunset.

    So am I Old and Crazy? Or is this a fairly rational conclusion?


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Do I ever learn???

    Does the Asus mobo work, other than the NIC?
    If yes, the least expensive option is to stay with what you've got and add a NIC card, or possibly switch to w wireless usb or pci setup.
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Do I ever learn???

    SOunds logical to me. I only suggested the Black Edition as it is much much easier to tweak. You'd just have to dial in the Multi to get the frequency you like then add voltage to suit.

    There would be no real benefit going for it compared to the 945 in terms of performance. At 3.6GHz they will be exactly the same, down to the decimal place as far as performance goes.

    Good plan on the second 4830 too. They'll be nice and budget friendly.

    Are you considering selling your current CPU to help fund this project? If so, eBay should fetch a pretty decent price for it. It's your ultra high end socket 775 stuff that's suffered in devaluation, ie 9770, extreme edition mobo's etc. Good solid mainstream stuff is still wanted by many.

    If you were happy with the amount of detail you copuld have on FSX etc with your Q6600 then you'll be able to have the same plus a bit more with a Phenom II. As you know, it's an eclectic mix of GPU power and CPU power that's needed to make it "Fly" (another bad joke...). For instance I struggle enabling more than modest air traffic on this dual core rig, even with two 4850's. My cousin can virtually max it out with his 4GHz Q9650. Your planned CPU will fall somewhere in between, toward the higher end though.

    WoW will also be grateful for the CPU power. It's very CPU limited. My frame rates in that game currently aren't a world apart form ones achieved on my old X2 3800+ with a 7900GTX. Good thing is that it's scalable. It takes basically any machine to run but a bit of a monster (still) to have everything, including draw distance and dynamic shadows up full.

    Nothing wrong with being old. Also a little bit of craziness is a prerequisite for not letting life get too far on top of you.
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Do I ever learn???

    profJim, Psycho:

    Yeah, I know about a NIC card...thought I had one laying around but I'm throwing stuff out so I can move someday. I'm REALLY down on the ASUS compared to the Gigabyte. The Q6600 is for my friend...a pastor...for a computer I just finished building for his church. I put the Q6600 on a GA-P45-UD3P. It is a perfect match for the Q6600. Its use will likely be very graphic intensive and maybe some video production too. He will be well served. (I've written about this in other posts and in case you are wondering...well probably not...I held off delivery pending Windows 7...for him the Professional edition).

    The P5Q Turbo with the broken NIC is just IMO a stupid board...didn't know they could be stupid huh? It has gold...for my money cheap fake parts of heat sinks that sit on top of heat sinks for show? or so it would appear..at least that's my take. Also they cheapened out to 6 screws to hold the board rather than the usual 9. Can we say flimsy? It just isn't the same ASUS that I grew up with. Hate their new colors as well. Like that should matter?

    Sorry, just was blown away with both the GA-P45-UD3P and GA-P45-UD3R (that I ruined when I dropped the cpu into the socket and bent 20+ pins..ever try to unbend a teeny pin? My eyes or hands weren't up to the task).

    Once nice thing is I have the knobs nearly maxed now on FSim using my OLD E6420 Conroe. 2.13GHz OC'd to 3.2GHz. That chip amazed me and it was less than 1.3V to get 'er done. This is the chip that was on my ASUS.

    Am convinced the AMD is a logical way to go. AM3 will be around should I be stupid enough to spend more money later while Intel already has at least 2 sockets since the 775. Also the Gigabyte GA-MA790X-UD4P uses DDR2 of which I've got 4G and don't see any benefit in going to DDR3 at this point. Add the Phenom II x4 945 and I should be set. Once the clock is set...hopefully 3.6GHz...hands off and do some flying.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Do I ever learn???

    Sounds like AMD is the way to go, good luck with your new setup.
    Just think, you and I have forgotten more than most forum "youngsters" know.
    Ya, we get too soon old and too late smart.
    Q9650 @ 4.10GHz [9x456MHz]
    P35-DS4 [rev: 2.0] ~ Bios: F14
    4x2GB OCZ Reaper PC2-8500 1094MHz @5-5-5-15
    MSI N460GTX Hawk Talon Attack (1GB) video card <---- SLI ---->
    Seasonic SS-660XP2 80 Plus Platinum psu (660w)
    WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data)
    Samsung 840 Pro 256GB SSD (boot)
    SLI @ 16/4 works when running HyperSLI
    Cooler Master 120XL Seidon push/pull AIO cpu water cooling
    Cooler Master HAF XB computer case (RC-902XB-KKN1)
    Asus VH242H 24" monitor [1920x1080]
    MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) video card
    Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium
    HT|Omega Claro plus+ sound card
    CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD UPS
    E6300 (R0) @ 3.504GHz [8x438MHz] ~~ P35-DS3L [rev: 1.0] ~ Bios: F9 ~~ 4x2GB Kingston HyperX T1 PC2-8500, 876MHz @4-4-4-10
    Seasonic X650 80+ gold psu (650w) ~~ Xigmatek Balder HDT 1283 cpu cooler ~~ Cooler Master CM 690 case (RC-690-KKN1-GP)
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    HT|Omega Striker 7.1 sound card ~~ Asus VH242H monitor [1920x1080] ~~ Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Do I ever learn???

    profJim

    and the other saying that means more now than ever "it's a shame youth is wasted on the young." Others: pay no attention to this old guy. Having been in the computer weeds since the MITS Altair and the Exidy Sorcerer, have seen nearly all things PC. IBM engineers actually worked with our advanced math class in jr. high to build a profoundly crude computer with real "flip-flops" and a rotary phone dial for input. Only OLD folk know of what I speak. Sometimes I think that was cooler than sliced bread.

    Update: I have bought the MB, GA-MA790X-UD4. Ran out of retirement check to get the CPU, but am saving my pennies, literally, to get the Phenom II x4 955 BE. My understanding is at this instant, it is their #2 processor, sweet. Nothing like starting to overclock at 3.2GHz when you only have to go to 3.6GHz. And the unlocked multiplier will let me play.

    Peace all and thanks for the comments.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Do I ever learn??? - Appears not!!!

    CAUTION: Whining about to commence.....

    I'm putting together my beautiful new GA-MA790X-UD4P system and my DAMN MUSHKIN ASCENT memory sticks don't fit LSDmeasap gave me some great advice to consider Mushkin sticks (he did not say the ASCENTs, that was my doing) and they were crackin' on the GA-EP45-UD3P board. But on that board you put the sticks in non-adjacent slots...the slots are farther apart too...but Gigabyte put the slots so close on the GA-MA790X-UD4P such one might not be able to slide a piece of paper between them and worse you are instructed to use adjacent slots for dual channel. To confirm Mushkin said something to the effect: Yeah that kinda sucks.

    BEWARE: Mushkin and Gigabyte are getting coal in their stockings for Christmas

    And my pastor friend who is getting that GA-EP45-UD3P board is getting my ASCENTS. Pays to have friends in high places


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