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Thread: Video card ! Help




  1. #31
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    Default Re: Video card ! Help

    Air flow, direction, hot or cold is not relevant. VRMs without heatsinks will get hotter than ones without.

    As for a way of blowing cool air over them.. that's what the card fan is for. The air being blown about is considerably cooler that the GPU core and still has plenty of capacity to bring down VRM temps too. The sinks aren't going to provide any barrier to air flow. The air will find a way out and won't raise the temps of the card. If anything, the constant hot spots without sinks are causing the card to run hotter and with more fan speed.

    Touch the back of your card after running furmark for 10 minutes. No way it's goiong to be bearable to touch over the VRM's. The simple addition of decent stick on sinks costing maybe 10$ will significantly lower both the VRM and PCB temps.

    Also note that from several sources, the GLH version DOES have them. This could mean that at stock 675 or GS 700 core speeds they're not crucial, but then why are they included at GLH clocks? It's for a reason.

    No VRM sinks on a $200+ card stinks IMO. Gainward and Palit shoud be shot for making a stupid decision to save ~5$ and 30 seconds labor needed to fit them.

    And BTW, an OC of 900 would not be possible stable on your card because it would need around the maximum of 1.083V to the core, and at that voltage and frequency, your VRM's will have fallen off/de soldered themselves due to the heat.
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  2. #32
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    Default Re: Video card ! Help

    if you attach heatsinks to the vrm's it can only drop the temps due to more surface area to dissipate the heat
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  3. #33
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    Default Re: Video card ! Help


    Yeh i think we all know the heatsink theory .
    I wouldnt run my cpu without its 100 times the surface area,or whatever it is, cooler.

    I knew about this review sample /retail version vrm thing before I bought the card.
    The "controversy" started like a month ago.

    Ive seen no evidence that any retail versions of the palit sonic ,or palit sonic platinum gtx 460 1gb come with vrm heatsinks.
    The only retail versions Ive seen pictured, have none.
    The same is true for gainward gs and gs glh gtx460 1gb.
    Ive seen complaints posted about "my gainward gs glh has no vrm heatsinks,woe is me"
    Are there any retail gtx 460's that have vrm heatsinks? the nvidia generic one doesnt have,course that isnt overclocked.
    What about sparkle,evga ,msi etc?

    I think the main problem is that the company/companies sent out engineering samples with a heatsink on.If they hadnt well all we would have heard is.
    "wow these cards run so cool ,they dont even need vrm heatsinks"
    For "finding the o/c limit" they might be required but stable o/c on graphics cards seem to vary a lot.
    My old 9600gt seemed to be good at 710mhz gpu 1020mhz ddr3 mem under heavytesting.
    When it came to actual gaming tho it needed to be clocked down to 690 and 990 approx.
    original clocks were 650 and 900.

    The companies must have tested the cards and decided they werent needed and so they could save a $ or 2 per card. Im sure that would add up to a lot over a production run.
    Also they wouldnt release something that was likely to fail at the factory overclock and even higher.
    Saving a $ per card wouldnt be economic if they got swamped with card returns.

    What it seems to be is people feeling "ripped off" .
    Yeh its the companies own mistake and doesnt help their image but doesnt seem to make much practical difference.
    GeForce GTX 460 review (roundup)

    Yes I had read the above review before I bought my card and consider sonic and gainward to be just rebadging/recolouring of the same products.

    Statement Palit regarding GTX 460 Sonic Platinum

    Soo what about this guy : http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/34...nt/index2.html

    If palit only made one platinum card :) with vrm heatsinks on and sent it to guru3d,did this guy put on his own heatsink?.Was he doing open case testing ?.Are the glh components binned tighter?

    Like I said above the glh components may or may not be better binned but I felt reasonably confident that the gs would provide the same performance as the gs-glh and so it does.
    extreme clocking could be different ,perhaps the memory is a different batch,or gpu but it doesnt appear to be heatsinks,or lack of :0.

    The bios changes seem to be just a fan profile change.I think mine came with it preinstalled . The fan speed doesnt move above 50% until gpu temp exceeds 70*C
    We cant measure the vrm temps. I got tired of measuring my mch heatsink temp with "the finger method" and installed a sensor .
    I doubt ill get a heatsink or 12 mini heatsinks for the gainward or some kind of sensor.Palit seem to have measured the temps in testing,how is that done for 12 chips?

    I couldnt get 850 on the standard voltage ,Im now running 850@ 1.03v and the temperatures seem no worse on a full "furry".

    What Im more worried about right now is interior heat build up (case interior).
    My mch and sys temp increase a lot with full gx heat testing and since im running my "cooler" pc overclock (1960 fsb) im putting it down to gx card generated heat ,perhaps the psu is generating more heat also but there is nowhere for its hot air to go but out.

