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Thread: Video card ! Help




  1. #21
    kick's Avatar
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    Default Re: Video card ! Help

    just installed a gainward 460 (gs) 1gb this comes at 700mhz core and 900mhz memory
    The Gainward GS GLH(goes like hell) comes clocked at 800mhz gpu/1000mhz memory.
    The difference as far as I can see is badging and maybe gpu binning.
    So I went for the gs version to save the $20-$30 and decided to change that it would overclock the same.
    It seems to.
    In all normal use (games) it stays cool and quiet at 800/1000
    For 850 gpu I need near 100% fan speed set and at that point it gets v noisy.
    From what Ive read the 460 is something similar to your card in performance ..just no dx11 on yours !.Performance is supposed to be between ati 5830 and 5850 or better than 5850 in some cases at hi clockspeed.
    the 465 seems to be a pos,hi power consumption/heat and actually worse performance.
    470 and above have the fry an egg on it power consumption and heat but they do have a lot more performance ,trouble is for that price you could maybe get 2 sli 460 768 mb cards.
    My board is a single pcie one also and Im happy with the gainward gs so far 200 euro all in.
    I considered the gigabyte one with 2 fans on it (oooh) but I knew gainward/palit were making cards factory clocked at 800/1000 and I got discounts/ free delivery etc on the gainward.
    You should be able to get a 460 1gb for around $200 delivered.
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    Goes like hell speeds are plenty for me.
    Card fan speed above 60% u can start to hear it ,once it hits 80% it gets noisy.Then again when my cpu fan goes over 80% I can hear that too.
    But it doesnt really go above 60% fan speed in normal use at 800gpu/1000 mem.

    Heres a full power/max heat test.
    Last edited by kick; 08-19-2010 at 07:51 PM.
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    Asrock p67 Extreme6.............. Gigabyte EP-45 UD3 ...................... Gigabyte 73 PVM S2
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  2. #22
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    Default Re: Video card ! Help

    @psycho yh metro2033 in dx11 is a card killer even at low res,i found theres not much effect in bad company2 at all,same in avp2 with tesselation on,hardly any difference in frame rates,dirt2 plays well with dx11 too and stalker cop
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  3. #23
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    Default Re: Video card ! Help

    Hello Kick Haven't talked to you in a while.

    The Gainward card is a good one too. GLH speeds like you say, should be plenty to make the card way faster than a 5850 and snapping at the heels of the 5870.

    @Wazza: Yep, Metro 2033 is a nightmare all round really. VERY intense and IMO it doesn't even look that good considering how troublesome it is to get good FPS at max detail.

    I wasn't trying to make the Radeon cards sound rubbish or anything, they're not. In fact in most DX11 games and all DX10/DX9 ones they're as good as a Fermi if not better when you consider the power draw.

    All I wanted to highlight with that review was that their only real weak point is tessellation, which ATI will be fixing with the 6000 series. The 6000's will basically just be a refresh of the 5000 series but with beefed up tessellation support maybe from adding specialist polymorph engines or more of them (not sure what the ATI tessellation sections are called). As it stands, the GTX 460 has three times the tesselation grunt of a 5850, which is a big difference.

    Don't let that put anyone off buying an ATI card, as to be honest there isn't much of a demand for intense DX11 features yet, and in games like AvP where tessellation load is much lower, ATI cards cope just fine.

    Saw your Youtube videos and your PC seems to cope fine with everything.

    Kick, does your Gainward card have heatsinks on the VRM's (on the front of the card, near the PCIe power connector. It looks like a similar cooler to the one Plait uses and from what I read they removed the VRM sinks from the retail versions. I say this because VRM temps are the reason why I had to lower my OC from 900MHz core to just 860MHz. The VRM's were getting so hot that the back of the card would have burnt skin if I touched it more than briefly. I've set up a silent 92mm fanblowing directly at both the VRM sinks and at the back of the PCB. It improved things imensely and lowered GPU temps too.

    At 860MHz I'm getting a max in games of 65c, but in furmark (with Xtreme burning mode OFF) it hits 89c (thermal limit for the G104/G100 is 105c). This is with a GPU voltage of 1.024V using MSI Afterburner (great program).

    If temps bother you then Zalman are releasing a VF3000 for Fermi cards this month... it may actually be out now: ::: Zalman, leading the world of Quiet Computing Solutions :::. It's about the only compatable cooler atm (that doesn't need modding that is). I feel it'd be better than the stock Gigabyte cooler I have because disappointingly, the base of my stock cooler is only aluminium, not copper and there are only two heat pipes.

    EDIT: I can see now, the Gainward does have decent VRM sinks, which is good.

    Last edited by Psycho101; 08-19-2010 at 10:32 PM.
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  4. #24
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    Default Re: Video card ! Help

    they are supposed to hit the market in november with the 6000 series cards,no idea what spec apart from staying with 40nm process
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  5. #25
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    Default Re: Video card ! Help

    If I do nab a GTX460. Ill probably just nab the GLH edition. Getting lazy lately! rather not have to run Rivatuner or any other application in the foreground to get my OC.