    In normal running/gaming it doesnt matter but i will have to site a "suck fan" somewhere for peace of mind.
    Last edited by kick; 08-22-2010 at 08:30 PM.
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  4. #34
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    Default Re: Video card ! Help

    funny enough my card doesnt have any vrm heatsinks,hottest ive seen card get it is 68c,+ there cheap to buy anyway and can only help with things
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  5. #35
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    Default Re: Video card ! Help

    Plait have been shown to be little liars. Independent tests show that their results are different from those of anyone elses independent tests :



    This is a Palit GS card running a 700MHz core with the usual factory adjusted voltage and as you can see the rear of the VRM's is running 96.7c. This will also mean that the actual VRM's will be running a touch hotter perhaps ~100c. Using MSI Afterburner to raise Vcore and frequency will only make them boil more.

    Kick, you say that:
    I couldnt get 850 on the standard voltage ,Im now running 850@ 1.03v and the temperatures seem no worse on a full "furry"
    OK, your GPU temps are still fine, but that has nothing to do with VRM's at all. My GPU Temps are fine at 900 core until the VRM's cut off the card because they get too warm (and mine are fully sinked). Assuming independent temp tests in that picture are right, you're adding 150MHz core frequency and then you're upping the VCore by 24+mv from stock. Doesn't seem much but it is, and adds a good 15-20W more power draw, 15-20W more for the VRM's to cope with.


    I have seen the article you posted from Guru3D Kick, in fact I posted almost the same one myself but without vital info missing. Palit GeForce GTX 460 Sonic could have issues !

    The specific bit missing from what you posted (I had posted the FULL version):

    Palit: Please be confidence with our serious testing process, which you don’t need to worry about any “damage” possibility.

    “Quality” always is our priority. Thank you!
    Guru3DAnd since quality and reliable reviews are our priority we posted the following follow-up questions:

    Guru3D: Okay, follow-up questions ..

    Why then do we see huge complaints about noise levels and heat issues from end users ?
    Why do you send vanilla samples to the press ?
    Why do the samples send to press DO have VRM heatsinks and the customer versions not ?
    Guys, whenever I post a review I expect to test the retail sample. Clearly the press samples differ from the retail samples, and that effects my objectivity and this websites reputation. This is a HUGE problem and is utterly shameful activity from Palits side.

    I want to know what Palit is going to do for the end-users that received a different (cheaper) end-product. Because what happens here is unacceptable......

    We have yet to receive a reply....

    As for the difference in GPU's at the GS and SGS-GLH range, I'd bet my last penny they're exactly the same GPU's just with a different default voltage. As per usual you are getting a product for a premium that you could clock yourself after buying the standard edition.

    Yield has been so low on fermi chips that currently the only binning processes going on are "that's a 480, That's a 470, that's a 465" and in the GF104 camp "That one works, that one's broken, That one works, That one's broken......"


    Edit: The following have confirmed VRM sinks:
    Gigabyte 1024 and 768 models
    All Evga "Rear Exhaust Models"
    Sparkle: Yes, visible behind the two PCIE connectors (located on front of card infront of VRM section)
    Zotac: Yes
    MSI OC edition: No Only oc to ~700 core, but still no excuse
    Axle GeForce GTX 460 768: Yes, again hidden behind PCIE Power connectors
    KFA2 GeForce GTX 460 1024MB EX: Yes, full copper and screwed down (not pushpins)
    Last edited by Psycho101; 08-22-2010 at 09:22 PM.
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  6. #36
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    Default Re: Video card ! Help

    heh yeh overclocking 101 more voltage =more power =more heat.

    I saw that thermal image pic on some other thread ,then again we already know were going to get high temps on a heat test .Id like to see the pic with the voltage regulator heatsinks fitted to compare.

    gs-glh gpu core v is .987.Mine is .987 also
    Its good up to 830mhz approx .
    Some other overclocked 460 cards use 1.00,1.01 etc (factory set.
    1.03 was just a v needed to get 850 stable.
    actually I set it at 1.02 but the closest it goes to is 1.025

    Trying heaven benchmark uningine on dx11.
    800mhz /1900mhz mem(.987v) gives a score of 1030 standard 1680x1050 settings
    850mhz/1900mhz mem(1.025v)=1091
    900mhz/2000mhz mem might give 1150?

    Settled on 825mhz /1999mhz mem stock voltage .987v score 1067,for now anyway !

    I wonder what settings this guy used i couldnt find them in the article http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/34...ent/index.html
    I wouldnt be too happy about running 1.08+v thru my card with or without voltage regulator heatsinks.Thats like the maximum msi afterburner can apply ,for me anyway.

    The gigabyte 768 mb 460 overclock i linked the tester did find the card powered down to half speed at 1.06+v from overheating
    Last edited by kick; 08-23-2010 at 03:28 AM.
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  7. #37
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    Default Re: Video card ! Help

    The point of that picture isn't to demonstrate that a card gets hot under Furmark. It's there to illustrate that Palit are utter liars. that card was running the NON Xtreme Burn mode in a 45c chaimber using tyhe original fan profile that was said to "Not be a problem".

    Palit The temperature on the VRM (MOSFET and other components) are not over 80 degree under 45 degree chamber.
    Either Palit are stupid and can't run a scientific experiment to save their lives, or they never even did the test and pulled a figure out of their ass. They were off by over 16c.