    As far as upgrading. Do you guys feel going from a GTX285 OC 1GB card to a GTX460 1GB card is a suffient enough increase in preformance to justify a purchase? Or do you feel I should just hold out a bit longer to see what else is released a bit later this year?

    Right now I mainly play BC2.

    I play with AFx16 and CSAAx16 with all detail on HIGH, DX10, and hardly ever drop below 55-60FPS. Like you pointed out, I do occasionally drop to 45FPS during intense scenes, but thats it.

    Also in 3Dmark6 I pull a 17,800 score. In Vantage for GPU, Im over 12k ( default benchmark ).
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  6. #26
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    Default Re: Video card ! Help

    As I mentioned the gtx 285 is a nice piece of kit
    Even now there arent that many games that need dx 11.
    I was upgrading from a 9600 gt so i have like twice the performance at 4 times the price .
    Whether you would notice it on the games u play at 1600x1050 I dont know.I sure do.
    Heres anands review on some 460's with some gtx 200 comparisons.
    They also mention the max gpu voltage for 460's in there somewhere.
    ASUS, EVGA, Zotac GeForce GTX 460 Cards Overclocked and Reviewed - AnandTech :: Your Source for Hardware Analysis and News

    Then there is the palit review on this site for overclocked gtx glh 460 with voltage adjust to beat the gtx 470
    Palit GeForce GTX 460 Sonic Platinum 1GB Overclocked w/ Voltage Adjustment Palit GTX 460 Sonic Platinum Overclocked w/ Voltage Adjustment :: TweakTown USA Edition

    Ive only had 4 days with my gainward gs (not gs-glh)
    same as if I had a palit sonic (not sonic-platignum)

    If you are going to buy the gainward 460 1gb like you originally mentioned,I wouldnt bother with the glh edition.
    I think its the same card with a couple of different letters on it.
    It took me like 2 min once I had installed the expertool utility that came with the card to clock it to 800/1000.

    I think it looks like the maximum gpu speed at standard v is around 850 mhz
    The gainward is .987v standard gpu V

    You are going to use the utility that came with the card anyway right so.

    gs might reach 830 at standard v, gs-glh might reach 840? but if as you say youre not goin to overclock much why not save the $30 .Nobodys gonna check the letters on the plastic card cover

    The one difference might be going to overvolt the gpu,perhaps the glh chips are binned a little tighter.
    MSI afterburner does support voltage control on the cards and ill probably test it out , but Ive no intention of having the card fan running at 100% all the time its too noisy.

    Ill just go for I think 850mhz ..memory speed Im not sure. Ill see how it goes.
    Anyway right now with lots of burning and game testing the gainward gs is cheaper than the gs glh ,kinda like I expected.
    The components are exactly the same . mass production isnt going to allow real picky binning.
    Its limits away from standard specs might be lower dunno yet.

    The vrm heatsinks as mentioned above.. Im not sure if they are on mine or not ,i mean im not worried enough to go pull the card out and check.
    The gigabyte mbrd I have doesnt have all the little coolers and pipes either for components.
    Im not even sure how efficient the vrm coolers are.The cards that dont have em it would seem they left them off for cheapness or did they just find the cooling was no better with them on .
    Theres something about an area heatsink thats held on to a lot of little chips with a spongy looking thermal transfer material that feels like it could provide hotspots.

    Ill check my card next time i pull it out.
    Right now I wont worry about it,
    The gpu heatsink is copper ,I could see that but im not worried enough to pull that off and apply arctic 5 ( Ive got an item under warranty again :) )
    Last edited by kick; 08-21-2010 at 06:46 AM.
    Current Systems:

    Asrock p67 Extreme6.............. Gigabyte EP-45 UD3 ...................... Gigabyte 73 PVM S2
    Intel i5 2500k 4.8ghz................ Intel Q8400 3.8ghz......................... Intel D820 2.8ghz
    Zalman 10x cooler.................... Coolermaster V8............................ HP cooler
    8GB Gskill ripjaw ddr3.............. 4GB Gskill PI ddr2.......................... 4GB samsung ddr2
    60GB ssd/500GB HDD .............. WD 1TB hdd.................................... Seagate 160GB hdd
    GTX 460 1GB x2 SLI ................. Msi 9600GT 512MB(died) ........... Onboard gx
    Win7 64 ,750w psu(ocz)............ Win7 64 ,520w psu,seasonic...... Win XP pro ,400w psu

    HEC 6A34 case . ....................... Jeantec R2 case............................ Packard Bell case

    hoping to upgrade to http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/habicase.shtml
    http://www.flixya.com/video/140325/Animal-launching

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Video card ! Help

    if i were you i would wait a few months,if ati are releasing the 6000 series you can probably expect prices to drop
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  8. #28
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    Default Re: Video card ! Help

    Personally I'd hang on to the card a while longer to be totally honest.

    Upgrading from a GTX 285 will be more like adding extra features than seeing a huge performance increase. The performance increase will be there, and in some games will be significant.

    Coming from 4850 Crossfire I've sacrificed max FPS in some games but have definitely gotten a smoother experience all round. I'd basically shelved Crysis and Warhead because a peak of 75 FPS and a low of 16 was just too jerky to be playable (All settings Very High in game with a modded config to turn off SSAO, lower shadow map res etc and 0xAA). On my 460 I can play this same config at a min of 28 FPS and a max of around 62. It's just a hell of a lot smoother, AND I can add up to 4xAA for zero performance loss.

    I recently came into a small sum of money from sueing a recent employer (violating redundancy notice periods set) and so it was me treating myself after all the stress and pressure it had caused. If like me, money wasn't a problem, go ahead and grab a single GTX 460 now and use your 285 for PhysX (if you have a nother PCIE that's a physical 16x with at least 4 lanes.) That'd be the sewwtest Physx setup this side of using SLI Fermi and another Fermi for PhysX. With more games using it (Batman, Mafia II) you could have fun tinkering.

    Kick, the difference in heat generated by a motherboard VRM set and a GPU VRM set is night and day. This is the third card I've had now where VRM temps are the only thing that are holding back me over clocking the card further. I have no doubt my card is stable at 900 core with 1.083V. However the card cuts out because the VRM's reach over 120c. That's too close to the melting point of solder to not be concerned. Even at stock with Furmark running the back of the PCB where the VRM's are is too hot to touch.

    If a card doesn't have VRM heatsinks then be careful. If they get too hot they'll shut down the card, and they can actually get that hot that they'll either dismount themselves from the board or cause burning/scorching. No OEM will honor a warranty with scorching in that area unless they identify faults in the card that made the equipment itself pump too much juice through them. And because in this event the card owner will have caused it by excessive frequency (don't even need to touch the voltage) it'll be an RMA denied letter.

    See the controversy and scorn levied at Palit for not including VRM sinks on retail models after the press samples all had them:

    Palit GeForce GTX 460 Sonic could have issues !

    In there defence they claimed that in a 45c chaimber the VRM's at stock never got past 80c anyway..... Another lie? http://666kb.com/i/bkycaafr91bnd0yws.png
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  9. #29
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    Default Re: Video card ! Help

    Both of you brought up good points. Its not like my system is hurting at the moment or there is a game I "cannot" play that I would like.

    So Ill hold off and hopefully see prices drop a month or two from now. Or maybe a totally new set of cards that blows away what we see now, for basically the same price.

    Thanks again for the replies. You all assisted greatly with my decision!
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  10. #30
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    Default Re: Video card ! Help

    your board isnt sli ,correct?
    I would probably still be on gtx 285 ,if i had one or 260 or 275 :)

    The gtx 460 card vrm heatsink thing, Mine doesnt have them: confirmed.
    Am I worried,not really.Why.

    1. the normal bios that came with the card allows for the max factory overclock 800/1000 and still stays cool/quiet in game tests (1680x1050).
    2.Other overclocks like 900/1100 are possible but the card airflow design vents at least half the hot air out the sides and out the back,back into the case.
    3.vrm heatsinks ,If there was a constant supply of cool air blowing over them well great.
    The design we have tho is fan downdraft over the card .then some of that hot air goes out a half obscured pci slot.
    4. the rest of the "hot air" goes back into the case. The physics of a on card vrm heatsink getting hot air blown on to it and the heatsink itself providing a barrier to fast airflow?
    I dont know.

    Id like to get an airflow path for my pc as it is.
    Its cramped in there ,depth is about the same as a full atx mbrd..
    A gx card pumping 50%+ of its heat output back into the case isnt good, but should be solvable with airflow.#

    vrm on card . and vrm heatsinks on card... if ya really need them go buy them . if the card doesnt have them ,suck it up.
    Current Systems:

    Asrock p67 Extreme6.............. Gigabyte EP-45 UD3 ...................... Gigabyte 73 PVM S2
    Intel i5 2500k 4.8ghz................ Intel Q8400 3.8ghz......................... Intel D820 2.8ghz
    Zalman 10x cooler.................... Coolermaster V8............................ HP cooler
    8GB Gskill ripjaw ddr3.............. 4GB Gskill PI ddr2.......................... 4GB samsung ddr2
    60GB ssd/500GB HDD .............. WD 1TB hdd.................................... Seagate 160GB hdd
    GTX 460 1GB x2 SLI ................. Msi 9600GT 512MB(died) ........... Onboard gx
    Win7 64 ,750w psu(ocz)............ Win7 64 ,520w psu,seasonic...... Win XP pro ,400w psu

    HEC 6A34 case . ....................... Jeantec R2 case............................ Packard Bell case

    hoping to upgrade to http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/habicase.shtml
    http://www.flixya.com/video/140325/Animal-launching

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