    Would heat sinks in the right place help? Of course they would. Doesn't particularly matter by how much, even if it's a measly 10c that's still more headroom before your card decides to reboot your system. It's the only thing stopping me from running over 900 Core and my VRM's have sinks.
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  8. #38
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    Default Re: Video card ! Help

    Ok so I checked the original review before the voltage tweaks.

    Palit GeForce GTX 460 1GB Sonic Platinum Video Card Introduction :: TweakTown USA Edition

    In the photos u can see the voltage heatsink.
    The second in all the world !,unless the reviewer at guru3d sent him his one when he was finished with it.

    So Im assuming the 2nd article with volt tweaks and 925/1100 is with the same heatsink equpped card( the rare 2nd one in all the world).

    My own one ill probably end up around 850/1050 with 1.012 v as a happy compromise.
    That or not use msi afterburner at all and go 825/1000 using the utility that came with the card.

    Im not sure what your prob is tho psycho.you have the sinked vrms?
    If thats the heat source u should be good for your 900+?
    Current Systems:

    Asrock p67 Extreme6.............. Gigabyte EP-45 UD3 ...................... Gigabyte 73 PVM S2
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    60GB ssd/500GB HDD .............. WD 1TB hdd.................................... Seagate 160GB hdd
    GTX 460 1GB x2 SLI ................. Msi 9600GT 512MB(died) ........... Onboard gx
    Win7 64 ,750w psu(ocz)............ Win7 64 ,520w psu,seasonic...... Win XP pro ,400w psu

    HEC 6A34 case . ....................... Jeantec R2 case............................ Packard Bell case

    hoping to upgrade to http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/habicase.shtml
    http://www.flixya.com/video/140325/Animal-launching

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Video card ! Help

    What do you mean "Rare second one in all the world"? Palit sent ALL their "official" reviewers cards with heatsinks. Any reviews you see without VRM sinks on Gainward or Palit cards are from cards aquired by the reviewer through retail channels, not sent by Gainward/Palit. That's 50% of the whole point. Palit bull ****ted official reviewers and then took the piss out of people who bought the card at retail by skanking them of a single 3-4$ (less) component that can cut temps dramatically.

    If the VRM sinks were "not needed" then think about it... why would they need to release an adjusted fan profile?... Answer: They wouldn't have needed to.

    No problem. My card has sinks. I'm not talking about peak OC and I'm not talking about my card. I'm talking about cards that have no sinks and are OC'd by over 25%. For less than $8 you can grab a set of sinks and fit them withut even removing one screw from that cooler. Adding air flow is pretty useless without sinking them first, and no way should anyone run a card that far over stock without sorting the cooling out. 8$ and about 2 minutes. They can be removed just as easily by getting the card to temperature, gently pulling the sinks off and cleaning the VRM's with a Q-Tip.

    To clarify, as it seems you have had trouble with a few details:

    ALL review cards Officially supplied by Palit/Gainward had VRM sinks
    NO actual retail products did
    People were left with cards that were noisy as hell because the heat from the VRM's was heating up the rest of the card.
    Palit released a BIOS updating the fan profile. Not something you do if VRM sinks (or lack of them) "Make no difference".
    Palit lied about "Vrm temp is 80c in a 45c chamber", being out by at least 16c

    Kick, this thread or my comments aren't about you, your card or your OC. Just a general discussion about the brand of card the OP was considering. Get over it.
    Last edited by Psycho101; 08-23-2010 at 07:01 AM.
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  10. #40
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    Default Re: Video card ! Help

    get a grip .. dont go psycho
    My comments arent about u either.

    you need to recognise sarcasm when u see it .
    My second in all the world comment was in reference to the comment that was sent to guru3d about there being only one engineering sample made and sent to them for review.
    I have a sneaking suspicion there may have been more than one.
    That could of course be some asian/ english translation problem
    You are in england yeh?

    Ive had no trouble with details psych.. take it easy.
    If your happy with your gx card ,Im happy with mine and take no offense.
    The hysteria about vrm heatsinks is just that.
    Current Systems:

    Asrock p67 Extreme6.............. Gigabyte EP-45 UD3 ...................... Gigabyte 73 PVM S2
    Intel i5 2500k 4.8ghz................ Intel Q8400 3.8ghz......................... Intel D820 2.8ghz
    Zalman 10x cooler.................... Coolermaster V8............................ HP cooler
    8GB Gskill ripjaw ddr3.............. 4GB Gskill PI ddr2.......................... 4GB samsung ddr2
    60GB ssd/500GB HDD .............. WD 1TB hdd.................................... Seagate 160GB hdd
    GTX 460 1GB x2 SLI ................. Msi 9600GT 512MB(died) ........... Onboard gx
    Win7 64 ,750w psu(ocz)............ Win7 64 ,520w psu,seasonic...... Win XP pro ,400w psu

    HEC 6A34 case . ....................... Jeantec R2 case............................ Packard Bell case

    hoping to upgrade to http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/habicase.shtml
    http://www.flixya.com/video/140325/Animal-launching

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